Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cosmic77]

I do think it'd be nice if they added a few more newer characters. From 2010 to 2020, we've only had thirteen characters, and five of them are from FE. Min Min and Byleth are all we have from 2017 to 2020, and those two alone don't feel like an accurate representation of everything the Switch has offered us so far.

 

[Perkilator]

This thought process comes with two specific issues: Rex is already a promotional Mii costume, so it might seem odd to offer him fro purchasing Volume 1 AND as a playable selection in Pass 2, and then Pokémon has had their spirit event, which is notable considering Three Houses did not and received a playable character.

What are our thoughts?

I mean, the former wasn’t even done with any kind of “Vol. 2” in mind. XC2 characters are no guarantee, but I wouldn’t rule out the idea over something done when only Vol. 1 was ever planned at the time (mainly due to XC2 being a victim of timing).

 

[Deleted member]

So, is the reason that Byleth got in over Rex is because of Xenoblade Chronicles 2's timing, and the timing for pre-FP1 and FP1 or is it for another reason?

 

[zumaddy]

I'd rather have Rex and Pyra but I think Lora/Jin are slept on

 

[Idon]

I'd rather have Rex and Pyra but I think Lora/Jin are slept on

How, exactly? One's the protagonist of a game, and the other's a DLC/side-game of the said game.
I think the hierarchy in who they'd choose is quite clear here.

 

[PeridotGX]

So, is the reason that Byleth got in over Rex is because of Xenoblade Chronicles 2's timing, and the timing for pre-FP1 and FP1 or is it for another reason?

Nintendo probably told Sakurai "add a character from a game that releases between Ultimate and the end of the pass" and chose Byleth. Rex just wasn't an option.

 

[Cosmic77]

Byleth was chosen for the exact same reason as Corrin: timing of the DLC lined up with the game's release.

They were specifically looking for a character from a game coming out while the DLC was being made. They had quite a few options, but I guess 3H is what they wanted most.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

One interesting thing to note about Byleth's inclusion: Three Houses was originally slated to be a 2018 game, but was then delayed. I'm not sure if that effected any decision-making on character choices or not, but it would have placed the game to be released before Ultimate if all had gone well.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo probably told Sakurai "add a character from a game that releases between Ultimate and the end of the pass" and chose Byleth. Rex just wasn't an option.

I feel like Byleth would be more of a Nintendo pick than a Sakurai pick. Wasn't Sakurai not a fan of the number of Fire Emblem characters?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like Byleth would be more of a Nintendo pick than Sakurai pick. Wasn't Sakurai not a fan of the number of Fire Emblem characters?

They were all Nintendo picks.

 

[cashregister9]

I'd rather have Rex and Pyra but I think Lora/Jin are slept on

While I do agree I'm currently putting them into the same category as Urshifu/Calyrex.

They are more recent but not every player will experience them and with how DLC and post launch content has been portrayed in ultimate so far it is unsure how that precedent will be carried out as the pass continues

 

[Idon]

I feel like Byleth would be more of a Nintendo pick than Sakurai pick. Wasn't Sakurai not a fan of the number of Fire Emblem characters?

Here's the quote you're looking for:

This clearly doesn't bode very well for the Lyndis legion.

 

[pupNapoleon]

it's a symptom of the Pokemon selection process (and also kinda FE). We only get Pokemon from the latest gen, which means we only talk about Pokemon from the latest gen. Decidueye and Lycanroc? Old news, we now herald Rillaboom and Toxtricity. I only talk about Grovyle because there's a very, very specific line of logic that could lead to it's inclusion.

I bring up frequently that Meowth and Team Rocket should have been included as a trickster character that uses Pokeballs as a capture mechanic.
Or Eevee that can evolve one time per life, with all forms only a slight modification to a move visually/ effect wise.

I would prefer either of these to a continual stream of flavor of the month.

Though I also would have wanted Rillaboom in because... yes... I count 6-7-8 and water-fire-grass. It's like an unfinished cadence in a song, and my brain craves the resolution.

 

[PSIGuy]

...what if, based on the fact that many of the most important Nintendo characters are already in, Nintendo is trying to “future proof” some of their own properties that still fit within the Challenger Pack framework? I’ve mentioned this before in thinking they might have wanted to focus on Switch characters/titles, but this adds more to the context of a future Smash focusing on Switch as a generation.

What are our thoughts?

I think it's entirely possibly, very likely and ironically going to age the game more than anything else. Paying for a guest character is always going to beat out paying Nintendo to put Nintendo characters in their Nintendo game. Not that there's plenty of Switch third parties they couldn't add like SMTV Man, Monster Hunter Rise Man or Travis Touchdown Man but we seem to be focusing on first parties here.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think it's entirely possibly, very likely and ironically going to age the game more than anything else. Paying for a guest character is always going to beat out paying Nintendo to put Nintendo characters in their Nintendo game. Not that there's plenty of Switch third parties they couldn't add like SMTV Man, Monster Hunter Rise Man or Travis Touchdown Man but we seem to be focusing on first parties here.

Well, there's no evidence on that quite yet. We may have gotten two in a row, but the going rate is still one per pass.

 

[zumaddy]

How, exactly? One's the protagonist of a game, and the other's a DLC/side-game of the said game.
I think the hierarchy in who they'd choose is quite clear here.

I didn't say Rex was less likely than them, just that I think people have written them off.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I'd rather have Rex and Pyra but I think Lora/Jin are slept on

Jin and Lora do have the benefit of not having spirits (along with the rest of Torna's cast bar Mythra) and technically being the protagonist of the most recent brand new Xenoblade game that isn't a remaster.

I think it's entirely possibly, very likely and ironically going to age the game more than anything else. Paying for a guest character is always going to beat out paying Nintendo to put Nintendo characters in their Nintendo game. Not that there's plenty of Switch third parties they couldn't add like SMTV Man, Monster Hunter Rise Man or Travis Touchdown Man but we seem to be focusing on first parties here.

I honestly think Travis or someone from SMT or Monster Hunter is more likely then a lot of the most popular suggested third party and even first party character.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly think Travis or someone from SMT or Monster Hunter is more likely then a lot of the most popular suggested third party and even first party character.

Idon when reading this:

 

[Idon]

I honestly think Travis or someone from SMT or Monster Hunter is more likely then a lot of the most popular suggested third party and even first party character.

Let it be known that if the Demi-fiend by some miracle gets into Smash Ultimate as DLC...

That I have been HERE for it since day one.

 

[cosmicB]

The last page talking about Mii costumes and Sans combinations just made me come to an incredible realization.

If we got Monokuma (or any other Danganronpa rep), there would be a decent chance at getting a Nagito costume considering he's one of the most popular characters in the franchise. This would allow us to create a sand undertale Mii.

This would make Kanye West canon to Smash Bros in the same way Sans makes Patrick from Spongebob canon to Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

We all know the Terrarian isn't getting in as a fighter, but what about a Mii Costume?

The issue is, it is not as trending and popular as other games that would most likely be used for a Mii Costume, like Hollow Knight, FNAF, Minecraft, and other iconic series.

 

[Calamitas]

All of the rotating cast series get character picks in this way. Except for The Legend of Zelda series, which doesn't get anything since the Triforce trio is in all of the games.

Ganondorf hasn't been in a canonical Zelda game since 2006.

 

[Deleted member]

Ganondorf hasn't been in a canonical Zelda game since 2006.

WHAT???

Is Ganon different form Ganondorf?

 

[Idon]

WHAT???

Is Ganon different form Ganondorf?

Yeah.

If he's a man-like boar, he's Ganon.
If he's a boarish man, he's Ganondorf.

Sometimes the latter turns into the former.

 

[Deleted member]

We are not getting Rex...

We are getting Definitive Edition Shulk.

 

[Rural_Juror]

We are not getting Rex...

We are getting Definitive Edition Shulk.

Honestly I'm a little leaning towards DE Melia tbh, just cause we don't have DE spirits yet.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly I'm a little leaning towards DE Melia tbh, just cause we don't have DE spirits yet.

.... would it 'need' Spirits? It's just a remake of 1 with new graphics and an additional bonus chapter at the end, right? Unless you're adding Spirits for the bonus chapter, the ones in game already cover the base, no?

 

[DarthEnderX]

WHAT???

Is Ganon different form Ganondorf?

Not really. They're the same character.

 

[7NATOR]

You know, on the topic of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 getting a character, there are 2 interesting things that come to my mind

1. Sakurai Never Said that Xenoblade 2 (Or ARMS) would be playable if their games came out earlier, only that because their games were too late during base roster selection, they couldn't be fully considered. In a hypothetical scenraio that Xenoblade 2 did come out in time to be considered for base roster, it's not confirmed that it would make it into the roster. There still could be setbacks we might not no of, that wasn't of importance since Xenoblade 2 couldn't even been considered for a character in the first place

Since Min-Min is in, I'm sure a Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Character was actually considered in terms of FP2, now whether that pans out remains to be seen

2. Sakurai never Did Explicit state that Rex would be the character if Xenoblade 2 got a character. Really If Rex's Costume wasn't held at a $25 ransom, I'm sure Sakurai wouldn't have Mentioned Rex at all. Now of course with Rex being the main character, it would make sense that he would be considered the sole option. However Considering the method that Min-Min was chosen in, With the creator of the games seeming to have control of what characters get chosen, There's a possibility that Rex might not actually be chosen. There are some other Important characters like Jin and Lora, Nia (who did also get a Mii Costume in base game). It's also possible that it might not Explicit be characters exclusive to Xenoblade 2, and there's the possibility of Elma, KOS-MOS, or Shulk again (but with better stats)

Though with the way Sakurai had to mention the Protagonist thing in the ARMS Presentation, It still might favor Rex. On the other hand, It seemed that Sakurai was considering Min-Min and Ninjara foremost before Spring Man, even seemingly before Yabuki had to tell him the "everyone is a protagonist" Line

 

[Shroob]

You know, on the topic of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 getting a character, there are 2 interesting things that come to my mind

1. Sakurai Never Said that Xenoblade 2 (Or ARMS) would be playable if their games came out earlier, only that because their games were too late during base roster selection, they couldn't be fully considered. In a hypothetical scenraio that Xenoblade 2 did come out in time to be considered for base roster, it's not confirmed that it would make it into the roster. There still could be setbacks we might not no of, that wasn't of importance since Xenoblade 2 couldn't even been considered for a character in the first place

Since Min-Min is in, I'm sure a Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Character was actually considered in terms of FP2, now whether that pans out remains to be seen

2. Sakurai never Did Explicit state that Rex would be the character if Xenoblade 2 got a character. Really If Rex's Costume wasn't held at a $25 ransom, I'm sure Sakurai wouldn't have Mentioned Rex at all. Now of course with Rex being the main character, it would make sense that he would be considered the sole option. However Considering the method that Min-Min was chosen in, With the creator of the games seeming to have control of what characters get chosen, There's a possibility that Rex might not actually be chosen. There are some other Important characters like Jin and Lora, Nia (who did also get a Mii Costume in base game). It's also possible that it might not Explicit be characters exclusive to Xenoblade 2, and there's the possibility of Elma, KOS-MOS, or Shulk again (but with better stats)

Though with the way Sakurai had to mention the Protagonist thing in the ARMS Presentation, It still might favor Rex. On the other hand, It seemed that Sakurai was considering Min-Min and Ninjara foremost before Spring Man, even seemingly before Yabuki had to tell him the "everyone is a protagonist" Line

I like clones.

Hell, I love clones.


but god no. You think people hate Fire Emblem?


Imagine them selling "Shulk.... but slightly different!"

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of clones...

We aren't getting any echo-fighters this pass at all.

Every DLC character has always had a new gimmick that brought something new to the table. An echo-fighter wouldn't sell as much as a unique fighter.

If we get an echo-fighter in the DLC pack, I wouldn't be mad at all. I just feel like they would rather use characters with unique move-sets, as seen by FP1 and FP2.

, , , , , , and either have a gimmick, or they just bring something really new to the table.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

WHAT???

Is Ganon different form Ganondorf?

A good way to put it is they're different characters but the same person. Just like Zero Suit Samus is to Samus, or Mario and Dr. Mario. Think of a character in any kind of game or whatever as a particular form one can be in. And multiple forms would be multiple characters, even if it's the same species. Take Pikachu. If you see, say, 3, then they're each a different character for all intents and purposes in a story. But the person would just be "one" version. Another example is Metal Sonic and Metal Overloard as well. Each form is a different character in the way fiction is created. But they're still the same person. This is why in a ton of games, different forms are uniquely playable too. Because they're treated as separate characters overall. Smash goes with this mindset. Officially, Brawl has 39 characters, as ZSS/Samus are treated as two different ones, Pokemon Trainer is split among three characters, and Zelda/Sheik also are two separate characters. This is also why separating transformations is very easy for Sakurai to begin with, cause they're not the "same character". Multiple personas are too commonly split up, so it was an easy mindset to work with. Hell, Capcom's own fighting games loves to do this; Street Fighter, Marvel VS Capcom. Worst part is some barely feel as notable as Dr. Mario(who at least has a distinct projectile), like Bone-Claw Wolverine in MvC2. Which isn't even as good as, say, Lilith Aensland in MvC1, the clone of Morrigan Aensland. The clones in the first one actually played uniquely enough, with many different animations and stat changes. And only one was highly unique, being the joke character, Roll(to the point that she can barely win against Hulk, and doesn't do well against the rest of the cast).

Ganondorf is the actual human form and didn't originally have Ganon as his transformation till later in-story. He didn't have that access till he got the Triforce of Power. It's unclear if it's the Triforce or Demise's Curse that outright created Ganon. The only thing Demise's Curse is clear on is that it basically influences Ganondorf to have to be evil. He can't literally be good.

Ganon itself is always a pig form, and it can be bipedal or quadripedal. The most unique one so far is from BOTW, the final form, which barely has any "legs" shown all the time, as he can take a somewhat ghostly appearance, still having the boarhead. This particular form resembles the TP design, both being called Demon Beast depending the languages. Worth noting that Demon Beast is not the original wording in TP, and is a bit of an error. Not that it doesn't fit. Ganondorf was created as an alternate form to increase the lore and give a reason to why such an intelligent beast existed. Skyward Sword continued it by emphasizing that Ganon was a product of more than just one person being taught to be evil, but a curse. Which considering it strips some of Ganondorf's free will(he still controls what he does, but as I noted, can't legitimately be a good guy), was not met well by many. Hell, Smash separates them pretty well, especially in Ultimate's own story mode. They're treated as different people effectively, with no ties to each other beyond a similar name. But that mode is weird, since unlike Brawl's SSE, "transformations" aren't actually in the story to begin with. Soooooooo, they made the lore strange. Not that it means much, as it doesn't even follow its own story perfectly(Kirby should not have any actual spirit battles, but he does, despite never being captured).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ganondorf is the man who gives into evil and becomes the Demon King Ganon.

They are the same individual, guys.

 

[Cosmic77]

Ganon could be a cool character, but I dunno.

Personally, I just want to destroy the stigma that versions of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are all that Sakurai will consider. I feel like more doors are opened if someone like Midna or a Champion were added, especially since they're also one-off characters. That's another thing people use as a knock against certain Zelda characters getting in Smash.

 

[Calamitas]

Look, I never said that Ganon was a different character than Ganondorf, or that Ganon hasn't been in a game for a while. What I said is that the last time we've seen a canonical appearance of Ganondorf - that is, the human form of the character - was Twilight Princess in 2006. Hence why they stuck with that design for Smash 4. The only thing that happened with Ganondorf since Twilight Princess is Hyrule Warriors which, while a fantastic design, is not canon.

Edit:
Oh, and on that note: Ganon isn't in all games either, or even most. To pick some of the most recent examples, he wasn't in Link's Awakening or Triforce Heroes.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Look, I never said that Ganon was a different character than Ganondorf, or that Ganon hasn't been in a game for a while. What I said is that the last time we've seen a canonical appearance of Ganondorf - that is, the human form of the character - was Twilight Princess in 2006. Hence why they stuck with that design for Smash 4. The only thing that happened with Ganondorf since Twilight Princess is Hyrule Warriors which, while a fantastic design, is not canon.

Edit:
Oh, and on that note: Ganon isn't in all games either, or even most. To pick some of the most recent examples, he wasn't in Link's Awakening or Triforce Heroes.

On the bright side, Ganondorf is making a new appearance in BotW2.

Whenever that releases.

 

[Curious Villager]

he wasn't in Link's Awakening.

Eh he kinda was as one of Nightmare's forms, but if you don't count that then I suppose not...

 

[Shroob]

So, I heard someone speculate that we could get an announcement of an announcement trailer today because apparently MinMin's came 1 day after the last Tournament?


I kinda doubt it, but I'd love to be proven wrong.



I feel like this week's a very good potential, but I'm definitely not confident enough to say it's absolutely happening this week either, despite all the things pointing to a possibility. We're finally in 'the clear' when it comes to things that have been in need to be released/talked about, and they've finally started to show off DLC with Animal Crossing... but Pokemon's still a giant thing that is missing, and from what I've 'heard', take this with a grain of salt, the Japanese fanbase seems HYPER sus on a reveal happening this week period.


Wait and hope, I guess. Regardless, this week's gonna be fun one way or another.



Inb4 a certain someone starts saying to not be a pessimist despite them being a huge one themselves.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

the Japanese fanbase seems HYPER sus on a reveal happening this week period.

Can you explain?

 

[Deleted member]

Not saying Pyra's design is awful, but the more I look at it, the more confused I get.