Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Teeb147]

Oh, Rowling is already well past the point of "saying some transphobic things". She's going all out on that, doubling down, and acting like she's being silenced in her opinions.
As for her work itself, people have also started going back and realized that isn't exactly as good as they remember, and there really were some pretty telling things in it.

Yeah, well it's the art, or the books here, that I'm curious about for how they were affected. I've never liked gender limitations in works and shows, but it's just how it was in the past. As for what she's said herself, what I'm reading now makes me see that she totally overlooks the other side and only looks for what fits her point of view, quite sad, very inconsiderate.

I remember we talked about the Dragon Quest composer too, and the music is actually great and cheery for quite a bit of it, I see nothing wrong with it at least in that case.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Also, we got Dragon Quest music added into Smash despite how infamously ****ty the composer is.

Rayman's creator being also horrible isn't going to stop the character from getting in.

yeah because "I hate gays and I am a war crime denyer" isnt said in the middle of DQ Overture pff unlike, as others said JK who likes to sneek that stuff in her work

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Tbh, imo at least, the DQ music honestly isn't even all that special, even when taking into account the orchestrated varients

Adventure is only the one I actually enjoy. All the others are wicked bland and kind of blend in with each other

 

[Schnee117]

Some stuff would be harder to deal with even if you can't separate art from artist. Hogwart's Legacy, for example. It is inevitable Rowling will get money off it and she may already have. The devs on the other hand will be affected if a boycott happens depending on how their contract is so they'd be victims despite just wanting money to put food on the table.

Plenty of individual devs have said that it doesn't actually harm them much. Job stability in the industry is notoriously dreadful so a triple ayyyy game flopping wouldn't change that in any significant way. The biggest effect a game flopping would have is that an already overly rich executive will earn less money.

 

[MooMew64]

At this point, all we can do is hope.


We have, for "Evidence" of Smash coming soon:



The 7-11 ad
The missing 9~12 notification slots
The fact that Nintendo doesn't have a whole hell of a lot left to show for weekly updates aside from Pokemon
Amiibo theory


So while it's definitely possible, likely even, nothing's 100% set in stone yet. For all we know, Crown Tundra could donkey punch us all square in the jaw. Just be glad that Animal Crossing's update is out of the way.

Next week is definitely either going to end in profound relief or profound disappointment.

Business as usual.

 

[Teeb147]

Tbh, the DQ music honestly isn't even all that special, even when taking into account the orchestrated varients

Adventure is only the one I actually enjoy. All the others are wicked bland and kind of blend in with each other

I think they're really good and cheery for an rpg game. I like it. Altho ive played some dragon quests so much the music kind of just fades away from hearing it so much.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I get wanting to boycott **** if a very bad person will profit off of it but it sounds kinda hypocritical to read that in a Smash forum where I presume most people have bought Smash Ultimate.

Personally I don't think there's much of a distinction between buying a product that will give money to an asshole, and buying a product that will give money to an IP holder profiting off the work of an asshole. Either way there's a clear incentive to corporations to support talented dip****s because they'll be able to continue making bank even if the creators are disgraced.

 

[Teeb147]

I get wanting to boycott **** if a very bad person will profit off of it but it sounds kinda hypocritical to read that in a Smash forum where I presume most people have bought Smash Ultimate.

Personally I don't think there's much of a distinction between buying a product that will give money to an asshole, and buying a product that will give money to an IP holder profiting off the work of an asshole. Either way there's a clear incentive to corporations to support talented dip****s because they'll be able to continue making bank even if the creators are disgraced.

I think someone could say a lot of businesses have assholes in them XD

That said, I'm considering boycotting rowling now that i read a letter she wrote, Im just a little disappointed and pissed off at her now.
Thankfully harry potter cant make it in smash... I think :O

 

[SharkLord]

Gonna bring this up again but has many different PSO2 classes that would all be fun to and could easily transfer into a fighting game

I would love to see any Phantasy Star character get in smash. Either take a PSO character or a classic PS and modernize them by giving them moves inpired by the modern game.

WHAT THE %$#@ IS GOING ON

And more importantly...

Where can I find more?

 

[RouffWestie]

Rayman's already done enough to his own career to get himself cancelled. At least in South America.

 

[Strong-Arm]

if nightmare did get in i wonder if hed have auto turn around

soul calibur was always more about neutral and just short combos/juggles and not specials or anything

theres almost no special inputs in soul calibur to speak of. So i wonder if nightmare did get in hed just move like a normal char cause thered be no reason to give him the auto turn around or cancel mechanic cause thats not how it works in soul calibur

 

[SKX31]

I'm fully expecting salt for whoever CP7 is


Some will be upset due to them taking soo long

Some will be upset due to them not being who they wanted/"They don't deserve...."

Some will be upset due to them being "Obvious"

And some will be upset depending on what company they're from/the Mii costumes that come with them


Either way, whenever that announcement drops, I got a bucket of popcorn ready.

Add to that the competitive people spotting the details and asking whether or nor the character seems high / mid / low tier. "BROKEN" or "TRASH" even. Sometimes with clickbaity thumbnails.

That said, count me in. That popcorn is so good, in fact, that I bought a bucketload as prep for FP7.

Spoiler: It's off topic, and I went on a short rant, so here's a spoiler box

Well to name one, the lack of innovation. The most common complaint about the series is that each game is the same. This is in part due to sticking with the same structure because it's incredibly effective in regards to what the series wants to accomplish, but we're 8 generations in and their idea of shaking things up in the main series games was doing literally the same thing they always do, but objectively worse for the most part, and removing wild encounters. Add to that the fact that rather than trying out new ideas, they add in new gimmicks and minor features and take them out regardless of whether or not they stick and it's just...ugh.

Like, in the last 3 generations, they've made a completely new online interface. The first one worked amazingly, the second one was a gimmicky side mode from a previous game turned into the mandatory online hub and sucks just as much as you'd expect, and the last is pretty basic, drops the framerate when its turned on because of trying to add other people to the Wild Area like it's an mmo, and doesn't even work most of the time.
For battle mechanics, they introduced Mega Evolutions, which everyone liked, then Z-Moves, which are just a nuke button, and then dropped them both for Dynamax/Gigantamax, which was made with only doubles in mind, so they're 3-turn nuke buttons that don't really matter if both of you use it at the same time in singles, and basically just Mega Evolutions in doubles, but with weather.

It also doesn't help that they're always trying to find a way to unnecessarily casualize the games, so now there's like, three trainers that use any sort of strategy in the entire game, and they keep pulling crap like telling you to go next door in a cutscene, let you walk outside, show you the building that's right next door in a cutscene, let you walk two steps down the street towards it, and then use a third cutscene to walk you inside the building that was right freaking next door.

Aaaaah, yeah. The event horizon that's in the middle of a black hole. The "Sauron's Eye" of Mordor. The proof in the Pudding.

The core of the issue. I'm also going to go spoilery (and speculate about GF's intent):

Spoiler

On one hand, it's not like "lack of innovation" has stopped companies like EA from doing stuff like that. On the other, I've mentioned how that has damaged EA's reputation and gotten govermental ire at them. So yeaaaah, it's something that's very much affecting Game Freak as well. I simply didn't consider it as much of a problem for Pokemon because... well, it's not annual. And the changes are more significant than EA's / 2K's "new trinkets / rosters!" While Ultimate Team gets most of the attention because that's the money-maker and other modes... seemingly left to collect dust. While EA Sports has a huge audience, they have wildly different tastes, and some segments thus wind up thinking they're not cartered to at all. A lot of FIFA's / Madden's new yearly mechanics also look like rehashes from say, 5-10 years ago. And that's not accounting for the fact that Madden 21 at release was so unfinished it was thrashed - arguably worse than Dexit. I'm dead serious with that claim.

Paradox Interactive has had the opposite problem with its DLC: where the new mechanics introduced in Europa Universalis 4's many, many patches and DLC expansions (16 DLC expansions since 2013) can wind up interfering with each other - as well as the base game's code - and causing problems that way. The DLCs vary from "small stuff" to "massive improvements to the game" too, and it's difficult for a newbie to distinguish the difference between the two. I really, really enjoyed EU4 tons, but yikes I dislike the rapid-fire DLC expansion model too.

That's a weak point in GF's favor, yes. Back to Pokemon:

As for mechanics, I've always found it odd at best that they have Mega Evolutions / Z-Moves / Dynamax exclusive to one gen exclusively, then drop it like the hottest of potatoes. That to me signals a problem of ideas within GF's / TPC's staff - that of reinventing the same wheel instead of focusing on a different wheel. A bit reminiscient of EA's "new mechanics seem like rehashes of new mechanics from 10 years back". I'm the type who welcomed the changes to Alola because it wasn't the same old "8 Gyms", it was an undestandable change. But SwSh went back to the "8 Gyms" there. Time constraints

The online interfaces kind of baffle me though. If it's like you described and the first one worked, then why not keep it as the basis for the second? Those two were in the same console generation too. Ditto learning from the mistakes of the second online mode for Sword / Shield. Now, TPC / GF have been wanting to market each new gen with something fresh in this area to compensate for the relatively stagnant gameplay I'd imagine (Pokemon Home for example)... I don't think that that's a good idea personally. Especially not since they run into the same problem as Paradox here: The new stuff risks running into the base game or each other, like what you mentioned with SwSh's Online lagging Wild Areas.

I have no experience with SwSh - so I can't say that much about the "casualization". But I do remember that that happened to some degree with SuMo. And from what I've seen of SwSh's story (IoA included) it appears that it's railroady and handholdy too. That might be a byproduct of competitive Pokemon players clearing the stories in a couple hours flat anyway, so the handholding might not just be a way to make sure the newcomers can have a frustration-less experience, but also to ensure that the competitive players get to "the good stuff" sooner. Now there's the problem of a huge audience again, just like FIFA / Madden. By making sure the games' (and DLC) story caters to newcomers and competitive players alike, it risks (and apparently does) leave middle-of-the-road players behind with a system that at you feel is too handholdy.

Long story short: It might be just me who's completely off here, but I'm seeing some parrallels between Game Freak / TPC and EA Sports / Paradox Interactive in how they handle releases and DLC.

 

[KillerCage]

So another game here.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My choices would be

Lloyd
Ryu Hayabusa
2B
Reimu
Travis

Guess it's my turn.

Master Chief
Rex
Arle Nadja
Travis Touchdown
Phoenix Wright

(Sorry Hayabusa!)

 

[Teeb147]

Rayman's already done enough to his own career to get himself cancelled. At least in South America.

Lol what? what was Rayman involved in?

 

[Perkilator]

Michel Ancel has stated on his Instagram that the allegations of him being a toxic manager are false. Let's hope this is the truth. Ancel always seemed to be a swell guy, even protesting against ubisoft themselves when they delayed legends. Of course we gotta wait and see🙏 https://t.co/pLDkQAhq4Z

— Rayman for Smash Together (@RaymanForSmash) September 25, 2020

Ancel said that the allegations against him are false. Let’s hope it’s true!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Gonna bring this up again but has many different PSO2 classes that would all be fun to and could easily transfer into a fighting game

Eat your heart out Sora.

...

He's probably already done that hasn't he.

if nightmare did get in i wonder if hed have auto turn around

soul calibur was always more about neutral and just short combos/juggles and not specials or anything

theres almost no special inputs in soul calibur to speak of. So i wonder if nightmare did get in hed just move like a normal char cause thered be no reason to give him the auto turn around or cancel mechanic cause thats not how it works in soul calibur

If there isn't any auto turnaround in SoulCalibur (as in, you could strafe all the way around your opponent if they do nothing, and they don't autocorrect when a button is pressed), they probably wouldn't add it in Super Smash Bros.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

View attachment 286789
WHAT THE %$#@ IS GOING ON

And more importantly...

Where can I find more?

Those are the successor classes in PSO2

Etoile which uses Wands and Dual Blades/Sabers
Phantom which uses Assault Rifles, Katana's, and Scythes

and two more

Hero which uses Swords, Twin Machine Guns, and Talises
Luster which only uses Gunblades

 

[Teeb147]

Those are the successor classes in PSO2

Etoile which uses Wands and Dual Blades/Sabers
Phantom which uses Assault Rifles, Katana's, and Scythes

and two more

Hero which uses Swords, Twin Machine Guns, and Talises
Luster which only uses Gunblades

Thanks for explaining, I was actually wondering why they used weapons I didn't know about. I almost went ahead to play PSO2, the combat looks great, but I just didn't feel like I'd play use enough time to get far.

I wonder if nintendo would ever consider mmo characters for smash. My initial thought would be probably not..

 

[pupNapoleon]

Can someone hype me up a bit for Travis? In the case he does get in, I don't want to be as pessimistic about it as I currently feel.

 

[Schnee117]

if nightmare did get in i wonder if hed have auto turn around

soul calibur was always more about neutral and just short combos/juggles and not specials or anything

theres almost no special inputs in soul calibur to speak of. So i wonder if nightmare did get in hed just move like a normal char cause thered be no reason to give him the auto turn around or cancel mechanic cause thats not how it works in soul calibur

Nightmare's a case where he could have several different gimmicks.
He's got a variety of stances. He's got Terror Charge. He's got Grim Stride. He's got Soul Calibur's own mechanics with facing away attacks.

Terror Charge is an absolute must though.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Nightmare's a case where he could have several different gimmicks.
He's got a variety of stances. He's got Terror Charge. He's got Grim Stride. He's got Soul Calibur's own mechanics with facing away attacks.

Terror Charge is an absolute must though.

the real question is if hed have siegfried alts or not

 

[cashregister9]

Can someone hype me up a bit for Travis? In the case he does get in, I don't want to be as pessimistic about it as I currently feel.

No More Heroes has some of my favorite video game songs these are some of my favorites
Kill Or Be Killed
N.M.H.
We Are Finally Cowboys
Season of the Samurai
KM 1-1
Nathan Is Our Boss
Shoegazer Watched The Stars
Philistine (Naughty Words)
Vioectrolysis
Mach 13 Elephant Explosion
Silver Face
Twilight
Happy WarMore
Pleather For Breakfast
Stop Hanging DJs
Twin Electromagic
Dynamite Rocket
Dose Of Innocence
Rocket Surgeon
Beam Katana Chronicles II
Subuta.1
Subuta.2

Travis himself is a professional wrestler combined with a Jedi and that is about as wacky as it sounds

 

[Droodle]

Michel Ancel has stated on his Instagram that the allegations of him being a toxic manager are false. Let's hope this is the truth. Ancel always seemed to be a swell guy, even protesting against ubisoft themselves when they delayed legends. Of course we gotta wait and see🙏 https://t.co/pLDkQAhq4Z

— Rayman for Smash Together (@RaymanForSmash) September 25, 2020

Ancel said that the allegations against him are false. Let’s hope it’s true!

I mean most of the time, people aren't going to say it's true if they get accused. Unless they get cornered.

I'm of the opinion that people can still enjoy Rayman regardless of what Ancel did, as he's only a figurehead for a much bigger team behind him. I'm also of the opinion that chances are there is 1 big POS in the development of pretty much most AAA games; maybe it's me being cynical but when teams get larger and larger, there are bound to be bad apples mixed in.

Besides, from what I've heard this **** isn't even uncommon in the gaming industry, it's been a problem for a long, long time; and there have been reports of many cases of borderline insane work conditions at some of the most popular studios in the world. Naughty Dog, CDPR, Rockstar, all have tons of bad rumors going around them in terms of work culture. Doesn't make Ancel right or anything (he is very much in the wrong, if the rumors are true), but this treatment of employees is a problem that most major studios around the world have to fix.

 

[SharkLord]

Those are the successor classes in PSO2

Etoile which uses Wands and Dual Blades/Sabers
Phantom which uses Assault Rifles, Katana's, and Scythes

and two more

Hero which uses Swords, Twin Machine Guns, and Talises
Luster which only uses Gunblades

This game is absolutely insane. I seem to recall that there was a series of Phantasy Star RPGs that came before PSO2, right? I'd imagine PSO2 has customizable avatars, so would we get one of those as a Phantasy Star rep, or would we have a classic PS character who's attacks and animations are based off of PSO2's frickery?

 

[Teeb147]

I mean most of the time, people aren't going to say it's true if they get accused. Unless they get cornered.

I'm of the opinion that people can still enjoy Rayman regardless of what Ancel did, as he's only a figurehead for a much bigger team behind him. I'm also of the opinion that chances are there is 1 big POS in the development of pretty much most AAA games; maybe it's me being cynical but when teams get larger and larger, there are bound to be bad apples mixed in.

Besides, from what I've heard this **** isn't even uncommon in the gaming industry, it's been a problem for a long, long time; and there have been reports of many cases of borderline insane work conditions at some of the most popular studios in the world. Naughty Dog, CDPR, Rockstar, all have tons of bad rumors going around them in terms of work culture. Doesn't make Ancel right or anything (he is very much in the wrong, if the rumors are true), but this treatment of employees is a problem that most major studios around the world have to fix.

That's true,but it does happen that people exagerate claims sometimes, so my guess is that we'll find out even more soon because he's deying it. If not, then maybe they just have it out for him.

 

[SharkLord]

Can someone hype me up a bit for Travis? In the case he does get in, I don't want to be as pessimistic about it as I currently feel.

To be fair, the hobo you're not supposed to grow up to be isn't exactly an optimistic outcome. Then again, he can't be any worse than the overweight gassy man and the psychotic offspring of Freddy Krueger and a Xenomorph, so let's give a rundown.

Basically, No More Heroes could simultaneously be considered a celebration, parody, and deconstruction of what's considered cool. Travis is a geeky otaku with some... Less than savory interests who somehow accidentally becomes an assassin, forcing him to fight his way up the ranks with a beam katana he got off a yard sale (Or was it eBay? I don't quite remember). His cool, glamorous life as an assassin is juxtaposed with the cold reality of being stuck in a motel room and rooting through dumpsters for collectables. Eventually he starts growing out of it, but yeah. That's basically No More Heroes for you.

As for Travis himself, he has a beam sword and pulls off wrestling moves, among other things. I'm sure Sakurai and co. can spin something enjoyable out of that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Travis himself is a professional wrestler combined with a Jedi and that is about as wacky as it sounds

That twig is a professional wrestler?

 

[cashregister9]

That twig is a professional wrestler?

I meant it in an aesthetic sense but it was stated in NMH1 that he did some pro-wrestling training

 

[pupNapoleon]

Something really bad would have to have happened. I highly doubt that'd be a thing.

So... 2020 would have had to have happened?

 

[Goombaic]

That twig is a professional wrestler?

Leave skinny wrestlers alone they're sick as **** I swear.

 

[Lamperouge]

Tbh, imo at least, the DQ music honestly isn't even all that special, even when taking into account the orchestrated varients

Adventure is only the one I actually enjoy. All the others are wicked bland and kind of blend in with each other

I'm a rising DQ fan with three (almost four since I'm nearing the end of DQXI) games under my belt and I still don't quite understand the heaps of praise given to the soundtracks. There's some pretty good stuff here and there but there's also some extremely grating tunes like...most of the battle themes, really lol.

And the DQ music selection in Smash is hella weak and easily the weakest out of the DLC characters, IMO.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m just salty that Hero’s trailer had that huge grand orchestrated piece that doesn’t actually appear in the game... like other things...

 

[Captain Shwampy]

This game is absolutely insane. I seem to recall that there was a series of Phantasy Star RPGs that came before PSO2, right? I'd imagine PSO2 has customizable avatars, so would we get one of those as a Phantasy Star rep, or would we have a classic PS character who's attacks and animations are based off of PSO2's frickery?

Either a Avatar character that uses a certain class, Classic Phantasy Star character that takes cues from PSO, or a PSO character like Red Ring Rico or Matoi

Thanks for explaining, I was actually wondering why they used weapons I didn't know about. I almost went ahead to play PSO2, the combat looks great, but I just didn't feel like I'd play use enough time to get far.

I wonder if nintendo would ever consider mmo characters for smash. My initial thought would be probably not..

Phantasy Star is an iconic RPG series. It was basically the OG Sci-fi RPG.
Monster Hunter, Xeno games, and Fire Emblem all take heavy inspiration from it.

FE stole several designs from PSII and III.
Monster Hunter wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for PSO.

 

[N3ON]

I just think otaku Johnny Knoxville with a lightsaber is a winning combination.

 

[Teeb147]

Either a Avatar character that uses a certain class, Classic Phantasy Star character that takes cues from PSO, or a PSO character like Red Ring Rico or Matoi

Phantasy Star is an iconic RPG series. It was basically the OG Sci-fi RPG.
Monster Hunter, Xeno games, and Fire Emblem all take heavy inspiration from it.

FE stole several design from PSII and III.
Monster Hunter wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for PSO.

Sure. I played the classic phantasy star. It was alright. I was more saying that I'm not sure an mmo would be thought of as good characters for smash.

 

[cashregister9]

When It comes to MMO's I think there are only 3 options at this point in time

Wizard 101 World Of Warcraft
Final Fantasy XIV
Phantasy Star

All of them have actual characters not just avatars that could easily fit one of the classes and all 3 of the games have some impact on gaming history in some way shape or form so I would not entirely rule them out just yet.

I think XIV has a better chance than XI and Skyrim has a better chance than ESO

 

[SharkLord]

When It comes to MMO's I think there are only 3 options at this point in time

Wizard 101 World Of Warcraft
Final Fantasy XIV
Phantasy Star

All of them have actual characters not just avatars that could easily fit one of the classes and all 3 of the games have some impact on gaming history in some way shape or form so I would not entirely rule them out just yet.

I mean

Also,
And don't forget,

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Sure. I played the classic phantasy star. It was alright. I was more saying that I'm not sure an mmo would be thought of as good characters for smash.

I dont believe genre matters
PSO is very different from the average MMO too.

Sonic Team basically took aspect they learned from making Burning Rangers, playing Diablo, and classic PS and made a fun online hack and slash dungeon crawler.

 

[cashregister9]

I mean

Also,
And don't forget,

I understand that we already have Blank Slate characters but if for some reason people think that MMO's need a different standard so I put that there. I personally am sick of completely silent avatars being added to smash so a little bit of my personal bias snuck in there.

 

[Teeb147]

I dont believe genre matters
PSO is very different from the average MMO too.

Sonic Team basically took aspect they learned from making Burning Rangers, playing Diablo, and classic PS and made a fun online hack and slash dungeon crawler.

I meant in terms of characters lol. But I do still think it's hard to know if nintendo or sakurai would consider an mmo as well. We do have avatar characters in smash, but not to that extent.