Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Momotsuki]

Saying Minecraft is a "kid's game" or a "fad" or whatever, that is really underselling its age. It's far from retro, sure, but the kids that got on board early on are adults now, many of whom continue to enjoy the game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Let me propose a question because after pondering it over myself, I feel as though my feelings on this subject have changed. I want to gather some opinions.

Why the hate for a Fortnite or Overwatch character?

Fortnite and Overwatch are both phenomenal examples of successful games from the most recent era in gaming. Smash Bros. is supposed to be a celebration of gaming history. We don't have many characters from the most recent era (2015-2020).

Sure, both games may be hotspots for kids and, dare I say, "normies," but I believe Fortnite and Overwatch should have just as much of a chance as any other gaming franchise. Like Minecraft, they're too huge to ignore, moreso Fortnite than Overwatch but still.

We can block out the idea of these games getting a character into Smash, but if it does happen, it makes way too much sense. They're just being overlooked because of the stigma that surrounds their games like Minecraft before Steve got in.

Overwatch could be due to the Blizzard controversies... but those likely occured after the second Pass lineup was decided, so... I dunno.

Fortnite I have nothing against, but the concept of building your own terraim is already taken by Steve, so... I doubt it'll happen.

 

[Koopaul]

I was trying to compose a list of companies that don't have a fighter in Smash yet plus some of their biggest hits. But this list proved to be more difficult than I thought. The rights and ownership of certain franchises can be a complicated tangle. I didn't know what to classify as what.

I will say this, I consider companies that are owned by larger ones like Taito under Square Enix separately. Bayonetta and Persona are both owned by SEGA but they seem miles apart from each other. While they are under the SEGA umbrella, Bayo and Joker wear Platinum Games and Atlus on their sleeves more than they do SEGA. This is a different case from Bomberman and Hudson. Hudson doesn't even exist anymore and Bomberman completely wears Konami's name.

 

[LucKekkai]

Also, I feel that maybe I have been underestimating Rean's chances. I actually believe he could be a serious contender if Falcom were to get a character in Smash. Trails of Cold Steel was the first Falcom game to break the 1 million barrier. The first game in the Cold Steel saga sold 1,5 million according to this (September 2018):

Falcom’s Trails Series Reaches 3.9 Million, Trails of Cold Steel Hits 1.5 Million In Sales

www.siliconera.com

Then a few weeks ago Falcom reported the Trails series achieved 5 million. The first Cold Steel game has at least sold 1,5 million, obviously more than that since 2018. That's impressive in it's own way and a good sign for Rean.

At the same time I feel Estelle could have the edge when it comes to rep the Trails series. I know it doesn't prove anything but Falcom pushes her as well as sort of the face of the Trails series.

Logo for the 10th anniversary of Trails (at this point Zero no Kiseki, Ao no Kiseki, Cold Steel 1 and Cold Steel 2 already released, games without Estelle as a protagonist):

Logo for the 15th anniversary, with her being clearly in the center of the logo (the anniversary was last year, with Cold Steel III and IV already released at that point):

Rean is indeed a serious contender among potential Falcom reps(if we end up even getting one, that is). Actually, even though Estelle has been in the most mainline Trails games(seven out of the ten that have been made so far), she has played a side role in quite a few of them. Rean, on the other hand, has been the main character in every game he has been in thus far(for a total of five games). So while I think Estelle has a good chance due to other factors, it's easy to see Rean or Adol as having a good chance as well.

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

I was trying to compose a list of companies that don't have a fighter in Smash yet plus some of their biggest hits. But this list proved to be more difficult than I thought. The rights and ownership of certain franchises can be a complicated tangle. I didn't know what to classify as what.

I will say this, I consider companies that are owned by larger ones like Taito under Square Enix separately. Bayonetta and Persona are both owned by SEGA but they seem miles apart from each other. While they are under the SEGA umbrella, Bayo and Joker wear Platinum Games and Atlus on their sleeves more than they do SEGA. This is a different case from Bomberman and Hudson. Hudson doesn't even exist anymore and Bomberman completely wears Konami's name.

Which Companies are not in smash anyway?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Let me propose a question because after pondering it over myself, I feel as though my feelings on this subject have changed. I want to gather some opinions.

Why the hate for a Fortnite or Overwatch character?

Fortnite and Overwatch are both phenomenal examples of successful games from the most recent era in gaming. Smash Bros. is supposed to be a celebration of gaming history. We don't have many characters from the most recent era (2015-2020).

Sure, both games may be hotspots for kids and, dare I say, "normies," but I believe Fortnite and Overwatch should have just as much of a chance as any other gaming franchise. Like Minecraft, they're too huge to ignore, moreso Fortnite than Overwatch but still.

We can block out the idea of these games getting a character into Smash, but if it does happen, it makes way too much sense. They're just being overlooked because of the stigma that surrounds their games like Minecraft before Steve got in.

I personally dislike Fortnite because it has micro-transactions, it's a game that I'm not interested in but is in your face no matter what you do to block it, I'm more of a fan of single player games and it's new. I don't like new very much.

I have played Overwatch and I've had buyers remorse ever since. It's also the reason why I'm hesitant to buy newer games. That is also along with the Micro-transactions and the fact it's not a single player game.

With Smash characters, I like the older ones better because I grew up with them. Newer characters are boring and they look the same from my point of view.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Saying Minecraft is a "kid's game" or a "fad" or whatever, that is really underselling its age. It's far from retro, sure, but the kids that got on board early on are adults now, many of whom continue to enjoy the game.

I don't get this. Just because something is old doesn't mean it isn't primarily targeted towards kids anymore. Super Mario 64 is 24 years old, but its still technically for kids. The fad part I totally get though.

 

[TwiceEXE]

The "you can only have one character that builds things" take is making me chuckle. I guess we can't get any characters that punches or kicks because of Min Min.

 

[SharkLord]

The "you can only have one character that builds things" take is making me chuckle. I guess we can't get any characters that punches or kicks because of Min Min.

To be fair, there aren't many other people who can take punching to another level and vibe check you from a mile away.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Which Companies are not in smash anyway?

It's easier to list the ones in Smash and say "everything not on this list"

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hey guys, what if we got a Disney rep in Smash... but it was THIS?

Featuring the iconic Disney characters, XFLAG partnered with Walt Disney Japan, upcoming mobile action game Star Smash (スタースマッシュ) open pre-registration now.
It will release on 16th Nov.https://t.co/Iui2ObZGVE#スタスマ #ディズニー #stasma #starsmash #Disney #mobilegames pic.twitter.com/Avi6eMemMX

— gamnotch (@gamnotch) October 29, 2020

 

[Guynamednelson]

The "you can only have one character that builds things" take is making me chuckle. I guess we can't get any characters that punches or kicks because of Min Min.

Yeah, don't they know that gathering resources by striking the ground with a pickaxe is also something Steve has that'd make Jonesy redundant?

 

[Wigglerman]

The "you can only have one character that builds things" take is making me chuckle. I guess we can't get any characters that punches or kicks because of Min Min.

No one is really saying you CAN'T have more than one character that 'builds things'. What we're saying is that if there were two characters, in the same pass that had incredibly similar mechanics (As in Steve and also a Fortnite character) it'd be incredibly tone deaf. Steve is creative and interesting in his own ways but I can say for sure I know I wouldn't be hype about a Fortnite character/DQ Builders character or Roblox character since Steve is pretty much the mantle barer for this edition of Smash for 'build em' games (Though Fortnite also has pew pew as a focus but its identity also revolves around the crafting in conjunction).


So sure, if other craft like games got in Smash, it wouldn't be the end of the world or anything. However in the same pass? That's a HARD pass. I want each character in every pass to stand out proper from one another, not steal the limelight from another because their mechanic/gimmick is too similar.

 

[7NATOR]

Yeah, don't they know that gathering resources by striking the ground with a pickaxe is also something Steve has that'd make Jonesy redundant?

I guess on the other side of the Arguement, it makes reworking all the stages for this mechanic more worth it since it wouldn't be just for Steve in this hypotehtical case, But i do agree. It shouldn't count Fortnite completely out, but it is a factor to consider, and there are potentially other shooter characters that could add diverse abilities not seen in the game

 

[RileyXY1]

No one is really saying you CAN'T have more than one character that 'builds things'. What we're saying is that if there were two characters, in the same pass that had incredibly similar mechanics (As in Steve and also a Fortnite character) it'd be incredibly tone deaf. Steve is creative and interesting in his own ways but I can say for sure I know I wouldn't be hype about a Fortnite character/DQ Builders character or Roblox character since Steve is pretty much the mantle barer for this edition of Smash for 'build em' games (Though Fortnite also has pew pew as a focus but its identity also revolves around the crafting in conjunction).


So sure, if other craft like games got in Smash, it wouldn't be the end of the world or anything. However in the same pass? That's a HARD pass. I want each character in every pass to stand out proper from one another, not steal the limelight from another because their mechanic/gimmick is too similar.

Yeah. Even though we had 3 JRPG fighters in the last pass they played nothing alike, as Persona, Dragon Quest, and Fire Emblem have completely different mechanics.

 

[SKX31]

Saying Minecraft is a "kid's game" or a "fad" or whatever, that is really underselling its age. It's far from retro, sure, but the kids that got on board early on are adults now, many of whom continue to enjoy the game.

It was considered that once, and that sticks with some. Hell, there are some that still consider Mario and Zelda just kids' stuff. Or most any video game in general. Especially if it's something a person dislikes.

To be fair, there aren't many other people who can take punching to another level and vibe check you from a mile away.

I think I found one of them:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/jkimwd

 

[Wigglerman]

Yeah. Even though we had 3 JRPG fighters in the last pass they played nothing alike, as Persona, Dragon Quest, and Fire Emblem have completely different mechanics.

Exactly. I'm sure Jonsey (Or whomever they get for Fortnite, if it happens) would obviously play different than Steve. But I think the collective whole of the community is looking for a haymaker of a character. Steve was the one-two jab, even if he isn't everyone's cup of tea. Nintendo needs to hit us with the razzle dazzle. Fortnite I don't think will be it.

 

[RileyXY1]

Exactly. I'm sure Jonsey (Or whomever they get for Fortnite, if it happens) would obviously play different than Steve. But I think the collective whole of the community is looking for a haymaker of a character. Steve was the one-two jab, even if he isn't everyone's cup of tea. Nintendo needs to hit us with the razzle dazzle. Fortnite I don't think will be it.

Fortnite is also too recent and might just be a passing fad. It currently doesn't have the staying power that Minecraft has.

 

[cashregister9]

Exactly. I'm sure Jonsey (Or whomever they get for Fortnite, if it happens) would obviously play different than Steve. But I think the collective whole of the community is looking for a haymaker of a character. Steve was the one-two jab, even if he isn't everyone's cup of tea. Nintendo needs to hit us with the razzle dazzle. Fortnite I don't think will be it.

That state of mind is how the explosion of salt from Byleth came about.

There Is No Hype Quota. And different people find different things hype

 

[SharkLord]

I think I found one of them:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/jkimwd

I dunno. About half of the vibe checking there took the form of a giant axe to the face at close range.

 

[TwiceEXE]

No one is really saying you CAN'T have more than one character that 'builds things'. What we're saying is that if there were two characters, in the same pass that had incredibly similar mechanics (As in Steve and also a Fortnite character) it'd be incredibly tone deaf. Steve is creative and interesting in his own ways but I can say for sure I know I wouldn't be hype about a Fortnite character/DQ Builders character or Roblox character since Steve is pretty much the mantle barer for this edition of Smash for 'build em' games (Though Fortnite also has pew pew as a focus but its identity also revolves around the crafting in conjunction).


So sure, if other craft like games got in Smash, it wouldn't be the end of the world or anything. However in the same pass? That's a HARD pass. I want each character in every pass to stand out proper from one another, not steal the limelight from another because their mechanic/gimmick is too similar.

I have never played Fortnite and even I know that considering it and Minecraft the same kind of 'build em' games is being intentionally reductionist. It's no different than the crowd that complains about anime swordsmen.

If you don't like a character/game that's fine, I don't care. But I feel like the people spouting this argument probably wouldn't keep the same standard when it comes to their most wanted and the similarities they share.

 

[ZelDan]

I'd actually be down with an Overwatch rep/Tracer. I put hundreds of hour into Overwatch and greatly enjoyed it, whereas Fortnite I've never played and have zero attachment to. For the sake of not being hypocritical against Fortnite though, I guess I need to recognize that OW having "staying power" is...not certain as of now similarily to Fortnite. OW1 has kind of fizzled out but I guess we will see what happens with Overwatch 2.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I dunno. About half of the vibe checking there took the form of a giant axe to the face at close range.

Wait, that's not how you're supposed to do it?

 

[Dinoman96]

I feel about Tracer the same way I felt about Steve prior to Banjo's reveal

In this case, I'd much rather have Crash first from Activision-Blizzard.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Hey guys, what if we got a Disney rep in Smash... but it was THIS?

Featuring the iconic Disney characters, XFLAG partnered with Walt Disney Japan, upcoming mobile action game Star Smash (スタースマッシュ) open pre-registration now.
It will release on 16th Nov.https://t.co/Iui2ObZGVE#スタスマ #ディズニー #stasma #starsmash #Disney #mobilegames pic.twitter.com/Avi6eMemMX

— gamnotch (@gamnotch) October 29, 2020

I saw this on Twitter and its the coolest thing I have ever seen

 

[GoodGrief741]

Let me propose a question because after pondering it over myself, I feel as though my feelings on this subject have changed. I want to gather some opinions.

Why the hate for a Fortnite or Overwatch character?

Fortnite and Overwatch are both phenomenal examples of successful games from the most recent era in gaming. Smash Bros. is supposed to be a celebration of gaming history. We don't have many characters from the most recent era (2015-2020).

Sure, both games may be hotspots for kids and, dare I say, "normies," but I believe Fortnite and Overwatch should have just as much of a chance as any other gaming franchise. Like Minecraft, they're too huge to ignore, moreso Fortnite than Overwatch but still.

We can block out the idea of these games getting a character into Smash, but if it does happen, it makes way too much sense. They're just being overlooked because of the stigma that surrounds their games like Minecraft before Steve got in.

I've mentioned it before, but for many people, popularity has to be earned. The more popular something is, the higher the scrutiny it's held to - because, I guess, popular things have the (not unearned) stigma that they appeal to the lowest common denominator.

So if something is highly popular, and isn't proportionally good, people aren't going to like it. People just don't like to see success come effortlessly, whether that be due to pandering, or unoriginal design, or stagnant iteration.

I don't think kids playing it plays a major part in the hate, honestly. Stuff like Mario is aimed at kids and people don't trash it because of it. Conversely, stuff like EA Sports games, Call of Duty, and Assassin's Creed isn't aimed at kids and still gets the same kind of hate. What you will see is different rhetoric about it, because instead of the hatred stemming from a question ("How can so many people be so dumb as to play this crap?"), it stems from the answer to that question ("It's kids, because they have no taste")

So, in the end, it's not simply "popular game bad", but rather the slightly more complex "bad popular game worse".

 

[SKX31]

I'd actually be down with an Overwatch rep/Tracer. I put hundreds of hour into Overwatch and greatly enjoyed it, whereas Fortnite I've never played and have zero attachment to. For the sake of not being hypocritical against Fortnite though, I guess I need to recognize that OW having "staying power" is...not certain as of now similarily to Fortnite. OW1 has kind of fizzled out but I guess we will see what happens with Overwatch 2.

TBH Overwatch still has an active playerbase:

Here are some highlights from Blizzard for the past quarter ending Sep 30, 2020.

30m MAU across Blizzard franchises

Shadowlands launches Nov 23 and WoW MAU is stable YoY

Overwatch still has 10m MAU, 4 years after launch.

Hours played in Hearthstone are up YoY pic.twitter.com/uT4mR0crya

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) October 29, 2020

....Buuuuuuut a lot of that is probably in China / Korea, so yeah, there's a point to be made that it has sort of fizzled out (at least compared to its peak). Blizzard's missteps with Overwatch's competitive didn't really help (although it still is semi-healthy I'd say).

We'll see what they'll do with OW2, I'm personally hoping that they actually take the time to expand on Overwatch a lot. Especially since they implied it was a sequel with the "2" name.

I dunno. About half of the vibe checking there took the form of a giant axe to the face at close range.

The vibe checking was so huge though that that Sonic's currently a mile away.

(Also that was a Distance Demon joke.)

 

[PeridotGX]

Chapter 1 of the AI Dungeon story mode introduces a major character from a series in Smash, but the character themselves isn't in. Any guesses?

 

[pupNapoleon]

That state of mind is how the explosion of salt from Byleth came about.

There Is No Hype Quota. And different people find different things hype

.... well, I think Nintendo was pretty aware of how Byleth would be received.

Sakurai apologizing in advance.
The 40 minute lecture to show us to count by giving us the finger.
"Another Sword Character?" comment.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Chapter 1 of the AI Dungeon story mode introduces a major character from a series in Smash, but the character themselves isn't in. Any guesses?

Got any additional hints?

 

[Wigglerman]

I have never played Fortnite and even I know that considering it and Minecraft the same kind of 'build em' games is being intentionally reductionist. It's no different than the crowd that complains about anime swordsmen.

If you don't like a character/game that's fine, I don't care. But I feel like the people spouting this argument probably wouldn't keep the same standard when it comes to their most wanted and the similarities they share.

Except in the case of the 'anime swordsman' they all DO play too much alike. They either share exact movesets with slight tweaks to things or they're an straight mash of two.

I was indifferent to Byleth. I think, at the very least, Byleth plays completely unique. Same to how I never had much an issue with Robin or Corrin. Though they may be 'anime swordsmen' they play unlike the majority of members from their core franchise. They are unique. As RileyXY1 said, we got a bunch of JRPG characters in pass one but they all play totally different. I'd argue that in the end, despite people's salt or dislike of a particular character themselves, if the character brings new things to the table then that's typically the bigger deal.

I'm not looking to 'reduce' Fortnite. Again, I have no major issue with the game. It just ain't for me. But from how this scene has acted, what I'm getting at is that Fortnite in the same pass as Steve would be a total ****show for 'being similar' due to the build mechanics while also 'robbing' the 'pew pew representation' slot at the same time. shrug In the end, like with Steve (Who I wasn't thrilled over but am glad he's here) would get a shrug from me also but I'd be happy for people who legit wanted them.

 

[cashregister9]

.... well, I think Nintendo was pretty aware of how Byleth would be received.

Sakurai apologizing in advance.
The 40 minute lecture to show us to count by giving us the finger.
"Another Sword Character?" comment.

Yeah That's a Fair Point.

This isn't The POTD but the Nintendo Versus account posted a picture to celebrate Pikmin 3 deluxes release

ピクミン＆アルフが活躍する『ピクミン３ デラックス』本日発売！
不思議な生きもの「ピクミン」たちと一緒に、惑星を探索しましょう。
※スマブラの画面です。#スマブラSP #スマブラ画 #ピクミン３デラックスhttps://t.co/h7JAIXUaWM pic.twitter.com/3Ryb15lFts

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) October 30, 2020

 

[Icedragonadam]

So Sora will be in Smash........

Spoiler

Star Smash that is.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

However in the same pass? That's a HARD pass.

Was that choice of words intentional?

 

[Wigglerman]

Was that choice of words intentional?

Sure was!

 

[TwiceEXE]

Except in the case of the 'anime swordsman' they all DO play too much alike. They either share exact movesets with slight tweaks to things or they're an straight mash of two.

I was indifferent to Byleth. I think, at the very least, Byleth plays completely unique. Same to how I never had much an issue with Robin or Corrin. Though they may be 'anime swordsmen' they play unlike the majority of members from their core franchise. They are unique. As RileyXY1 said, we got a bunch of JRPG characters in pass one but they all play totally different. I'd argue that in the end, despite people's salt or dislike of a particular character themselves, if the character brings new things to the table then that's typically the bigger deal.

I mean, you just stated on your own how every DLC swordfighter has been unique. We got Byleth and Hero in the same pass and they aren't similar at all. I desperately don't want a Fortnite character but it isn't hard to imagine a moveset that is unique from Steve's. It simply sounds like a reach to say Sakurai could never make a character that builds something be different than the character we just got.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hey guys, what if we got a Disney rep in Smash... but it was THIS?

Holy volume Batman!

Anyway, what exactly is this? Looks like Quidditch, but with Disney characters.

 

[Spongeboob]

Hey guys, what if we got a Disney rep in Smash... but it was THIS?

Featuring the iconic Disney characters, XFLAG partnered with Walt Disney Japan, upcoming mobile action game Star Smash (スタースマッシュ) open pre-registration now.
It will release on 16th Nov.https://t.co/Iui2ObZGVE#スタスマ #ディズニー #stasma #starsmash #Disney #mobilegames pic.twitter.com/Avi6eMemMX

— gamnotch (@gamnotch) October 29, 2020

I don't know I haven't played it yet

 

[Shroob]

Except in the case of the 'anime swordsman' they all DO play too much alike. They either share exact movesets with slight tweaks to things or they're an straight mash of two.

I was indifferent to Byleth. I think, at the very least, Byleth plays completely unique. Same to how I never had much an issue with Robin or Corrin. Though they may be 'anime swordsmen' they play unlike the majority of members from their core franchise. They are unique. As RileyXY1 said, we got a bunch of JRPG characters in pass one but they all play totally different. I'd argue that in the end, despite people's salt or dislike of a particular character themselves, if the character brings new things to the table then that's typically the bigger deal.

I'm not looking to 'reduce' Fortnite. Again, I have no major issue with the game. It just ain't for me. But from how this scene has acted, what I'm getting at is that Fortnite in the same pass as Steve would be a total ****show for 'being similar' due to the build mechanics while also 'robbing' the 'pew pew representation' slot at the same time. shrug In the end, like with Steve (Who I wasn't thrilled over but am glad he's here) would get a shrug from me also but I'd be happy for people who legit wanted them.

I mean, **** show for a small, vocal online base sure. We look bigger than we are, but at the end of the day, Ultimate's sold over 20 million copies, and I'd be hard pressed to even find a million Ultimate fans online in a concentrated area.

The casuals would eat that **** up, and we already saw what the casuals did to Twitter when Steve was shown off.


It's the people that 'don't' talk that are arguably the strongest force that this community has.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

So Papagenos is speculating a pattern regarding Mii costumes noting how the Heihachi Mii costume came with Min Min whose a fighting game character and now Travis and Gil who have blue swords similar to Steve's diamond sword.

Assuming there's a pattern, Ryu Hayabusa could come next with Lloyd as a Mii fighter since they both possess katanas.