Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Commander_Alph]

Me when I first heard about the fiasco: "Nintendo can be real jerks sometimes"

Me when I heard that Nintendo was actually sponsoring the event and asked TBH to not use Slippi but they didn't listen: "What were those guys thinking!?"

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I don't approve of Nintendo's decision but I also have to wonder what TBH thought was going to happen.

About that statement, yeah no one will believe a single thing about that as people of Twitter usually do, 1. being a complete ****head and say they write that without any sincerity, 2. Always blindly blame them and always sided with the player because deflecting a baseless argument directed toward a big company is bad as suppose and 3. "tl;dr we didn't care about our fans" type of comment.

 

[XorahnGaia]

Now that I think about it... I know it's big news and all, but what does Nintendo C&D'ing some actually decent netcode mean for roster speculation and discussion?

Nothing, because they weren't after the mod itself but the usage of emulators and ISOs.

People really need to just accept that Nintendo is DMCA-trigger happy all the time and not just when they fan product just so happen to coincide with something they working on themselves.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Leave it to Nintendo to be more deathly afraid of losing 0 sales of a game that's been out of print for well over a decade than people risking severe lung damage and/or death at an event they put money towards

Brand integrity is not the same as wanting sales.
The reason they protect their IPs is because they have a very specific image they try to uphold, and when they don't have control over it, they cannot do it (maybe they fail on their own occasionally, but at least that is on their terms).

If they had chosen not to do a C&D on an event they were sponsoring (ya know, that thing Smash fans have been asking them to do more of), then they would have been condoning a mod, which would have showed others they could rip off Nintendo's IPs as long as they did it well.

There really wasn't another move Nintendo could have made, in this scenario.

 

[7NATOR]

This is Speculation right here, and it's my Ultimate Prediction. It might seem Crazy, but if it actually pays off, Just know someone out there predicted the Impossible

Smash Bros and Bayonetta 3 will Collaborate with each other in the Form of Shadow the Hedgehog coming to Both Games.

Bayonetta involves Time Travel heavily, so Shadow fits Very Well since Chaos Control is centered around it, (Maybe not Time Travel specfically unless we talking 06, but Time in general yes)

Sega made Shadow Playable in the 2017 game of Sonic Forces. Sega has been pushing Shadow as a Character Much more than the Early 2010's. Bayonetta was announced in 2017, and Platinum said they revealed the game too early, and It's very likely Development either Just Started or didn't even start yet, or the game was just Greenlit

The Same guy who made the Yakuza series (and also creative officer at Sega) said New Gameplay styles for Sonic were coming. Platinum tweeted a Picture with Sonic Shirt. Sonic Twitter account and Mike Pollock (eggman) tweeted "3" as a hint towards something. Sonic Adventure 3, Bayonetta 3, Sonic Rush 3, All three, two of those, maybe something else, it's something related to 3

Iizuka, Head of Sonic's Team, favorite character is Shadow

What I think will happen is that Bayonetta 3 might actually be coming in 2021, which FP2 is going into. Nintendo might have pushed for Shadow as a Character to perhaps Cross Promote. Shadow is a Requested character and is the 2nd Most Popular character in the Sonic Franchise, so even without Promotion he has Very Good Merits. That's a Win Win, as Shadow appeal to Casual Audience, Hardcore Smash Audience, Sonic Audience, and Nintendo, Platinum, and Sega's Interests. Also potentially Sakurai since he might like the more Edgier Characters (even though there's Much more to Shadow than Edginess)

Shadow in Bayontta 3 will push more units, or at least get more people interested in the game. Shadow in Smash would give Nintendo more money from DLC Purchases, and more attention towards Bayonetta 3. Sega will get Shadow in a game that's 95% likely to be good, and could be the steeping Stone towards Shadow Sequel, and then a Whole Franchise based around Shadow. I, and many will get their most Wanted Character in Smash, and Alsp My Prophecy of Shadow coming to Smash Ultimate will Come true

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While I sympathize with anyone who's had their games or events shut down by Nintendo, at this point given their history you pretty much have to expect it. They're a very conservative company with a certain mindset about the protecting their IP's and until that changes I think anyone would be wise to keep their Nintendo related projects either under the radar or so widely disseminated that a C&D realistically won't remove anything permanently. With competitive Smash I think you can have a public, potentially profitable event under Nintendo's thumb or you can have a smaller one with a lesser chance of profit but with the freedom do set it up without interference.

With the current climate, I don't think you can have both.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Damn...

This is Speculation right here, and it's my Ultimate Prediction. It might seem Crazy, but if it actually pays off, Just know someone out there predicted the Impossible

Smash Bros and Bayonetta 3 will Collaborate with each other in the Form of Shadow the Hedgehog coming to Both Games.

Bayonetta involves Time Travel heavily, so Shadow fits Very Well since Chaos Control is centered around it, (Maybe not Time Travel specfically unless we talking 06, but Time in general yes)

Sega made Shadow Playable in the 2017 game of Sonic Forces. Sega has been pushing Shadow as a Character Much more than the Early 2010's. Bayonetta was announced in 2017, and Platinum said they revealed the game too early, and It's very likely Development either Just Started or didn't even start yet, or the game was just Greenlit

The Same guy who made the Yakuza series (and also creative officer at Sega) said New Gameplay styles for Sonic were coming. Platinum tweeted a Picture with Sonic Shirt. Sonic Twitter account and Mike Pollock (eggman) tweeted "3" as a hint towards something. Sonic Adventure 3, Bayonetta 3, Sonic Rush 3, All three, two of those, maybe something else, it's something related to 3

Iizuka, Head of Sonic's Team, favorite character is Shadow

What I think will happen is that Bayonetta 3 might actually be coming in 2021, which FP2 is going into. Nintendo might have pushed for Shadow as a Character to perhaps Cross Promote. Shadow is a Requested character and is the 2nd Most Popular character in the Sonic Franchise, so even without Promotion he has Very Good Merits. That's a Win Win, as Shadow appeal to Casual Audience, Hardcore Smash Audience, Sonic Audience, and Nintendo, Platinum, and Sega's Interests. Also potentially Sakurai since he might like the more Edgier Characters (even though there's Much more to Shadow than Edginess)

Shadow in Bayontta 3 will push more units, or at least get more people interested in the game. Shadow in Smash would give Nintendo more money from DLC Purchases, and more attention towards Bayonetta 3. Sega will get Shadow in a game that's 95% likely to be good, and could be the steeping Stone towards Shadow Sequel, and then a Whole Franchise based around Shadow. I, and many will get their most Wanted Character in Smash, and Alsp My Prophecy of Shadow coming to Smash Ultimate will Come true

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Continuing the Nintendo business decisions discussion from last night

 

[SKX31]

Nothing, because they weren't after the mod itself but the usage of emulators and ISOs.

People really need to just accept that Nintendo is DMCA-trigger happy all the time and not just when they fan product just so happen to coincide with something they working on themselves.

Still though, the mod was one of the reasons according to Nintendo's official statement: "...illegally copied versions of the game in conjunction with a mod called 'Slippi'..." Other Nintendo-sponsored tournaments like GENESIS are required by Nintendo to run vanilla Melee with no mods.

We do know one (official at least) reason Nintendo's anti-mod. Reggie was interviewed by ESPN 2 years back:

ESPN: Because controllers were made at different periods of time in different factories, controllers that were made in the early 2000s tend to be the best. Pro players are going crazy trying to hunt these controllers down, spending a lot of money. And as controllers break, that's one less in the supply chain. Why is Nintendo, under any circumstance, even as minor as UCF, against software modification to its games at tournament?

[I'm skipping ahead, there's a whole paragraph where Reggie talks about the supply chain]

So, that's our hope, but specifically why no modifications? We believe that fundamentally enabling modification starts putting the play at risk of any type of unfair advantage. The tournament space is like UCF, and tournaments that are not partnered with Nintendo do enable UCF as standard. If good tournament organizers can ensure no foul play with UCF, would that be something Nintendo could be open to? Look, I'd never say never. But certainly, again, our mentality is, we want there to be an even playing field. We want there to be consistency. Those are the things that we work with the Evos of the world, and the other tournament organizers. I get asked constantly, what's Nintendo's approach to the esports community. And our approach is we want to enable consistent standards. We want to enable an approach to the competition that's fair, that's balanced, that enables the players to showcase their skills. And therefore, that's why we work with the Evos. That's why we put on our own tournaments. That's our guiding principle. And that's why, to your question about the controller mod, that's why today we're not supportive of that. Even Splatoon 2 players opt to use the Switch pro controller wirelessly, as, for whatever reason, it has less lag. There are some weird little things.

The thing is, that stance is very inflexible. Here's the deal with UCF, or Universal Controller Fix: One of vanilla Melee's faults is the simple process of dashing back. In order to dash back without having to go through the turn-around frames, you have to be frame-perfect with your controller. If you mis-time the dashback one has to wait for the turn around animation to complete. It's no issue in casual play due to the much more lax nature, no. But tournaments generally have thousands of dollars on the line, so a missed dash-back can (and has) swayed entire matches and sets and determine who gets the $.

It's one reason why a lot of Melee pros hunt controllers down - they generally prefer controllers with malfunctioning stickboxes so they can dash back more consistently. No really:

That's what UCF targets - amongst other changes UCF leghtened the dash-back window to 2 frames and made it slightly easier to do advanced techs with all kinds of controllers, and help remove the unintentional unfair advantage. We're talking those minor changes.

And there's a issue I have with Nintendo's heavily anti-mod stance: It doesn't account for cases where the vanilla game itself has jank and even controller-dependent jank. Sure, there are patches nowadays, but Nintendo IMHO would be wise to at least make a more concerted effort to understand why the mods popular within the playerbases are being made in the first place. Ditto with the online infrastructure, an area Nintendo's not been great at for the longest time.

Now that I think about it... I know it's big news and all, but what does Nintendo C&D'ing some actually decent netcode mean for roster speculation and discussion?

Well, if Nintendo weren't so hard on modding and fangames consistently - combined with the legal recourse strictly limited to buying old consoles and games from Amazon and the occasional (potentially time-limited) re-release...

... I'd be a tad more optimistic about characters like Lloyd and Sora taking cues from their Smash Flash 2 movesets, to name two examples.

 

[osby]

This is Speculation right here, and it's my Ultimate Prediction. It might seem Crazy, but if it actually pays off, Just know someone out there predicted the Impossible

Smash Bros and Bayonetta 3 will Collaborate with each other in the Form of Shadow the Hedgehog coming to Both Games.

Bayonetta involves Time Travel heavily, so Shadow fits Very Well since Chaos Control is centered around it, (Maybe not Time Travel specfically unless we talking 06, but Time in general yes)

Sega made Shadow Playable in the 2017 game of Sonic Forces. Sega has been pushing Shadow as a Character Much more than the Early 2010's. Bayonetta was announced in 2017, and Platinum said they revealed the game too early, and It's very likely Development either Just Started or didn't even start yet, or the game was just Greenlit

The Same guy who made the Yakuza series (and also creative officer at Sega) said New Gameplay styles for Sonic were coming. Platinum tweeted a Picture with Sonic Shirt. Sonic Twitter account and Mike Pollock (eggman) tweeted "3" as a hint towards something. Sonic Adventure 3, Bayonetta 3, Sonic Rush 3, All three, two of those, maybe something else, it's something related to 3

Iizuka, Head of Sonic's Team, favorite character is Shadow

What I think will happen is that Bayonetta 3 might actually be coming in 2021, which FP2 is going into. Nintendo might have pushed for Shadow as a Character to perhaps Cross Promote. Shadow is a Requested character and is the 2nd Most Popular character in the Sonic Franchise, so even without Promotion he has Very Good Merits. That's a Win Win, as Shadow appeal to Casual Audience, Hardcore Smash Audience, Sonic Audience, and Nintendo, Platinum, and Sega's Interests. Also potentially Sakurai since he might like the more Edgier Characters (even though there's Much more to Shadow than Edginess)

Shadow in Bayontta 3 will push more units, or at least get more people interested in the game. Shadow in Smash would give Nintendo more money from DLC Purchases, and more attention towards Bayonetta 3. Sega will get Shadow in a game that's 95% likely to be good, and could be the steeping Stone towards Shadow Sequel, and then a Whole Franchise based around Shadow. I, and many will get their most Wanted Character in Smash, and Alsp My Prophecy of Shadow coming to Smash Ultimate will Come true

This theory makes absolutely no sense whatsoever but do I still believe it 100% because I'll get both Shadow in Smash AND actual, real Bayonetta 3?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Melee might legit be one of the few fighting games where not only you need a broken controler to play properly in competitive, but you also need a controller that's broken in the right way.

It's very disheartening to hear about the TBH situation, even if it's somewhat expected. Mostly because we'll probably have to shout into the void for years before Nintendo ever implements a proper online - and I don't mean just for Smash. In a situation like this, your best option would be to accept Slippi as an exception, like UCF. That's what I think, at least.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I mean, it isn't really surprising that this happened.

It's definitely an overreaction on Nintendo's part, regardless. I stopped following the professional competitive sceneSmash years ago, particularly that of Melee, but j get the backlash qnd criticism.

Whether or not any when all of this has any real effect on the compay remains to be seen. It's far from the first time it's had or started a situation like this one.

 

[mariofan48]

Both Ubisoft and Koei Tecmo have amazing relationships with Nintendo, so I think a Smash rep for both of those companies is very likely.

Koei Tecmo was heavily involved with developing Fire Emblem: Three Houses, and they published Hyrule Warriors and Age of Calamity in Japan as well.

Ubisoft is the only third party company outside of Japan that has been given the chance to use Nintendo's beloved Mario IP in it's own xCom like tactical game, which they rarely if ever give other companies full control over. They also allowed Starfox to appear in the Switch version of Starlink, and you can tell that both companies have a huge amount of respect for each other.

I'm going to be hella surprised if Fighter Pass 2 ends and there's still no playable Ubi or Koei Tecmo rep.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

All I'm going to say is that it was pretty stupid to hold that tornament that uses a mod on one of thier games when Nintendo themselves are sponsoring said tournament

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The problem with Nintendo is they’re SO DMCA trigger happy that it actually makes their image seem tone-deaf more than anything else.

Fan-game released for free made with love and not at all going to interfere with Nintendo’s IP? Cancelled.

Mod to give a safe way to play the tournament online since Nintendo refuses to do good online OR rerelease Melee? Cancelled.

It would be different had Nintendo made an effort to provide their own way to do this tournament. But even then, with all the Fangames that have gotten notice from other companies and have been welcomed with open arms, like Sonic Mania/Sonic 1+2 mobile and Mega Man X Street Fighter it just makes Nintendo look bad whether they’re trying to or not.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

To be honest, yeah, I'm not gonna defend Nintendo on this one, but using an emulator for Melee knowing what they're like should've bern all they needed to know that tbis wss inevitable anyway.

They would have been better off if they just stuck with Ultimate.

 

[Eldrake]

I had the most bizarre Smash reveal dream yet.

The fighter? A F-Zero vehicle piloted by Captain Falcon. I think it was simply called "F-Zero Machine". It was so wide yet short. It also came with alts for Black Shadow, Pico and someone who is still cloudy in my memory (I think it was Dr. Stewart though).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Brand integrity is not the same as wanting sales.
The reason they protect their IPs is because they have a very specific image they try to uphold, and when they don't have control over it, they cannot do it (maybe they fail on their own occasionally, but at least that is on their terms).

If they had chosen not to do a C&D on an event they were sponsoring (ya know, that thing Smash fans have been asking them to do more of), then they would have been condoning a mod, which would have showed others they could rip off Nintendo's IPs as long as they did it well.

There really wasn't another move Nintendo could have made, in this scenario.

Or Nintendo could just do better than the fans but C&Ds are way easier to throw out than making an effort to compete against bedroom developers.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

To be honest, yeah, I'm not gonna defend Nintendo on this one, but using an emulator for Melee knowing what they're like should've bern all they needed to know that tbis wss inevitable anyway.

They would have been better off if they just stuck with Ultimate.

Pretty sure the reason they did this was in retaliation of Nintendo and their tendency to do this stupid ****. People don’t want to play Ultimate they want to play Melee. Outright cancelling the event because of Nintendo doing this would absolutely make a bigger splash than them saying Melee won’t be here. It’s publicity. And I’m glad someone finally did it.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Pretty sure the reason they did this was in retaliation of Nintendo and their tendency to do this stupid ****. People don’t want to play Ultimate they want to play Melee. Outright cancelling the event because of Nintendo doing this would absolutely make a bigger splash than them saying Melee won’t be here. It’s publicity. And I’m glad someone finally did it.

I figure that the backlash is gonna seriously bite Nintendo in the ass one of these days.

It's gonna take more than this, but if it keeps up it should have some kind of negative impact on the company.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

This is Speculation right here, and it's my Ultimate Prediction. It might seem Crazy, but if it actually pays off, Just know someone out there predicted the Impossible

Smash Bros and Bayonetta 3 will Collaborate with each other in the Form of Shadow the Hedgehog coming to Both Games.

Bayonetta involves Time Travel heavily, so Shadow fits Very Well since Chaos Control is centered around it, (Maybe not Time Travel specfically unless we talking 06, but Time in general yes)

Sega made Shadow Playable in the 2017 game of Sonic Forces. Sega has been pushing Shadow as a Character Much more than the Early 2010's. Bayonetta was announced in 2017, and Platinum said they revealed the game too early, and It's very likely Development either Just Started or didn't even start yet, or the game was just Greenlit

The Same guy who made the Yakuza series (and also creative officer at Sega) said New Gameplay styles for Sonic were coming. Platinum tweeted a Picture with Sonic Shirt. Sonic Twitter account and Mike Pollock (eggman) tweeted "3" as a hint towards something. Sonic Adventure 3, Bayonetta 3, Sonic Rush 3, All three, two of those, maybe something else, it's something related to 3

Iizuka, Head of Sonic's Team, favorite character is Shadow

What I think will happen is that Bayonetta 3 might actually be coming in 2021, which FP2 is going into. Nintendo might have pushed for Shadow as a Character to perhaps Cross Promote. Shadow is a Requested character and is the 2nd Most Popular character in the Sonic Franchise, so even without Promotion he has Very Good Merits. That's a Win Win, as Shadow appeal to Casual Audience, Hardcore Smash Audience, Sonic Audience, and Nintendo, Platinum, and Sega's Interests. Also potentially Sakurai since he might like the more Edgier Characters (even though there's Much more to Shadow than Edginess)

Shadow in Bayontta 3 will push more units, or at least get more people interested in the game. Shadow in Smash would give Nintendo more money from DLC Purchases, and more attention towards Bayonetta 3. Sega will get Shadow in a game that's 95% likely to be good, and could be the steeping Stone towards Shadow Sequel, and then a Whole Franchise based around Shadow. I, and many will get their most Wanted Character in Smash, and Alsp My Prophecy of Shadow coming to Smash Ultimate will Come true

Just.... Why? Like, even if by some miracle Shadow is in Bayonetta 3, why would he be chosen to promote that game? That would be the same thing as Nintendo choosing Dante to promote Shin Megami Tensei 3 HD. If they want to promote Bayonetta 3 that bad they would just go with Jeanne, Balder or Rodin.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Just.... Why? Like, even if by some miracle Shadow is in Bayonetta 3, why would he be chosen to promote that game?

Because 7NATOR really wants Shadow

 

[pupNapoleon]

Or Nintendo could just do better than the fans but C&Ds are way easier to throw out than making an effort to compete against bedroom developers.

Yes, they could (should), but that is irrelevant as far as a response goes to the situation at hand.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I can't say I can stay mad at Nintendo for long over this decision. Really, I just don't care enough about the competitive scene (or Melee) anymore to really be upset about it. I just don't think they had any good reason to do this. Using an emulator for Meleewhile knowing what Nintendo's like was just beggining for a take down, and I'll stand by that, but I also fail to see how it would've had any negative impact on the company to just let the Big House d o their thing.

I've been more upset for them over their other more overly sensitive decisions they've made to "protect" their IPs than this one, personally, so while this one incident doesn't resonate with me personally, I still completely sympathize with the backlash and criticism towards Nintendo.

 

[pupNapoleon]

New question: What type of fighting style is most missing from Smash?

 

[PeridotGX]

If only there was a way to play Melee on Switch legally.

A way of purchasing old games virtually in your console, perhaps?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

New question: What type of fighting style is most missing from Smash?

Smash has covered a lot of ground at this point, so I don't think it's outright missing much in terms of unique fighting styles.

There's some different playstyles I'd like to see, like a ranged-spear fighter or another character who relies in a variety of magic attacks with different effects for different uses, but other than that there's nothing that really comes to mind, and even then some of Ultimate's cast already fits a similar mold. So neither is necessary for the sake of filling a quota nor representing something any other fighters totally lack.

Biggest one I could think of besides those was a terraforming character, and Steve has that covered, now.

Smash has much covered enough by now, in my humble opinion.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

New question: What type of fighting style is most missing from Smash?

There aren't really all that many archetypes left. I can only think of two:

• Stance Change characters unless you count the Pokémon Trainer.
• Summoner characters like JACK-O.

If only there was a way to play Melee on Switch legally.

A way of purchasing old games virtually in your console, perhaps?

Nintendo: "I've got it! A timed exclusive Super Smash Bros. Melee rerelease!"

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Smash has covered a lot of ground at this point, so I don't think it's outright missing much in terms of unique fighting styles.

There's some different playstyles I'd like to see, like a ranged-spear fighter or another character who relies in a variety of magic attacks with different effects for different uses, but other than that there's nothing that really comes to mind, and even then some of Ultimate's cast already fits a similar mold. So neither is necessary for the sake of filling a quota nor representing something any other fighters totally lack.

Biggest one I could think of besides those was a terraforming character, and Steve has that covered, now.

Smash has much covered enough by now, in my humble opinion.

I’d like to see a true dual wielder; Pit/DP don’t count imo as they wield twin daggers, not swords.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’d like to see a true dual wielder; Pit/DP don’t count imo as they wield twin daggers, not swords.

That...That's still dual wielding.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I’d like to see a true dual wielder; Pit/DP don’t count imo as they wield twin daggers, not swords.

That sounds interesting enough. It'd make for some good combo set-ups and heavy-hitting attacks.

Or maybe it'd just be a heavy projectile-user depending on what kind of dual wielder we'd be talking about.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That...That's still dual wielding.

Well you know what I meant, dual sword wielder

also what’s RECCA in your earlier post?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That sounds interesting enough. It'd make for some good combo set-ups and heavy-hitting attacks.

Or maybe it'd just be a heavy projectile-user depending on what kind of dual wielder we'd be talking about.

Knowing her? Yes.

 

[SharkLord]

New question: What type of fighting style is most missing from Smash?

I want a bull%$#@ tower defense styled character who's attacks are placed down before they can be used, including the normals. This makes them convoluted, difficult to use, and hilarious to watch. Think Rosalina with multiple stationary Lumas.

 

[osby]

I’d like to see a true dual wielder; Pit/DP don’t count imo as they wield twin daggers, not swords.

This is some "Joker counts as a swordfighter" level of reaching lmao.

Since when daggers are that long?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I still support Tetra's inclusion above all other newcomers, but I don't see her having a totally unique fighting style so much as a unique moveset.

Pistols, cannons and cutlasses on a small speedy character like Toon Link...Aside from the pirate aesthetics and gun, a lot of that ground has already been covered in some fashion by other characters. Doesn't mean she wouldn't play uniquely.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well you know what I meant, dual sword wielder

also what’s RECCA in your earlier post?

I just did a double check, and it might not actually refer to a character type. Also I spelled it wrong. Rekka is the fighting game term for attacks like Dancing Blade; Press button more times for more hits. Actually, I think Dancing Blade and Double Edge Dance are the epitome of this style attack, so I think I'll just remove it from the list.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

New question: What type of fighting style is most missing from Smash?

Stance character archetype.

We've had different interpretations of it, like Pokemon Trainer's tag-team aspect or Shulk's different Arts, but the traditional aspect of the same character with the very same model having two completely unique movesets (Gen from Street Fighter is a good example of what I'm saying) has never been seen in Smash.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Knowing her? Yes.

What do you mean by that, exactly?

 

[Dinoman96]

Stance character archetype.

We've had different interpretations of it, like Pokemon Trainer's tag-team aspect or Shulk's different Arts, but the traditional aspect of the same character with the very same model having two completely unique movesets (Gen from Street Fighter is a good example of what I'm saying) has never been seen in Smash.

That just seems like a cosmetic thing, though. Like we've had characters like Zelda/Sheik and the PT as you've mentioned that basically do the same thing as stance characters except that, well, they don't keep the model the same.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

RECCA characters, which wouldn't work as well because high-low blocking isn't a thing.

Marth, Roy, Lucina and Chrom all have a rekka move. And for all of them, it's the side special.

Also, you can move the shield while shielding, so high-low blocking is kinda there, just not in the traditional sense.