Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[MooMew64]

He’s baaaaack

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yes his 2 PM last Friday thing was wrong, but he’s still doubling down on an Indies tomorrow basically

(You wanted me to change the subject sooo...)

A broken clock is eventually right, lol.

Especially if this broken clock is parroting what everyone else is saying.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He’s baaaaack

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yes his 2 PM last Friday thing was wrong, but he’s still doubling down on an Indies tomorrow basically

(You wanted me to change the subject sooo...)

Damn if I say whatever the hell I want on twitter I can have people here see me as a potential source.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Remember the CacoMallow thing that some people still apparently believe in? This may be a bit of a stretch here, but if we got Vault Boy from Bethesda as a Mii Costume, then I can't see other Bethesda characters, and even Cacodemon, be in a custome. Now, Doom is not really owned by Bethesda from what I know, but, Bethesda does have something to do with those games, if a little, I am not sure what. Either way, I doubt Doom's company would necessarily put Cacodemon in as a costume on their own. Maybe I am wrong, but I can't see them doing so without doing much with Bethesda involved, or in the way. I am also not sure if we'll get another thing from a western company like, keyword, LIKE, Bethesda or Doom's company in Smash compared to the many Japanese company stuff already in Smash Bros., you know what I mean? Even if we do, I do have doubts Cacodemon will be among them, especially if they are few in number.

 

[7NATOR]

Damn if I say whatever the hell I want on twitter I can have people here see me as a potential source.

If you know the leaker language well enough, you could probably get away with it for awhile

Plus since it's a dry period, Speculators are willing to at least entertain.

Actually though, Disregarding Fatman, Haven't we had Actual Insiders on SmashBoards before? Why don't they come over here?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

He’s baaaaack

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yes his 2 PM last Friday thing was wrong, but he’s still doubling down on an Indies tomorrow basically

(You wanted me to change the subject sooo...)

Maaaaaan, who gives a **** about insiders anymore. who the **** cares

 

[Cutie Gwen]

characters, and even Cacodemon, be in a custome. Now, Doom is not really owned by Bethesda from what I know, but, Bethesda does have something to do with those games, if a little, I am not sure what

id Software owns Doom. Bethesda owns id Software

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

id Software owns Doom. Bethesda owns id Software

Thanks for that. If they are owned by Bethesda, though, that furthers my thoughts as I can't see something else Bethesda related coming into Smash, aside from playable characters, maybe. Even if there is, I doubt it will be Cacodemon, but perhaps someone else. As a Mii Costume, of course.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually there is something I'm wondering

When it comes to 3rd Parties (and even 1st parties in some cases) while the Character might be owned by 1 big Company technically (So Joker for Sega, Banjo for Microsoft), they are mostly owned by the Sub-Company (Atlus, Rare), it's just that the Sub-Company is owned by the Big Company

what I want to know is how different do you guys think working with a Sub-Company is from just working with the larger company at hand? To my knowledge, Sakurai and the team actually worked more with Rare than they did Microsoft. I'm also gonna assume the same thing happened with Atlus as well, along with possibly Bayonetta back in smash 4 with Platinum. Hell technically SNK could count because SNK is owned by a Chinese company I forgot the name of. Does this mean that sometimes it might be easier or harder to work with characters like these when compared to characters owned by the Big Company straight, like Sonic with Sega?

How would this also affect other characters as well? Like Tencent with Riot games, or WB Games with Netherrealm Studios. I'm just wondering the process of these things i guess

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

Thanks for that. If they are owned by Bethesda, though, that furthers my thoughts as I can't see something else Bethesda related coming into Smash, aside from playable characters, maybe. Even if there is, I doubt it will be Cacodemon, but perhaps someone else. As a Mii Costume, of course.

I generally agree. Like others have described, I don't see why they would "spoil" a company's involvement in Smash at the Mii costume or spirit event level before their full character if they were planning on one. For example, they waited to do SNK Mii costumes until Terry was revealed. It seems relatively safe then, in my mind, to assume that those 3rd party companies that already have minor non-playable representation aren't getting a playable fighter this time around - Bethesda, Ubisoft, and Arc System Works, for example.

No, this isn't a fan "rule"; no, it's not "proven"; still, it makes a good degree of sense. Why wouldn't they just wait to do lesser content after more major content? Why ruin the surprise of "look who we're collaborating with this time"?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maaaaaan, who gives a ** about insiders anymore. who the ** cares

People who want some news. Any news. Unfortunately, reality is often disappointing.

EDIT: The macros thought the censored swears were a call to bold the text. lol

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

I generally agree. Like others have described, I don't see why they would "spoil" a company's involvement in Smash at the Mii costume or spirit event level before their full character if they were planning on one. For example, they waited to do SNK Mii costumes until Terry was revealed. It seems relatively safe then, in my mind, to assume that those 3rd party companies that already have minor non-playable representation aren't getting a playable fighter this time around - Bethesda, Ubisoft, and Arc System Works, for example.

No, this isn't a fan "rule"; no, it's not "proven"; still, it makes a good degree of sense. Why wouldn't they just wait to do lesser content after more major content? Why ruin the surprise of "look who we're collaborating with this time"?

Couldn't have said it better, myself. It is a shame some Geno fans don't seem to even think about this kind of logic.

 

[SKX31]

Actually there is something I'm wondering

When it comes to 3rd Parties (and even 1st parties in some cases) while the Character might be owned by 1 big Company technically (So Joker for Sega, Banjo for Microsoft), they are mostly owned by the Sub-Company (Atlus, Rare), it's just that the Sub-Company is owned by the Big Company

what I want to know is how different do you guys think working with a Sub-Company is from just working with the larger company at hand? To my knowledge, Sakurai and the team actually worked more with Rare than they did Microsoft. I'm also gonna assume the same thing happened with Atlus as well, along with possibly Bayonetta back in smash 4 with Platinum. Hell technically SNK could count because SNK is owned by a Chinese company I forgot the name of. Does this mean that sometimes it might be easier or harder to work with characters like these when compared to characters owned by the Big Company straight, like Sonic with Sega?

How would this also affect other characters as well? Like Tencent with Riot games, or WB Games with Netherrealm Studios. I'm just wondering the process of these things i guess

That Chinese company would be 37 Games. Yeah, that company's a giant question mark here in the West, I don't blame you for forgetting at all. They're a mobile / browser game company that's seen most of its successes in China. Not as big as the titans Tencent or NetEase (A-B's Chinese partner), but still big enough that they bought 80 % of SNK.

It's difficult to answer that question generally - albeit I'm guessing that Sakurai and co. primarily talk with the developers (Atlus, Rare, SNK) when working on the character since Sakurai did cooperate with Armor Project (DQ's developers) and appeared on a stream with Horii. The parent company would likely be involved with the behind-the-scenes stuff - inking deals, ensuring that music and assets can be safely used, etc. Phil Spencer did vocally support B-K's inclusion after all, and Nintendo did discuss with Microsoft as well.

I'd assume that that general structure would follow with situations like these.

People who want some news. Any news. Unfortunately, reality is often disappointing.

The overall silence has really amplified that - that combined with dreams being possibly an overwhelming factor... yeah.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Speaking of CacoMallow, which relates to Geno, anyone outside of the Geno thread talking about the "evidence" for Geno, or that he may even be in Ultimate? Like any other insiders or people?

No?

My point exactly. It seems most of the ones in the Geno thread seem to be talking about evidence and other things about Geno possibly being in Ultimate while no one else, not even insiders, have said much, if anything about Geno. It seems that the Geno thread are the only ones, or among the only ones thinking Geno will be in Ultimate.

 

[SharkLord]

Something I find interesting about the "Company's fighter before Miis" concept is that for SNK, Terry was the mascot, so it made sense to reveal him before the Miis. For Bethesda and Vault Boy, ArcSys and Kunio-Kun, and arguably Ubisoft with Altair and the Rabbids, they weren't their mascot and//or their biggest possible choice; Bethesda would usually be associated with Doomguy and Dovahkiin, ArcSys with Sol or Ragna, and Ubisoft with Rayman. Heck, Altair isn't even the face of Assassin's Creed, either; That would go to Ezio. It would make sense to reveal the fighter before the Miis, yes, but on the other hand, we haven't gotten any of those company's heavy hitters either (Aside from Resident Evil, RIP).

 

[MooMew64]

Speaking of CacoMallow, which relates to Geno, anyone outside of the Geno thread talking about the "evidence" for Geno, or that he may even be in Ultimate? Like any other insiders or people?

No?

My point exactly. It seems most of the ones in the Geno thread seem to be talking about evidence and other things about Geno possibly being in Ultimate while no one else, not even insiders, have said much, if anything about Geno. It seems that the Geno thread are the only ones, or among the only ones thinking Geno will be in Ultimate.

Well, to be fair, it is the Geno thread, so it makes sense they would dedicate their posts to being about Geno and if they believe he's in.

Whether or not he actually is in the game has yet to be seen, but just like any character, he is a potential choice. I personally don't think he is gonna make it, but that's just my personal opinion, I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking he will be in as long as you're respectful with your opinions and don't get upset with people who disagree with you.

 

[cosmicB]

Hence said, I believe the obscuring information on Nintendo's part and their possible use of leakbait would actually make Fatman's sources turn out, well, wrong.

It seems like those sources do not know Nintendo that well, too.

Low level insiders with any kind of Nintendo focus are likely aware of at least basic tactics Nintendo uses to obscure information. If someone goes into a ton of depth on their theories while utilizing insider information but never actually mentions that fact or the overwhelming prominence of leakbait in general, that leads me to 2 conclusions.

1. They're lying.
2. They're being lied to (or their contacts are).

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Well, to be fair, it is the Geno thread, so it makes sense they would dedicate their posts to being about Geno and if they believe he's in.

Whether or not he actually is in the game has yet to be seen, but just like any character, he is a potential choice. I personally don't think he is gonna make it, but that's just my personal opinion, I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking he will be in as long as you're respectful with your opinions and don't get upset with people who disagree with you.

Yeah, that is true. I was just saying.

Still, my point stands that not many, if any seem to be talking about Geno's chances. Insiders other than Fatman's sources have barely mentioned Geno, if anything. Outside the Geno-centric thread, I don't think there is much evidence that Geno is in. They could be twisting their evidence in their favor, for all we know.

Low level insiders with any kind of Nintendo focus are likely aware of at least basic tactics Nintendo uses to obscure information. If someone goes into a ton of depth on their theories while utilizing insider information but never actually mentions that fact or the overwhelming prominence of leakbait in general, that leads me to 2 conclusions.

1. They're lying.
2. They're being lied to (or their contacts are).

Low level insiders were the words I was looking for. Thank you.

That said, I don't think low level insiders would be accurate or have much knowledge on companies like Nintendo like higher level insiders do. I am thinking Fatman's sources are low level. I don't think they can be trusted, especially if they don't acknowledge leakbait. They seem like rookies, if you ask me.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Speaking of CacoMallow, which relates to Geno, anyone outside of the Geno thread talking about the "evidence" for Geno, or that he may even be in Ultimate? Like any other insiders or people?

No?

My point exactly. It seems most of the ones in the Geno thread seem to be talking about evidence and other things about Geno possibly being in Ultimate while no one else, not even insiders, have said much, if anything about Geno. It seems that the Geno thread are the only ones, or among the only ones thinking Geno will be in Ultimate.

Eh?

A lot of people in here think Geno is likely.

People don't have to talk about them all the time to think something is likely.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Eh?

A lot of people in here think Geno is likely.

People don't have to talk about them all the time to think something is likely.

You kind of missed the point.

My thoughts are as follows: Not many people, not even insiders seem to be mentioning Geno even, and the Geno thread, well, it may be possible that they are twisting the "evidence" they have to make it look like Geno will come, when any of the evidence can mean something else.

That said, it is not just this site, but outside the site. I have not seen one insider hint at Geno. Now, he could still get in, but seeing how Geno is not mentioned a lot by even, say, higher level insiders, compared to those here who may exaggerate his chances, even, I'd say Geno's chances may not be that great, especially if he isn't mentioned, predicted or even thought of by people and other insiders, let alone in the same way as Geno fans here if they do or did.

 

[cosmicB]

Low level insiders were the words I was looking for. Thank you.

That said, I don't think low level insiders would be accurate or have much knowledge on companies like Nintendo like higher level insiders do. I am thinking Fatman's sources are low level. I don't think they can be trusted, especially if they don't acknowledge leakbait. They seem like rookies, if you ask me.

I just use "low level" for convenience sake. There's not some career path with insiders where you start out just learning small time stuff and then move on to knowing the complete blueprints of Sakurai's house while getting a massive raise. There just happens to be a wide spectrum of positions that can net you inside information. Like someone who's a friend of a friend of someone that works at Nintendo could be a "low level insider". Something like that. I would consider myself only like a step or two above that back when I wrote for that site. It's basically a perpetual game of telephone, but where obstruction is entirely intentional somewhere along the pipeline.

Basically what I'm saying is there's a huge difference between someone hanging around in a ton of discords where actual industry people hang out and Doug Bowser.

 

[MooMew64]

Yeah, that is true. I was just saying.

Still, my point stands that not many, if any seem to be talking about Geno's chances. Insiders other than Fatman's sources have barely mentioned Geno, if anything. Outside the Geno-centric thread, I don't think there is much evidence that Geno is in. They could be twisting their evidence in their favor, for all we know.

Oh yeah, there's totally evidence twisting and selective hearing going on, but that happens with just about every character fandom in speculation. People are naturally going to want to read and see anything that may point to their character of choice, and they'll always be more inclined to believe these things and defend them. Heck, I've been guilty of it in the past.

There's nothing wrong with people having their own opinions on whose likely or what is and isn't evidence for a character, either. As I said before, you just got to remember to be respectful about it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You kind of missed the point.

My thoughts are as follows: Not many people, not even insiders seem to be mentioning Geno even, and the Geno thread, well, it may be possible that they are twisting the "evidence" they have to make it look like Geno will come, when any of the evidence can mean something else.

That said, it is not just this site, but outside the site. I have not seen one insider hint at Geno. Now, he could still get in, but seeing how Geno is not mentioned a lot by even, say, higher level insiders, compared to those here who may exaggerate his chances, even, I'd say Geno's chances may not be that great, especially if he isn't mentioned, predicted or even thought of by people and other insiders, let alone in the same way as Geno fans here if they do or did.

I mean, insider talk isn't really that great of an indicator on who's actually on the roster. If anything, they're better at telling us who's not on the roster since predictions are nearly always wrong. lol

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Oh yeah, there's totally evidence twisting and selective hearing going on, but that happens with just about every character fandom in speculation. People are naturally going to want to read and see anything that may point to their character of choice, and they'll always be more inclined to believe these things and defend them. Heck, I've been guilty of it in the past.

There's nothing wrong with people having their own opinions on whose likely or what is and isn't evidence for a character, either. As I said before, you just got to remember to be respectful about it.

Oh, I am respectful. Didn't say otherwise.

I just use "low level" for convenience sake. There's not some career path with insiders where you start out just learning small time stuff and then move on to knowing the complete blueprints of Sakurai's house while getting a massive raise. There just happens to be a wide spectrum of positions that can net you inside information. Like someone who's a friend of a friend of someone that works at Nintendo could be a "low level insider". Something like that. I would consider myself only like a step or two above that back when I wrote for that site. It's basically a perpetual game of telephone, but where obstruction is entirely intentional somewhere along the pipeline.

Basically what I'm saying is there's a huge difference between someone hanging around in a ton of discords where actual industry people hang out and Doug Bowser.

Well, I would still like to use the word low level. I still think that could be a thing in some different way. I do understand what you mean, though. I still think that guy's sources are low level, at least in the sense of not being so reliable. I don't think his sources are reliable.

I mean, insider talk isn't really that great of an indicator on who's actually on the roster. If anything, they're better at telling us who's not on the roster since predictions are nearly always wrong. lol

That makes sense. So agreed. You can't always rely on other people who call themselves insiders. Just because they are, doesn't mean they know everything, or even anything, maybe,

 

[Dinoman96]

I generally agree. Like others have described, I don't see why they would "spoil" a company's involvement in Smash at the Mii costume or spirit event level before their full character if they were planning on one. For example, they waited to do SNK Mii costumes until Terry was revealed. It seems relatively safe then, in my mind, to assume that those 3rd party companies that already have minor non-playable representation aren't getting a playable fighter this time around - Bethesda, Ubisoft, and Arc System Works, for example.

No, this isn't a fan "rule"; no, it's not "proven"; still, it makes a good degree of sense. Why wouldn't they just wait to do lesser content after more major content? Why ruin the surprise of "look who we're collaborating with this time"?

That's what I've been trying to tell people for awhile now.

It'd be like if Cloud and Hero weren't playable already but they did that Mana spirit event. I just don't see them giving away a big third party collaboration like that away if said third party was gonna get a character later on.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

He’s baaaaack

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yes his 2 PM last Friday thing was wrong, but he’s still doubling down on an Indies tomorrow basically

(You wanted me to change the subject sooo...)

Why did you have to bring that up? I don't think he is worth listening to.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That makes sense. So agreed. You can't always rely on other people who call themselves insiders. Just because they are, doesn't mean they know everything, or even anything, maybe,

Your conclusion isn't bad, though I do think you missed my point a little. Said point being that a character doesn't need "insider" talk about them in order to be likely.

 

[cosmicB]

You kind of missed the point.

My thoughts are as follows: Not many people, not even insiders seem to be mentioning Geno even, and the Geno thread, well, it may be possible that they are twisting the "evidence" they have to make it look like Geno will come, when any of the evidence can mean something else.

That said, it is not just this site, but outside the site. I have not seen one insider hint at Geno. Now, he could still get in, but seeing how Geno is not mentioned a lot by even, say, higher level insiders, compared to those here who may exaggerate his chances, even, I'd say Geno's chances may not be that great, especially if he isn't mentioned, predicted or even thought of by people and other insiders, let alone in the same way as Geno fans here if they do or did.

Geno's "evidence" is entirely circumstantial and making a ton of assumptions about the actions of public figures. Like before the indie direct, people were looking at Imran and Gameexplain people talking about Geno as equivalent to Shinobi talking about Banjo pre-E3 2019. Then there's the music takedowns, that one mod getting taken down, the Gamestop video, etc. It could mean something or it could all add up to absolutely nothing. I'm betting on the latter, at least as far as the evidence goes that doesn't involve actual Nintendo action like the takedowns, which could just as easily be simple IP protection which Nintendo is no stranger to.

I think Geno's chances are better than ever before, but I still think he caps out at a solid 50/50. I think he could get in and the evidence that people pointed to would still mean absolutely nothing.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

EDIT: The macros thought the censored swears were a call to bold the text. lol

"Enhance"

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Your conclusion isn't bad, though I do think you missed my point a little. Said point being that a character doesn't need "insider" talk about them in order to be likely.

Yeah, that is what I meant to acknowledge. Sorry.

Geno's "evidence" is entirely circumstantial and making a ton of assumptions about the actions of public figures. Like before the indie direct, people were looking at Imran and Gameexplain people talking about Geno as equivalent to Shinobi talking about Banjo pre-E3 2019. Then there's the music takedowns, that one mod getting taken down, the Gamestop video, etc. It could mean something or it could all add up to absolutely nothing. I'm betting on the latter, at least as far as the evidence goes that doesn't involve actual Nintendo action like the takedowns, which could just as easily be simple IP protection which Nintendo is no stranger to.

I think Geno's chances are better than ever before, but I still think he caps out at a solid 50/50. I think he could get in and the evidence that people pointed to would still mean absolutely nothing.

Exactly! Even if the evidence did mean something, it would not be as close to meaning what they think it means. Plus, the actions of public figures is just a facade that can hide something else that they really mean. The music takedowns and the mods could be unrelated to Geno getting in. I mean, for the former, it has been a while, and Geno still has not shown up then. It could be just IP protection. Not doubting Geno's chances, but I don't think he is as likely as some make him out to be.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

A big insider could directly tell me Layton was coming to smash and I still would say I Dont believe a single thing they say

 

[SnowClaws]

Actually there is something I'm wondering

When it comes to 3rd Parties (and even 1st parties in some cases) while the Character might be owned by 1 big Company technically (So Joker for Sega, Banjo for Microsoft), they are mostly owned by the Sub-Company (Atlus, Rare), it's just that the Sub-Company is owned by the Big Company

what I want to know is how different do you guys think working with a Sub-Company is from just working with the larger company at hand? To my knowledge, Sakurai and the team actually worked more with Rare than they did Microsoft. I'm also gonna assume the same thing happened with Atlus as well, along with possibly Bayonetta back in smash 4 with Platinum. Hell technically SNK could count because SNK is owned by a Chinese company I forgot the name of. Does this mean that sometimes it might be easier or harder to work with characters like these when compared to characters owned by the Big Company straight, like Sonic with Sega?

How would this also affect other characters as well? Like Tencent with Riot games, or WB Games with Netherrealm Studios. I'm just wondering the process of these things i guess

It is very easy with to work with the publisher, but it is often difficult to work with the developer (sub-company).

For example, this was my response for why Master Chief couldn't appear in Smash:

The only possible reason for Master Chief not appearing in Smash is if it conflicts with the Halo storyline on where Master Chief was at the time during the stories. This is proven when Team Ninja asks Bungle for the appearance of Master Chief, and they ends up with a original character called Spartan-458 (Nicole). Master Chief could have appears in Dead or Alive 4 if wasn't for that restriction.

Source for the archive.

Now I know Bungle is not in control of Halo anymore, and it is 343 Industries, but 343 Industries is comprised of former Bungle workers and they could ultimately decide whether or not Master Chief can appears in Smash. BTW, do anyone remember the Halo Infinite trailer at E3 2019, and where Master Chief was at the time of the stories? Well, he was in cryosleep in space, and this reason could causes a conflict with him appearing in Smash if this restriction is still in place.

This is the followup response when someone fully understood the original intent behind the message:

Thank you for reading the entire message, and I did some further research to expand the topic a bit.

I kind of forget that Arbiter appears in Killer Instinct, and not Master Chief. So, history sort of repeat with this since Arbiter in Killer Instinct isn't a pre-existing character, and therefore it is non-canon to the Halo lore just like how the Spartan in DoA 4 (though the character itself is canon, and the DoA 4 part is non-canon).

To summarize, the Spartan-458 in DoA 4 (Bungle) and the Aribiter in KI (343) only appears in these game due to them not conflicting with the Halo storyline/canon.

After I post these responses, I went to do more research on what else 343i did with the Halo franchise and if they causes any controversy recently. And I found this controversy that was post 3 months ago, and it basically boil to 343i not Microsoft that causes this issues. Remember 343i is the one who currently control the Halo assets after Bungle left Microsoft and can determine whether or not someone else can property uses the very same asset from Halo into their own project like Red vs Blue or into a fighting game like DoA or KI.

The only time Master Chief the character have officially appears in a actual crossover for a video game was Super Bomberman R as a Microsoft exclusive character. Even then, that MC is a alternate take/counterpart, and therefore this alternate character doesn't conflict with the supposedly 343i/Bungle's reason for why MC can't appears in other games as the current Halo timeline/canon isn't conflicted. This is also another reason for why MC can appears as a character skin in Minecraft as that appearance doesn't involved the Halo timeline/canon.

Microsoft can be a easy publisher that Nintendo can worked with, but 343i is the one who could pose the bigger problem for why Master Chief can't appear in Smash unless Nintendo is okay with the suggestion of Master Chief being a Mii Costume for a Mii Fighter. Master Chief being a spirit isn't possible since it involve the actual likeness of such character and this conflict with Bungle/343i on the whole Halo timeline/canon. I wouldn't be surprise if Master Chief didn't appears in the current Fighter Pass 2 or any future Smash game(s) as along as the suppose Halo timeline/canon is involved.

Once again, I am perfectly okay with anyone joining Smash if it makes in context.

 

[7NATOR]

Geno's "evidence" is entirely circumstantial and making a ton of assumptions about the actions of public figures. Like before the indie direct, people were looking at Imran and Gameexplain people talking about Geno as equivalent to Shinobi talking about Banjo pre-E3 2019. Then there's the music takedowns, that one mod getting taken down, the Gamestop video, etc. It could mean something or it could all add up to absolutely nothing. I'm betting on the latter, at least as far as the evidence goes that doesn't involve actual Nintendo action like the takedowns, which could just as easily be simple IP protection which Nintendo is no stranger to.

I think Geno's chances are better than ever before, but I still think he caps out at a solid 50/50. I think he could get in and the evidence that people pointed to would still mean absolutely nothing.

On the IP Protection thing though, The music Takedowns are weird because don't Square own the music to SMRPG? I think that's why it was weird for Nintendo themselves to take it down.

As for Legacy XP being takendown, could be Asset protection because the mod does use the Assets of Brawl, but it also brings into question of why not take down the other mods. Plus Legacy XP was actually at it's Apex popularity, which was May of 2018, when the New Smash wasn't even revealed to be Ultimate, and the mod had Ridley in it. The fact they took it down 2 years later when it's not at is most popular is something to consider. There's also some popular mods like Project + that are still up.

Then again, it's also weird they don't go for Mods that directly port Ultimate characters into Brawl, like the Joker Mod.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On the IP Protection thing though, The music Takedowns are weird because don't Square own the music to SMRPG? I think that's why it was weird for Nintendo themselves to take it down.

As for Legacy XP being takendown, could be Asset protection because the mod does use the Assets of Brawl, but it also brings into question of why not take down the other mods. Plus Legacy XP was actually at it's Apex popularity, which was May of 2018, when the New Smash wasn't even revealed to be Ultimate, and the mod had Ridley in it. The fact they took it down 2 years later when it's not at is most popular is something to consider. There's also some popular mods like Project + that are still up.

Then again, it's also weird they don't go for Mods that directly port Ultimate characters into Brawl, like the Joker Mod.

it was probably cause the mod had Ridley, when you think about it

 

[7NATOR]

It is very easy with to work with the publisher, but it is often difficult to work with the developer (sub-company).

For example, this was my response for why Master Chief couldn't appear in Smash:



This is the followup response when someone fully understood the original intent behind the message:



After I post these responses, I went to do more research on what else 343i did with the Halo franchise and if they causes any controversy recently. And I found this controversy that was post 3 months ago, and it basically boil to 343i not Microsoft that causes this issues. Remember 343i is the one who currently control the Halo assets after Bungle left Microsoft and can determine whether or not someone else can property uses the very same asset from Halo into their own project like Red vs Blue or into a fighting game like DoA or KI.

The only time Master Chief the character have officially appears in a actual crossover for a video game was Super Bomberman R as a Microsoft exclusive character. Even then, that MC is a alternate take/counterpart, and therefore this alternate character doesn't conflict with the supposedly 343i/Bungle's reason for why MC can't appears in other games as the current Halo timeline/canon isn't conflicted. This is also another reason for why MC can appears as a character skin in Minecraft as that appearance doesn't involved the Halo timeline/canon.

Microsoft can be a easy publisher that Nintendo can worked with, but 343i is the one who could pose the bigger problem for why Master Chief can't appear in Smash unless Nintendo is okay with the suggestion of Master Chief being a Mii Costume for a Mii Fighter. Master Chief being a spirit isn't possible since it involve the actual likeness of such character and this conflict with Bungle/343i on the whole Halo timeline/canon. I wouldn't be surprise if Master Chief didn't appears in the current Fighter Pass 2 or any future Smash game(s) as along as the suppose Halo timeline/canon is involved.

Once again, I am perfectly okay with anyone joining Smash if it makes in context.

Ahh. but didn't the Halo Twitter Account suggest they were down for Chief in Smash. Then again that is just the Halo Twitter Account, So I don't know

Also couldn't there be some workaround for the lore thing. like you said Chief appears in Super Bomberman R and in Minecraft, and exists as an alternate take. could the same thing be applied to Smash? I mean, Personally I would hate to see the main reason Chief couldn't be i Smash was because 343 is really serious about the lore

it was probably cause the mod had Ridley, when you think about it

but that's the thing, The best time to take it down would have been in may of 2018, when the mod was the most popular and had Ridley in it, and also a month before Ridley was officially revealed for Ultimate. If they took down the mod, I can't imagine it was for Ridley

 

[XorahnGaia]

Weren't the music takedowns limited to only one channel that was already experiencing a lot of takedowns for other Nintendo music though? I remember that this was a common counterpoint when this thing first came to light a year ago, but I supposed it would be pretty difficult to check right now

 

[TwiceEXE]

Isn't there zero evidence that Legacy XP was taken down for legal reasons? The simple explanation is that the team was finished working on it so they stopped.

 

[Lamperouge]

Why did you have to bring that up? I don't think he is worth listening to.

Why not? It's just another thing to share a laugh over when he's most likely proven wrong again.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Why not? It's just another thing to share a laugh over when he's most likely proven wrong again.

I actually think it’s pretty impressive when leakers double down after being proven wrong the first time. Most just flee with their tail between their legs and are never heard from again (like Mandy and Loz18)

 

[chocolatejr9]

I actually think it’s pretty impressive when leakers double down after being proven wrong the first time. Most just flee with their tail between their legs and are never heard from again (like Mandy and Loz18)

Some people don't know when to call it quits, huh?

Anyway, I'm still paranoid about a Midnight announcement. That's just straight up traumatised me.

 

[7NATOR]

Isn't there zero evidence that Legacy XP was taken down for legal reasons? The simple explanation is that the team was finished working on it so they stopped.

Well this was a thought i Also had, however there were 3 things with that

1. It's not just that the game stopped development, Download links were also Taken down and such.

2. While one of the people that worked on the game said Nintendo had nothing to do with it's demise, another person that also worked on the game said the opposite of that. very weird

3. What Papagenos said about there being some evidence for Geno or Waluigi being playable in Smash. The common speculation was that Legacy XP was the thing involved (since both of those characters are in it), and Papagenos came out and said that people have guessed the evidence correctly, but he can't say


I think there is merit to the takedown being because something is coming to Ultimate that was in Legacy XP. I do think there's also merit that the game just got taken down just because. Like I said, I'm surprised Nintendo hasn't gone for Brawl mods of Ultimate DLC Characters like Joker