Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SpectreJordan]

As I told through PM to @cosmicB , I doubt Geno, Lloyd, Chief, Crash and Dante are all going to be DLC characters, let alone Waluigi. Those are all popular picks, and I know Nintendo well enough to know that they would, or Sakurai would not choose picks that are all popular, but would include others that weren't requested and even unexpected like Byleth. I am not buying Fatman's predictions myself.

It probably won’t happen & we’ll be lucky to get any of those characters. But that’d be a damn good ending to Smash Ultimate & it’s fun to dream about. It’s not like there’s much else to talk about during this info drought.

It is very easy with to work with the publisher, but it is often difficult to work with the developer (sub-company).

For example, this was my response for why Master Chief couldn't appear in Smash:



This is the followup response when someone fully understood the original intent behind the message:



After I post these responses, I went to do more research on what else 343i did with the Halo franchise and if they causes any controversy recently. And I found this controversy that was post 3 months ago, and it basically boil to 343i not Microsoft that causes this issues. Remember 343i is the one who currently control the Halo assets after Bungle left Microsoft and can determine whether or not someone else can property uses the very same asset from Halo into their own project like Red vs Blue or into a fighting game like DoA or KI.

The only time Master Chief the character have officially appears in a actual crossover for a video game was Super Bomberman R as a Microsoft exclusive character. Even then, that MC is a alternate take/counterpart, and therefore this alternate character doesn't conflict with the supposedly 343i/Bungle's reason for why MC can't appears in other games as the current Halo timeline/canon isn't conflicted. This is also another reason for why MC can appears as a character skin in Minecraft as that appearance doesn't involved the Halo timeline/canon.

Microsoft can be a easy publisher that Nintendo can worked with, but 343i is the one who could pose the bigger problem for why Master Chief can't appear in Smash unless Nintendo is okay with the suggestion of Master Chief being a Mii Costume for a Mii Fighter. Master Chief being a spirit isn't possible since it involve the actual likeness of such character and this conflict with Bungle/343i on the whole Halo timeline/canon. I wouldn't be surprise if Master Chief didn't appears in the current Fighter Pass 2 or any future Smash game(s) as along as the suppose Halo timeline/canon is involved.

Once again, I am perfectly okay with anyone joining Smash if it makes in context.

I know this was an issue in the past but I think they’d make an exception for Freaking Smash Bros. If 343 were to get pissy, I imagine Microsoft would override them too. Smash is too good of a marketing opportunity to pass up.

 

[Deleted member]

Why not? It's just another thing to share a laugh over when he's most likely proven wrong again.

This exactly.

When leakers get things right we can look back and see they have at least some potential credibility.
When it’s obvious they’re wrong though?

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Well this was a thought i Also had, however there were 3 things with that

1. It's not just that the game stopped development, Download links were also Taken down and such.

2. While one of the people that worked on the game said Nintendo had nothing to do with it's demise, another person that also worked on the game said the opposite of that. very weird

3. What Papagenos said about there being some evidence for Geno or Waluigi being playable in Smash. The common speculation was that Legacy XP was the thing involved (since both of those characters are in it), and Papagenos came out and said that people have guessed the evidence correctly, but he can't say


I think there is merit to the takedown being because something is coming to Ultimate that was in Legacy XP. I do think there's also merit that the game just got taken down just because. Like I said, I'm surprised Nintendo hasn't gone for Brawl mods of Ultimate DLC Characters like Joker

The takedown being for Geno and Waluigi, that could just be a coincidence! It is unlikely that they were taking them down just because they were developing those characters, if they ever were. I mean, that could have been for something else. For anything other than Geno and Waluigi. Not that the music takedown evidence for Geno happened over a year ago, and Geno still has not gotten in Ultimate.

 

[SharkLord]

Didn't the mod also have Shadow and Metal Sonic? Or are Mario characters the only ones that matter now?

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

Music takedowns, ultimately, don't mean a whole lot. They're not applied consistently in the slightest. Take a look at, say, this heavily-viewed fan upload of the Ocarina of Time soundtrack. Many of the game's most popular/recognizable songs have been taken down on copyright grounds. Many others, however, are completely untouched. Why would Nintendo bother to specifically take down the Forest Temple song, but not the Spirit Temple song from the same uploader and the same playlist? The answer is that there isn't really a reason that makes sense.

Game mod videos may be just as haphazardly ignored or taken down as well. I think it's, at best, a flimsy reason to assume anything in particular is going to happen in the future.

 

[7NATOR]

The takedown being for Geno and Waluigi, that could just be a coincidence! It is unlikely that they were taking them down just because they were developing those characters, if they ever were. I mean, that could have been for something else. For anything other than Geno and Waluigi. Not that the music takedown evidence for Geno happened over a year ago, and Geno still has not gotten in Ultimate.

Perhaps, I just think it's weird that Legaxy XP Takedown happened as late as it did.

Didn't the mod also have Shadow and Metal Sonic? Or are Mario characters the only ones that matter now?

It did. I only brought up Geno and Waluigi because Papagenos brought them up only, he thinks the other characters were Unlikely. I don't think Metal will get in, but I do think Shadow should be more discussed if we want to bring up the legacy Xp takedown meaning anything. That's just me though.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Music takedowns, ultimately, don't mean a whole lot. They're not applied consistently in the slightest. Take a look at, say, this heavily-viewed fan upload of the Ocarina of Time soundtrack. Many of the game's most popular/recognizable songs have been taken down on copyright grounds. Many others, however, are completely untouched. Why would Nintendo bother to specifically take down the Forest Temple song, but not the Spirit Temple song from the same uploader and the same playlist? The answer is that there isn't really a reason that makes sense.

Game mod videos may be just as haphazardly ignored or taken down as well. I think it's, at best, a flimsy reason to assume anything in particular is going to happen in the future.

Such as a character like Geno getting in. I believe you have a point there.

About Geno, by the way, he is still from Square-Enix. People say Geno should get in now that character's from the company's two biggest franchises, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, have gotten in. However, Square and Enix make up the name of the company, when the company still has others like Eidos Interactive, Crystal Dynamics and Taito. I can imagine other characters from those series like Lara Croft and Bub and Bob getting in before Geno. What I mean, is that Square still has some "mascots", to say, or big name characters from the other companies that make up Square-Enix that they could use before Geno. I can see the odds being less for a character from the already represented Square side like Geno getting in before the others I mentioned.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

do you guys think we'd get anything from the Bandai half of Bandai Namco or is that too much of a grey area (they're mostly licensed anime games)?

 

[chocolatejr9]

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This probably counts as a deconfirm, but he wasn't that likely anyways. Plus, this gives me an excuse to tell you all to buy The Henry Stickmin Collection on Steam. May as well be GOTY for its humor alone.

 

[SnowClaws]

Ahh. but didn't the Halo Twitter Account suggest they were down for Chief in Smash. Then again that is just the Halo Twitter Account, So I don't know

Also couldn't there be some workaround for the lore thing. like you said Chief appears in Super Bomberman R and in Minecraft, and exists as an alternate take. could the same thing be applied to Smash? I mean, Personally I would hate to see the main reason Chief couldn't be i Smash was because 343 is really serious about the lore

I didn't about know the Halo Twitter Account being supportive of Chief being in Smash, I guess that is a another good counterpoint I overlooked. Like I said in the very same response, Chief can appears in Smash as a Mii Costume for a Mii Fighter (a Minecraft situation), but not a spirit as it involve the actual character himself. Maybe Chief can appears as a fighter in Smash as a one time deal and that is it.

I know this was an issue in the past but I think they’d make an exception for Freaking Smash Bros. If 343 were to get pissy, I imagine Microsoft would override them too. Smash is too good of a marketing opportunity to pass up.

Hard to said if Microsoft could control 343i's attitude, the whole Halo franchise is under the palm of 343i and they are the one in charge on whether or not the Halo content(s) can ever make it in Smash. Maybe Chief can appears as a fighter in Smash as a one time deal and that is it.

 

[7NATOR]

do you guys think we'd get anything from the Bandai half of Bandai Namco or is that too much of a grey area (they're mostly licensed anime games)?

That would be cool, I doubt it though.

Perhaps Agumon, but I Don't know if he's the Bandai or Namco side.

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This probably counts as a deconfirm, but he wasn't that likely anyways. Plus, this gives me an excuse to tell you all to buy The Henry Stickmin Collection on Steam. May as well be GOTY for its humor alone.

Henry would have been cool cause he represents both Stickmen and also the line of Awesome Flash games, and since Flash is dying in Dcember 2020 it would have been cool to see it's legacy represented in Smash

Though Henry's moveset would be difficult to Pinpoint, he kinda just pulls lots of stuff out of his booty

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

That would be cool, I doubt it though.

Perhaps Agumon, but I Don't know if he's the Bandai or Namco side.



Henry would have been cool cause he represents both Stickmen and also the line of Awesome Flash games, and since Flash is dying in Dcember 2020 it would have been cool to see it's legacy represented in Smash

Though Henry's moveset would be difficult to Pinpoint, he kinda just pulls lots of stuff out of his booty

Flash is dying in December? What do you mean?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That would be cool, I doubt it though.

Perhaps Agumon, but I Don't know if he's the Bandai or Namco side.



Henry would have been cool cause he represents both Stickmen and also the line of Awesome Flash games, and since Flash is dying in Dcember 2020 it would have been cool to see it's legacy represented in Smash

Though Henry's moveset would be difficult to Pinpoint, he kinda just pulls lots of stuff out of his booty

Agumon is Bandai and im sure the digital pet came before the anime so he should be fine. plus im sure people have wanted Pikachu vs Agumon since the 90's

Flash is dying in December? What do you mean?

it's ending support in December. there's a project called Flashpoint (google it) that has preserved a frick ton of flash games and videos

 

[Deleted member]

do you guys think we'd get anything from the Bandai half of Bandai Namco or is that too much of a grey area (they're mostly licensed anime games)?

I don’t think its happening.... but....

Yugi for Smash Bros! /s
I’m totally not biased or anything!

 

[Dinoman96]

Such as a character like Geno getting in. I believe you have a point there.

About Geno, by the way, he is still from Square-Enix. People say Geno should get in now that character's from the company's two biggest franchises, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, have gotten in. However, Square and Enix make up the name of the company, when the company still has others like Eidos Interactive, Crystal Dynamics and Taito. I can imagine other characters from those series like Lara Croft and Bub and Bob getting in before Geno. What I mean, is that Square still has some "mascots", to say, or big name characters from the other companies that make up Square-Enix that they could use before Geno. I can see the odds being less for a character from the already represented Square side like Geno getting in before the others I mentioned.

Eh, I dunno.

I think FF and DQ were the only two SE series that felt like they absolutely had to be there. If there's one thing Geno has going for him over the likes of Bub and Bob or whatever, it's massive fan demand, as acknowledged by Sakurai himself. I don't really see Nintendo being interested in dead IPs that aren't heavily requested, like Chrono Trigger or something like that.

I kinda don't see them going for Lara Croft because even though she's owned by a JP company, she's still kind of an AAA western character which Smash Bros. has avoided up to this point. Banjo-Kazooie is our first fully western franchise in Smash...and it's the one that used to be a co-owned Nintendo IP back in the day.

I think 2B is probably Geno's biggest competitor at this point. Like I said in the other thread, she's in a very similar boat with Joker, being the star of a breakout hit game from 2017, and Sakurai has already lavished Nier Automata with praise (just as he did with Persona 5).

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

since Flash is dying in Dcember 2020 it would have been cool to see it's legacy represented in Smash

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Eh, I dunno.

I think FF and DQ were the only two SE series that felt like they absolutely had to be there. If there's one thing Geno has going for him over the likes of Bub and Bob or whatever, it's massive fan demand, as acknowledged by Sakurai himself. I don't really see Nintendo being interested in dead IPs that aren't heavily requested, like Chrono Trigger or something like that.

I kinda don't see them going for Lara Croft because even though she's owned by a JP company, she's still kind of an AAA western character which Smash Bros. has avoided up to this point. Banjo-Kazooie is our first fully western franchise in Smash...and it's the one that used to be a co-owned Nintendo IP back in the day.

I think 2B is probably Geno's biggest competitor at this point. Like I said in the other thread, she's in a very similar boat with Joker, being the star of a breakout hit game from 2017, and Sakurai has already lavished Nier Automata with praise (just as he did with Persona 5).

I was just saying. Still, that is to say, fan demand can only do so much. Plus, there are plenty of other characters not made by Square and Enix, but still part of Square-Enix that I can see getting in before Geno. Some may be western, but that doesn't mean their probability is zero, and it may not be as low as some think. I am sure there are other recent games if we want to talk about that, too, or close to recent ones like before or right after 2010, and I say the recent ones have more chance some than Geno does, since he is from an obscure RPG game in comparison, after all. I can personally see a Taito character as being among the ones getting in before Geno.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Agumon is Bandai and im sure the digital pet came before the anime so he should be fine. plus im sure people have wanted Pikachu vs Agumon since the 90's

This is one of the potential things I loved about Smash; all of this dream matches that now some of them are not a dreamed, like Cloud vs Link was a dreamed some years ago or Mario vs Sonic until Brawl came out. That's why I hoped we can get Dante and Crash this time to have a Bayonetta vs Dante matchup or revive 90's console wars with Mario vs Sonic vs Crash.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Wasn’t Lloyd also at one point in the “Bandai Namco Costumes” list alongside Nightmare and KOS-MOS (and I think also Heihachi which came true)

These will be the Mii Costumes that will be coming with the Prince of All Cosmos

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As I suspect we may get another female rep. I'm certain we'll at least be getting at least one fan favorite pick.

 

[7NATOR]

As I suspect we may get another female rep. I'm certain we'll at least be getting at least one fan favorite pick.

I mean I do definitely think we'll get a Fan Pick, but in terms of Female characters, The characters i suspect if we got another one would be Reimu, Ahri, or KOS-MOS perhaps

Though honestly instead of a female character, I do think what could happen is we might get a character that appeals to a Female audience. While it was most definitly not the only reason we got her, Isabelle did have large support from the Female Audience (being an animal crossing character, which i think has larger Female audience than other games), I mean that's probably a reason why they asked for your gender in the ballot, so it probably matters in a way

Series that I think have seen that has a large female Audience include Kingdom Hearts, Tales of, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, among other franchises.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean I do definitely think we'll get a Fan Pick, but in terms of Female characters, The characters i suspect if we got another one would be Reimu, Ahri, or KOS-MOS perhaps

Though honestly instead of a female character, I do think what could happen is we might get a character that appeals to a Female audience. While it was most definitly not the only reason we got her, Isabelle did have large support from the Female Audience (being an animal crossing character, which i think has larger Female audience than other games), I mean that's probably a reason why they asked for your gender in the ballot, so it probably matters in a way

Series that I think have seen that has a large female Audience include Kingdom Hearts, Tales of, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, among other franchises.

how about first party female characters? Dixie, Impa, Elma, Octoling (technically an avatar but the female is the default) etc?

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

how about first party female characters? Dixie, Impa, Elma, Octoling (technically an avatar but the female is the default) etc?

I'd go with Dixie, personally speaking.

 

[cashregister9]

I mean I do definitely think we'll get a Fan Pick, but in terms of Female characters, The characters i suspect if we got another one would be Reimu, Ahri, or KOS-MOS perhaps

Estelle, Saber, Sakura, 2B, Amaterasu, Ryza, Lora, Elma, Haruka, Tracer, Arle there are way more female characters that have a chance All of them including the ones you've listed would be good additions (Except for maybe league but that is a personal thing)

 

[7NATOR]

how about first party female characters? Dixie, Impa, Elma, Octoling (technically an avatar but the female is the default) etc?

Personally, I could see Elma and Dixie being in. Dixie personally I believe is the One Character I think SHOULD be in Smash at this point (and i don't really care about Dixie like that, so no bias there). However the Similarities to Diddy she has can't be ignored, and I don't know if the Unique stuff she has (the Hair) is enough to make her more moveset viable than other characters.

Like I don't want to start a War, but Personally at least with Shadow, who's another character that has Similarities with another character (Sonic) at least he has more material for Flashy, Swag moveset (that's part of why Shadow is my most wanted), and even I don't know if that's enough to make him more viable than other characters.

Octoling I don't think will happen, but if it did It's very understandable, People love Octolings. Impa is cool, but Skull Kid or Midna first probably

 

[SpectreJordan]

When it comes to women characters I’d like to see Jill Valentine/Claire Redfield, 2B, Chun-Li, Tifa, Lara Croft, Dixie Kong, Impa, Ring Fit & Akira Howard.

I don’t really think any of them besides 2B have a chance though. Jill, Ring Fit & Akira are extra unlikely since they’re DLC spirits. Claire probably is too just by being a RE character unless they were playing 4D chess to cover up Claire being in the game. Which would be amazing buuuut super unlikely.

 

[7NATOR]

Estelle, Saber, Sakura, 2B, Amaterasu, Ryza, Lora, Elma, Haruka, Tracer, Arle there are way more female characters that have a chance All of them including the ones you've listed would be good additions (Except for maybe league but that is a personal thing)

I actually can't believe i forgot about Estelle, because i was actually in their thread, and apparently they had an interesting theory

Basically i guess the guy that created Trails of, Y's, all the Falcom games had Reddit AMAs, and when he was asked about Smash, he mentioned Adol, but said he could think of what he would do, so he would go with Rean because he's a Swordman .

The thing is that just a few weeks before he mentioned that his favorite story he liked to write for was Trails in the Sky, and Estelle in particular was his favorite, and it was odd that she wasn't even mentioned, and that the reasoning of Rean over Adol was vey weird. they speculated it could have been some NDA type thing or such.

Estelle Braces For Battle! Estelle Bright For Smash.

Wow that's a big theory, good to have you LucKekkai. In the AMA that he had before that interview, he was asked what his favorite story was in the Trails games. He responded that the Sky games were his favorite, and that they had a special place in his memories. Another person was asked him...

smashboards.com

First post goes into Detail

Falcom is not represented in Smash at all, which is very Weird (same thing with Level-5's Absense), So I'm expecting something to come with them, even if it's just Spirits

as for the other characters, they are cool, but I don't personally think they are happening except for perhaps Arle and Maybe Elma. I do think 2B will be a costume though


Also i just realized, I know there was speculation that if E3 was still a thing, We would have gotten FP6 (Min-Min) and FP7 shown off. I remember the League of Legends leak that predicted the Trials of Mana Spirits. while it didn't give which FP character the League character would be, there's actually a likely chance that they could have been FP7. League is heavily loved game in the West (and also the East, except for i think Japan), so it would have fit an E3 reveal. The character Ahri also would fit with the Daisy Glitches with the Cloth physics and stuff

 

[Michael the Spikester]

2B, Amaterasu, Elma and Lara Croft are all my wants for another female rep.

And though I'm not supporting her Dixie more then earns her place in the roster being among the last Nintendo all-stars yet to be in.

 

[PLATINUM7]

There's an actual Strong Bad tweet about him in Smash.

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[SharkLord]

As I suspect we may get another female rep. I'm certain we'll at least be getting at least one fan favorite pick.

Reimu and Isaac, respectively. This is the hill I'm dying on and you can't stop me. Besides, the speculative scene is habitually wrong anyways.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Reimu and Isaac, respectively. This is the hill I'm dying on and you can't stop me. Besides, the speculative scene is habitually wrong anyways.

Isn't it always? Even with any evidence for a character, there are still some things not known to fans when they speculate. They only have a small piece of the full picture, which keeps them from being right. There is only so much what fans know can do to make a correct guess.

 

[7NATOR]

Isn't it always? Even with any evidence for a character, there are still some things not known to fans when they speculate. They only have a small piece of the full picture, which keeps them from being right. There is only so much what fans know can do to make a correct guess.

Realest Thing ever said right here. though i think Speculation can at times pinpoint characters, but yeah.

Also Imagine if Isaac came with Geno Premium Costume, as Reference to Grinch leak, maybe even with Shadow Mii gunner (I want Shadow playable so bad, but I'll take anything these days.)

 

[3BitSaurus]

it's ending support in December. there's a project called Flashpoint (google it) that has preserved a frick ton of flash games and videos

Gotta say, I kinda admire the naming references people come up with for these things.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

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caption this

 

[SneakyLink]

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caption this

When you realize you aren't getting anymore games.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I don’t think its happening.... but....
View attachment 282490
Yugi for Smash Bros! /s
I’m totally not biased or anything!

As much as I am a big fan of Yu-Gi-Oh, I highly doubt that this is going to happen, since Sakurai stated that characters have to originate from a video game to be in Smash.

(Yes, I know that the /s is there for you being sarcastic, but my point still stands.)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why are people doubting copyright takedowns on youtube, clearly youtube has enough moderation to be absolutely flawless, or are you suggesting Kosmos isn't coming to Mario Kart Tour?

 

[7NATOR]

Why are people doubting copyright takedowns on youtube, clearly youtube has enough moderation to be absolutely flawless, or are you suggesting Kosmos isn't coming to Mario Kart Tour?

I'm still confused by that takedown to this day. you guys think it was just people Reporting the Video to Nintendo and having them take it down, or do you think Nintendo themselves went straight for it

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, let's play a game. Let's make an FP2 that mirrors FP1, with each slot having an equivalent between passes. Min Min can go wherever. Note that they don't necessarily have to be in release order. Also note that supposed obstacles in their way don't count here because of how unpredictable the choices for FP1 were, so Assist Trophies, Western companies, mature content, etc. don't matter here.

1. The Wild Card-Pretty much an excuse to do whatever, since FP2 has an extra slot.
2. The Outsider-A popular character, preferably from a modern smash hit but has little to no Nintendo appearances.
3. The Legend-A character from a massively popular and influential classic, much like the previous third-parties (Sans Bayonetta)
4. The Fan Favorite-A character who's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things, or at least hasn't seen much time in the spotlight recently, but is a popular pick regardless.
5. The Darkhorse-A character who's iconic yet niche, and is usually considered unlikely as a result. Bonus points if they aren't usually associated with Nintendo (Note that this character doesn't have to be completely overlooked, given how much speculation has expanded lately)
6. The Promotional Pick-A character from Switch-exclusive game. Note that you can't do a character who would promote a hypothetical release; It has to be an actual game. They do not have to be upcoming or in the past decade, either, nor do they have to be first-party.

In my case, I'll go with...

1. Wild Card-Min Min. Had to put her somewhere.
2. Outsider-2B. Nier: Automata was a smash hit and the breakthrough of both Platinum and Yoko Taro, but doesn't have a Switch port yet. Sounds pretty Joker-ish to me.
3. Legend-Crash Bandicoot. He was the PlayStation's mascot back in the day, even if he isn't owned by Sony, and he'd bring back the old console wars. Plus, he's discussed a lot lately, so he seems like a pretty safe choice for this spot.
4. Fan Favorite-Isaac. The guy's pretty much a first-party Banjo. Release in the late 90's/early 2000's era, an arguably improved sequel that's lesser-known, and a divisive 7th-generation sequel after a hiatus. Despite this, they've remained popular picks well into Ultimate's era (Though the AT did but a dent in Isaac's support).
5. Darkhorse-Reimu. Touhou's huge, and yet it isn't well-known beyond Japan and the doujin circles, leaving her to be passed over as a prospective rep in favor of Shantae (And probably Shovel Knight too, had it not been for the AT). Similarly, SNK's games were big influences on the fighting game scene and arcades, and yet they're not as popular beyond Latin America and the FGC.
6. Promotional Pick-Rex. XC2 sold surprisingly well for it's position, and helped Xenoblade break out of it's cult classic status. It's still promoted by MonoSoft and Rex is a popular request, especially in Japan.

Let's see what you do.

 

[SirBillyBob]

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I guess you could say....

Spoiler

Banjo's feeling blue