Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SneakyLink]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Punching tourney. No deconfirms!

 

[StormC]

1. It's Banjo-Kazooie, a pipe dream character. Their stage, gameplay style, designs, and remixes are all amazing. Damn near perfect. It felt like the second coming of the K. Rool hype, and no Smash announcement will ever come close to those two in the future, I don't think.
2. Although I'm not the hugest fan of the moveset implementation, the stage and music is aces and Persona 5 is one of my all time favorite games. Joker himself has a cool design and Morgana in the taunt is a nice bonus.
3. I wasn't the biggest fan of ARMS from the free demo, but Min Min was my main, she's really, really fun in Smash, and the music is also great here. And it's exciting to see a character that isn't the mascot for once. Much to my surprise, she probably cracked my top 5 favorite Ultimate newcomers.
4. Was shocked at first, then baffled, then came to like this little guy. Don't play as him much, but he brings something different to the roster at least, while having some nice deep cut references to Mario lore.
5. Dragon Quest is such a legendary franchise that it was a no brainer to add to Smash and that was exciting enough in its own right. I don't have any personal attachment to the series though and I think the lack of female alts along with the music situation dampens my excitement considerably. Hero himself is very unwieldy too with the menu unfortunately.
6. I respect SNK's legacy but Terry and his universe doesn't really do anything for me personally. He's fun to play as but not so much that I'm going to revisit him over and over. 50 songs is great but when it's all trapped on one stage it's hard to get too excited about it. Happy for his fans.
7. This felt like an incredibly cynical pick since it was made before 3 Houses even came out and was beloved by the fans and it's hard to separate that for me. The stage is... fine, I guess, but overall kinda middling along with the music. It's another Fire Emblem character and the second time they used DLC to promote a new FE game. The character themselves can be kinda fun to play as but they're pretty bad and not fun enough to overcome that.

DLC has been a bit of a mixed bag for me but Min Min has put me in higher spirits again at least.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

DLC ratings? In order;

- I love Fatal Fury, and he's rather fun and easy to use. He clicks with me well, though not as good as Hero.
- Easily my second favorite one. It got the overall thing I wanted out of DQ. Not the character, but the core gameplay. Magic.
- Going to be honest, I love it and it's one of the coolest options we can have for mooks. It's a nice and fun character.
//- Cool characters, but they do nothing for me.
- I was vastly more interested in Spring Man or Dr. Coyle, but she's still cool. I can't really get into her gameplay, though.

Overall, fun set of DLC, but only 3/7 of it was ones of interest to me.

 

[Deleted member]

[twitter post]

Punching tourney. No deconfirms!

tfw the fisticuffs tourney happens before the Fire Emblem themed tourney

Honestly, I was surprised they didn't do this when Terry first came out, but you can't go wrong with Min Min coming with a fisting punch themed tourney. Now, we wait for the eventual Raise Thy Blade tourney featuring only swordfighters.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Personal preference:
1) : By far my most wanted got in!
2) : A character I've fallen in love with thanks to Ultimate. I mained Incineroar for a long time, but considering my friends main top tiers Palutena and Wario, I wanted a top tier main for myself. I've tried many, but Joker is the one who really clicked with me. He's my co-main alongside the cat!
3) : Idk. This character's weird and such a random addition, yet one of my favorites to play! One of my most-picked secondaries.
4): I adore her so much! Wanna make her another of my most-played secondaries. I'm still very early in the learning phase, obviously.
5) : So, I was disappointed by this character... for like a few seconds, then I saw their kit and fell in love. Lol!
6) : I'm not much of a Dragon Quest fan, honestly not even a DBZ fan, so Hero doesn't do much for me.
7) : Likewise, I'm not much of a traditional fighting games player. Maybe that'll change, but as it is right now, Terry's inputs are hard for me to learn. And I hadn't really heard of SNK before the SNK leak, so no attachment to Terry either.

By what they added to Smash:
1) : SNK is a big, influential franchise that deserved to be immortalized in Smash. And 50 songs!
2) : Dragon Quest is the father of all RPGs, wildly popular in Japan, and I'm glad Hero's inclusion should help expose western audiences to it. Terry got the edge because he kicked Hero's butt in the songs department.
3) : Nintendo and Microsoft are collaborating in Smash! This could bring big gaming icons from Microsoft in the future, such as Master Chief or Steve. But as for Banjo & Kazooie themselves... Welcome home. You should have been added back in Brawl, but we all know why that didn't happen. It just feels right to have them as a part of Smash.
4) : ARMS was pretty successful, selling around 2 million copies. I'm glad Smash is giving the franchise a signal boost, because I'd hate to see it die after only game. It shows excellent potential.
5) : Even though P5 didn't really need a signal boost, it's great to see Atlus content in Smash! I'd say the SMT and Persona series are criminally underrated, but P5 started breaking that trend even before Joker's inclusion.
6) : I like Byleth a lot, but even I'll agree that this was a pretty weak inclusion. I could understand if the success of FE3H was why they added Byleth, but Byleth was planned long before the game even released. Points here for stage and songs, though.
7) : I almost gave Plant the edge over Byleth, because common, weak enemies are a big part of gaming that kinda should be in Smash when you really think about it. I decided to give Byleth the edge because Plant didn't bring stage and songs. Mario doesn't really need more of those, but still.

 

[N3ON]

I actually disagree.

The corporate relationship between Nintendo and Square Enix is at an all time best since the pre-Playstation Era. Square Enix is dedicating tremendous resources to development on Nintendo systems, to the point where they even have an entire studio dedicated to such. They seem to be releasing exclusive after exclusive on the Switch, with Bravely Default 2 coming soon.

I think right now Square Enix is one of the closest third party companies to Nintendo, or at the very least is closer than most.

Just because they have a strong relationship with Square doesn't mean they don't with other companies as well. At the very least Nintendo's relationship with Microsoft and Bethesda is the best it's ever been.

And you could make strong arguments for Namco too since they're actively helping develop multiple first-party games. They're doing work on par with some of Nintendo's internal studios.

As far as Sega and Ubisoft, maybe it's not the strongest it's ever been, but it's still incredibly strong. Both those companies have recently collaborated with Nintendo and they both support the Switch pretty well.

Frankly other than Activision and EA, who sort of float in and out when it suits them, the only company with whom Nintendo seems to have a weaker relationship than normal is Capcom. And even then it's not that bad.

But for my money, who has the best relationship with Nintendo? Namco. Their position is tantamount to a Nintendo developer. Smash, ARMS, Mario Kart, Mario Sports, Metroid (before that went **** up), Pokken, Pokemon Snap. Monolith still makes games for them (Project X Zone), Dark Souls is a rare third-party series with an amiibo, and there are multiple cameos between the two. Which is ironic, considering their sole character.

 

[Droodle]

People says Sakurai wanted Geno, and that's true, but some then act like Sakurai was relatively "forced" to put Final Fantasy and DQ before Geno. Him not directly saying that he wanted to add Cloud or Hero doesn't mean he didn't wanted to include these characters. If we follow that then most of the roster are characters that Sakurai didn't want to add lol

What I mean is, we know Sakurai likes JRPGs. It isn't far fetched to imagine that he also wanted to add FF and DQ to Smash. Both are pivotal series of the genre. And that doesn't mean he didn't wanted Geno or something like that. It's possible for anyone to like or being interested in multiple things at once. So him saying "I want Geno in Smash" doesn't mean "I want Geno in Smash instead of FF/DQ" or "I only want Geno if we speak of Square characters".

Yeah, some people take Sakurai's statement of liking Geno way too seriously. Sakurai's well versed in games, it's more likely that he has a list of a couple dozen characters that he wants to add to Smash at any given time and that Geno is a part of it, rather than Geno being one of the few characters Sakurai wants to add at all.

He said that he likes Geno, thats it. He didn't say he wanted Geno in over Cloud, or that he likes Geno more than Cloud; he just likes Geno. But in the end that still doesn't tell us much, again, Sakurai is a fan of likely dozens of characters; just because he doesn't talk about them within the context of Smash doesn't mean that he doesn't want some of those characters in.

Case in point Terry, we know that Sakurai is a fan of FF/KoF; but he never spoke about adding it to Smash (even though it did end up helping creating Smash) until Terry got in which is what would have made him surprising (if he didn't get leaked). Even with DQ/FF out of the way Square has multiple popular IPs left, and chances are Sakurai likes a couple of them too, just because he didn't say anything about them in the past doesn't really mean anything. And even beyond Square there's probably many characters/series that Sakurai wants to include into Smash as well. So really Geno isn't alone on the "Sakurai likes them train". I mean Heihachi was in the very same train of being considered for Smash, but in the end didn't make it in 4 or Ultimate.

Just because they have a strong relationship with Square doesn't mean they don't with other companies as well. At the very least Nintendo's relationship with Microsoft and Bethesda is the best it's ever been.

And you could make strong arguments for Namco too since they're actively helping develop multiple first-party games. They're doing work on par with some of Nintendo's internal studios.

As far as Sega and Ubisoft, maybe it's not the strongest it's ever been, but it's still incredibly strong. Both those companies have recently collaborated with Nintendo and they both support the Switch pretty well.

Frankly other than Activision and EA, who sort of float in and out when it suits them, the only company with whom Nintendo seems to have a weaker relationship than normal is Capcom. And even then it's not that bad.

But for my money, who has the best relationship with Nintendo? Namco. Their position is tantamount to a Nintendo developer. Smash, ARMS, Mario Kart, Mario Sports, Metroid (before that went **** up), Pokken, Pokemon Snap. Monolith still makes games for them (Project X Zone), Dark Souls is a rare third-party series with an amiibo, and there are multiple cameos between the two. Which is ironic, considering their sole character.

Yeah, it's definitely Namco or Tecmo at this point. Which makes it weirder that Namco still is at 1 rep and Tecmo is at 0.

 

[StarBot]

Can someone tell me how the stage screen looks, when the custom stage option on it

 

[PLATINUM7]

Can someone tell me how the stage screen looks, when the custom stage option on it

It just adds another row to the bottom.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, it's definitely Namco or Tecmo at this point. Which makes it weirder that Namco still is at 1 rep and Tecmo is at 0.

It's either very weird or the correlation isn't as important as people think it is.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Actually, it should be noted that Sakurai has mentioned NieR before in a positive way in one of his Famitsu columns.

Clearly this confirms 2B for Smash.

 

[StrawHatX]

Yeah, some people take Sakurai's statement of liking Geno way too seriously. Sakurai's well versed in games, it's more likely that he has a list of a couple dozen characters that he wants to add to Smash at any given time and that Geno is a part of it, rather than Geno being one of the few characters Sakurai wants to add at all.

He said that he likes Geno, thats it. He didn't say he wanted Geno in over Cloud, or that he likes Geno more than Cloud; he just likes Geno. But in the end that still doesn't tell us much, again, Sakurai is a fan of likely dozens of characters; just because he doesn't talk about them within the context of Smash doesn't mean that he doesn't want some of those characters in.

Case in point Terry, we know that Sakurai is a fan of FF/KoF; but he never spoke about adding it to Smash (even though it did end up helping creating Smash) until Terry got in which is what would have made him surprising (if he didn't get leaked). Even with DQ/FF out of the way Square has multiple popular IPs left, and chances are Sakurai likes a couple of them too, just because he didn't say anything about them in the past doesn't really mean anything. And even beyond Square there's probably many characters/series that Sakurai wants to include into Smash as well. So really Geno isn't alone on the "Sakurai likes them train". I mean Heihachi was in the very same train of being considered for Smash, but in the end didn't make it in 4 or Ultimate.


Yeah, it's definitely Namco or Tecmo at this point. Which makes it weirder that Namco still is at 1 rep and Tecmo is at 0.

I’m still a bit surprised Ubisoft doesn’t have a character yet. I still think Rayman is a decent possibility.

 

[Flik]

Ranking DLC characters? Let's see:

1 - Hero: I liked so much it made me buy the whole pass despites having no other reason at that point. Could have done without the random magic **** and just a multi page list to choose from, but still the most fun I had with the DLC.

2 - Byleth - Finally, a female character I like besides Lucina (I like Samus too but not as much). Took a while to get used to the play style but I'm getting there. Also it's the decisive proof of something I always had in mind: The character themselves are what really matter to this fandom, "unique" moveset be damned.

3 - Terry - I always liked Terry, so I'm OK with him despite still preferring someone else from SNK. I do play as him sometimes, though.

4 - Banjo & Kazooie - Can't say I always wanted them but I'm happy they are in. BTW still by far the best Microsoft character there is.

Didn't buy the second pass yet so I can't comment on Min Min, though I don't expect her to make to the upper half of the list.

Am I forgeting someone...? Nah.

 

[Will]

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Punching tourney. No deconfirms!

So tired of all these anime punch fighters in my Smash Bros.!

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

This is ranking the characters themselves
1. 11/10
2. 10/10
3. 10/10
4. 10/10
5. 6/10
6. 5/10

First 4 are all phenomenal and are among my most played. Byleth and Min Min were two of my most wanteds period and Terry and Joker won me over with their fun playstyles. Hero and Banjo are literally the only two I wasn't overwhelmingly positive on.

Now for the packs as a whole and what they bring
1. 10/10
2. 9/10
3. 7/10
4. 6/10
5. 5/10
6. 4/10

Terry's was an easy 10/10. Every aspect was phenomenal. Joker's was solid too. Min Min and Byleth's had some issues but the characters themselves more than make up for it. The final two are the same as the character rankings above jjust placements swapped. Characters themselves were eh, and the stages were... kinda boring. Banjo's brought some fun remixes with him, which gives him the slght edge over Hero's which uh... Do I even need to explain the music situation?

 

[StormC]

I’m still a bit surprised Ubisoft doesn’t have a character yet. I still think Rayman is a decent possibility.

I don't think it's that surprising. Sakurai said he was apprehensive about working with a western company for Banjo before Nintendo stepped in, and there aren't any Ubisoft franchises that are particularly popular in Japan (except maybe the first couple of Assassin's Creed games).

Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's pretty easy from my vantage point to see why there isn't one yet.

 

[SNEKeater]

Yeah, some people take Sakurai's statement of liking Geno way too seriously. Sakurai's well versed in games, it's more likely that he has a list of a couple dozen characters that he wants to add to Smash at any given time and that Geno is a part of it, rather than Geno being one of the few characters Sakurai wants to add at all.

He said that he likes Geno, thats it. He didn't say he wanted Geno in over Cloud, or that he likes Geno more than Cloud; he just likes Geno. But in the end that still doesn't tell us much, again, Sakurai is a fan of likely dozens of characters; just because he doesn't talk about them within the context of Smash doesn't mean that he doesn't want some of those characters in.

Case in point Terry, we know that Sakurai is a fan of FF/KoF; but he never spoke about adding it to Smash (even though it did end up helping creating Smash) until Terry got in which is what would have made him surprising (if he didn't get leaked). Even with DQ/FF out of the way Square has multiple popular IPs left, and chances are Sakurai likes a couple of them too, just because he didn't say anything about them in the past doesn't really mean anything. And even beyond Square there's probably many characters/series that Sakurai wants to include into Smash as well. So really Geno isn't alone on the "Sakurai likes them train". I mean Heihachi was in the very same train of being considered for Smash, but in the end didn't make it in 4 or Ultimate.

I completely agree with you.
To clarify, I'm not trying to say that Sakurai's words on Geno aren't important. Sakurai has talked about very few characters that he likes or that he was interested in adding to the game, and Geno has the honour of being one of these characters.

Also, a point that no one usually mentions when people talks about Sakurai's words on Geno is, yeah, he said he wanted to put him in the game. But does he still want Geno as he did a few years ago? I mean, people can change their opinions. That's a natural thing. We don't know if Sakurai is still interested in Geno. Maybe he has lost interest, maybe not. Certainly we don't have that information so everyone assumes he still wants Geno, but who knows?

Sakurai has probably thought of a lot of characters that he views as interesting and cool options for Smash, but in the end he doesn't decide who gets in. Or at least, he doesn't have full powers for that, especially if we speak about DLC characters.
As you have said, maybe Sakurai never said that he likes Heihachi and he wanted him for Smash, but Heihachi being planned or discussed at some point at leasts proves that he was interested in the character or Tekken. And maybe this will change for the next game but for as today, Heihachi isn't in the game.

Square has multiple and popular IPs beyond FF and DQ. That's for sure. For them it would make more sense to put Nier, Tomb Raider, TWEWY or Bravely content in Smash. Granted, Nintendo is who picks the character so if they want Geno it would probably be him or nothing.
I agree with people saying that Geno's in a good position. Not that he's likely by any means, just like any other character, but his Mii Costume not having returned is so far a good sign for his playable chances. I could see him happening, but I could totally see as well getting a completely different Square character. If we ever get another one for Pass 2, that's it.

 

[Perkilator]

Alright, which boss do you want to include in the Classic Mode route of your most wanted? For me:

Master/Crazy Hand
-Crash
-Sora
-Ryota Hayami

Giga Bowser
-Axel Stone

Rathalos
-Bandana Dee
-Captain Toad
-Euden

Ganon
-Sakura Shinguji

Marx
-Rayman

Just to name a few.

 

[Opossum]

Banjo & Kazooie, who had less of an impact than SMRPG, says hi.

In what world did SMRPG have more of an impact than Banjo-Kazooie? Because it sure isn't this one.

Super Mario RPG didn't even release in Europe until over a decade after its initial release. And even among Square's SNES RPGs, you tend to hear more about Final Fantasy, Mana, Chrono Trigger, and Dragon Quest anyway. It's a notable crossover for being Mario's first RPG, but Banjo-Kazooie became the first 3D platformer to truly rival Super Mario 64 in terms of prestige and recognition.

 

[StarBot]

Playing through World Of Light again, and I kiiiiiinda starting to agree with ya'll on more boss fights. It's fell so surreal seeing how much stuff Castlevania got, and then you start feeling how much as a afterthought of all the DLC characters sorta fells in the grandfield of things when you play through it again

 

[SharkLord]

Well guys, I've created the ultimate Fighter's Pass Volume 2. All your arguments are invalid, everyone will be happy with this, you can't top my pass:
CP6-Min Min
We know this already. Moving on.
CP7-Nia
Sakurai owns a cat; Therefore, the Welsh catgirl Nia takes priority over another generic human like Rex. It's basic logic, y'know?
CP8-Sailor Waddle Dee
Oops, you wanted Bandana Waddle Dee? Sorry, must've gotten lost in translation. Ah well, a Dee's still a Dee, right?
CP9-Cirno
Because of course Cirno would be CP9.
CP10-Mallow
Added to promote Super Mario RPG Remastered. It's not really Geno, but hey, beggars can't be choosers. At least remake Mallow has a gun for a hand now, so you can pretend he's Geno in terms of moveset, right?
CP11-Nero
Because **** YOU, that's why.

 

[Blankiturayman]

Well guys, I've created the ultimate Fighter's Pass Volume 2. All your arguments are invalid, everyone will be happy with this, you can't top my pass:
CP6-Min Min
We know this already. Moving on.
CP7-Nia
Sakurai owns a cat; Therefore, the Welsh catgirl Nia takes priority over another generic human like Rex. It's basic logic, y'know?
CP8-Sailor Waddle Dee
Oops, you wanted Bandana Waddle Dee? Sorry, must've gotten lost in translation. Ah well, a Dee's still a Dee, right?
CP9-Cirno
Because of course Cirno would be CP9.
CP10-Mallow
Added to promote Super Mario RPG Remastered. It's not really Geno, but hey, beggars can't be choosers. At least remake Mallow has a gun for a hand now, so you can pretend he's Geno in terms of moveset, right?
CP11-Nero
Because **** YOU, that's why.

You jest, but I'd take Mallow too. He's got cool spells.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Alright, which boss do you want to include in the Classic Mode route of your most wanted? For me:

Master/Crazy Hand
-Crash
-Sora
-Ryota Hayami

Giga Bowser
-Axel Stone

Rathalos
-Bandana Dee
-Captain Toad
-Euden

Ganon
-Sakura Shinguji

Marx
-Rayman

Just to name a few.

Hm. Some of mine would be:

- Sora: Ganon, Marx or Dracula. Dharkon would be perfect, but since it's impossible, these three are the closest to something Sora would face in KH imo. And all three are associated with darkness to some extent.

- 2B: Galleom. Big machine - could represent Engels depending on her Classic mode structure. Nuff said.

- Arle: Dracula as a stand in for Sat- I mean, Dark Prince. It would be particularly funny to me because of the tonal shift between the two.

- Phoenix Wright: Hands, representing the Nightmare Judge.

- Ahri: Rathalos, representing the Elder and Elemental Drakes from LoL.

- Rayman: Either Marx for Mr. Dark or Galleom for Razorbeard and his robot. Maybe Rathalos, if you're going for a Legends feel.

- Bomberman: a bit of a stretch, but imo Galleom could represent Bagular/Buggler/however you're supposed to spell his name. In most incarnations I've seen, he fights in a robot.

- Crash: ...no idea. I struggle to see any of the current bosses fitting for a Crash-themed Classic mode.

That's all I have for now, I guess.

 

[Opossum]

Anywho, ranking how much I enjoyed the DLC.

- "I've only known Min Min for a day but if anything happened to her I'd kill everyone in this room and then myself." Memes aside, I instantly clicked with how she played and she'll be entering regular rotation for me. ARMS music is great, the stage is fantastic, and Min Min is a great character with great animations.

- Byleth is weird, but ultimately still second place despite some mixed feelings. I like everything about them and what they brought except for the fact that they went with Byleth when I would've MUCH preferred Edelgard. Still though, Three Houses was my 2019 GOTY, the music is great, and Garreg Mach got a stage. Plus we got cameos from some of my favorites like Edelgard, Dorothea, and Claude. And Seteth's spirit battle is adorable with the Flayn reference.

- Spellsword! Hero's just a really stylish fighter. While it's an absolute bummer that Sugiyama didn't let them use the orchestral versions of the songs, in addition to being a terrible person, everything else about Hero is great. The stage, the spirit battles, the fact that we got four different Heroes (RIP Heroes from 1 and 5 though)...there's a lot to love here. Eleven is my favorite of the four design-wise.

- Terry's just a really likeable character and a damn good time. His moves have this weight to them that's enhanced by the crunchy sound effects and I am here for it. The stage is gorgeous and its mechanic is really neat. And oh god the music. Fifty songs. Fifty.

- Guh-huh! Bree. They just clash so much with the rest of the DLC you can't help but laugh. Great music (especially Kirkhope's new Spiral Mountain remix), a fun design even if the moveset is pretty basic, and it's cool to see all these characters with updated models. My one complaint is that the non-BF/Omega version of the stage gives me minor motion sickness with the spinning.

- Wow, Joker's reveal was a great surprise. Don't let the lower placement fool you; I love Joker and love that he's here, but man do I wish I was better with him lol. He's probably my least favorite of the Challenger Packs to play, but he's so visually striking that I can't fault him too much.

- I like Plant but it sure does exist huh. I like the almost "jack-in-the-box" fighting style it has, but in a vacuum it's easily the most expendable of these seven. It also came with no additional content beyond itself and its Classic Mode and Fighter Spirit.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Well guys, I've created the ultimate Fighter's Pass Volume 2. All your arguments are invalid, everyone will be happy with this, you can't top my pass:
CP6-Min Min
We know this already. Moving on.
CP7-Nia
Sakurai owns a cat; Therefore, the Welsh catgirl Nia takes priority over another generic human like Rex. It's basic logic, y'know?
CP8-Sailor Waddle Dee
Oops, you wanted Bandana Waddle Dee? Sorry, must've gotten lost in translation. Ah well, a Dee's still a Dee, right?
CP9-Cirno
Because of course Cirno would be CP9.
CP10-Mallow
Added to promote Super Mario RPG Remastered. It's not really Geno, but hey, beggars can't be choosers. At least remake Mallow has a gun for a hand now, so you can pretend he's Geno in terms of moveset, right?
CP11-Nero
Because **** YOU, that's why.

Astounding job. Absolutely amazing.

 

[Aetheri]

Alright, which boss do you want to include in the Classic Mode route of your most wanted? For me:

Master/Crazy Hand
-Crash
-Sora
-Ryota Hayami

Giga Bowser
-Axel Stone

Rathalos
-Bandana Dee
-Captain Toad
-Euden

Ganon
-Sakura Shinguji

Marx
-Rayman

Just to name a few.

Midna
-Ganon (possibly when partnered with Link)

Elma
-Galleom/Rathalos

Crash
-Master Hand/Crazy Hand

Tifa
-Galleom

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Alright, which boss do you want to include in the Classic Mode route of your most wanted? For me:

Master/Crazy Hand
-Crash
-Sora
-Ryota Hayami

Giga Bowser
-Axel Stone

Rathalos
-Bandana Dee
-Captain Toad
-Euden

Ganon
-Sakura Shinguji

Marx
-Rayman

Just to name a few.

Marx has always been my requirement for an Adeleine classic route. He also has to have the 0^2 boss theme from Brawl.

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, which boss do you want to include in the Classic Mode route of your most wanted? For me:

Master/Crazy Hand
-Crash
-Sora
-Ryota Hayami

Giga Bowser
-Axel Stone

Rathalos
-Bandana Dee
-Captain Toad
-Euden

Ganon
-Sakura Shinguji

Marx
-Rayman

Just to name a few.

Bandana Dee
Either fight the base game Kirby trio or team up with them to beat Marx to death.
Reimu
Dracula for round 6, then Marx as the final boss to represent Remillia and Flandre. The classic mode as a whole would be based on EoSD
Klonoa
Marx would be the closest fit for Joka and the general dream theme, though I could see Dracula or the Hands as a Ghadius/Nahatomb stand-in.
In other words, Marx is best sandbag.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In what world did SMRPG have more of an impact than Banjo-Kazooie? Because it sure isn't this one.

Super Mario RPG didn't even release in Europe until over a decade after its initial release. And even among Square's SNES RPGs, you tend to hear more about Final Fantasy, Mana, Chrono Trigger, and Dragon Quest anyway. It's a notable crossover for being Mario's first RPG, but Banjo-Kazooie became the first 3D platformer to truly rival Super Mario 64 in terms of prestige and recognition.

B&K was an improvement on DK64 first. The only reason we had B&K was because Rareware made a game with similar mechanics to get the formula down pretty well and then majorly improved it. That's a huge deal in why it worked. B&K also isn't really a series that spawned more than one major series either, so, it's just an N64 impact alone. A notable impact, but it's not something that spanned multiple generations.

SMRPG's impact created two major sub-series(Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi), who did their own thing while clearly using the formula, and heavily improving on it. And only one of them recently died due to AlphaDream dying, not because of some popularity issues. Paper Mario is still going super strong to this day because of SMRPG's major impact. Not being in Europe has zero effect on the fact that it still made a massive impact in creating new games. That spanned multiple generations. This matters too.

SMRPG's impact to gaming overall is simply bigger than B&K's. It'd help if the games after the 64 ones were actually worth noting on their own. One racing game spin-off, if I remember right another simple platformer on the Gameboy Advance or DS or something, and then Nuts & Boltz. The last one did pretty badly impact-wise, way worse than the Paper Mario series still does(as much hate as Sticker Star gets, it's still an extremely popular and well-selling game overall).

So yes, I'd say that's the world we live in. SMRPG had a bigger impact overall than B&K, who had a one-generation impact and that was it. It'd be awesome if it had more of an impact, but it simply didn't.

Chrono Trigger had barely much of an impact, enough to get 3 games and didn't do much. I wouldn't even put it in the ballpark of Final Fantasy, Mana, or Dragon Quest, which are severely more influential series. What things did Chrono Trigger spawn? Any actual games it helped create? Maybe? Some Action RPG's, possibly? If I'm remembering it wrong, then it'd be around SMRPG's impact level, cause the series was pretty quickly forgotten about for a long time. People asked for a remake and release, but not exactly a continuation of the series. The reason SMRPG isn't garnered for a continuation, is because it already continued with Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi, so there was no need. People wanted a remake at most, and rarely did some ask for a sequel. It's actually not a common request.

 

[cmbsfm]

Alright, which boss do you want to include in the Classic Mode route of your most wanted? For me:

Master/Crazy Hand
-Crash
-Sora
-Ryota Hayami

Giga Bowser
-Axel Stone

Rathalos
-Bandana Dee
-Captain Toad
-Euden

Ganon
-Sakura Shinguji

Marx
-Rayman

Just to name a few.

Doomguy: Ganon or Giga Bowser. Either works.

Master Chief: Master Hand lol.

Steve/Alex: Rathalos.

Hayabusa: Dracula

Scorpion: Dracula

Geno: Galleom

 

[SharkLord]

B&K was an improvement on DK64 first. The only reason we had B&K was because Rareware made a game with similar mechanics to get the formula down pretty well and then majorly improved it. That's a huge deal in why it worked. B&K also isn't really a series that spawned more than one major series either, so, it's just an N64 impact alone. A notable impact, but it's not something that spanned multiple generations.

SMRPG's impact created two major sub-series(Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi), who did their own thing while clearly using the formula, and heavily improving on it. And only one of them recently died due to AlphaDream dying, not because of some popularity issues. Paper Mario is still going super strong to this day because of SMRPG's major impact. Not being in Europe has zero effect on the fact that it still made a massive impact in creating new games. That spanned multiple generations. This matters too.

SMRPG's impact to gaming overall is simply bigger than B&K's. It'd help if the games after the 64 ones were actually worth noting on their own. One racing game spin-off, if I remember right another simple platformer on the Gameboy Advance or DS or something, and then Nuts & Boltz. The last one did pretty badly impact-wise, way worse than the Paper Mario series still does(as much hate as Sticker Star gets, it's still an extremely popular and well-selling game overall).

So yes, I'd say that's the world we live in. SMRPG had a bigger impact overall than B&K, who had a one-generation impact and that was it. It'd be awesome if it had more of an impact, but it simply didn't.

Chrono Trigger had barely much of an impact, enough to get 3 games and didn't do much. I wouldn't even put it in the ballpark of Final Fantasy, Mana, or Dragon Quest, which are severely more influential series. What things did Chrono Trigger spawn? Any actual games it helped create? Maybe? Some Action RPG's, possibly? If I'm remembering it wrong, then it'd be around SMRPG's impact level, cause the series was pretty quickly forgotten about for a long time. People asked for a remake and release, but not exactly a continuation of the series. The reason SMRPG isn't garnered for a continuation, is because it already continued with Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi, so there was no need. People wanted a remake at most, and rarely did some ask for a sequel. It's actually not a common request.

Hoo boy, back to the "My (X) is more relevant that yours" thing, it seems. Can't stop this tidal wave, guess I'll just have make the most of it.
Time to bust out the popcorn. Anyone got any drinks?

 

[StrangeKitten]

Playing through World Of Light again, and I kiiiiiinda starting to agree with ya'll on more boss fights. It's fell so surreal seeing how much stuff Castlevania got, and then you start feeling how much as a afterthought of all the DLC characters sorta fells in the grandfield of things when you play through it again

I too wish we had more bosses, and I wish they were more evenly-distributed among Classic Mode routes. The other bosses have such cool designs in terms of fighting, but if you try to clear Classic with every character, have fun fighting the hands like, 80% of the time. Oh, what's that? Ike's Classic route is called "Black-Clad Warriors"? So he fights Dracula who wears black, right? Nope. Hands.

 

[StrawHatX]

Well guys, I've created the ultimate Fighter's Pass Volume 2. All your arguments are invalid, everyone will be happy with this, you can't top my pass:
CP6-Min Min
We know this already. Moving on.
CP7-Nia
Sakurai owns a cat; Therefore, the Welsh catgirl Nia takes priority over another generic human like Rex. It's basic logic, y'know?
CP8-Sailor Waddle Dee
Oops, you wanted Bandana Waddle Dee? Sorry, must've gotten lost in translation. Ah well, a Dee's still a Dee, right?
CP9-Cirno
Because of course Cirno would be CP9.
CP10-Mallow
Added to promote Super Mario RPG Remastered. It's not really Geno, but hey, beggars can't be choosers. At least remake Mallow has a gun for a hand now, so you can pretend he's Geno in terms of moveset, right?
CP11-Nero
Because **** YOU, that's why.

While I want Rex I’d be fine with Nia. She’s awesome.

 

[Will]

So yes, I'd say that's the world we live in.

You say that like your post wasn't just a ripoff Game Theory episode. You make solid points, but what exactly is the goalpost here? Like, damn, my mans didn't even talk about future collect-a-thons or Yooka-Laylee here.

EDIT: Oh **** Irene is that you? Goddamn, didn't even get a clue until I saw the 2001, sorry for calling you my mans.

 

[Faso115]

SMRPG might have been impactful if it indeed was the inspiration for Paper Mario and the Mario and Luigi series but that is despite Geno.

So Geno is not the face of SMRPG, that would be, big surprise, Mario himself.

I rather have Paper Mario over Geno

 

[Arcanir]

B&K was an improvement on DK64 first. The only reason we had B&K was because Rareware made a game with similar mechanics to get the formula down pretty well and then majorly improved it. That's a huge deal in why it worked. B&K also isn't really a series that spawned more than one major series either, so, it's just an N64 impact alone. A notable impact, but it's not something that spanned multiple generations.

Banjo-Kazooie released in June 1998, DK64 released in November 1999. BK predates the latter by nearly a year and a half, if anything DK64 used BK as a base, not the other way around.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You say that like your post wasn't just a ripoff Game Theory episode. You make solid points, but what exactly is the goalpost here? Like, damn, my mans didn't even talk about future collect-a-thons or Yooka-Laylee here.

Collect-a-thons were influenced by Super Mario 64's impact first and foremost. Yooka-Laylee is no different.

I only remember the world where Super Mario 64 massively impacted 3D platforming collectathons for ages to come. B&K's impact is pretty much the N64 era, unfortunately.

Hoo boy, back to the "My (X) is more relevant that yours" thing, it seems. Can't stop this tidal wave, guess I'll just have make the most of it.
Time to bust out the popcorn. Anyone got any drinks?

Nobody said anything about relevancy. Cause that's definitely not an argument anyone is making.

Banjo-Kazooie released in June 1998, DK64 released in November 1999. BK predates the latter by nearly a year and a half, if anything DK64 used BK as a base, not the other way around.

Oh, my bad. I forgot the order.

Doesn't change that Super Mario 64 was the core 3D Platformer Collectathon that really impacted the genre as a whole. B&K overall were just an improvement on it, but definitely wasn't what made the genre span among multiple generations by far.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I actually disagree.

The corporate relationship between Nintendo and Square Enix is at an all time best since the pre-Playstation Era. Square Enix is dedicating tremendous resources to development on Nintendo systems, to the point where they even have an entire studio dedicated to such. They seem to be releasing exclusive after exclusive on the Switch, with Bravely Default 2 coming soon.

I think right now Square Enix is one of the closest third party companies to Nintendo, or at the very least is closer than most.

Point taken. Even so I think there are a few who could fit the bill. The crossovers with Ubisoft and Koei-Tecmo putting in work on first party games comes to mind. All things considered if we do get another Square character I hope it’s not ones people usually bring up, most notably 2B. I love the character but I would prefer the 3rd Square character to not be a JRPG sword user, and yes I’m aware of how unique Neir automata is compared to everything else, but I would adore if they went all in on a Western character and picked Lara Croft.

What I’m saying is, I’m biased to Lara.

 

[Hinata]

B&K was an improvement on DK64 first. The only reason we had B&K was because Rareware made a game with similar mechanics to get the formula down pretty well and then majorly improved it. That's a huge deal in why it worked. B&K also isn't really a series that spawned more than one major series either, so, it's just an N64 impact alone. A notable impact, but it's not something that spanned multiple generations.

SMRPG's impact created two major sub-series(Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi), who did their own thing while clearly using the formula, and heavily improving on it. And only one of them recently died due to AlphaDream dying, not because of some popularity issues. Paper Mario is still going super strong to this day because of SMRPG's major impact. Not being in Europe has zero effect on the fact that it still made a massive impact in creating new games. That spanned multiple generations. This matters too.

SMRPG's impact to gaming overall is simply bigger than B&K's. It'd help if the games after the 64 ones were actually worth noting on their own. One racing game spin-off, if I remember right another simple platformer on the Gameboy Advance or DS or something, and then Nuts & Boltz. The last one did pretty badly impact-wise, way worse than the Paper Mario series still does(as much hate as Sticker Star gets, it's still an extremely popular and well-selling game overall).

So yes, I'd say that's the world we live in. SMRPG had a bigger impact overall than B&K, who had a one-generation impact and that was it. It'd be awesome if it had more of an impact, but it simply didn't.

Chrono Trigger had barely much of an impact, enough to get 3 games and didn't do much. I wouldn't even put it in the ballpark of Final Fantasy, Mana, or Dragon Quest, which are severely more influential series. What things did Chrono Trigger spawn? Any actual games it helped create? Maybe? Some Action RPG's, possibly? If I'm remembering it wrong, then it'd be around SMRPG's impact level, cause the series was pretty quickly forgotten about for a long time. People asked for a remake and release, but not exactly a continuation of the series. The reason SMRPG isn't garnered for a continuation, is because it already continued with Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi, so there was no need. People wanted a remake at most, and rarely did some ask for a sequel. It's actually not a common request.

So Super Mario RPG is more influential because it died off thanks to being replaced by more popular and successful RPGs, due in no small part to the fact that it really didn't do anything other RPGs at the time weren't already doing, but Banjo-Kazooie, which was one of the games to help revolutionize and solidify the 3D platformer collectathon genre, isn't on the same level?

 

[SharkLord]

I too wish we had more bosses, and I wish they were more evenly-distributed among Classic Mode routes. The other bosses have such cool designs in terms of fighting, but if you try to clear Classic with every character, have fun fighting the hands like, 80% of the time. Oh, what's that? Ike's Classic route is called "Black-Clad Warriors"? So he fights Dracula who wears black, right? Nope. Hands.

If we can't get Black Knight as another fighter because he's "just another FE swordboi," we could at least have him doing double-duty as a boss like Rathalos. He would be a nice change of pace, being a human-size fighter fought on your level instead of a big scary monster.

While I want Rex I’d be fine with Nia. She’s awesome.

I now kinda want to see Nia get in before Rex, if only to see how the internet would react. Endless Nia quotes, attempted Scottish accents, Rex succeeds Spring Man as the new Chrom, etc. Bonus points if CacoMallow inexplicable becomes real there, so then Cacodemon costumes fly off the digital shelves because of the you-know-what jokes.