Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Pokemon is more or less a franchise that has expanded well beyond just the games themselves. We're still pretty early into this Gen, not even a year in, so we'll see what happens. Like a lot of people I have mixed feelings towards Sword/Shield, but I feel that's something that's neither here nor there for this specific thread.

Mixed feelings towards Sword/Shield themselves as a game aside, I think I'm more hyped for a potential Smash rep from the games than I was with Gen 6/7. Would be cool with any of the starters as playable reps and I feel that several of the Legendary Pokemon would make great choices as well. I definitely have a bias towards Rillaboom/Zarude as Grass types, and if it wasn't for Spirits I'd totally be all in on Zacian.

Promotional picks are kind of a moot complaint at this point given how both the previous and upcoming DLC seasons have been chosen.


Also I would totally trade a year or two of new Pokemon games if it meant Game Freak were to make a new Quinty, Pulseman, or Drill Dozer game. Game Freak makes good titles outside of Pokemon and I'd love to see them explored again. Game Freak's YT channel & Ken Sugimori's Twitter teases always get me fired up.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Colloseum and XD are in fact mainline.

If they play like a mainline title, feel like a mainline title and you can trade with mainline titles then they are mainline games

Neat theory. Not how it works.

 

[Garteam]

Regardless of where they are in the series, Colosseum and XD are some of my favourite Pokemon games and definitely deserve a lot more attention. They've got a cool setting, some unique, (mostly) well thought out mechanics, and take a lot of advantage of the double battle formula It's downright criminal that the only modern acknowledgement that subseries has is a costume for Mewtwo in Smash.

If Pokemon Mystery Dungeon can get a remake and Snap can get a sequel, then XD/Colosseum can get something.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Colloseum and XD are in fact mainline.

I wish but sadly they arent

Regardless of where they are in the series, Colosseum and XD are some of my favourite Pokemon games and definitely deserve a lot more attention. They've got a cool setting, some unique, (mostly) well thought out mechanics, and take a lot of advantage of the double battle formula It's downright criminal that the only modern acknowledgement that subseries has is a costume for Mewtwo in Smash.

If Pokemon Mystery Dungeon can get a remake and Snap can get a sequel, then XD/Colosseum can get something.

I think GF forgot Orre region existed. Its the child they gave birth to and then after a day, they forgot it in its crib crying

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Regardless of where they are in the series, Colosseum and XD are some of my favourite Pokemon games and definitely deserve a lot more attention. They've got a cool setting, some unique, (mostly) well thought out mechanics, and take a lot of advantage of the double battle formula It's downright criminal that the only modern acknowledgement that subseries has is a costume for Mewtwo in Smash.

If Pokemon Mystery Dungeon can get a remake and Snap can get a sequel, then XD/Colosseum can get something.

I'd hesitate to even call the alt costume a reference. It's seems more like inverted Mewtwo or alluding to Shadow Mewtwo.

I think the Colosseum and XD games are doomed to obscurity now that the Mainline Pokemon games are on the Switch. The mystery dungeon remake at least has the excuse of being a different genre.

While we're off topic, Pokemon games could really do with a New game + feature. You keep all the Pokemon in your box, traded pokemon will obey right away, no cutscenes, tackle any gym you want but their levels stay the same.

Also a Trainer Class mode would be cool. You play as any NPC and can only use a preset team and catch pokemon that are relevant to their trainer class like a Hiker can only use Rock and Ground types or a Swimmer only using Water type pokemon, then you try to beat the game as fast as you can.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I still feel like the idea of a Gen 8 rep definitely coming is still a bit misplaced especially in the wake of Byleth. Sword/Shield are performing outstandingly as individual titles as is Animal Crossing New Horizons, but I have my doubts about Nintendo choosing to implement newcomers for either game into Ultimate's final season of DLC after they also had no problem giving both titles Spirit battles that doesn't fit with how they handled Three Houses in Pass 1. In general, both series received pretty notable base game content with Isabelle and Incineroar both being two of the few unique newcomers that Ultimate added, and the only ones seemingly without any connections to requests. That's not to say Nintendo necessarily cares about fair representation, they certainly don't and have shown that over the years, and that's not to say they can't add more content on existing content either.

But I am saying, with the content added in base game, Nintendo may be more than happy to invest in other opportunities despite the massive success of these Switch titles. There's Xenoblade Chronicles and Zelda for less built upon series in Ultimate, and there's also just always all of the third party options they could go with as well to work with other companies and make more dream match-ups happen. Again, it's a little odd how often I see people discuss how they expect out of the left field and if we're talking too much about a character, we're going to get blindsided, but Pokemon so rarely gets the same treatment in conversation. Sure, Pokemon is absolutely a juggernaut and always will be, but it's also interesting to consider the reality where Gen 8 actually gets passed on for a playable fighter.

 

[RetroBro]

I'm not 100% sure about a SW/SH rep even though it's expected. That ship might have already sailed? No idea... It's strange considering that fighter pass 1 didn't have a pokemon rep even though they've had plenty of time to include one.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I suspect in the minds of some, an expectation of a Gen 8 rep is to avoid another Byleth situation; i.e. best to prepare oneself for it now to avoid any potential surprise disappointment if/when it does happen. Not unlike a kid readying themselves for the one Christmas present that's likely going to be socks.

 

[PeridotGX]

just saying, there was never a spirit event for PMD DX, which could actually use the promotion...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

just saying, there was never a spirit event for PMD DX, which could actually use the promotion...

Gengar for Smash?

 

[Perkilator]

There’s a thread for people to create a Challenger Pack, if anyone’s interested.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I feel like the idea of a Gen 8 Pokemon in Smash is only taken seriously because we got Byleth as a character. Most of the time I see it not as genuine hope for one of the Pokemon to get in but rather a cynical, "Realistic" option as to not get disappointed. While the possibility it can still happen is there, I have a gut feeling we may not get a Gen 8 Pokemon. I could be wrong but something about a Sword/Shield rep being seen as a cynical choice as opposed to a genuine want most of the time irks me a bit for some reason.

 

[Calamitas]

just saying, there was never a spirit event for PMD DX, which could actually use the promotion...

Gengar for Smash?

Nah, for Rescue Team DX, there's only one good choice for a playable fighter.




And that's Xatu!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I feel like the idea of a Gen 8 Pokemon in Smash is only taken seriously because we got Byleth as a character. Most of the time I see it not as genuine hope for one of the Pokemon to get in but rather a cynical, "Realistic" option as to not get disappointed. While the possibility it can still happen is there, I have a gut feeling we may not get a Gen 8 Pokemon. I could be wrong but something about a Sword/Shield rep being seen as a cynical choice as opposed to a genuine want most of the time irks me a bit for some reason.

It's not just people being cynical, it's also people wanting to be right. Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters get support threads made on the day of their announcements when all we know is their name and their design. They're doing it because they expect it to happen and want to be able to brag about how right they were from the very beginning despite knowing literally nothing about the character when they made the support thread

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I do think it’s interesting that Pokémon is the “exception” to what we consider to be a disconfirmation, that being based on how Spirits were handled not only for events, but for lack of events. Three Houses didn’t have an event, and didn’t have a debatable reason to not have an event. This led to Byleth in the roster. Sword & Shield had an event, which normally would be considered a disconfirmation.

I mean, I can’t personally say that I think Pokémon should be disconfirmed. It’s Pokémon. However, it shouldn’t seem as an inevitability either. It could very well not get a playable character, but in general it seems like it could go either way.

Not to say any particular person was saying/doing as such, I just don’t think there’s enough to suggest it’s happening for now. All we know is, is that typically, a post-launch spirit event more or less seems to suggest you don’t get a character. That’s been pretty typical.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Quick question. I've been told that we usually get an Indie World showcase in August, and a Direct sometime afterwards. When exactly in August does the Indie World showcase happen? It may or may not help with theorising when the next Direct will be.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I do think it’s interesting that Pokémon is the “exception” to what we consider to be a disconfirmation, that being based on how Spirits were handled not only for events, but for lack of events. Three Houses didn’t have an event, and didn’t have a debatable reason to not have an event. This led to Byleth in the roster. Sword & Shield had an event, which normally would be considered a disconfirmation.

I mean, I can’t personally say that I think Pokémon should be disconfirmed. It’s Pokémon. However, it shouldn’t seem as an inevitability either. It could very well not get a playable character, but in general it seems like it could go either way.

The reasons why I think Pokémon could easily be an exception are thus:

1. It's Pokémon.
2. It's pretty likely that these are series 1 Spirits, and that likely wouldn't affect series 2 DLC.
3. Pokémon is a 1st party franchise, so they wouldn't be negotiating rights just to negotiate rights again for a character.
4. None of the realistic candidates actually got Spirits, and there are still a ton of options for the Spirit Board.
5. Even if they wanted one of the currently inspirited characters, they can quite easily add them anyway.

It's not a guarantee, but I think it's very much not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Calamitas]

Quick question. I've been told that we usually get an Indie World showcase in August, and a Direct sometime afterwards. When exactly in August does the Indie World showcase happen? It may or may not help with theorising when the next Direct will be.

There was an Indie World presentation on August 19th last year, and we currently have one rumored for this Monday (17th), I think. Other than that, there haven't been any Indie World presentations in August, as far as I can tell.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not 100% sure about a SW/SH rep even though it's expected. That ship might have already sailed? No idea... It's strange considering that fighter pass 1 didn't have a pokemon rep even though they've had plenty of time to include one.

Honestly I'm not betting on a Pokemon rep. I'm cool if it happens but nothing so far really makes me lean in that direction. Gen 8 has some cool designs though so I really wouldn't mind it happening

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I'd be OK with Sw/Sh rep if only because 9 times out of 10 Pokemon fighters, stages and music are all pretty great, so you'd get good bang for your buck.

 

[cashregister9]

I think a Galar Wild Area stage could be pretty darn cool NGL that is lowkey the reason I want a Gen 8 rep

 

[MooMew64]

I just want Cinderace and SwSh's amazing soundtrack.

Gimme the fire bunny with a rockin' remix of Marnie's theme.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The reasons why I think Pokémon could easily be an exception are thus:

1. It's Pokémon.
2. It's pretty likely that these are series 1 Spirits, and that likely wouldn't affect series 2 DLC.
3. Pokémon is a 1st party franchise, so they wouldn't be negotiating rights just to negotiate rights again for a character.
4. None of the realistic candidates actually got Spirits, and there are still a ton of options for the Spirit Board.
5. Even if they wanted one of the currently inspirited characters, they can quite easily add them anyway.

It's not a guarantee, but I think it's very much not out of the realm of possibility.

1. We agree then

2. I disagree in the “series” mindset when the initial spirits were decided upon/added during talks to get Volume 2, which is speculated to have been negotiated for between June-November 2019. Pokémon Spirits came within that time frame.

3. Fair, though this assumes it’s a problem to them. I’m not sure thats there’s much reason to think this is the case.

4. Even so, why add the spirits anyway? It makes sense in order to advertise it, but Three Houses didn’t add Spirits around release.

5. That’s not the argument, the argument is “if they were planned, why add them as a spirit anyway?” We’re talking spirits that were added around the time Volume 2 was planned and properties were acquired, and again, this isn’t what they did with Three Houses.

 

[SKX31]

I still feel like the idea of a Gen 8 rep definitely coming is still a bit misplaced especially in the wake of Byleth. Sword/Shield are performing outstandingly as individual titles as is Animal Crossing New Horizons, but I have my doubts about Nintendo choosing to implement newcomers for either game into Ultimate's final season of DLC after they also had no problem giving both titles Spirit battles that doesn't fit with how they handled Three Houses in Pass 1. In general, both series received pretty notable base game content with Isabelle and Incineroar both being two of the few unique newcomers that Ultimate added, and the only ones seemingly without any connections to requests. That's not to say Nintendo necessarily cares about fair representation, they certainly don't and have shown that over the years, and that's not to say they can't add more content on existing content either.

But I am saying, with the content added in base game, Nintendo may be more than happy to invest in other opportunities despite the massive success of these Switch titles. There's Xenoblade Chronicles and Zelda for less built upon series in Ultimate, and there's also just always all of the third party options they could go with as well to work with other companies and make more dream match-ups happen. Again, it's a little odd how often I see people discuss how they expect out of the left field and if we're talking too much about a character, we're going to get blindsided, but Pokemon so rarely gets the same treatment in conversation. Sure, Pokemon is absolutely a juggernaut and always will be, but it's also interesting to consider the reality where Gen 8 actually gets passed on for a playable fighter.

Well, there's the expectation that comes with Pokemon's presence in Smash. The only gens that didn't get a character in are 3, 5 and 8 so far. So not only has people gotten used to it, but Pokemon's also become something of a evergreen / clockwork franchise, where the new 'Mons and mechanics are often tied together and the anime and merchandise follow suit somewhat. I don't want to call Pokemon "Nintendo's FIFA" (Or "Nintendo's Madden") because the comparision is not 1:1... but there are quite a few similarities between Pokemon and EA Sports at this point (extensive cross-promotion, dominance within the respective genre / niché, follows a certain gameplay formula with tweaks between games).

I don't find it that surprising that a lot of people within the speculation community expect a Gen 8 Pokemon in FP2.

Meanwhile, Sakurai and co. haven't managed to answer the question of "Which non-Triforce wielder should be the first playable?" - a fact that's not helped by Midna, Ghirahim and Skull Kid being maintained as ATs for quite a while. Doesn't disqualify a non-Triforce wielder from the playable roster of course, but the status quo has not resolved the question. That does dampen any expectations some.

I do think it's partly due to the relative lack of spin-offs with Zelda (and thus few chances for many Zelda characters to re-appear and consequently few chances for Nintendo to gauge a character's longevity outside of Impa... who they haven't really commited to either so far). I can understand why Nintendo didn't do this previously: badly made spinoffs can certainly leave a sour taste, and Nintendo probably had no interest for a long time after seeing what happened with the CD-i license.

Zelda spin-offs have become more common recently - so that might help change the situation re: non-Triforce wielders as playable in Smash. Even so, Sakurai and Nintendo might proceed more cautiously than they do with Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I just want the SwSh gym theme in smash with the Dynamax part starting when the match is close to ending (1 min/stock left)

 

[Deleted member]

I just want Cinderace and SwSh's amazing soundtrack.

Gimme the fire bunny with a rockin' remix of Marnie's theme.

If there's anything I can praise Pokemon for, it's the pokmeon design and soundtrack ngl

 

[MooMew64]

Real talk, Pokemon's a weird case. We have information direct from Sakurai that Pokemon gets a preferential treatment at least for basegame. but does this extend to DLC? By all accounts, the SwSh spirits should be a deconfirm for a SwSh Pokemon, but there's enough room that Pokemon could wiggle out of the predicament it's in by the virtue that it's Pokemon and has many, many extra things to pull from for another set of SwSh Spirits.

 

[Cosmic77]

For every person who thought Gen 8 was out of the running, I'm sure there were five more who'd have told you that anyone who still thought an ARMS character was happening was living in denial. It seemed so unlikely to happen, and yet here we are. An ARMS character was the very first character in the second pass.

A Gen 8 rep could happen, or maybe it won't. Either way, I don't think the Spirit event alone is the best indicator of things to come. Keep in mind that it could be close to a year since that event first started before we get our second character. By the time we get our fifth or sixth fighter, it could be close to two years. The Gen 8 rep could be any fighter 7 through 11 and still have a decent gap between itself and the Spirit event. Thanks to Min Min, we also know that any of the four Spirits could easily be used in future Spirit boards, so it's not like time was wasted at any point. If they wanted to promote SwSh, it makes more sense for them to release a Spirit event close to launch than it does for them to wait up to two years for the character.

I'm not even sure the specific Pokemon chosen for the Spirits should be considered out of the running like people assume they are. Just because the DLC was selected in advance doesn't mean Sakurai had already chosen which Pokemon he'd turn into a fighter. Incineroar wasn't decided on until after USUM, which was close to one year before Ultimate launched. Sakurai might've done the same with SwSh so he could get a better understanding of the Pokemon. If that's the case, then the only way the Spirits would be deconfirmations is if Sakurai absolutely 100% knew he wouldn't be choosing any of those Pokemon. Yes, that's a possibility, but I'd say the simpler explanation is that Sakurai made Spirits of some of the most promotable Pokemon for Gen 8. The Legendaries and starters are essentially the mascots of SwSh, and Corviknight was one of the first Pokemon they revealed. Morpeko is a little more random, but it's the latest addition to the Pikachu family, sooo...I guess I can understand why they'd choose it.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The franchises that could most benefit from Smash publicity don't even make it onto the roster.

I'd do this with more Nintendo franchises like Wars, Rhythm Heaven, etc but I can't even find sad fanart of them (or barely any fanart in general) because of the lack of publicity.

Oh wait, here's a crying Rhythm Heaven bear and a fried circuit Chibi Robo.

 

[Goombaic]

I'd be lying if I said that Pokemon has no obstacles in its path and is 100% guaranteed to be in the pass. I'm still pretty confident to say that Toxtricity or at least another Pokemon will be in the pass, but the spirit event does put a massive dent to the chances of that happening.

In terms of content I'd like to see in it, the template I made for Toxtricity is basically mostly what I want. There's a lot of Pokemon that could be chosen as spirits and whether the stage is another Pokemon Stadium or the Wild Area, I'm up for it. As for music, I might literally be the only person who likes SwSh and that thinks the soundtrack is its biggest disappointment, so I don't really care what tracks are in other than Gym Battle and Battle Tower theme.

 

[Perkilator]

Personally, I don’t see how the biggest media franchise in the world is going to let a Spirit Event hold it back. Being a video game first (and Nintendo-published, at that), I’m sure SwSh might at least get a rep closer to the end of Vol. 2.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It’s not so much the Spirit Event that makes me doubt a Gen 8, as the fact that we’ve never had a Pokémon newcomer for DLC. Mewtwo was a Veteran when he was DLC for 4.

maybe its something to do with Game Freak, idk

meanwhile Fire Emblem getting DLC newcomers (at least one) seems to be the norm since Corrin

 

[Opossum]

Personally, I don’t see how the biggest media franchise in the world is going to let a Spirit Event hold it back. Being a video game first (and Nintendo-published, at that), I’m sure SwSh might at least get a rep closer to the end of Vol. 2.

The argument isn't "they can't add a Galar Pokémon because of the spirits." It's "why would they do a Sword and Shield spirit event in the first place if a Galar Pokémon was planned?"

So saying "they won't let a few spirits stop them" is failing to address the actual argument.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

It’s not so much the Spirit Event that makes me doubt a Gen 8, as the fact that we’ve never had a Pokémon newcomer for DLC. Mewtwo was a Veteran when he was DLC for 4.

maybe its something to do with Game Freak, idk

meanwhile Fire Emblem getting DLC newcomers (at least one) seems to be the norm since Corrin

I alrady said it, but it's not a really good argument. We only have one game with DLC and it's Smash 4, and it's dlc cycle ends before the release of the new Pokémon gen (ending early 2016 with Bayo and Corrin, Sun/moon released late 2016). I don't see why "if it didn't happen last game it won't happen" is even an argument. That would be the same thing as if I said "Arms can't get in as DLC because we've never had new first party franchises as DLC". It just didn't happen because Smash 4 dlc cycle was so short that there wasn't any opportunity for it.

If we had like 3-4 games with dlc and none of them had Pokémon I might have buy it but with only one game to look for pattern... that's not really a pattern actually, things might change.

 

[osby]

It’s not so much the Spirit Event that makes me doubt a Gen 8, as the fact that we’ve never had a Pokémon newcomer for DLC. Mewtwo was a Veteran when he was DLC for 4.

maybe its something to do with Game Freak, idk

meanwhile Fire Emblem getting DLC newcomers (at least one) seems to be the norm since Corrin

To be fair, Fire Emblem (along with Super Mario if you count PP) is the only Nintendo franchise to get DLC newcomers in the first place.

You can say the same thing for Zelda, Xenoblade, Kirby, etc. It's not something unique to Pokemon.

 

[Cosmic77]

The argument isn't "they can't add a Galar Pokémon because of the spirits." It's "why would they do a Sword and Shield spirit event in the first place if a Galar Pokémon was planned?"

So saying "they won't let a few spirits stop them" is failing to address the actual argument.

I see people say, "They wouldn't have a Spirit event for SwSh if they were adding a Gen 8 Pokemon." At the same time, I see a lot of people say, "If they add a Pokemon from SwSh, it's because they want to promote it."

Unless the next character is our SwSh rep, the ideal window for promoting SwSh will have passed. If Sakurai waited until the character was ready before releasing all of the relevant Spirits, we'd likely be in 2021 where Crown Tundra had been out for several months already.

Spirits aren't that much of a hassle to make. If they truly wanted to promote SwSh, releasing four Spirits close to the launch of said game is a much better method than waiting one to two years later when you can release all of the content together.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think there’s a misunderstanding of the argument.

Spirits as disconfirmations isn’t that a property can’t get a playable character because of a simple png. That’s silly. The argument is based more on the timing of events, and potential mindset/circumstances. For Octopath Traveler, for example, they added the entire main cast. This suggests that Octopath Traveler, as a game, is out of the running. This is logical, as you probably wouldn’t add the entire cast as spirits if you were adding a playable character: you’d save them for the whole Challenger Pack.

Pokémon is different, mainly because it has 4 spirits that don’t necessarily tap into a playable character type role, especially with characters like Cinderace missing. This leaves an open possibility for a playable fighter. There’s also the argument that the spirits were dropped to coincide with release, and I think that’s fair, though Three Houses didn’t do that for their release. With the timing, the spirits were dropped in the middle of what is speculated to be the time in which Volume 2 was decided (June-November 2019).

I’m not necessarily against a Pokémon pick. I enjoyed Sword/Shield and have sunk...way more hours than I should have into Pokémon as a series. I don’t really have an issue with Pokémon getting a new character, as it can bring in just as many new things as Fire Emblem Three Houses did. I would prefer “new” things that “feel” new, like Gen 8 music, Galar region stage, and of course a character. Realistically I think if ANY post-launch spirit event were to occur with a planned fighter coming from the same game/series later on, Pokémon would be the one. None of the others really seem to make sense.

I can see Pokémon happening, but will it? It’s hard to say.

 

[zumaddy]

Usually I'd be OK with the regular starter rep for a new generation, but SwSh were the first games where I don't particularly love any of the final evolutions. Cinderace and Inteleon are OK but bland or have strange design choices, and Rillaboom appears fine in 2d art but looks awkward in 3D + looks like he should be a DK rep. And I didn't pick up the DLC so I have no idea about Urshifu - are they OK?

Incineroar's still going to be the coolest Smash Pokemon, anyway ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Can't wait for it to be like October of next year, on the brink of fighter 11, and still debating over a Gen 8 rep's chances

 

[Mushroomguy12]

When everyone keeps talking about a Pokemon Gen 8 rep constantly but your series has virtually died in terms of speculation despite the fact that your spirit events literally came out back to back.

Yes yes, I know why..... (3rd Party, difference in size, yada yada). Still think it's unfair.