Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly I think it could be said that the First Fighter's Pass was essentially way too diverse to get exactly predictions for anything in the second one. The closest thing to patterns there were anti-patterns; that its not likely going to be overtly dominated by newer or older franchises, and that no geographic region overtly dominates in terms of selection.

Even the Byleth selection was not necessarily indicative of anything about first parties or shilling picks, but its existence has induced a cynical expectation by many about what will be coming. I've seen many Pokemon predictions which feel predicated on that very point: "Well of course there's going to be the 8th gen promotional selection given what happened last time." It might be one of the few speculations about a fighter entirely built on the idea of preparing for disappointment which says something about the mixed reaction to the first pass I guess.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah. In the context of Smash, Adol or Estelle are dark horse picks but these two (or any Falcom rep) would surprise me and not at the same time, even if that sounds strange.

It would surprise me because Falcom isn't very discussed in speculation, also, they're not incredibly popular in general. But it also wouldn't surprise me that much because, as you said, they definitely have the legacy and the quality to get some kind of representation in Smash, just like SNK.

Right now, I'm mostly trying to figure out if we'd get Ys or Trials first. I thought Ys was older, but cashregister pointed out that Legend of Heroes is older. From what I can gather, I at least think Trials is a spin-off...

Yeah, I'm going to have to dig into this a bit more, because I am completely lost here.

 

[N3ON]

Wild how people are still only looking at Nintendo characters with promotional potential after getting 7 DLC characters where, at most, 2 could be said to be promoting anything.

Recency blinders and all that.

I had a debate with someone who contended that there was no precedent of getting third-party characters as DLC because the previous two have been first party. No precedent. It was at that point that I disengaged because I just... couldn't.

AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE

 

[DarthEnderX]

Why not? Zero Suit Samus and Daisy are newcomers. Echo/extension or not, they're new characters. I feel like it would be more disingenuous to not include them.

No, Zero Suit Samus was not a newcomer UNTIL Smash 4. In Brawl, she was part of Samus' moveset. Samus wasn't a newcomer in Brawl, therefor Zero Suit wasn't a newcomer.

And if you're gonna count echoes Daisy as a newcomer, then I guess Ultimate comes in a big fat last place because one of it's 3 is a goddamn alt costume.

Nah, swappable characters count as completely different movesets as seen by the Pokémon Trainer still counting as three fighters.

Irrelevant because that distinction wasn't made until Ultimate. And means Charizard was a newcomer in two separate games.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yeah. In the context of Smash, Adol or Estelle are dark horse picks but these two (or any Falcom rep) would surprise me and not at the same time, even if that sounds strange.

What would Estelle’s gameplay “gimmick” be?

 

[N3ON]

No, Zero Suit Samus was not a newcomer UNTIL Smash 4. In Brawl, she was part of Samus' moveset. Samus wasn't a newcomer in Brawl, therefor Zero Suit wasn't a newcomer.

And if you're gonna count echoes Daisy as a newcomer, then I guess Ultimate comes in a big fat last place because one of it's 3 is a goddamn alt costume.

That's not the way characters are counted.

Sakurai said Brawl had 39 characters. The DOJO lists ZSS as a newcomer. The fanbase considers there to be 39 characters. It's just you.

Daisy is also a newcomer.

 

[Speed Weed]

Nintendo Fans: We want the announcement of the next Smash fighter NOW!
Nintendo: Nah, here's more Animal Crossing instead. While we're at it also Pokemon next week despite the fact nothing regarding it until November. You'll have to wait in two weeks.

michael this is the seventh time in a row you've joked about nintendo giving us anything other than smash news

 

[DarthEnderX]

What would Estelle’s gameplay “gimmick” be?

Anime stickfighter.

That's not the way characters are counted.

Sakurai said Brawl had 39 characters. The DOJO lists ZSS as a newcomer. The fanbase considers there to be 39 characters. It's just you.

Daisy is also a newcomer.

Sakurai also says Smash for 3DS and Smash for Wii U are Smash 4 and 5. Sakurai is wrong sometimes. And the fanbase will parrot whatever Sakurai says, even when he's wrong.

Sheik, Zero Suit and Charizard were Smash 4 newcomers.

 

[RileyXY1]

That's not the way characters are counted.

Sakurai said Brawl had 39 characters. The DOJO lists ZSS as a newcomer. The fanbase considers there to be 39 characters. It's just you.

Daisy is also a newcomer.

Yeah, and Zero Suit Samus herself appears in Events in both Brawl and Smash 4 that involve Brawl newcomers.

 

[SNEKeater]

Right now, I'm mostly trying to figure out if we'd get Ys or Trials first. I thought Ys was older, but cashregister pointed out that Legend of Heroes is older. From what I can gather, I at least think Trials is a spin-off...

Yeah, I'm going to have to dig into this a bit more, because I am completely lost here.

Until recently I wasn't really into Falcom, but as far as I know, the Trails series isn't a spin-off. Well, maybe it is, but in a similar way to Persona. According to Wikipedia:

The Legend of Heroes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Legend of Heroes has different sub-series, the first being Dragon Slayer, which started in 1989.
Trails is the third sub-series of Legend of Heroes, and the most successful and popular as well.

Then the Trails series could be divided, so far, in 3 series or arcs. The Sky games (where Estelle first appeared), the Crossbell duology, and then the Cold Steel games, which is the newest one and has 4 games.

 

[N3ON]

Anime stickfighter.


Sakurai also says Smash for 3DS and Smash for Wii U are Smash 4 and 5. Sakurai is wrong sometimes. And the fanbase will parrot whatever Sakurai says, even when he's wrong.

Sheik, Zero Suit and Charizard were Smash 4 newcomers.

He's wrong whenever you disagree with him, right?

 

[cashregister9]

Right now, I'm mostly trying to figure out if we'd get Ys or Trials first. I thought Ys was older, but cashregister pointed out that Legend of Heroes is older. From what I can gather, I at least think Trials is a spin-off...

Yeah, I'm going to have to dig into this a bit more, because I am completely lost here.

Bascially:

Dragon Slayer which released in 1984 then it was Dragon Slayer: Xanadu, Then after several Ys, games we get Dragon Slayer: Legend Of Heroes then they kept making Ys games and then Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes II and then after that they dropped the Dragon Slayer title from the series and is now known as the Legend of Heroes series

What would Estelle’s gameplay “gimmick” be?

She has a bo-staff and can use several different types of Magic. Allow me to shill the Support thread where I created a moveset for Estelle

 

[SNEKeater]

What would Estelle’s gameplay “gimmick” be?

I don't think I'm the most qualified to answer that, I recently just started playing the second Trails in the Sky game. And I'm not really good making movesets or guessing how a character would fight (I mean, I was like 101% sure Joker was going to focus more on bein able to summon different Personas).

But as cashregister9 said, Estelle has a bo-staff and she can use all elemental magic in her games. A sepith related gimmick, as he suggested, sounds interesting.

 

[PacificFun]

Anime stickfighter.


Sakurai also says Smash for 3DS and Smash for Wii U are Smash 4 and 5. Sakurai is wrong sometimes. And the fanbase will parrot whatever Sakurai says, even when he's wrong.

Sheik, Zero Suit and Charizard were Smash 4 newcomers.

Smash Wii U and Smash 3DS are different games with two separate release dates though. How are they not Smash 4 and 5 respectively?

And eh, I would rather say they were retooled veterans in Smash 4. Their Brawl and Smash 4 movesets are very similar.

 

[SKX31]

That's not the way characters are counted.

Sakurai said Brawl had 39 characters. The DOJO lists ZSS as a newcomer. The fanbase considers there to be 39 characters. It's just you.

Daisy is also a newcomer.

No, Zero Suit Samus was not a newcomer UNTIL Smash 4. In Brawl, she was part of Samus' moveset. Samus wasn't a newcomer in Brawl, therefor Zero Suit wasn't a newcomer.

And if you're gonna count echoes Daisy as a newcomer, then I guess Ultimate comes in a big fat last place because one of it's 3 is a goddamn alt costume.

Irrelevant because that distinction wasn't made until Ultimate. And means Charizard was a newcomer in two separate games.

ZSS does have a unique aspect to her - besides her being selectable a la Sheik in Melee (Holding A while loading the match). Yes, she's counted as a Brawl newcomer the same way Sheik's a Melee newcomer. The armor pieces that fall off her FS spawn at the beginning of a match, even with items turned off - there are three armor pieces that can be used possibly multiple times. She's thus the only character who's had (an aspect of) her Final Smash appear in more competitive matches. *

Video proof of her being selectable a la Sheik in Melee:

*As an aside, the armor pieces deal 9 - 11 % damage but high knockback - they can shut down opponents at the beginning of a match:

The Power Suit Pieces are considered to be useful projectiles in competitive play, and players will usually try to keep one on the screen for repeated use. The pieces can be thrown rather far, which is further supported by Zero Suit Samus's quick glide toss, that also covers a moderately large distance. The pieces also have decent knockback (very high for a projectile - they even have some KO power against offstage opponents). Glide tossing a piece while throwing it up is considered a solid approach option that covers Zero Suit Samus while she can short hop and space with a forward or back aerial. However, there are ways to deal with the pieces, such as Falco's Reflector. Characters with quick air dodges such as Meta Knight can also grab them relatively easily if they see it coming, and if the opponent has access to a glide toss that covers large distance (most notably Meta Knight, Sonic, and Pit), they can use it to their advantage as well.

 

[ShrimpScampi]

What would Estelle’s gameplay “gimmick” be?

In terms of her base fighting style, she uses a bo staff, which would help set her apart visually from the rest of the roster. As far as gameplay mechanics go, Trails is turn-based, with a pretty expansive spell system using elemental crystals called sepith, so I think her moveset could revolve around a mix of staff combat and spells. (Unrelated, but I love how the spells and physical specials in Trails are called “arts” and “crafts”)

One of her crafts, Hard Break, can interrupt an enemy charging a powerful art or craft, and I remember someone in the Estelle thread mentioning how that could translate over to being able to empty stored charges on enemy moves (charge shot, gyro, Hero fire spell, etc). The Cold Steel arc (specifically 3 and 4) also introduces the idea of Brave Orders, which boost certain stats for a couple turns. If they wanted to incorporate that, it’d be similar to Monado Arts. And the moveset cashregister9 made for her uses a sepith-based mechanic to manage spell use. Obviously all of these at once would be a bit much, but they’re options if Sakurai wanted to give her a larger gameplay gimmick.

Overall, she’d revolve around using her big hurty stick and casting arts, but if they want to implement a big gimmick they do have some things they can pull from.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Sooo uh, are we allowed to talk about characters that could be cut in Smash 6 here? Not sure if that's a really unpopular topic, but I feel like it's something else we can debate because we've exhausted a lot of the usual talking points.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sooo uh, are we allowed to talk about characters that could be cut in Smash 6 here? Not sure if that's a really unpopular topic, but I feel like it's something else we can debate because we've exhausted a lot of the usual talking points.

Let’s please not go there...

just hold on guys. There’s always tomorrow, or even tonight which will be Wednesday morning in Japan. The holiday will be over, we could get an announcement of SOMETHING. please just hold out a while longer...

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Let’s please not go there...

just hold on guys. There’s always tomorrow, or even tonight which will be Wednesday morning in Japan. The holiday will be over, we could get an announcement of SOMETHING. please just hold out a while longer...

Haha, just a suggestion no worries I won't start a war.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Smash Wii U and Smash 3DS are different games with two separate release dates though. How are they not Smash 4 and 5 respectively?

Cool. Good to know Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is actually Mario Kart 9.

He's wrong whenever you disagree with him, right?

He's wrong when he says something that's complete nonsense. Like when he says stance-switching is actually a separate character. Or when a port of a game is actually that game's sequel.

But, as we are proving here, the fanbase will say he's right no matter what idiotic statement he makes.

 

[extremeturkey]

noticed that a bunch of pages have appeared since I logged off last night

what I expected: "Oh boy, something interesting must’ve happened last night. an announcement of some sort? a credible leak? an early announced spirit event deconfirming a big third party??"

what I got: another Geno debate

LMAO

 

[SKX31]

Sooo uh, are we allowed to talk about characters that could be cut in Smash 6 here? Not sure if that's a really unpopular topic, but I feel like it's something else we can debate because we've exhausted a lot of the usual talking points.

The problem with that question is that Smash 6's really far into the future at least. Are we talking lets say 2025? 2030? 2035? Those three hypotheoretical options are going to have wildly different implications because of new IPs, new games, perhaps even movies impacting the franchises etc.

Plus we have no clue how many characters Smash 6 is going to have at launch. 40? 50? 60? Is it a live service game or not? How many newcomers would Smash 6 have at launch? The initial roster size alone would make a major difference.

So yeah, it's really difficult to talk about.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The trend right now is first party characters with a recent game released. My picks are Astral Chain, Pokemon SWSH & Paper Mario

Trends are tricky to follow, and typically don’t follow through, such as with Byleth

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think there might be something to speculating that if there was a hypothetical Smash 6 circa 2023/2024 (roughly when there would be a Switch 2) who would likely be base game picks.

Like for example, if we don't get Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, & Impa in DLC, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them in the core of a Smash 6 game.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

Man....whenever I boot the game back up and see Min Min on the CSS I just have the biggest dumb smile on my face, seeing her in there makes me feel things
Can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to have Layton in there as well...

 

[SharkLord]

What would Estelle’s gameplay “gimmick” be?

She has a big stick and she hits you with it. If Byleth having multiple weapons and Banjo having a couple specials that work a little differently than normal count as gimmicks, so does a big whacky stick.

 

[Dinoman96]

I'm more than certain Ring Fit Trainee will be the Inkling of the next Smash.

In the extremely unlikely event we get a bonus third season for this game, they'd be first in line, 100%.

 

[extremeturkey]

Sooo uh, are we allowed to talk about characters that could be cut in Smash 6 here?

Yes. Instead of newcomer trailers, they would make veteran cut trailers.

Trailer idea: Lucina and Dark Pit are fighting on the Super Mario Maker stage. Suddenly, the hand that draws the stage pops up and erases Lucina. She screams and her voice can be heard saying "I suppose my chances are over..." and then the announcer says "Lucina is being cut from SSB!! Stay tuned for more trailers!" while the camera hovers ominously on Dark Pit.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I haven't been active on SmashBoards since Banjo was announced, and I only came back in July. I forget what it's like to be on the site when a character gets announced.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm more than certain Ring Fit Trainee will be the Inkling of the next Smash.

In the extremely unlikely event we get a bonus third season for this game, they'd be first in line, 100%.

Question: IF Rex doesn’t become playable DLC throughout Smash’s DLC lifespan, think he’ll be the Chrom/K. Rool of Smash 6 provided he has enough enduring demand?

 

[Dark Bagel]

Sooo uh, are we allowed to talk about characters that could be cut in Smash 6 here? Not sure if that's a really unpopular topic, but I feel like it's something else we can debate because we've exhausted a lot of the usual talking points.

We could talk about prospective post-Ultimate title names. Might we see a return to fight synonyms a la Melee and Brawl? Super Smash Bros Clash? Super Smash Bros Disagreement? Super Smash Bros V I O L E N T A L T E R C A T I O N?

 

[SharkLord]

Question: IF Rex doesn’t become playable DLC throughout Smash’s DLC lifespan, think he’ll be the Chrom/K. Rool of Smash 6 provided he has enough enduring demand?

I'd imagine so. Screwed out of the base game because he came to late, but Byleth was added despite coming even later, and Min Min was added despite being in the same boat as Rex. And while we're at it, let's go with my semi-joking suggestion of Nia being added over Rex just to drive the screw even further.

We could talk about prospective post-Ultimate title names. Might we see a return to fight synonyms a la Melee and Brawl? Super Smash Bros Clash? Super Smash Bros Disagreement? Super Smash Bros V I O L E N T A L T E R C A T I O N?

Well, I've heard SSB4 used to be nicknamed "Super Smash Bros. Kerfuffle."

Anyways, if you want a comprehensive list of possible Smash names of varying quality, there's this. You can also see my own (Very unfinished) Smash title here.

Nope. No shameless self-advertising here, not one bit. No siree.

 

[Cosmic77]

Sooo uh, are we allowed to talk about characters that could be cut in Smash 6 here? Not sure if that's a really unpopular topic, but I feel like it's something else we can debate because we've exhausted a lot of the usual talking points.

Personally, I don't mind discussing cuts, especially since we barely discuss them here anymore. If you can be respectful and acknowledge that other people's opinions are just as important as your own, I say go for it.

That being said, I've seen how this plays out a million times before. You probably won't get very far.

Person 1: "Does anyone want to talk about potential cuts?"
Person 2: "Sure, why not?"
Majority of the thread: "Yeah, no. This thread can't handle discussions involving cuts. Let's change the topic."
Person 1: "I'll be respectful. I just wanted to see what people thought about—"
Majority of the thread: "Doesn't matter. It's off-topic. Go somewhere else. No one wants to discuss this."
*Thread has several irrelevant and/or heated conversations the same day.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'd imagine so. Screwed out of the base game because he came to late, but Byleth was added despite coming even later, and Min Min was added despite being in the same boat as Rex. And while we're at it, let's go with my semi-joking suggestion of Nia being added over Rex just to drive the screw even further.

Imagine if we still get a XC2 character

but

it’s THE ZEKENATOR

after all Sakurai didn’t explicitly name drop Rex OR Spring Man in that interview, he just said “I’d have liked to add an ARMS and XC2 character but they were too late for base roster”

even then I still don’t think Min Min guarantees an XC2 character

 

[Perkilator]

Nintendo Fans: We want the announcement of the next Smash fighter NOW!
Nintendo: Nah, here's more Animal Crossing instead. While we're at it also Pokemon next week despite the fact nothing regarding it until November. You'll have to wait in two weeks.

BOOO! Get better material!

 

[Captain Shwampy]

https://twitter.com/SEGA_OFFICIAL/status/1306793837025619968?s=20

View attachment 286438

Potential Sega acquisition by Microsoft?

Oh boy... if this bcomes true... MS will get total 3 reps in Smash. (Banjo, Sonic, Joker)

Looks more like a hint at the next Mini M2 and SEGA may announce at TGS.
During a recent GG Micro broadcast M2 said there’d be an announcement at SEGA's TGS steam.

 

[Cosmic77]

If a new XC game comes out before the next Smash game and Rex isn't the protagonist, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If XC continues to follow the same path as Pokémon and FE, Rex's best chance at that point would probably be an Echo like Chrom. That by itself doesn't seem very likely.

 

[Dinoman96]

Question: IF Rex doesn’t become playable DLC throughout Smash’s DLC lifespan, think he’ll be the Chrom/K. Rool of Smash 6 provided he has enough enduring demand?

I can't really see that happening considering Monolith will probably have come out with XB3 with an all new protagonist at that point. We only really got Chrom because he could work as a quick easy echo of Roy.

If Rex doesn't get into this game, I'm afraid he's going in the same grave with Lyn and Gen 3/5 Pokemon.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If a new XC game comes out before the next Smash game and Rex isn't the protagonist, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If XC continues to follow the same path as Pokémon and FE, Rex's best chance at that point would probably be an Echo like Chrom. That by itself doesn't seem very likely.

I mean K. Rool was absent from the DK series since DKC3, not counting that 2008 Mario baseball game, and he made it in still

if anything though, X may get a direct sequel, so even if no XC rep happens, Elma at least has a slightly greater chance if the X sequel (which will be a direct one) happens before Smash 6. Assuming SHE’S not Ultimate DLC.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Man....whenever I boot the game back up and see Min Min on the CSS I just have the biggest dumb smile on my face, seeing her in there makes me feel things
Can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to have Layton in there as well...

Man, I wish


i wish