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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Evil Trapezium

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A little off-topic but which Smash sequel has the strongest set of first three initial newcomers in your opinion?
1. Brawl
2. Melee
3. Ultimate
4. Smash 4

Your reaction if this was Ultimate’s DLC lineup;

-Frank West & Piranha Plant (early purchase bonus for Smash Ultimate, made able to separately purchase upon release date)

Vol. 1
-Joker (Pack 1)
-Hero (Pack 2)
-Banjo-Kazooie (Pack 3)
-Euden (Pack 4)
-Terry Bogard (Pack 5)

-Byleth (early purchase bonus for Vol. 2, made able to separately purchase upon release date)

Vol. 2
-Min Min and Echo Fighter Ninjara (Pack 6)
-Sora (Pack 7)
-Crash Bandicoot (Pack 8)
-Scorbunny (Pack 9)
-Sakura Shinguji and Echo Fighter Sakura Amamiya (Pack 10)
-Bandana Dee and bonus fighter King Boo (Pack 11)
Firstly I'd find it odd why Frank West would be an early purchase character but I guess he'd be cool. Secondly, the only new characters on the list I'd be interested in would be Sora and Crash Bandicoot. Volume 1 still has Banjo & Kazooie so no complaints there.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Yeah - it isn't as bad as in Smash 4 where A) Counters were seemingly very prevalent, and B) Corrin's could one shot in certain situations (before being patched) and Bayo' Witch Time... hoo boy. The new h0t thing to talk / complain about is the "DLC t3ther". (Joker, Byleth, Min Min) or down airs being stall-and-falls (at least amongst the more competitively minded people).
Bayonetta's Witch Time is super unfortunate. Make it better and it's too powerful. Make keep it as is and it's just a free Smash Attack, and no more interesting than a normal counter.

It's interesting how the least useful moves are the ones that keep getting used. Tethers aren't nearly as bad as they were when Edge-Hogging was a thing, but they're still pretty exploitable as far as I've seen. Meanwhile I see like, 3 characters use stall n' falls competitively aside from YOLO spikes, and all three of them are zoners...Well at least we know which archetype actually benefits from them. lol

Another mechanic of contention that people have are comeback mechanics. Little Mac's K.O. Punch, Joker's Arsene, Lucario's everything, etc. I think the biggest problem with them is not that they're super powerful reversals (they can be, but aren't always this way), but they tend add stupidity to the matchup. Run away for a bit to let Arsene or Limit Break run its course, don't let Lucario or Terry hang on to their stock or they're gonna jank you, just accept that you're gonna get farted on and hope you're up a stock when it happens, and in case of Little Mac, just...don't (though this is caused by other problems).
 

CannonStreak

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Why are we comparing a spin-off to Mario's main platformers? Shouldn't we compare it to the Mario and Luigi/Paper Mario sales?
Going off of Wikipedia, Mario RPG sold about 2.1 million copies. The only Paper Mario games to sell more than that are Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star. For Mario & Luigi, Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team have sold more with Superstar Saga selling a similar amount. That's pretty good for Mario RPG despite it not even releasing in Europe and being at the end of SNES's lifespan.
Sorry, thought it wouldn’t hurt to do that. Though I didn’t really say sales for Mario RPG were bad at all, right?
 

Rie Sonomura

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You know tho

if we do get more DLC (aka the last four WoL slots after Pass 2) filled. I have a feeling it’ll be individual DLC. why make just FOUR fighters into a pass? Should be 5 minimum, and PP being the only individual so far bothers me for reasons I can’t explain

they’ll probably be from existing series, or if from a new one, they might come with music only, no stage. I think that’d be a win for all
I swear every time this thread talks about Geno, the world gets worse.

Anyway, I like Falcom, I like Estelle. I hope Estelle is a character in Fighter Pass 2.
I need to get back to streaming Trails sometime

but yeah I’d take Estelle or Rean or Adol over Geno any day imo
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I swear every time this thread talks about Geno, the world gets worse.

Anyway, I like Falcom, I like Estelle. I hope Estelle is a character in Fighter Pass 2.
Sakurai then announces Yoshua In A Dress as the Falcom rep, Estelle's just a stage cameo who baps herself on the head with her large hurty stick
 

MooMew64

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You know tho

if we do get more DLC (aka the last four WoL slots after Pass 2) filled. I have a feeling it’ll be individual DLC. why make just FOUR fighters into a pass? Should be 5 minimum, and PP being the only individual so far bothers me for reasons I can’t explain

they’ll probably be from existing series, or if from a new one, they might come with music only, no stage. I think that’d be a win for all
As much as I would love to believe this is how Octolings win, I kind of have a feeling those slots are gonna go unused.

Time will tell, though. :drshrug:
 

Cap'n Jack

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Ranking of my predictions from likeliest to least likely:

1. Geno
2. Travis Touchdown
3. Monster Hunter
4. Pokemon Rep
5. Lloyd Irving

Not really excited about any of those, or do I honestly think we’re getting those five specifically, just my rankings on who I think is most likely.
 

Banado_Boy

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A little off-topic but which Smash sequel has the strongest set of first three initial newcomers in your opinion?
Ultimate's initial three reveals felt the most powerful, but Smash 4 also had a good balance imo:
• Villager - a character idea that Sakurai admitted to scrapping in the previous Smash entry, but decided to revisit
• Mega Man - a third party gaming icon + holy nostalgia
• Wii Fit Trainer - WTF is all I could say, never saw this one coming
 

SneakyLink

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But... my MC Princess Diaries stage with Pearl as a stage element BOOYAAAAAAHHH-ing the **** out of your opponents tho 🥺
Gonna be honest, I read the part reading "Princess Diaries" and thought "that's our Disney rep?!"

Guess I really need to replay Splatoon 2 someday soon.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Gonna be honest, I read the part reading "Princess Diaries" and thought "that's our Disney rep?!"

Guess I really need to replay Splatoon 2 someday soon.
It’s also the final fest stage, so... you get to play on it regardless of if you own the Octo Expansion
 

Rural_Juror

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A little off-topic but which Smash sequel has the strongest set of first three initial newcomers in your opinion?
I'd say Melee is at the top. Bowser and Peach are huge and balance out the IC's being there (not that they're bad, they just aren't as influential)
Ultimate is next, all three characters are at least recognizable and iconic to the widest audience.
4 is third, I think those three really show how the cast of 4 was going to pan out and it has some pretty influental stuff in there.
I'd place Brawl last, mostly because the first three reveals weren't anything special. If you added Wario and Snake who were revealed at the same time, it would likely be a different story.
 
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DarthEnderX

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A little off-topic but which Smash sequel has the strongest set of first three initial newcomers in your opinion?
A bit disingenuous to include an echo fighter instead of Simon.

As is including Zero Suit for Brawl when it was still just part of regular Samus' moveset.
 

SharkLord

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Alright, here's the deal:

Every time we have a constructive and respectful conversation about Geno, a healthy litter of puppies are born.

Every time we have a spiteful, petty slapfight over Geno where neither side admits they're in the wrong and resorts to hurling insults, a puppy dies and John Wick himself breaks into your home to personally exact brutal vengeance.

Deal?
 

Swamp Sensei

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Alright, here's the deal:

Every time we have a constructive and respectful conversation about Geno, a healthy litter of puppies are born.

Every time we have a spiteful, petty slapfight over Geno where neither side admits they're in the wrong and resorts to hurling insults, a puppy dies and John Wick himself breaks into your home to personally exact brutal vengeance.

Deal?
Why would I agree to something that has a puppy most likely die?
 

volbound1700

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To add to this, too many fans seem convinced we're getting third party characters from here on out, despite the most recent trend being towards first party characters. I feel like too many people(I've spent time in the Papa Genos discord and have gotten turned off from there) don't actually play the game seriously, so they're only concerned with what game the character is from and not how they function and I think that is a mistake.
I think we will get at least 2 more first parties. My bet is a Pokémon and then either Rex or a LOZ BOTW2 character.
 

SKX31

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A little off-topic but which Smash sequel has the strongest set of first three initial newcomers in your opinion?
Now that's a very interesting question indeed.

The nostalgic part of me says Brawl (partly because I wasn't aware of Melee's E3 2001 presentation when it happened - I was 10 at the time Melee's E3 presentation happened, and 11 when Melee released here in EU. I did catch Brawl's E3 2006 trailer though when it released), but upon reflection Melee wins.

* Peach and Bowser were obvious inclusions at the time - they were two of the biggest Nintendo could've gone for period. Ice Climbers was a giant ?, but Sakurai's initial design of them being a two-in-one-fighter helped their cause. Icies did become infamous for their chaingrabbing, but that was years down the road and within the competitive scene. Wobbles did lend his name to one of Icies' more infamous tricks - but he himself is a legitimately great IC player (reaching 2nd at EVO 2013). Bowser did struggle the first few games, but 4 and especially Ultimate finally allowed him to find his footing. Peach's been a consistent presence - the float mechanic has kept her unique, and competitive players like Armada have helped to keep her in the limelight. Strongest trio for me.

* Meta Knight and Pit opened Brawl strongly, and ZSS did show Sakurai's intent of letting Final Smashes have an effect on gameplay. The three (and Wario) did get overshadowed by "Snake? Snake?! SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!" but otherwise, there were not many complaints. Although ZSS did inadvertedly sow the seeds of many angry Metroid fans and helped spark the Ridley fanbase (not helped by the fact that ZSS turned out to be high-tier in Brawl - higher than regular Samus - thanks to her dash attack chaining and mixups all over the place). Pit was mostly remembered for "HIYAYAYAYA!" (although Brawl did help Pit get Kid Icarus Uprising, so Brawl marked a positive turning point for him) but then... we have :metaknight:. Mr. Peak Brawl. One of the most infamous Smash characters period, and arguably the character that settled the "whether tiers exist or not" debates; by confirming that he was so absurdly powerful (so many quick attacks) that he couldn't be ignored. Upon further reflection, third.

* Villager was, looking back, the kind of character one would expect to open up 4. AC has been a steady system seller by that point. Not the hypest reveal for me personally, but eh. Mega Man was, however, the big-attention getter at the time, and it showed. While WFT was mostly met by "Wuh - huh?" Perhaps the weakest trio overall from a purely "hype" standpoint, Still, a pretty good starting point. And although the trio did not get that much time in the competitive spotlight during 4's lifespan, they also didn't get the infamous reputation that later additions in 4 would get. While both Villager and WFT had infamous custom moveset combos that could slow games down to a crawl, that was more because Custom Moves was firmly in the "Really neat idea, would've sorely needed more time in the oven and balancing." And 4's trio ranks... fourth, although it's not a bad trio by any stretch.

* And so, Ultimate. Inkling's, like Villager, the obvious get. Splatoon had done really well on the Wii U by the time selection took place, and 2 solidified that. It's only with the E3 2018 presentation that things reached a fever pitch. Not just "Everyone's Here!" - Daisy's inclusion and the new moniker "Echo Fighter" was a very smart move since it turned a dislike concept (clones) and made them much more palatable. Then, Ridley. To go back to ZSS' inclusion back in Brawl, that one had a major effect on Ridley's demand (and in the interim ZSS had become one of the more infamous Sm4sh characters due to her ladder combos). And Ridley's reveal was pretty much the moment when 12 years of built up frustration amongst some burst. It was at hype reveal for me personally, since Nintendo was going all in with the first parties.

* As for the trio's post-release fortunes... On one hand, Inkling's seen quite a lot of success at the competitive level, but the squid's seen some worsening fortunes the last year due to her weaknesses becoming a bit more apparent. Still, Inkling's rated highly overall. Daisy's reputation has soured since Nintendo chose to enforce her as a total clone (which soured people overall on Echoes, a lot of missed potential). Ridley's been in the background of the competitive scene due to his weaknesses being a tad too exploitable, although he still sees high-level play. Sill, second strongest for me personally.

What I'm meaning to say is: Reception at the time of respective release is different from now, especially from a competitive lens.
 
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D

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Damn, all of you are very smart about Smash speculation.

Are you this good in school or college, if you are in that?
 

Gribbo

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Alright, here's the deal:

Every time we have a constructive and respectful conversation about Geno, a healthy litter of puppies are born.

Every time we have a spiteful, petty slapfight over Geno where neither side admits they're in the wrong and resorts to hurling insults, a puppy dies and John Wick himself breaks into your home to personally exact brutal vengeance.

Deal?
Do you really want to cause the extinction of puppies?
 

volbound1700

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I lived through Brawl era and it had the most hyped induced reveal IMO with Ultimate a very close second. Ultimate's E3 and August 8th Trailers were amazing. However, the Final Presentation was a letdown with the weaker solo mode vs. Brawl and two weaker character reveals plus Piranhha Plant.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Alright, here's the deal:

Every time we have a constructive and respectful conversation about Geno, a healthy litter of puppies are born.

Every time we have a spiteful, petty slapfight over Geno where neither side admits they're in the wrong and resorts to hurling insults, a puppy dies and John Wick himself breaks into your home to personally exact brutal vengeance.

Deal?
Let's never get heated about Geno ever again, please.
 

Dinoman96

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To add to this, too many fans seem convinced we're getting third party characters from here on out, despite the most recent trend being towards first party characters. I feel like too many people(I've spent time in the Papa Genos discord and have gotten turned off from there) don't actually play the game seriously, so they're only concerned with what game the character is from and not how they function and I think that is a mistake.
But what first party characters do you think Nintendo would actually add as DLC?

All I can think of is Rex and a Pokemon.
 

True Blue Warrior

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If we are talking about recent Switch era Nintendo characters, the only one left with a plausible chance may be Rex since his Mii Costume was decided on long before the second pass was. Pokemon is most likely not getting a newcomer as DLC.

To be honest, I’m not so sure that I would agree that suddenly 1st parties are likely because we got Byleth and Min Min, of all 1st party picks.

There’s so much more to the topic that individual characters might benefit from certain things, whiles others either don’t seem to fit the Fighter Pass model in the same way, 1st or 3rd party, or may not line up in the same way.

Would talk more but I’m about to teach!
If there were loads of “hype” third-party picks in this pass, it wouldn’t really make that much sense to not start the pass with one of them instead of an ARMS character from a marketing perspective. Min Min is clearly meant to be one of the highlights of this pass.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Assuming Pokemon doesn't occur in November, the way I could see the next 3 weeks.

This week: Animal Crossing
Next week: Pokemon
Week after: Smash

The week after would still coincide with amiibo theory.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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WAGH... I... I think I hate Animal Crossing
If you're jealous, just think of how almost all of it is just adding what are normally base game features back into the game, and that the base game of Animal Crossing: New Horizons was actually pretty bare. That should help.

If there were loads of “hype” third-party picks in this pass, it wouldn’t really make that much sense to not start the pass with one of them instead of an ARMS character from a marketing perspective. Min Min is clearly meant to be one of the highlights of this pass.
You say that like Ninendo picks the order with any sort of rhyme or reason. lol
 
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