Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[snowgolem]

All DLC characters, regardless of who they are, will naturally sell a fair amount on their own, right? What is something Nintendo/Sakurai could do that would make a DLC character bomb with poor sales?

inb4 the “make it fire emblem” replies
they could make it an echo fighter, but that’s unrealistic
they could actually revamp and give Lucas a rhythm moveset, so only the chads buy it while the rest think it’s barely different

 

[Idon]

First it has actually appeared in Japan during the days of the Arcade era (MK1-Trilogy)

But also, Yeah I know about the Japan thing and such. I still think Scorpion would get in in Spite of that. I know that fact his holding him back, but I still think he has other qualities that would allow him to still appear in Smash

We'll see though

No one is disagreeing with you on the "he's possible" angle.

We're all just confused about how he's the one you're most confident in. Like, out of every single character that drifts into and out of speculation, this is the most bizarre expectation I've seen yet.

All DLC characters, regardless of who they are, will naturally sell a fair amount on their own, right? What is something Nintendo/Sakurai could do that would make a DLC character bomb with poor sales?

"Introducing... MII WIZARD!"

 

[SneakyLink]

All DLC characters, regardless of who they are, will naturally sell a fair amount on their own, right? What is something Nintendo/Sakurai could do that would make a DLC character bomb with poor sales?

Well, they could try and make it someone super obscure, even to the general public.

Like Otto Matic, who despite having the entire deck of cards stacked against him, is still one of my most wanted characters.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

we didn't even get heckin HEDLOK, the "true final boss". Max Brass is just the "easy mode" final boss

Perhaps a dumb question, but is there even a clean, full render of Hedlok they could've used? (A publicly released one, anyway.)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

All DLC characters, regardless of who they are, will naturally sell a fair amount on their own, right? What is something Nintendo/Sakurai could do that would make a DLC character bomb with poor sales?

I can't really think of anything. It'd have to be someone everyone (not just the Smash community) really doesn't like, and the only thing I can think of that even comes close is the Rabbids, but they're also so ridiculous that a ton of people would be into it anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

"Introducing... MII WIZARD!"

NGl I kinda unironically would buy that. Brawler, Gunner, and Swordfighter isn’t enough variety for me, and have kinda gotten old

 

[Idon]

NGl I kinda unironically would buy that. Brawler, Gunner, and Swordfighter isn’t enough variety for me, and have kinda gotten old

If we were going to go for a wizard, I have a LONG list of characters I would prefer for them to invest in above another mii.
Granted, I despise the miis we already got as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Introducing... MII WIZARD!"

Oh my goodness you're right. The world would not be able to handle the new Mii type's name breaking the current naming conventions. It would be the greatest disturbance in the force since Regirock, Registeel, and Regice.

EDIT: I'm only half kidding. Calling it the Mii Wizard instead of the Mii Caster would bug me to no end.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Granted, I despise the miis we already got as well.

Why's that?

 

[cashregister9]

All DLC characters, regardless of who they are, will naturally sell a fair amount on their own, right? What is something Nintendo/Sakurai could do that would make a DLC character bomb with poor sales?

A non videogame character but not someone cool like Goku or Spiderman someone like, Ninja fortnite or The Creeper from Scooby Doo

 

[snowgolem]

Perhaps a dumb question, but is there even a clean, full render of Hedlok they could've used? (A publicly released one, anyway.)

I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure this is an officially render.
Dr Coyle would be the hard one.

 

[Deleted member]

If we were going to go for a wizard, I have a LONG list of characters I would prefer for them to invest in above another mii.
Granted, I despise the miis we already got as well.

I mean... my most wanted IS a wizard, yes?

But i’ll take what I can get lol, considering how unlikely it is.

 

[PSIGuy]

All DLC characters, regardless of who they are, will naturally sell a fair amount on their own, right? What is something Nintendo/Sakurai could do that would make a DLC character bomb with poor sales?

I don't think a specific character would bomb. It's more likely that sales for the season pass die down because they take too long adding a hype character. Byleth followed by Minmin could very easily lead to a less successful Pass if they add another "ugh"/"fine I guess" addition.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Introducing... MII WIZARD!"

Id buy it

 

[Idon]

Why's that?

Because in a video game crossover,
the LAST character I want to play as is a completely made up one...
and then they did it three times.

Four if you count Roy.

 

[ZelDan]

-They add Mii Wizard to Ultimate
-All premium Mii costumes still end up being only for Mii Gunner

 

[Perkilator]

Because in a video game crossover,
the LAST character I want to play as is a completely made up one...
and then they did it three times.

Four if you count Roy.

I mean...like it or not, the three Mii fighters are still three different versions of an existing species established years before their Smash debut.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

-They add Mii Wizard to Ultimate
-All premium Mii costumes still end up being only for Mii Gunner

would it kill them to make a premium brawler or premium swordfighter? pls that's all i ask...

 

[Deleted member]

Because in a video game crossover,
the LAST character I want to play as is a completely made up one...
and then they did it three times.

Four if you count Roy.

I mean... if you wanna get technical the Miis are a video game character, just not in the traditional way of being a character with a series attached to it. More like a personal avatar. I say they fit pretty well into Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the Miis in general are a good idea, poor execution situation.

Good Idea: Create a character.
Poor Execution: They aren't really created with a playstyle in mind, which is weird considering the idea of having multiple movesets for them kinda lends to this idea. This also gives them a lack of pretty much any interesting mechanics.
How to Make Better: Give each archetype a specific playstyle, and interesting mechanics to work off of. And give them their freaking personality back.

Because in a video game crossover,
the LAST character I want to play as is a completely made up one...
and then they did it three times.

Four if you count Roy.

I'd argue that the Miis are characters in and of themselves in the same vein as someone like Robin. This is especially evident in games like Miitopia and Tomadatchi Life. The issue is that none of the charm you come to expect from them is present in Super Smash Bros. whatsoever. Sakurai was right, they really are almost not even Miis anymore.

 

[snowgolem]

Because in a video game crossover,
the LAST character I want to play as is a completely made up one...
and then they did it three times.

Four if you count Roy.

Bruh.
Except that they’re meant to represent characters that didn’t make the cut?
Makoto Yuki would be absolute great in Smash. It won’t happen though, so I play the Mii.
While they are technically original fighters, they’re here for a purpose that they fulfill.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

"Introducing... MII WIZARD!"

Awkward.......

 

[Idon]

I mean...like it or not, the three Mii fighters are still three different versions of an existing species established years before their Smash debut.

I mean... if you wanna get technical the Miis are a video game character, just not in the traditional way of being a character with a series attached to it. More like a personal avatar. I say they fit pretty well into Smash.

I'd argue that the Miis are characters in and of themselves in the same vein as someone like Robin. This is especially evident in games like Miitopia and Tomadatchi Life. The issue is that none of the charm you come to expect from them is present in Super Smash Bros. whatsoever. Sakurai was right, they really are almost not even Miis anymore.

Bruh.
Except that they’re meant to represent characters that didn’t make the cut?
Makoto Yuki would be absolute great in Smash. It won’t happen though, so I play the Mii.
While they are technically original fighters, they’re here for a purpose that they fulfill.

I'd believe they were representative of mii games or avatars so if they had anything based off of anything that existing species did across their plethora of games. While I might not like them, I would understand their "significance in gaming history" and begrudgingly say that their inclusion makes sense and all that. However they don't have that, nor do they really draw from those games.

They're generic templates for which the smash team can implement awkward looking costumes with generic moves that draw from other fighters. I would not, in any universe, choose these three characters to exist over any character I want or hell, any character I'm ambivalent to.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd believe they were representative of mii games or avatars so if they had anything based off of anything that existing species did across their plethora of games. While I might not like them, I would understand their "significance in gaming history" and begrudgingly say that their inclusion makes sense and all that. However they don't do that.

They're generic templates for which the smash team can implement awkward looking costumes with generic moves that draw from other fighters. I would not, in any universe, choose these three characters to exist over any character I want or hell, any character I'm ambivalent to.

Wii Sports would like a word with you

 

[StrangeKitten]

Oh my goodness you're right. The world would not be able to handle the new Mii type's name breaking the current naming conventions. It would be the greatest disturbance in the force since Regirock, Registeel, and Regice.

EDIT: I'm only half kidding. Calling it the Mii Wizard instead of the Mii Caster would bug me to no end.

Mii Wizarder

 

[ZelDan]

I'd believe they were representative of mii games or avatars so if they had anything based off of anything that existing species did across their plethora of games. While I might not like them, I would understand their "significance in gaming history" and begrudgingly say that their inclusion makes sense and all that. However they don't do that.

They're generic templates for which the smash team can implement awkward looking costumes with generic moves that draw from other fighters. I would not, in any universe, choose these three characters to exist over any character I want or hell, any character I'm ambivalent to.

Yeah, The Isaac Mii costume really does not do anything for me at all. I don't feel like I'm playing as Isaac at all. At best I feel like I'm playing some hobgoblin, Walmart brand Isaac that doesn't even fight how you'd expect him to do so.

Even the better costumes like Sans and Cuphead just doesn't do it and the music additions that came with them ended up being cooler than the costumes themselves.

 

[snowgolem]

I’m the only one who likes Miis and their concepts huh

I’m telling you guys, they need to bring the proportions feature back. People will like them so much more if you can make them not look like bobbleheads.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Awkward.......

This is part of why I question the need for a Mii Wizard, the three we have already cover the three fighting styles in Smash: Punchies/kicks, weapons and projectiles.
I don't know what a Wizard could possibly add to the trio that couldn't already be done with the ones we do have, the most that would need to be done is allow for cross-custom movesets across the archetypes and giving the Swordfighter access to Gunner's moves. And if there were more specific, unique magic spells that couldn't be replicated by my theoretical swordfighter with gunner's moves, I'd rather see them on an actual Nintendo character.

 

[Deleted member]

I’m the only one who likes Miis and their concepts huh

I’m telling you guys, they need to bring the proportions feature back. People will like them so much more if you can make them not look like bobbleheads.

Still kinda confused why it was removed. Like I get that a certain combo was stupid op(so much so it make mii’s get banned in comp) but why not just have the hitbox be the same and it’s just a visual effect? That can work, right?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They're generic templates for which the smash team can implement awkward looking costumes with generic moves that draw from other fighters. I would not, in any universe, choose these three characters to exist over any character I want or hell, any character I'm ambivalent to.

I think the Miis would have been so much better if they were added in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate since there would have been a customizable combat role to pull from via Miitopia. They still likely would have gone with the most generic ones like the Warrior (grappler), Mage (zoner), and Theif (rush down), but they'd at least have a theme to work toward instead of making them feel like every single brawler or swordfighter, and none of them at the same time. Oh and also diet Samus.

Wii Sports would like a word with you
View attachment 282829

They don't even take anything from that. The sword stuff is more like Kendo then generic flippy Link/Marth/Meta Knight stuff the Swordsman has now.

Mii Wizarder

That...Why would you do that?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Yeah, The Isaac Mii costume really does not do anything for me at all. I don't feel like I'm playing as Isaac at all. At best I feel like I'm playing some hobgoblin, Walmart brand Isaac that doesn't even fight how you'd expect him to do so.

Even the better costumes like Sans and Cuphead just doesn't do it and the music additions that came with them ended up being cooler than the costumes themselves.

Imo the only Mii that really feels like I'm playing as the character is Vault boy. Not only he looks perfect, but the Mii gunner's weapon actually fit quite well with Vault boy cartoony style.

But I agree with Cuphead. I read a lot here and on other forums that people think that he feel like Cuphead but honestly... not at all imo. I get that respecting the Cuphead artstyle is impossible with a Mii but for me it looks like a cheap Disney mascot Cuphead rather than the actual Cuphead.

 

[Deleted member]

Mii Wizarder

On a more serious note that’s actually not half-bad.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Still kinda confused why it was removed. Like I get that a certain combo was stupid op(so much so it make mii’s get banned in comp) but why not just have the hitbox be the same and it’s just a visual effect? That can work, right?

Not likely.

 

[snowgolem]

Still kinda confused why it was removed. Like I get that a certain combo was stupid op(so much so it make mii’s get banned in comp) but why not just have the hitbox be the same and it’s just a visual effect? That can work, right?

Nah, then people would call BS if their tiny Mii gets hit in air or if their opponent phases thru attacks. iirc the main problem with tiny brawler back in smash 4 wasn’t just his hitbox- it was him being light and fast too. if they could just make it do their weight and speed stayed the same no matter the size then it could work.
Either that or make a setting to switch your mii from bobblehead mode to human mode.

 

[7NATOR]

No one is disagreeing with you on the "he's possible" angle.

We're all just confused about how he's the one you're most confident in. Like, out of every single character that drifts into and out of speculation, this is the most bizarre expectation I've seen yet.

I see. Well I don't have anything really organize to really explain it in the best Detail, I'll just give out some quick reasons and such

-MK11 Came to the Switch back in April of 2019. I know this doesn't automatically mean Mortal Kombat in Smash. what it does mean is that WB Games/Netherrealm have came back to Nintendo after years (and MK9 and MKX) Missing Nintendo Consoles. Plus around the time of the release of the game is when FP2 was probably being thought of and such

-Ed Boon has been very supporting of wanting Mortal Kombat in Smash. there's been interviews where he expressed interest in Smash, and also Tweets. nothing special there though

-In Interviews with Ed Boon, Ed Boon hasn't had a Response that would look bad for the chances of Mortal Kombat characters. I'll maybe post the video link and such, but the wording doesn't Confirm, nor explicity deconfirm either, and he doesn't go into how He and Nintendo talked about the potential inclusion. If you look at the Doom Interview, the guy went into detail into the talks of Doomguy into Smash and how Nintendo didn't take it too seriously. Ed Boon interview wasn't like that

-Kind of like there was that poll with Dante with what Kamiya character would you want to see in Smash, there was a Mortal Kombat Poll of whether you want to see Scorpion or Sub-Zero in Smash. Scorpion won. This was back in April of 2018 I Believe

-Mortal Kombat has been pulling numbers and doing really well the Past Decade, starting with MK9. I Mean honestly i don't think there was a period were they weren't doing well, but This Era of Mortal Kombat is Doing REALLY Well

-In terms of what audience Mortal Kombat appeals too. It's a different audience than from the other characters in the Pass. Mortal Kombat recently houses large Playerbase on PS4 and also Xbox, but it also could appeal to Nintendo at the same time because Mortal Kombat has had a long History with Ninten, along with MK11 being on Switch already. It also appeals to a More Mature Audience, Kind of Like with Joker, though MK is Bigger game and due to the difference in Genre, differs in Audience. The Audience is also different from Terry as well, Due to the more mature nature and just the fact Mortal Kombat has way more causal audience than King of Fighters, or even other FG Suggestions (Like Guilty Gear)

-On the Japan point, I will have to do more research into how Well Mortal Kombat did before CERO came in (I Don't believe it was the most successful). even then though, I do think Mortal Kombat's inclusion would actually add some intrigue to the Pass. I've heard that some in Japan think Mortal Kombat is some Urban Legend, so Smash, which is a big Game in Japan, having this "Banned" Franchise as DLC might provide some intrigue. I Know Injutice 1 was released in Japan and didn't do so well (and DLC Had Scorpion), but The barrier of entry is much wider considering Smash already has alot of customers from the base game. Injustice didn't have that. Of course they might not just care, but it's something to consider

-Ed Boon has expressed interest in Street Fighter Vs Mortal Kombat. an actual game has been stated not to work, however with Street Fighter already in Smash, this idea could be replicated in Smash. It's kind of that Same point with Dante vs Bayonetta.

And then the following points are more Conspiracy based, but they could lead to something

-Arc Systems have a Spirit in the game currently with River City. I don't think they would Spoil Arc's System Inclusion if we were to get a character, but perhaps we could still see more content in More Spirit events or Mii costumes, more precisely of guilty Gear or Blazblue, both fighting games. there have been trends of Fighting game costumes coming with other Fighting game characters. a Point towards Scorpion

-M Theory. Scorpion is not the only character affected, as Other Candiates like Dante, Ryu, Master Chief, Travis could also be affected by this, but it also Helps Scorpion though

-A Theory is that Min-Min was revealed this early because she's gonna appear in a Fighting based trailer. She has that Asian Inspired design. Scorpion is also Asian Inspired as well. This is Very tinfoil hat though

-a Gamefaqs user by the name of Calebtine came onto Smashfaqs and said Scorpion was Fighter 5 and would be revealed in November. However in a later post he retracted the Statement as a misunderstanding from a friend. There's more detail in the following Links

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78120584

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78348744

However, while it could be fake, One thing I'll say is that Netherrealm has a Nasty history of being leaked. they got their full Base roster for MK11 leaked Through Picture, and I believe real leaks have been posted straight to Gamefaqs before. This post could be indicative of that.

-Sakurai might love Ninjas. Bias Theory baby

I need to go ahead and do a more in depth documentation, but I believe Scorpion might have signs pointing towards him. He fits the Timeline of when FP2 would have been chosen, and he has Perks that other characters (even other Western Characters like Crash) doesn't have. It doesn't sound impressive probably, but I'm gonna stick by my convictions on this one.

 

[Deleted member]

I see. Well I don't have anything really organize to really explain it in the best Detail, I'll just give out some quick reasons and such

-MK11 Came to the Switch back in April of 2019. I know this doesn't automatically mean Mortal Kombat in Smash. what it does mean is that WB Games/Netherrealm have came back to Nintendo after years (and MK9 and MKX) Missing Nintendo Consoles. Plus around the time of the release of the game is when FP2 was probably being thought of and such

-Ed Boon has been very supporting of wanting Mortal Kombat in Smash. there's been interviews where he expressed interest in Smash, and also Tweets. nothing special there though

-In Interviews with Ed Boon, Ed Boon hasn't had a Response that would look bad for the chances of Mortal Kombat characters. I'll maybe post the video link and such, but the wording doesn't Confirm, nor explicity deconfirm either, and he doesn't go into how He and Nintendo talked about the potential inclusion. If you look at the Doom Interview, the guy went into detail into the talks of Doomguy into Smash and how Nintendo didn't take it too seriously. Ed Boon interview wasn't like that

-Kind of like there was that poll with Dante with what Kamiya character would you want to see in Smash, there was a Mortal Kombat Poll of whether you want to see Scorpion or Sub-Zero in Smash. Scorpion won. This was back in April of 2018 I Believe

-Mortal Kombat has been pulling numbers and doing really well the Past Decade, starting with MK9. I Mean honestly i don't think there was a period were they weren't doing well, but This Era of Mortal Kombat is Doing REALLY Well

-In terms of what audience Mortal Kombat appeals too. It's a different audience than from the other characters in the Pass. Mortal Kombat recently houses large Playerbase on PS4 and also Xbox, but it also could appeal to Nintendo at the same time because Mortal Kombat has had a long History with Ninten, along with MK11 being on Switch already. It also appeals to a More Mature Audience, Kind of Like with Joker, though MK is Bigger game and due to the difference in Genre, differs in Audience. The Audience is also different from Terry as well, Due to the more mature nature and just the fact Mortal Kombat has way more causal audience than King of Fighters, or even other FG Suggestions (Like Guilty Gear)

-On the Japan point, I will have to do more research into how Well Mortal Kombat did before CERO came in (I Don't believe it was the most successful). even then though, I do think Mortal Kombat's inclusion would actually add some intrigue to the Pass. I've heard that some in Japan think Mortal Kombat is some Urban Legend, so Smash, which is a big Game in Japan, having this "Banned" Franchise as DLC might provide some intrigue. I Know Injutice 1 was released in Japan and didn't do so well (and DLC Had Scorpion), but The barrier of entry is much wider considering Smash already has alot of customers from the base game. Injustice didn't have that. Of course they might not just care, but it's something to consider

-Ed Boon has expressed interest in Street Fighter Vs Mortal Kombat. an actual game has been stated not to work, however with Street Fighter already in Smash, this idea could be replicated in Smash. It's kind of that Same point with Dante vs Bayonetta.

And then the following points are more Conspiracy based, but they could lead to something

-Arc Systems have a Spirit in the game currently with River City. I don't think they would Spoil Arc's System Inclusion if we were to get a character, but perhaps we could still see more content in More Spirit events or Mii costumes, more precisely of guilty Gear or Blazblue, both fighting games. there have been trends of Fighting game costumes coming with other Fighting game characters. a Point towards Scorpion

-M Theory. Scorpion is not the only character affected, as Other Candiates like Dante, Ryu, Master Chief, Travis could also be affected by this, but it also Helps Scorpion though

-A Theory is that Min-Min was revealed this early because she's gonna appear in a Fighting based trailer. She has that Asian Inspired design. Scorpion is also Asian Inspired as well. This is Very tinfoil hat though

-a Gamefaqs user by the name of Calebtine came onto Smashfaqs and said Scorpion was Fighter 5 and would be revealed in November. However in a later post he retracted the Statement as a misunderstanding from a friend. There's more detail in the following Links

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78120584

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78348744

However, while it could be fake, One thing I'll say is that Netherrealm has a Nasty history of being leaked. they got their full Base roster for MK11 leaked Through Picture, and I believe real leaks have been posted straight to Gamefaqs before. This post could be indicative of that.

-Sakurai might love Ninjas. Bias Theory baby

I need to go ahead and do a more in depth documentation, but I believe Scorpion might have signs pointing towards him. He fits the Timeline of when FP2 would have been chosen, and he has Perks that other characters (even other Western Characters like Crash) doesn't have. It doesn't sound impressive probably, but I'm gonna stick by my convictions on this one.

Isn’t Mortal Kombat banned in Japan thought? Why would they add a character from a game that literally no one is allowed to play over there?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nah, then people would call BS if their tiny Mii gets hit in air or if their opponent phases thru attacks. iirc the main problem with tiny brawler back in smash 4 wasn’t just his hitbox- it was him being light and fast too. if they could just make it do their weight and speed stayed the same no matter the size then it could work.
Either that or make a setting to switch your mii from bobblehead mode to human mode.

The main issue is that if it affects stats, there needs to be a tradeoff (otherwise you'd just make heavy Miis), but while speed is the difference between being viable and not, weight seems to be more of an icing on the cake in regards to the attribute hierarchy.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Hey you know what? While Prince of Persia is at least a decent subject right now.

I’m just saying.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Isn’t Mortal Kombat banned in Japan thought? Why would they add a character from a game that literally no one is allowed to play over there?

No. It's just not sold there. They're allowed to play it (and can since the Switch isn't region locked), they just can't get the game in Japanese, and wouldn't want to play it anyway since gore is not a selling point in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

No. It's just not sold there. They're allowed to play it (and can since the Switch isn't region locked), they just can't get the game in Japanese, and wouldn't want to play it anyway since gore is not a selling point in Japan.

Ah. That makes more sense. My apologies.