Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[CureParfait]

Alright, I don't know how to download the image used (I saw it on the Geno thread), but I wanted to bring up the "Smash Bros. Monkey Paw" game! Here's how it works: your most wanted character gets added. HOWEVER, so does your least wanted character. Do you accept the deal? If so, who's getting added?

Yes I would totally accept that deal since it is very worth it, the characters added for me are Darkrai and Adachi.

 

[Idon]

I'd love to see a Demonica Mii Gunner (especially if it was revealed with an SMT character)
View attachment 282929

On the other hand, we could get the Jack Frost version:

Mr. Demonee-Ho

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd love to see the Primids from Brawl's Subspace Emissary come back as Mii Costumes. You could even have three different versions for the Brawler, Swordfighter, and Gunner Miis.

WHY IS THIS NOT A THING!!!

 

[ShrimpScampi]

Speaking of Mii costumes, what characters would you like to see as a "premium" Mii costume? (no obvious troll picks or characters that have a reasonable amount of support for being playable, please - I don't want to see people saying things like "I'd pick Geno because I want to make his fans upset" or thinly-veiled excuses for bashing a character, or saying that they won't be included, or that a Mii costume would be the closest that they'd ever get to being playable)

I'd go with Emil from Nier and Nier Automata.

I think his design would work well for being a Mii Swordfighter costume (with the giant head that Yoko Taro wears as the mask, and using his staff as a sword like what Viridi does), and even if 2B can't make it in for Good Boys And Girls reasons (though they could change her design a little bit like female Corrin's if need be), we could still get at least one song from Nier Automata in the game.

I think an Emil head could work even as a standalone hat (although if they did that, they could just as easily call it a Yoko Taro Mii costume lol). Actually, if there is any NieR: Automata content in Smash, I feel like Emil is a must-have.

As for who I'd like to see as a premium Mii costume, Dust from Dust: An Elysian Tail would be a neat choice. While his game isn't really new anymore, I remember it being a semi-big deal at the time it was released, and I have fond memories of when I played it.

Plus his design is rather distinct and would work well as a Swordfighter.

 

[Goombaic]

Speaking of Mii costumes, what characters would you like to see as a "premium" Mii costume? (no obvious troll picks or characters that have a reasonable amount of support for being playable, please - I don't want to see people saying things like "I'd pick Geno because I want to make his fans upset" or thinly-veiled excuses for bashing a character, or saying that they won't be included, or that a Mii costume would be the closest that they'd ever get to being playable)

I'd go with Emil from Nier and Nier Automata.

I think his design would work well for being a Mii Swordfighter costume (with the giant head that Yoko Taro wears as the mask, and using his staff as a sword like what Viridi does), and even if 2B can't make it in for Good Boys And Girls reasons (though they could change her design a little bit like female Corrin's if need be), we could still get at least one song from Nier Automata in the game.

...though in a bit of a Monkey's Paw situation, it would probably be this.

Most wanted for each type:

Spoiler: Brawler

Spoiler: Gunner

Spoiler: Swordfighter

My thoughts on other possibilities (including non-videogame characters) from months ago:

Made a personal tier list ranking possible Mii costumes. Rankings based on how much I'd like the Mii costume and how much I'd like the possible track they could bring with them (not that they have to have one, just brainstorming here).

S-Tier (Nearly as good as being an actual fighter): Palette Swap Ninjas (Mortal Kombat Theme), Ball Guy (SwSh Gym Battle), Monokuma (DANGANRONPA Remix), Wolverine
A-Tier (Amazing): Master Chief (Halo), Eiscue Hat, Nightmare, Dragonborn (Skyrim Theme), Cadence (Disco Descent w/Shopkeeper), Darth Vader (Imperial March)
B-Tier (Pretty good): Creeper Hat, Hat Kid (Your Contract Has Expired), Remade Geno (Beware the Forest's Mushrooms), Primid, Hatty Hattington (Battleblock Medley), Johnny Gat Mascot, Zeke, Sir Arthur
C-Tier (Alright, not too exciting): Shiren the Wanderer, Hollow Knight Hat, Ori, Skullomania, Castle Crasher Knight, Joe Musashi, Ryu Hayabusa, Strider Hiryu, Captain Rainbow
D-Tier (Meh): Steve (Sweden), Wonder Red, Viewtiful Joe, Red Bird Hat, Masked Man
F-Tier (I'd rather not): Hollow Knight, Freddy Fazbear
Wolverine and Darth Vader are there because I'd be so down with Mii Costumes for them even though they're never happening and S and A tier looked a bit empty compared to the other categories.

 

[SharkLord]

Speaking of Mii costumes, what characters would you like to see as a "premium" Mii costume? (no obvious troll picks or characters that have a reasonable amount of support for being playable, please - I don't want to see people saying things like "I'd pick Geno because I want to make his fans upset" or thinly-veiled excuses for bashing a character, or saying that they won't be included, or that a Mii costume would be the closest that they'd ever get to being playable)

I'd go with Emil from Nier and Nier Automata.

I think his design would work well for being a Mii Swordfighter costume (with the giant head that Yoko Taro wears as the mask, and using his staff as a sword like what Viridi does), and even if 2B can't make it in for Good Boys And Girls reasons (though they could change her design a little bit like female Corrin's if need be), we could still get at least one song from Nier Automata in the game.

...though in a bit of a Monkey's Paw situation, it would probably be this.

The Knight, Shovel Knight, and Hat Kid as Swordfighters, plus Madeline as a Brawler.
Also, Yukkuri Reimu full-head hat. I'm dead ****ing serious.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I think an Emil head could work even as a standalone hat (although if they did that, they could just as easily call it a Yoko Taro Mii costume lol). Actually, if there is any NieR: Automata content in Smash, I feel like Emil is a must-have.

As for who I'd like to see as a premium Mii costume, Dust from Dust: An Elysian Tail would be a neat choice. While his game isn't really new anymore, I remember it being a semi-big deal at the time it was released, and I have fond memories of when I played it.

Plus his design is rather distinct and would work well as a Swordfighter.

why have that when we can have actual Muramasa?

 

[SKX31]

Speaking of Mii costumes, what characters would you like to see as a "premium" Mii costume?

Okay, so (limiting myself to one per company):

: Tifa (FF VII) or Cody (Final Fight)
: Arbiter (Halo) or Marisa (Touhou)
: Juggernaut (Dota 2) or Yoshimitsu (Tekken... SC... whenever.)

 

[cashregister9]

Yukkuri Reimu full-head hat. I'm dead ****ing serious.

Only cowards would say it as a joke

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Speaking of Mii costumes, what characters would you like to see as a "premium" Mii costume? (no obvious troll picks or characters that have a reasonable amount of support for being playable, please - I don't want to see people saying things like "I'd pick Geno because I want to make his fans upset" or thinly-veiled excuses for bashing a character, or saying that they won't be included, or that a Mii costume would be the closest that they'd ever get to being playable)

I'd go with Emil from Nier and Nier Automata.

I think his design would work well for being a Mii Swordfighter costume (with the giant head that Yoko Taro wears as the mask, and using his staff as a sword like what Viridi does), and even if 2B can't make it in for Good Boys And Girls reasons (though they could change her design a little bit like female Corrin's if need be), we could still get at least one song from Nier Automata in the game.

...though in a bit of a Monkey's Paw situation, it would probably be this.

Assuming they're not playable, I'd like Scorpion and Sub-Zero from Mortal kombat as a brawler and Doom slayer for the gunner.

 

[Deleted member]

The perfect mii costume:

Spoiler

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

NoA sure loves Dunban. And ****posting.

🤔 pic.twitter.com/0DagxL6ocF

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) August 20, 2020

Who doesn't love Dunban?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

As for who I'd like to see as a premium Mii costume, Dust from Dust: An Elysian Tail would be a neat choice. While his game isn't really new anymore, I remember it being a semi-big deal at the time it was released, and I have fond memories of when I played it.

Plus his design is rather distinct and would work well as a Swordfighter.

Fun fact: Dust has the same voice actor as Felix in Three Houses.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'd like to see Shin Megami Tensei Mii Costumes, especially if it gets a fighter. I'd say all of the protagonists would make for cool Mii Costumes, but Demi-Fiend, Flynn, and Strange Journey guy would work best imo.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Sakurai is always raising the bar with how hype character reveals can be. From Sonic/Snake in Brawl, to Cloud in Smash 4. Which character would be internet-breaking upon reveal for Ultimate, one that would make people realize "holy ****, the floodgates have opened and now there are even more crazy possibilities for Smash!"

Not counting 4th parties, or characters already introduced in Ultimate.

 

[Speed Weed]

Sakurai is always raising the bar with how hype character reveals can be. From Sonic/Snake in Brawl, to Cloud in Smash 4. Which character would be internet-breaking upon reveal for Ultimate, one that would make people realize "holy ****, the floodgates have opened and now there are even more crazy possibilities for Smash!"

Not counting 4th parties, or characters already introduced in Ultimate.

hmmmmmmmmm i'd say probably master chief

 

[SharkLord]

Sakurai is always raising the bar with how hype character reveals can be. From Sonic/Snake in Brawl, to Cloud in Smash 4. Which character would be internet-breaking upon reveal for Ultimate, one that would make people realize "holy ****, the floodgates have opened and now there are even more crazy possibilities for Smash!"

Not counting 4th parties, or characters already introduced in Ultimate.

My first thought is Master Chief, for being a direct console competitor with extremely little relations to Nintendo. I'd also bring in Kratos, but Sony more than likely won't want to play ball. I'd also list Sora or Geralt, who are technically fourth-party but could potentially have a loophole out of there, but assuming we're going "No fourth-parties" I'm not gonna risk it.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Sakurai is always raising the bar with how hype character reveals can be. From Sonic/Snake in Brawl, to Cloud in Smash 4. Which character would be internet-breaking upon reveal for Ultimate, one that would make people realize "holy ****, the floodgates have opened and now there are even more crazy possibilities for Smash!"

Not counting 4th parties, or characters already introduced in Ultimate.

Characters like Snake, Sonic and Cloud broke so many barriers it's really hard to go beyond and still shock people with the options we realistically got. That being said, I'm gonna have to give my vote to Master Chief. The face of a current rival's console with only cameo appearances on Nintendo systems. If he got in, the internet would definitely go 'splodey. Banjo softened the unexpectedness of the possibility a little bit, but still it'd be nuts.

 

[SKX31]

Sakurai is always raising the bar with how hype character reveals can be. From Sonic/Snake in Brawl, to Cloud in Smash 4. Which character would be internet-breaking upon reveal for Ultimate, one that would make people realize "holy ****, the floodgates have opened and now there are even more crazy possibilities for Smash!"

Not counting 4th parties, or characters already introduced in Ultimate.

The primary one IMHO is Chief due to the rivalry Nintendo had with Microsoft. Kratos would count if he had more of a chance.

One could argue characters like Crash, Lara Croft, etc. from the PS1 era, albeit Cloud was the first amongst them. And on the computer front, I'd say that the closest to "Floodgates" would be Gordon / any other Valve character because's they'd practically "open the floodgates" re: Steam and LoL because that's a genre that has had few solid connections with Nintendo (at least until Pokemon Unite happened). The MOBAs that have been on the Switch so far are IIRC SMITE and Arena of Valor - and the latter is shut down.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Master Chief would probably be my choice.

Getting Banjo-Kazooie is one thing, But getting the official mascot of Microsoft's Xbox brand is definitely making a really big statement.

Mario fighting Master Chief would go down as another legendary moment in gaming history just like how Sonic the Hedgehog was back in Brawl.

 

[SharkLord]

Snake, Sonic and Cloud broke so many barriers it's really hard to go beyond and still shock people. That being said, I'm gonna have to give my vote to Master Chief. The face of a current rival's console with only cameo appearances on Nintendo systems. If he got in, the internet would definitely go 'splodey. Banjo softened the unexpectedness of the possibility a little bit, but still It'd be nuts.

Indeed. Snake softened the blow for Sonic by proving third-parties were possible. Was the internet any less hyped in a noticeable way?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The primary one IMHO is Chief due to the rivalry Nintendo had with Microsoft. Kratos would count if he had more of a chance.

One could argue characters like Crash, Lara Croft, etc. from the PS1 era, albeit Cloud was the first amongst them. And on the computer front, I'd say that the closest to "Floodgates" would be Gordon / any other Valve character because's they'd practically "open the floodgates" re: Steam and LoL because that's a genre that has had few solid connections with Nintendo (at least until Pokemon Unite happened). The MOBAs that have been on the Switch so far are IIRC SMITE and Arena of Valor - and the latter is shut down.

I thought Joker was that character

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Only cowards would say it as a joke

I want my red bean paste manju in smash

 

[7NATOR]

I Gotta ask, because I really wasn't in Smash Speculation until Smash 4 DLC Ended

Why was Cloud seen as so Impossible before he got in? Snake is a Popular Playstation based character like Cloud and his Appearance in this game is based of the PlayStation games. Is it because it was stated Kojima asked for Snake that seperated Snake from other Playstation based characters? was Square seen as unlikely to want to be involved in Smash?

 

[Perkilator]

I Gotta ask, because I really wasn't in Smash Speculation until Smash 4 DLC Ended

Why was Cloud seen as so Impossible before he got in? Snake is a Popular Playstation based character like Cloud and his Appearance in this game is based of the PlayStation games. Is it because it was stated Kojima asked for Snake that seperated Snake from other Playstation based characters? was Square seen as unlikely to want to be involved in Smash?

Moreso because FF is legal hell.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sakurai is always raising the bar with how hype character reveals can be. From Sonic/Snake in Brawl, to Cloud in Smash 4. Which character would be internet-breaking upon reveal for Ultimate, one that would make people realize "holy ****, the floodgates have opened and now there are even more crazy possibilities for Smash!"

Not counting 4th parties, or characters already introduced in Ultimate.

I'd say the only ones left are Master Chief, a Sony character, and maybe Sora and Gordon Freeman.

I Gotta ask, because I really wasn't in Smash Speculation until Smash 4 DLC Ended

Why was Cloud seen as so Impossible before he got in? Snake is a Popular Playstation based character like Cloud and his Appearance in this game is based of the PlayStation games. Is it because it was stated Kojima asked for Snake that seperated Snake from other Playstation based characters? was Square seen as unlikely to want to be involved in Smash?

It's a combination of factors. One would be that we knew Kojima had asked for Snake, whereas there was nothing of the sort for Nomura and Cloud. But the main thing was that Snake still had his big games on Nintendo consoles, with the original Metal Gear having an NES port, Metal Gear Solid 1 had the Twin Snakes on GameCube and MGS3 was on 3DS. In contrast, FF7 had never been on a Nintendo console at the time (and in fact had been the reason Square Enix switched to developing for the PS1, which led to a notorious falling out between Nintendo and SE that took years to heal).

 

[Lamperouge]

Alright, I don't know how to download the image used (I saw it on the Geno thread), but I wanted to bring up the "Smash Bros. Monkey Paw" game! Here's how it works: your most wanted character gets added. HOWEVER, so does your least wanted character. Do you accept the deal? If so, who's getting added?

I'll gladly stomach Sora if it means that I can have Rex.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Sakurai is always raising the bar with how hype character reveals can be. From Sonic/Snake in Brawl, to Cloud in Smash 4. Which character would be internet-breaking upon reveal for Ultimate, one that would make people realize "holy ****, the floodgates have opened and now there are even more crazy possibilities for Smash!"

Not counting 4th parties, or characters already introduced in Ultimate.

outside of Master Chief and a Sony character, a Rockstar Games protagonist would be this with Scorpion being a close 2nd.

I Gotta ask, because I really wasn't in Smash Speculation until Smash 4 DLC Ended

Why was Cloud seen as so Impossible before he got in? Snake is a Popular Playstation based character like Cloud and his Appearance in this game is based of the PlayStation games. Is it because it was stated Kojima asked for Snake that seperated Snake from other Playstation based characters? was Square seen as unlikely to want to be involved in Smash?

I wasn't in smash 4 speculation but i guess it's because Cloud was barely brought up in speculation, his main game wasn't on a Nintendo console at the time but only spinoffs(Theatrhythm Final Fantasy for example) and many people thought Square-Enix would be a legal pain.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Moreso because FF is legal hell.

Smash fans being concerned about such a thing didn't happen until after Cloud was released with two songs and no English voice. I'd say it was FF7's lack of a Nintendo release until the Switch port.

 

[N3ON]

The main reason people rejected Cloud is because characters that didn't have strong ties to Nintendo weren't thought to be plausible additions. It wasn't just Cloud, it was every character that lacked a strong tie to Nintendo. But characters with strong ties to Sony or MS, such as Cloud, were even more relegated to the periphery. People thought that if FF was to get a character, it would probably be Black Mage.

People also believed Square to be hyper-protective of their IP, but that was more an ancillary concern to the bigger one.

And Snake was only seen as an exception due to the statement wherein Sakurai said Kojima "practically begged" for his inclusion, which people reasoned wouldn't happen with another character. When Ryu was leaked, people were trying to justify his inclusion by stressing the success of the SNES port of SFII. Because that's what the mindset was at the time, and had been since third-parties became a thing.

Cloud was the one who prompted the mentality to shift, but it came at the cost of the character being, initially, pretty divisive.

 

[SharkLord]

The main reason people rejected Cloud is because characters that didn't have strong ties to Nintendo weren't thought to be plausible additions. It wasn't just Cloud, it was every character that lacked a strong tie to Nintendo. But characters with strong ties to Sony or MS, such as Cloud, were even more relegated to the periphery. People thought that if FF was to get a character, it would probably be Black Mage.

People also believed Square to be hyper-protective of their IP, but that was more an ancillary concern to the bigger one.

And Snake was only seen as an exception due to the statement wherein Sakurai said Kojima "practically begged" for his inclusion, which people reasoned wouldn't happen with another character. When Ryu was leaked, people were trying to justify his inclusion by stressing the success of the SNES port of SFII. Because that's what the mindset was at the time, and had been since third-parties became a thing.

Cloud was the one who prompted the mentality to shift, but it came at the cost of the character being, initially, pretty divisive.

Cut to now, and now we want Crash, Dante, and %$#@ing Master Chief. If we transported a Brawl/4-era speculator to now, it would be a completely different fandom to them.

 

[N3ON]

Cut to now, and now we want Crash, Dante, and %$#@ing Master Chief. If we transported a Brawl/4-era speculator to now, it would be a completely different fandom to them.

Yeah the suggestions people are sincere about now would really get you ridiculed back in the day.

 

[7NATOR]

I see Now. That's probably why Black Mage was in SSF2, because I guess he was really popular in Speculation as the FF character before Cloud got in.

Well I'm glad for the shift from Just nintendo Oriented 3rd Partys (And exceptions) to pretty much any reasonable video game character in Speculation

The one thing I'm wondering is if we will see another shift though. I Know Sony is seen as not feasible due to them being more more of a Direct Rival to Nintendo (especially compared to Microsoft), and Scorpion/Mortal Kombat probably isn't seen as unfeasible due to the whole Japan thing. There's probably also Geralt who falls in that grey area with the whole "Originate from a Video game" rule

Though I'm gonna be honest with you guys, If people are willing to entertain Reimu as an Option despite her Presence in the West being minimal, I don't see why Scorpion is seen as unfeasible. I can get Sony being seen as unreasonable as of right now, and Geralt is debatebale, But Scorpion is pretty much inverse Reimu, and considering Smash has sold better in the West than the East for awhile now, and we've had Little Mac and Ridley added (even though they are Nintendo Characters), so I don't see Scorpion in the same realm as Sony or Geralt. I also don't know if chief would be that Shocking, I see him alot in prediction list these days

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

I see Now. That's probably why Black Mage was in SSF2, because I guess he was really popular in Speculation as the FF character before Cloud got in.

Well I'm glad for the shift from Just nintendo Oriented 3rd Partys (And exceptions) to pretty much any reasonable video game character in Speculation

The one thing I'm wondering is if we will see another shift though. I Know Sony is seen as not feasible due to them being more more of a Direct Rival to Nintendo (especially compared to Microsoft), and Scorpion/Mortal Kombat probably isn't seen as unfeasible due to the whole Japan thing. There's probably also Geralt who falls in that grey area with the whole "Originate from a Video game" rule

Though I'm gonna be honest with you guys, If people are willing to entertain Reimu as an Option despite her Presence in the West being minimal, I don't see why Scorpion is seen as unfeasible. I can get Sony being seen as unreasonable as of right now, and Geralt is debatebale, But Scorpion is pretty much inverse Reimu, and considering Smash has sold better in the West than the East for awhile now, and we've had Little Mac and Ridley added (even though they are Nintendo Characters), so I don't see Scorpion in the same realm as Sony or Geralt. I also don't know if chief would be that Shocking, I see him alot in prediction list these days

While the Western market is obviously a major factor for sales, Smash is a game made by Japanese developers first and foremost for a Japanese audience. There are only 4 characters in Smash created by non-Japanese developers (), and all 4 were made for a game Nintendo was publishing themselves. That's not to say Western-created third parties are impossible, but I advise folks to keep their expectations in check.

Stuff like Rayman, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, Shovel Knight, Undertale, Shantae, Cuphead, and more are all in the game... but none of them got full playable characters. It's hard not to start seeing that as a pattern - one that is not necessarily unbreakable, but a pattern nonetheless.

 

[MooMew64]

I'd argue people clung to the Nintendo ties argument until Joker. Cloud was eventually accepted by the Nintendo Ties crowd when spin-offs and Kingdom Hearts were brought up. It also helped that FF7 then later came to the Switch.

Joker, however, shattered the argument completely, especially when we're this far after the reveal and Sega and Atlus have zero plans to port Persona 5 to Switch ATM. While Joker had a single appearance on Nintendo hardware thanks to Persona Q 2, it certainly didn't fit the mold that the character needed to fit this archetype of a "Nintendo All-Star" in order to be eligible.

 

[SharkLord]

I see Now. That's probably why Black Mage was in SSF2, because I guess he was really popular in Speculation as the FF character before Cloud got in.

Well I'm glad for the shift from Just nintendo Oriented 3rd Partys (And exceptions) to pretty much any reasonable video game character in Speculation

The one thing I'm wondering is if we will see another shift though. I Know Sony is seen as not feasible due to them being more more of a Direct Rival to Nintendo (especially compared to Microsoft), and Scorpion/Mortal Kombat probably isn't seen as unfeasible due to the whole Japan thing. There's probably also Geralt who falls in that grey area with the whole "Originate from a Video game" rule

Though I'm gonna be honest with you guys, If people are willing to entertain Reimu as an Option despite her Presence in the West being minimal, I don't see why Scorpion is seen as unfeasible. I can get Sony being seen as unreasonable as of right now, and Geralt is debatebale, But Scorpion is pretty much inverse Reimu, and considering Smash has sold better in the West than the East for awhile now, and we've had Little Mac and Ridley added (even though they are Nintendo Characters), so I don't see Scorpion in the same realm as Sony or Geralt. I also don't know if chief would be that Shocking, I see him alot in prediction list these days

...Not exactly. Mortal Kombat hasn't had many official translations, and more importantly, the translations it's had aren't recent.

Touhou, on the other hand, has 12 of it's 30 games on Steam. While the majority of those games are left untranslated, that's only because the fans will just create their own translation in a couple days, which arguably is a point for Reimu-If the fans are dedicated enough that ZUN doesn't even need to translate the games, surely there's a Western market for Reimu. In addition, these ports have happened recently, ever since 2015 (Though they didn't hit Steam until 2017). It's not just for the games either; Forbidden Scrollery has gotten an official translation in 2017 as well.

In addition, Mortal Kombat is owned by a large Western company, while Touhou is owned by just one guy in Japan who's probably one of the most lax game makers there is. ZUN and Ed Boon both want their creations in Smash, but the road from ZUN to Nintendo is much shorter than Ed's.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah the suggestions people are sincere about now would really get you ridiculed back in the day.

Of course, we do have people like me doubting that they're trying to top Ryu and Cloud being part of Smash 4's DLC. I am willing to discuss plenty of third-party characters though as long as it's actually about the characters and not "They HAVE to be making Cloud's reveal look like Corrin's with every remaining FP2 character! I refuse to accept any other idea!"

 

[Perkilator]

I'll gladly stomach Sora if it means that I can have Rex.

Joke's on you; in that case, I get character I want AND one I'd be fine with!

Alright, I don't know how to download the image used (I saw it on the Geno thread), but I wanted to bring up the "Smash Bros. Monkey Paw" game! Here's how it works: your most wanted character gets added. HOWEVER, so does your least wanted character. Do you accept the deal? If so, who's getting added?

As long as Assist Trophy fans are happy...at least I got Sora.

 

[N3ON]

I see Now. That's probably why Black Mage was in SSF2, because I guess he was really popular in Speculation as the FF character before Cloud got in.

Well I'm glad for the shift from Just nintendo Oriented 3rd Partys (And exceptions) to pretty much any reasonable video game character in Speculation

The one thing I'm wondering is if we will see another shift though. I Know Sony is seen as not feasible due to them being more more of a Direct Rival to Nintendo (especially compared to Microsoft), and Scorpion/Mortal Kombat probably isn't seen as unfeasible due to the whole Japan thing. There's probably also Geralt who falls in that grey area with the whole "Originate from a Video game" rule

Though I'm gonna be honest with you guys, If people are willing to entertain Reimu as an Option despite her Presence in the West being minimal, I don't see why Scorpion is seen as unfeasible. I can get Sony being seen as unreasonable as of right now, and Geralt is debatebale, But Scorpion is pretty much inverse Reimu, and considering Smash has sold better in the West than the East for awhile now, and we've had Little Mac and Ridley added (even though they are Nintendo Characters), so I don't see Scorpion in the same realm as Sony or Geralt. I also don't know if chief would be that Shocking, I see him alot in prediction list these days

Well there wasn't really ever some super requested FF character, it was just thought that if we were to get one, it'd probably be Black Mage. I would guess he's in SSF2 just because they like him. I mean that game's not picky, Goku's in there.

While the Western market is obviously a major factor for sales, Smash is a game made by Japanese developers first and foremost for a Japanese audience. There are only 4 characters in Smash created by non-Japanese developers (), and all 4 were made for a game Nintendo was publishing themselves. That's not to say Western-created third parties are impossible, but I advise folks to keep their expectations in check.

Stuff like Rayman, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, Shovel Knight, Undertale, Shantae, Cuphead, and more are all in the game... but none of them got full playable characters. It's hard not to start seeing that as a pattern - one that is not necessarily unbreakable, but a pattern nonetheless.

Yeah this is currently true, but if the current discussion shows anything, it's that mentalities like this often prove untenable.

I'd argue people clung to the Nintendo ties argument until Joker. Cloud was eventually accepted by the Nintendo Ties crowd when spin-offs and Kingdom Hearts were brought up. It also helped that FF7 then later came to the Switch.

Joker, however, shattered the argument completely, especially when we're this far after the reveal and Sega and Atlus have zero plans to port Persona 5 to Switch ATM. While Joker had a single appearance on Nintendo hardware thanks to Persona Q 2, it certainly didn't fit the mold that the character needed to fit this archetype of a "Nintendo All-Star" in order to be eligible.

What Joker did was more dispel the idea that the character had to be some huge icon. He basically brought the pool of candidates down from the likes of what we got in Smash 4, and helped open the gates to the current open-ended nebulousness of possibilities.

Though the idea that ties were important didn't totally die down after Cloud, just like how some people are still arguing in vain about who is and isn't an "icon". But Cloud was the watershed in the overall sea change.

 

[Aetheri]

It's interesting seeing the shift in speculation based on the inclusion of certain characters at their time. Think about how the floodgates have opened with each of these characters being added to Smash.
-third parties
-ties to Nintendo
-"rival" companies

Of course the possibilities are getting more and more extreme, but we are pretty much at the point where the only true limitation is 'video game characters only' but at this point (don't get me wrong I'm not saying we're getting Goku or anything) I wouldn't even be surprised if even that was busted.