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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Phoenixio

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Also went through some practice, spirits and classic mode with Steve. Thoughts so far:
-Really interesting 1v1, but struggles in groups. His Classic mode was quite a bit harder than with other new releases due to that.
-People thought blocks would be OP, but they're very short lived overall, and opponents seem to be able to destroy them faster by moving against them (at least it was difficult to do anything against higher level bots). They also have much more limited available spaces on which they can be placed, so there won't be crazy blocking strategies or flying off stage.
-He's susceptible to rushdowns, as he starts with wooden weapons and it takes a few seconds to get the rest started.
-He has some really hard hitting moves... That cart smashes hard, and so does the explosive if well set.

So yeah, very different and unique, I quite like him. And his stage is gorgeous, that's probably the best part of it all!
 
ZelDan

ZelDan

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Holy crap Steve's classic mode is a nightmare. Especially the final round on 9.0 difficulty.

And unsurprisingly Steve is pretty gosh darn hard to use. being low on materials and getting rushed down will probably be the bane of many a Steve/Alex/Zombie/Enderman
 
ZelDan

ZelDan

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Shroob said:
Imagine if someone told you this is what Smash would look like in 2020 back in 2018... yeah I wouldn't buy it either
View attachment 289237
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Wow, they literally just took a model of Steve straight out of Minecraft without doing anything with it and Snake's arm is totally clipping through Steve's model. This is fake as hell.

The stage looks pretty good. The fake leaker put some good effort into that atleast.
 
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Evil Trapezium

Evil Trapezium

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Shroob said:
Imagine if someone told you this is what Smash would look like in 2020 back in 2018... yeah I wouldn't buy it either
View attachment 289237
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I'd believe it. At that point I believed anything. The unrealistic part would be me actually being right to believe it.

N3ON said:
Hopefully next time we can get 5/5, but this isn't terrible for now.

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And look! There's Rayman in the ice!
 
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D

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Shroob said:
Imagine if someone told you this is what Smash would look like in 2020 back in 2018... yeah I wouldn't buy it either
View attachment 289237
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Honestly, looking at that picture now, I know it's legit, but it looks fake lol. The cloud animation for Rathalos looks....well.....animated...and doesn't fit in with the rest. Snake clipping through Steve looks weird and because he's lifting him a bit (at least I think he is since Steve's feet aren't on the ground) it looks like Steve was just photoshopped in. Even the King of Fighters Logo back there; I could see people arguing that it doesnt match the aesthetics of everything else and is obviously fake lol.
 
Eldrake

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Remember when it was announced that there would be a message from Sakurai immediately after the October 1 livestream, that people was worried that it was going to be Sakurai delivering bad news about game development on FP2?

Then it turned out that it was just Sakurai reassuring the viewer that what they saw is actually real and not a figment of their imagination.
 
3BitSaurus

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Two more quick notes.

First, after playing Steve for a few hours, one thing is certain: his moveset here feels LEAGUES above any fanmade one. It's a lot more cohesive than anything I've seen the community come up with - even if the downsides are pretty clear.

Second - I apreciate Sakurai's work and think his team is doing an amazing job... but that said, can someone please explain to me why in the name of **** did they feel the need to buff Ness, of all characters!? :roll:
 
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Guynamednelson

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3BitSaurus said:
Second - I apreciate Sakurai's work and think his team is doing an amazing job... but that said, can someone please explain to me why in the name of **** did they feel the need to buff Ness, of all characters!? :roll:
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Just because a character is annoying doesn't mean all their moves work correctly. That's also why Pikachu and Sonic got some buffs.
 
Guybrush20X6

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Well if we're looking for biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig series, Smash has got three of the six games to get Lego sets, at least outside of Lego Ideas.

Mario, Sonic, Minecraft

That leaves:
Prince of Persia, Spy Hunter (thanks to Midway Arcade pack) and Portal
 
3BitSaurus

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Guynamednelson said:
Just because a character is annoying doesn't mean all their moves work correctly. That's also why Pikachu and Sonic got some buffs.
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I mean, yes, but when you consider they were already good characters, it does feel a tad unnecessary. Especially when we've seen characters get nerfed to hell just because of Online.

That first post was said in half-jest, btw.
 
SKX31

SKX31

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3BitSaurus said:
Two more quick notes.

First, after playing Steve for a few hours, one thing is certain: his moveset here feels LEAGUES above any fanmade one. It's a lot more cohesive than anything I've seen the community come up with - even if the downsides are pretty clear.

Second - I apreciate Sakurai's work and think his team is doing an amazing job... but that said, can someone please explain to me why in the name of **** did they feel the need to buff Ness, of all characters!? :roll:
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It being cohesive, that I agree with. There's some jank (Like TNT -> Down Smashing on top of TNT -> Buffering shield = Explosion but Steve taking no damage). Anvil is straight up nasty and could be absurdly difficult for any linear recovery (then again, Steve has answers to every recovery, I'm not surprised they nerfed the blocks' duration off stage because of that).

My first impression is that Steve will struggle a bit with establishing an advantage because he has to mine constantly, but once he has good materials it's going to be much more difficult for the opponent.

*Quick edit: Steve's likely going to benefit a lot from lag or jank from attacks / grabs being canceled when blocks dissappear. One can do ridicolous stuff like what Alpharad did to a Little Mac off stage.

Guynamednelson said:
Just because a character is annoying doesn't mean all their moves work correctly. That's also why Pikachu and Sonic got some buffs.
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That is a valid point, but they could've also slightly nerfed something that those two didn't need to compensate since those two are already strong. Nerfing Pikachu's Dash Attack for example - yes I'll continue complaining about this, it's stupidly strong and Pikachu's gameplan wouldn't be hurt by it; and nerf Sonic's Spin Charge damage a little in order to encourage a more varied playstyle from a lot of Sonics.

Guybrush20X6 said:
Well if we're looking for biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig series, Smash has got three of the six games to get Lego sets, at least outside of Lego Ideas.

Mario, Sonic, Minecraft

That leaves:
Prince of Persia, Spy Hunter (thanks to Midway Arcade pack) and Portal
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Oh boy, we're witnessing the birth of LEGO Theory.

Although this theory is practically impossible and I have no idea what Spy Hunter is, I would not mind PoP nor Portal at all.
 
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Megadoomer

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I've seen people acting like the involvement of ACE, Yoko Shimomura, Motoi Sakuraba, etc. doing the Minecraft remixes is clearly a sign that a character from whatever series/games they've worked on previously is going to be included further down the line as DLC, but that seems premature. Those composers did plenty of work on the base game, as far as I can tell, so it doesn't really seem to mean anything.

I somehow doubt that the involvement of Mitsuhiro Kitadani or Hiroki Hashimoto, for example, means that we're getting a playable Daemon X Machina character in Fighters Pass 2, or that Yuzo Koshiro covering some Minecraft music is a hint towards a Streets of Rage character being added. The same thing goes for the other composers who are involved in this.
 
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3BitSaurus

3BitSaurus

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SKX31 said:
It being cohesive, that I agree with. There's some jank (Like TNT -> Down Smashing on top of TNT -> Buffering shield = Explosion but Steve taking no damage). Anvil is straight up nasty and could be absurdly difficult for any linear recovery (then again, Steve has answers to every recovery, I'm not surprised they nerfed the blocks' duration off stage because of that).

My first impression is that Steve will struggle a bit with establishing an advantage because he has to mine constantly, but once he has good materials it's going to be much more difficult for the opponent.
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True. At the same time, though, his range remains pretty bad during neutral, and most of his attacks can be read with relative ease and/or leave him open for some time. If an opponent parries you, get ready to become combo food (depending on the matchup).

I think Steve is one of these characters who needs a lot of setups to gain momentum - whether via mining or actual setups. That, along with his poor base stats, will probably make neutral really difficult for him.
 
Professor Pumpkaboo

Professor Pumpkaboo

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Megadoomer said:
I've seen people acting like the involvement of ACE, Yoko Shimomura, Motoi Sakuraba, etc. doing the Minecraft remixes is clearly a sign that a character from whatever series/games they've worked on previously is going to be included further down the line as DLC, but that seems premature. Those composers did plenty of work on the base game, as far as I can tell, so it doesn't really seem to mean anything.

I somehow doubt that the involvement of Mitsuhiro Kitadani or Hiroki Hashimoto, for example, means that we're getting a playable Daemon X Machina character in Fighters Pass 2, or that Yuzo Koshiro covering some Minecraft music is a hint towards a Streets of Rage character being added. The same thing goes for the other composers who are involved in this.
Click to expand...
Unrelated but I want yoko to make my theme music for my life. Everything she touches turns to gold(en violins)
 
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Cutie Gwen

Cutie Gwen

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Guynamednelson said:
Just because a character is annoying doesn't mean all their moves work correctly. That's also why Pikachu and Sonic got some buffs.
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Yes because Ness' Dair and Up Throw were such terribly inconsistent moves that refused to work.


Also I wouldn't be too concerned about Steve's Craftblock cancelling or the TNT Dsmash because those are blatantly glitches that'll get patched pretty soon
 
Guybrush20X6

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SKX31 said:
Oh boy, we're witnessing the birth of LEGO Theory.

Although this theory is practically impossible and I have no idea what Spy Hunter is, I would not mind PoP nor Portal at all.
Click to expand...
I'll own that.

I am Guybrush20X6, Mighty Creator of Lego Theory!
 
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SKX31

SKX31

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Cutie Gwen said:
Yes because Ness' Dair and Up Throw were such terribly inconsistent moves that refused to work.


Also I wouldn't be too concerned about Steve's Craftblock cancelling or the TNT Dsmash because those are blatantly glitches that'll get patched pretty soon
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A decent number of Reddit users speculated that those buffs are mostly directed at the Wi-Fi Warrior / casual crowd. Ness is probably popular but has bad winrate because the stereotypical Wi Fi Ness spams PK Fire and gets punished far too frequently by those who know how to play around that. As such, one possible reason why they're buffing Ness / Sonic is because they might want to "open up" their playstyles a bit (I'm just really worried it'll make Ness and Sonic even more toxic online or even more prevalent in tournaments when they didn't need buffs as much as other characters).

I'm not going to implicitedly trust Reddit users just 'cause, but it makes a lot of sense when Sakurai directly stated in the November 2018 Direct that the dev team would take Elite Smash results into account when balancing. I wouldn't be surprised if the dev team also took normal Quickplay into account - where Wi Fi Nesses and Sonics might have even lower win %.

Characters like Ganondorf and Little Mac would be on the other side of the spectrum: They probably have high win % comparatively in low Quickplay up to low Elite Smash territory because mistakes, bad buffers and lag really benefit DORIYAHs / Super armor Smashes. As such, they've gone relatively untouched since 3.1.

Quick edit: I'm not sure if it's the right approach at all to do this kind of balancing, but there's a valid though behind this. After all, the original intent behind Smash was "party game". And it would be a major mistake to abandon that when a lot of people - a huge chunk of the casual base (which is incidentally the category where most pros started out) - see Smash as that.

Megadoomer said:
I've seen people acting like the involvement of ACE, Yoko Shimomura, Motoi Sakuraba, etc. doing the Minecraft remixes is clearly a sign that a character from whatever series/games they've worked on previously is going to be included further down the line as DLC, but that seems premature. Those composers did plenty of work on the base game, as far as I can tell, so it doesn't really seem to mean anything.

I somehow doubt that the involvement of Mitsuhiro Kitadani or Hiroki Hashimoto, for example, means that we're getting a playable Daemon X Machina character in Fighters Pass 2, or that Yuzo Koshiro covering some Minecraft music is a hint towards a Streets of Rage character being added. The same thing goes for the other composers who are involved in this.
Click to expand...
It's still rather comforting that the musicians are still employed and involved in the DLC. Sure, it might not mean much as far as characters are concerned, but their hard work with the remixes are still paying off IMHO (sure, some tracks got most of the attention, but that's not a dealbreaker for me personally).
 
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