Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SharkLord]

Honestly, I don't see any issue with Geralt. The games have become the main part of the franchise that people talk about, and succeeded enough that Wild Hunt has been put at the top of Game of the Decade lists (Or so I'm told). I don't think Nintendo cares about "Game crossover integrity" or whatnot; If they think The Witcher is a game series that they could profit off of with a Smash crossover, that's all the reason they'll need.

How about Dynasty Warriors? It’s Koei-Techmo’s most popular series and all it’s characters are adaptations of public domain semi-historical figures.

I mean, if we can get Dracula with fireballs and a giant demon transformation, we should be able to get Lu Bu and his crazy anime explosions or whatever he does without any issue.

Alright here is an interesting game. Here are the characters listed in alphabetical order.

Spoiler: Spoilered because long

A -
B -
C -
D -
E - None
F -
G -
H -
I -
J -
K -
L -
M -
N -
O -
P -
Q - None
R -
S -
T -
U - None
V -
W -
X - None
Y -
Z -

Let me know if I missed any. I almost missed Duck Hunt.

So basically there are no characters with a name that starts with the letters E, Q, U or X. Can you think of any characters you like that have a name that start with those letters? If that's too difficult (I can't think of any), name some characters for letters that have three or less characters like A, F, G, etc.

Actually, Mario starts with an X because he is actually Italian Xehanort, as demonstrated in this video:

 

[Droodle]

One thing is for certain though. If Geralt/Saber got into Smash, they would bring in some sick music with them. They got my support for that.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Actually, Mario starts with an X because he is actually Italian Xehanort, as demonstrated in this video:

That's implying that the entire Smash roster isn't already Xehanort.

"But Palutena is the Goddess of Light"

Bold of you to assume he wouldn't find an overly complicated way that would take 3 games to explain to make sure the darkness is disguised as light.

 

[RileyXY1]

If Geralt is considered eligible because many people know him more as a "video game character" rather than a book character; then by that same logic would Saber be considered ineligible because many people know her more as a "anime character" rather than a game character? Or do they both approach a gray line?

I personally don't think Geralt is happening because IIRC the books aren't even all that unpopular and in Europe, they were quite successful even before the game series started. But I know that's just me, but I'm curious as to see what other people think.

It's a very bad argument and could be used against a variety of different series, such as Digimon, which itself is in a gray area.

 

[SharkLord]

That's implying that the entire Smash roster isn't already Xehanort.

"But Palutena is the Goddess of Light"

Bold of you to assume he wouldn't find an overly complicated way that would take 3 games to explain to make sure the darkness is disguised as light.

Actually, light is darkness and darkness is light. However, darkness is still darkness and light is still light. Nothingness exists between them, but they are opposite and identical at the same time, meaning Nothingness doesn't exist. This loops back around to Nothingness existing ebcause of this bizarre paradox.
Then the series promptly forgets about nothingness and goes back to light punching darkness in the face. At least, I think that's how it goes.

It's a very bad argument and could be used against a variety of different series, such as Digimon, which itself is in a gray area.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai and Nintendo are open to the majority of "grey area" characters, as long as A: They can get the rights to them, B: They can get them past CERO, and C: They can make money off of them.
On that note, what's the situation with The Witcher's author? Would that overcomplicate things enough to turn Nintendo away, or would it just be as simple as him getting part of CD Projekt Red's profit?

 

[SKX31]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai and Nintendo are open to the majority of "grey area" characters, as long as A: They can get the rights to them, B: They can get them past CERO, and C: They can make money off of them.
On that note, what's the situation with The Witcher's author? Would that overcomplicate things enough to turn Nintendo away, or would it just be as simple as him getting part of CD Projekt Red's profit?

Sapkowski did sign a new deal with CDPR, albeit the timing of the deal would be after FP2 negotiations. Still, I don't imagine that Sapkowski would be that much of a hindrance for Nintendo nor CDPR since the games' Geralt made it into Soul Calibur 6's base game.

In other news, Sonic and Jim Carrey participated in a PSA as part of a (late) release earlier today:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[cashregister9]

I don't know why people keep lumping Dynasty Warriors and Fate with Geralt. Dynasty Warriors and Fate are both perfectly eligible they originated as games the only potential stipulation is the fact that some of the characters are based off of real people but due to how fictionalized both series are it doesn't seem like it would impact any characters chances.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If Geralt is considered eligible because many people know him more as a "video game character" rather than a book character; then by that same logic would Saber be considered ineligible because many people know her more as a "anime character" rather than a game character? Or do they both approach a gray line?

There's no grey line for either. What "many people know him more as" is irrelevant. Saber is viable(though I doubt she'd happen), Geralt isn't.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Actually, light is darkness and darkness is light. However, darkness is still darkness and light is still light. Nothingness exists between them, but they are opposite and identical at the same time, meaning Nothingness doesn't exist. This loops back around to Nothingness existing ebcause of this bizarre paradox.
Then the series promptly forgets about nothingness and goes back to light punching darkness in the face. At least, I think that's how it goes.

I took a few years of Kingdom Hearts 101 in college, you get an A+

 

[N3ON]

Here's where I make the distinction. And this is just where I would draw the line, I've no idea where exactly Sakurai/Nintendo would draw it.

It depends more on the universe than the character. If a pre-existing character or person features in a universe that began as a gaming universe, that version resides under the gaming sphere. Like Castlevania's Dracula, Kid Icarus' Medusa, and Codename STEAM's Lincoln.

I mean, look at God of War. Basically all those characters stem from deities and mythology, including Kratos. But I don't think anyone would say they're ineligible, because that specific universe, the God of War one, began as a gaming universe.

If the universe was created as another medium, the creations under that umbrella probably defer thusly. So, in my opinion, The Witcher is a book series that got video game interpretations. And those interpretations look liberties, but... at the end of the day, the universe began as a literary one.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I don't know why people keep lumping Dynasty Warriors and Fate with Geralt. Dynasty Warriors and Fate are both perfectly eligible they originated as games the only potential stipulation is the fact that some of the characters are based off of real people but due to how fictionalized both series are it doesn't seem like it would impact any characters chances.

This is what I think too and this also why the Dr. Kawashima assist trophy is not a problem. Sure, he's a real person, but he's not a character from a different type of media than video games (like movie, anime, or books in the case of Geralt).

Also the argument that Geralt could get in because Games Geralt is different than Books Geralt is pretty weak imo. Like, should we add Batman from the arkham franchises becasue the continuity in those games are different than the comics? The other argument is that Witcher 3 is a critically acclaim, which is true but again, the same thing could be said about Batman arkham and Dragon ball fighterZ.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I get the point you are trying to make but using similar logic Spiderman would be eligible because of the 2018 game

Key difference is, Spider-Man will always be a comic book character first and foremost. People already know about Spider-Man, from other mediums, so while he might have games that are influential, that's not where he made his biggest impact.

2015 GOTY.... Wait, I don't see any mention of the Hunters from Bloodborne here...

Wasn't Bloodborne 2014 anyway?

Bull. It would open a door and you know it.

For sure, but not the one you think. Geralt is still miles removed from, say, Iron Man or Naruto in Smash. He's a pretty special situation, as rarely do triple A games get made for niche or unknown licenses. So he'd basically be opening the door to, what, Parasite Eve's Aya, Cyberpunk's V, and the Dynasty Warriors crew? Hardly a slippery slope imo.

If Geralt is considered eligible because many people know him more as a "video game character" rather than a book character; then by that same logic would Saber be considered ineligible because many people know her more as a "anime character" rather than a game character?

In my book, yes. Might be controversial, but I consider Geralt more of a videogame character than the likes of Saber or Agumon who have done more for anime than for gaming.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Geralt is still miles removed from, say, Iron Man or Naruto in Smash.

No, he isn't. Your just deluding yourself into thinking he is because you want him.

He's a non-video game character. They're non-video game characters. The only difference with Geralt is the games are more popular than the source material. Which doesn't change anything.

 

[Opossum]

How I see it is this.

Personally, I'd argue that The Witcher is, at its heart, a literary IP, and as such, probably won't happen in Smash due to the creative vision that Sakurai had for Smash.

HOWEVER

I also recognize that Nintendo is a massive megacorp, and they're picking the roster. You'd have to be blissfully naive to believe a megacorp would care about an independent contractor's artistic integrity when there's money on the line. If Nintendo wants Geralt, and they get the legal okay, they'll get Geralt, "creative vision" be damned.

 

[GoodGrief741]

No, he isn't. Your just deluding yourself into thinking he is because you want him.

He's a non-video game character. They're non-video game characters. The only difference with Geralt is the games are more popular than the source material. Which doesn't change anything.

Chill man I didn't even play Witcher III. I just think that Smash selection isn't as dogmatic as "started in videogame ok, started in book bad", especially given that we already have several exceptions to that.

 

[SharkLord]

How I see it is this.

Personally, I'd argue that The Witcher is, at its heart, a literary IP, and as such, probably won't happen in Smash due to the creative vision that Sakurai had for Smash.

HOWEVER

I also recognize that Nintendo is a massive megacorp, and they're picking the roster. You'd have to be blissfully naive to believe a megacorp would care about an independent contractor's artistic integrity when there's money on the line. If Nintendo wants Geralt, and they get the legal okay, they'll get Geralt, "creative vision" be damned.

Pretty much this. Nintendo's strategy is most likely just "Decide on profitable game character, see if the rights are available, see if we can get them past CERO." I doubt they're too picky about the specifics. It's not as rigid as "Game characters yes, book characters no," If Nintendo thinks Geralt can make them money, they'll go with him. He's not like Goku or Spider-Man in that the games are a fair bit more well known that the books, unless you're from Poland.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

While I don’t really know how likely Geralt would be for Smash, I don’t know that he’s really a gateway to characters like Iron Man, Goku, or Spongebob. While they all started as non gaming IP, Geralt as we know him is fundamentally different in what he is known for overall.

Also of note- The Witcher 3 topped sales charts in Japan. It’s a popular game there. Will that lead to Geralt in Smash? Eh, I kinda doubt it. I don’t even actually think he’s going to happen despite the fact that, as a character, Geralt would be dope.

Nevertheless, The Witcher is a literary IP in origin, which is what makes him similar to Goku or Iron Man. However, the key difference between them is that The Witcher, as a gaming IP, has heavily outshined the literary IP based on the success of the franchise. That doesn’t change the fact of the origin, but it does provide a different scenario than say, Goku who is and always will be known for anime/manga, or Spider-Man who, despite having an excellent game on PS4, will always be known for the comics.

Geralt is, in my humble opinion, a grey area. There are things that make him seem disqualified, while there are others that seem to suggest otherwise. It’s a pretty interesting debate.

Either way, if you have the chance to play The Witcher 3, I would very much encourage you to do so. It’s a really excellent game and I sunk...probably too many hours into it.

 

[Droodle]

How I see it is this.

Personally, I'd argue that The Witcher is, at its heart, a literary IP, and as such, probably won't happen in Smash due to the creative vision that Sakurai had for Smash.

HOWEVER

I also recognize that Nintendo is a massive megacorp, and they're picking the roster. You'd have to be blissfully naive to believe a megacorp would care about an independent contractor's artistic integrity when there's money on the line. If Nintendo wants Geralt, and they get the legal okay, they'll get Geralt, "creative vision" be damned.

Yeah, ultimately Nintendo is the head honcho. If they want someone like Geralt, Goku, Spiderman, Darth Vader, Spongebob, and they know they can get em easily and that it'll ultimately be a good move for them; then they'll do it. And really there's nothing that the Bamco or Sakurai can do about it, if Nintendo really wants those characters. Obviously we have no indication if Nintendo wants them or not until they end up getting in which is a slim chance to say the least, but ultimately EVERY character is on the table if Nintendo REALLY wanted them (gaming or not).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Actually, light is darkness and darkness is light. However, darkness is still darkness and light is still light. Nothingness exists between them, but they are opposite and identical at the same time, meaning Nothingness doesn't exist. This loops back around to Nothingness existing ebcause of this bizarre paradox.
Then the series promptly forgets about nothingness and goes back to light punching darkness in the face. At least, I think that's how it goes.

I took a few years of Kingdom Hearts 101 in college, you get an A+

If you want to continue your studies I recommend pursuing a PHD in Kingdom Hearts under Professor Bryce's program.

 

[Dinoman96]

Will Nintendo ever include an AAA western franchise/character that wasn't from a game originally published by Nintendo as a playable character in Smash for as long as we live

That's the real question

 

[N3ON]

How I see it is this.

Personally, I'd argue that The Witcher is, at its heart, a literary IP, and as such, probably won't happen in Smash due to the creative vision that Sakurai had for Smash.

HOWEVER

I also recognize that Nintendo is a massive megacorp, and they're picking the roster. You'd have to be blissfully naive to believe a megacorp would care about an independent contractor's artistic integrity when there's money on the line. If Nintendo wants Geralt, and they get the legal okay, they'll get Geralt, "creative vision" be damned.

I mean, there is just as much money on the line with characters that wouldn't run opposed to one of the very few things Sakurai does seem pretty adamant about. Could they overrule him? Sure. But are there profitable routes to take where no one's vision is compromised? Yeah.

It's not like DLC where Sakurai didn't seem keen on it, but the choices are kinda binary. You either have it, or you don't. And if you don't, that's a huge amount of money left on the table. So Smash has it. To that end, there are still a litany of profitable characters that don't conflict with how Sakurai wants his series to operate.

And I would think that Nintendo could appreciate that much. I think that at the end of the day, they do respect him quite a bit. I mean, Sakurai does seem to be allowed to do stuff that almost no other devs are. It'd be different if somehow the only character left is Gerald Witcher, but we're not quite there yet.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

While I don’t really know how likely Geralt would be for Smash, I don’t know that he’s really a gateway to characters like Iron Man, Goku, or Spongebob. While they all started as non gaming IP, Geralt as we know him is fundamentally different in what he is known for overall.

Also of note- The Witcher 3 topped sales charts in Japan. It’s a popular game there. Will that lead to Geralt in Smash? Eh, I kinda doubt it. I don’t even actually think he’s going to happen despite the fact that, as a character, Geralt would be dope.

Nevertheless, The Witcher is a literary IP in origin, which is what makes him similar to Goku or Iron Man. However, the key difference between them is that The Witcher, as a gaming IP, has heavily outshined the literary IP based on the success of the franchise. That doesn’t change the fact of the origin, but it does provide a different scenario than say, Goku who is and always will be known for anime/manga, or Spider-Man who, despite having an excellent game on PS4, will always be known for the comics.

Geralt is, in my humble opinion, a grey area. There are things that make him seem disqualified, while there are others that seem to suggest otherwise. It’s a pretty interesting debate.

Either way, if you have the chance to play The Witcher 3, I would very much encourage you to do so. It’s a really excellent game and I sunk...probably too many hours into it.

I need to finish watching the Netflix series myself, since a prequel series is coming soon

I’ll also be sure to grab Witcher 3 on Switch when it goes on sale as my PCs are crap and can’t run it

 

[DarthEnderX]

I also recognize that Nintendo is a massive megacorp, and they're picking the roster. You'd have to be blissfully naive to believe a megacorp would care about an independent contractor's artistic integrity when there's money on the line. If Nintendo wants Geralt, and they get the legal okay, they'll get Geralt, "creative vision" be damned.

If that were the case, we'd already have Goku.

I just think that Smash selection isn't as dogmatic as "started in videogame ok, started in book bad",

Well it is! It says so right here in this bible!

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Man you know Soul Calibur doesn't have to deal with these issues and are all the happier for it.

 

[Lamperouge]

Witcher 3 is a pretty cool guy but he's not exactly a character that I'd be thrilled to have in Smash.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Well it is! It says so right here in this bible!

I think you misread it, man. This is the Bibble.

 

[PLANTMAN]

Alright here is an interesting game. Here are the characters listed in alphabetical order.

Spoiler: Spoilered because long

A -
B -
C -
D -
E - None
F -
G -
H -
I -
J -
K -
L -
M -
N -
O -
P -
Q - None
R -
S -
T -
U - None
V -
W -
X - None
Y -
Z -

Let me know if I missed any. I almost missed Duck Hunt.

So basically there are no characters with a name that starts with the letters E, Q, U or X. Can you think of any characters you like that have a name that start with those letters? If that's too difficult (I can't think of any), name some characters for letters that have three or less characters like A, F, G, etc.

E-Euden
Q-idk
U-Urshifu(the most likely)
X-I don’t think I could think of one with that letter

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I kinda want to see the alternate reality where James Bond really did get into Melee, mostly to see how much speculation would've changed.

Do you think it would've opened the door for other non game characters, and we'd actually consider someone like Geralt a legitimate front-runner over there with precedence like that? Or do you think Bond and non game characters in general would've been a one and done thing for melee due to complicated licensing in the future or something? Fun to think about

 

[SneakyLink]

I kinda want to see the alternate reality where James Bond really did get into Melee, mostly to see how much speculation would've changed. You think we'd actually consider the likes of Geralt a front-runner over there?

If Bond got in, I'd be rooting for Popeye in Smash. He's got a real history with Nintendo.

Naturally I suspect Goku would probably be a front runner or there'd be "Bond was a exception" fan rules cropping up.

 

[Deleted member]

I kinda want to see the alternate reality where James Bond really did get into Melee, mostly to see how much speculation would've changed. You think we'd actually consider the likes of Geralt a front-runner over there?

In an alternate universe, Smash Bros is Spider-Man 2 Pizza Time, all the time.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

In an alternate universe, Smash Bros is Spider-Man 2 Pizza Time, all the time.

Imagine the Yoko Shimomura arrangement

 

[zeldasmash]

I have a few thoughts about the 4th parties and the two characters I think would be the first I would pick in a hypothetical scenario for Smash.

The thing about the "4th parties" is that they don't come from video games and therefore, are ineligible for Smash. But like someone said, Nintendo is a megacorp. If they choose to add a 4th party, they probably will. Some of them wouldn't even be bad additions, it will just be difficult considering creative differences in vision.

Me personally, I think the best two 4th parties for Smash in my opinion would be Geralt and Goku. Geralt, despite being literary, is one of the more big faces of the modern gaming industry with The Witcher 3 being considered one of the best games of all time. I know Goku is a joke around here at this point, but he'd genuinely work for a game like Smash. Both are very recognizable, have really good games and have plenty of moveset potential that would work for a game like Smash.

Me personally, I'd be fine with 4th parties, however they should be limited in amount. Probably no more 4 max and that's probably being generous. The problem here would be creative differences in vision with the company and Sakurai.

 

[Perkilator]

Imagine the Yoko Shimomura arrangement

That reminds me; what series music would you like to see Yoko Shimomura tackle in their Challenger Pack's OST? For me (besides Kingdom Hearts), it'd have to be Crash Bandicoot.

 

[SKX31]

I kinda want to see the alternate reality where James Bond really did get into Melee, mostly to see how much speculation would've changed.

Do you think we'd actually consider the likes of Geralt a legitimate front-runner over there with precedence like that? Or do you think Bond would've been a one and done thing for melee due to complicated licensing in the future or something? Fun to think about

Counterfactuals / Alternate history is fun, yes!

If Bond was in Melee I'd imagine that the idea of "4th party" would never come to be, and it'd simply be "video game 3rd party" and "non-video game 3rd party". Also, support for third parties would rise much earlier simply because Bond would've been introduced with Smash still very young as a franchise. The early Brawl speculation scene on SmashBoards could've had two megathreads for videogame third parties and non-video game third parties respectively.

It would also depend on if Bond's followed up on in Brawl too. Another non-video game character? Then it's solidified. If not? Possible still, but some people would argue that Bond's "the special one".

At the same time, Bond is distinctly Western - the Japanese fanbase might start coalescing around supporting Goku or newer characters like Luffy and Naruto (who were pretty young during Melee's lifetime and Brawl's development). I'd count Sailor Moon and Doraemon as wildcards in this scenario.

Still, Geralt would probably get a boost assuming that the books / games are still made and not taken away by the Butterfly Effect.

That reminds me; what series music would you like to see Yoko Shimomura tackle in their Challenger Pack's OST? For me (besides Kingdom Hearts), it'd have to be Crash Bandicoot.

Now that you mention it, I'd be interested to see her tackle DMC's soundtrack, just to see what happens there. Or Halo's.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Alright, I know some of you don't want to deal with leaks anymore, and I ESPECIALLY know you guys don't want to deal with Hotgirls anymore, but for those of you who ARE interested, she recently made a Twitter thread of things she heard.

https://twitter.com/HotGirlVideos69/status/1288990311176450048?s=20

Posting a link because she says... things at the end of the thread. Viewer discretion is advised.

 

[Will]

Alright, I know some of you don't want to deal with leaks anymore, and I ESPECIALLY know you guys don't want to deal with Hotgirls anymore, but for those of you who ARE interested, she recently made a Twitter thread of things she heard..

you know someone's capping when they end off with "i cannot say too much yet" like they ain't give off a whole list

into the trash it goes, i say

 

[7NATOR]

If HotGirl is Right, She would be the best Leaker ever

in any case, Why don't we all band together to make a Realistic Small leak and Parade it around as real, to get people hype?

 

[Will]

Why don't we all band together to make a Realistic Small leak and Parade it around as real, to get people hype?

Don't poison the water hole.

 

[Wunderwaft]

The fighting game developer stream just finished and we got confirmation from Harada that they approached Nintendo to include them to the round table as well but they refused. Nintendo is gonna continue doing it's own thing separate from everyone I guess.

 

[7NATOR]

The fighting game developer stream just finished and we got confirmation from Harada that they approached Nintendo to include them to the round table as well but they refused. Nintendo is gonna continue doing it's own thing separate from everyone I guess.

Kinda expected. Nintendo didn't even have announcement at Evo Last year, and that's even more ironic since the next character to be announced was Terry. Would have been Perfect

I'm salty i missed the Roundtable, I thought it was tommorow. the Samurai dude in Guilty Gear looks cool, and I bet Max is goona be happy about Leo coming back, got to watch other videos

View attachment 280678

Don't poison the water hole.

It'll be Fun. I suggest we just do 1 character for the Leak, and just make it realistic. It's easier to get 1 character right than 2

and it shouldn't be a Character that's speculated heavily like Geno or Crash or Dante

That's why I suggest Shadow the Hedgehog. That's a twist no one would see coming, so if we get that Right we'd be living