Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[CannonStreak]

I just don’t see the point of the hypothetical “but fans will be disappointed if he didn’t put in this character.” There will always be characters that miss out and most characters put in Smash are not the kind that vocal Internet fans constantly demand. He can’t put in all of them.

Yeah, that is true. Still, there are many characters in the world of video gaming, and people do get upset, especially when overly hyped up or setting their expectations high. So what can we do?

 

[PK-remling Fire]

yeg
We need more leaks and rumors, even they turn out to be fake. COVID has impacted a lot of release schedules; By the time Nintendo has everything 100% in order, it'll be time for the next Nintendo Direct anyways. There's only one solid release date from the Big N, and Paper Mario isn't a big request, so according to the Smash fandom there's no major releases. Also, we just got Min Min, so any attempted leaks would be drowned out anyways.
Let's go over whatever we have at the moment, no matter how minor!

• The LoL leak, that's still a thing, right?
• CacoMallow, I think the general consensus is that it's on death's door, moving on.
• A couple Touhou trademarks filed around February, including the Hakurei Shrine. Maybe she was to be the starter until COVID shoved everything back, or maybe I'm just biased.
• Some Rayman trademarks too, kinda like with Banjo. Don't know the full specifics, but i think that's noteworthy.
• As we all know, Spirit fanrule is dead. Yay for the 10000000th time!
• That old girl with flying weapon thing from a while back, why do we keep bringing this back up? Has the grave not been defiled enough?

...We really need more material.

Yeah, even though it is a good thing that Nintendo is becoming more air-tight, it certainly doesn't help on the speculation front.

Spoiler: As for the Touhou leak...

I know it's pretty much dead at this point, but let me dream

 

[StrawHatX]

We don’t even know if Square is going to get another character. If this is the last pass and there’s a good chance it might be split between first and third party characters then that means we’re only getting three third party characters.

Namco only has one character so far and Ubisoft still doesn’t have any. And there’s a lot of people thinking Crash might get in with being such an iconic character who is getting another big game this year. Microsoft might get another character with how much they’ve been partnering with Nintendo.

I honestly don’t care about Geno, but I’m not rooting against him either. I’d be happy for Geno fans is he gets in, but I think his costume is coming back. However I think there’s a good chance it will at least be an upgraded costume that comes with a song. I know that won’t make Geno fans happy, but it’s better than nothing.

I just think if Geno was going to be a playable character he would have been in the base game when Sakurai was doing his thing, and not in the DLC where the companies are making their picks. I don’t see why Square (if they even get another rep) would want Geno when they could add another character that would benefit them in promoting a series they’re actually continuing with.

 

[Aetheri]

J

So after playing Min Min for a bit, here are my rankings. I play casually, so no competitive criteria matter to me—it’s about uniqueness, attachment and fun.

1. Banjo & Kazooie
2. Hero
3. Joker
4. Byleth
5. Min Min
6. Terry

My biggest wants out of those in the passes were B&K and Joker (or a Persona character), though Joker’s not as fun to play as I pictured a Persona character being. Hero and Byleth were pleasant surprises when playing them.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

Super stoked about Min Min being added to the game and she is super fun to play thus far and Banjo is a welcome addition as well. Out of the remaining DLC Hero is the most fun to play. Don't really care for Joker or Terry, and wouldn't miss them. And I'm one of those that believes that adding Byleth was just a bad idea. But seeing as even before DLC I got a lot more than I expected to get and was already satisfied with the roster so I wasn't THAT salty about it. Plus I was also not that surprised, so that helped.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah, even though it is a good thing that Nintendo is becoming more air-tight, it certainly doesn't help on the speculation front.

Spoiler: As for the Touhou leak...

View attachment 276865
I know it's pretty much dead at this point, but let me dream

I mean, there's the Ness eye glitch, and maybe she's based on his model but with a different head.
Maybe?
Possibly?
...Please?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

speaking of glitches, hit me up when they discover an Inkling glitch

me when that happens:

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well if glitches lead to anything, Falcon's up Smash no longer plays the first hit sound properly if that means anything to anyone.

 

[SharkLord]

Well if glitches lead to anything, Falcon's up Smash no longer plays the first hit sound properly if that means anything to anyone.

Hmm... Who would have a similar animation to Cap's up smash without any sound...

 

[I.D.]

Whoever drew this is a Chad for including not only that girl Regina, but also that dude Raziel.

Also those Mitochondria Eve and Weltall cameos in the background.

 

[SKX31]

So after playing Min Min for a bit, here are my rankings. I play casually, so no competitive criteria matter to me—it’s about uniqueness, attachment and fun.

1. Banjo & Kazooie
2. Hero
3. Joker
4. Byleth
5. Min Min
6. Terry

My biggest wants out of those in the passes were B&K and Joker (or a Persona character), though Joker’s not as fun to play as I pictured a Persona character being. Hero and Byleth were pleasant surprises when playing them.

Okay, lets do this. My lens is more competitive, and not just because I'm an Elite Smash main (like Elite Smash ever matters...)

FTR, there's not been a character I disliked out of the six FPs so far:

1. - 50 songs. I'll take it with open arms. Terry himself is incredibly designed IMHO. Sure, Jab - Jab - Power Dunk might be a cliché at this point, but damn he's rewarding even when played on a casual level. Also, his GO moves are fun to pull off (even if they are a pain for someone not used to FGC inputs). All in all, he's a character that rewards creativity and input-learning while still being open to more casual play. My only qualm with how he's designed is that he can combo his dodge attack into Power Geyser relatively easily. The KOF stage is a favorite casual stage for me, what with the aformentioned songs and the real feel of a confined battle. Preventing the issues walk-off stages usually have too.

Yes, I personally favor fast, hard hitting characters that can overwhelm people.

2. - Was lukewarm towards him in the beginning, but love that the devastating attacks and spells (and the RNG) is thankfully balanced by the sword attacks being slow and laggy. The big strike against this character is the Language Barrier (which actually hindered a major Japanese player in a big American tournament), but on the whole the Hero was implemented excellently. The RNG can be a polarizing aspect, but Hero's got enough consistency to avoid being too reliant on RNG. His pack, while minimalist relative to others, made the most out of little.

3. - While my childhood favoritism towards the duo has cooled, it's nevertheless great to see them in the game. They're also well-implemented - it's telling when the edge attack is the only thing to be changed so far (in this case, buffed). My only gripe with them is that they have some strange hitboxes - Up-Tilt could use an earlier hitbox so it doesn't miss smaller / crouched opponents for example. On the whole, Sakurai and co. made the right call by turning them into a Jack-of-All-Trades character. Their pack also made the most out of what it got, with cameos creatively sprinkled (Gruntila and Tooty especially).

4. - Never saw this one coming. While I'm personally familiar with Persona 5 from Youtube videos and the like, it was nevertheless a nice surprise to see Joker in. He turned out a bit too dominant though - I agreed with the Arsene nerf a couple patches back (where Arsene's meter empties out faster when hit, forcing Joker to play more cautiously when Arsene's active). Luckily enough, he never became over-centralizing at all like and were. And he's certainly a fun character when one gets the hang of his strings and setups. A bit surprised when P3 and P4 got nothing more than music and Mii Costumes - but eh, it's not the end of the world. On the whole, the pack was great - the stage is certainly very interesting with Hazards on.

5. - Never been too much into ARMS, but the concept of a boxer-Mega Man was implemented really well. While it's too early to say how good she is, I do get the personal feeling that she's a bit too strong when attacking off stage and a bit too weak when trying to recover. This is especially apparent in a Min Min mirror match. Regardless, the issues I have aren't dealbreaking, the soundtrack is great and the stage looks to be a great casual stage. Her ability to cover multiple sides is a major bonus, since this gives her a unique niché as a character who deals with cross-ups (opponents passing by her shield). Also, her ARMS give her a major strategic element - which is another major plus.

6. - Should've seen this one coming. While I'm neutral on Fire Emblem, Byleth did give some unique attacks and mechanics. Having a direction correspond to a weapon is a great idea and provides easy memorization of what attacks do. That said, (s)he does have a few issues: Uncharged arrow is neutralized by Luigi's fireball, and his / her other ground attacks could use a small boost so Byleth isn't so reliant on the fast aerials. Still though, the music and stage were great additions and the character's certainly interesting on its own merits.

 

[SharkLord]

So after playing Min Min for a bit, here are my rankings. I play casually, so no competitive criteria matter to me—it’s about uniqueness, attachment and fun.

1. Banjo & Kazooie
2. Hero
3. Joker
4. Byleth
5. Min Min
6. Terry

My biggest wants out of those in the passes were B&K and Joker (or a Persona character), though Joker’s not as fun to play as I pictured a Persona character being. Hero and Byleth were pleasant surprises when playing them.

In terms of personal preference for the character themselves:

1. Byleth
2. Terry
3. Joker
4. Min Min
5. Hero
6. Banjo

In terms of the passes as a whole:

1. Terry
2. Joker
3. Min Min
4. Hero
5. Banjo
6. Byleth

Ironic, how Byleth manages to be at the top and the bottom simultaneously.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

My ranking regarding the DLC characters so far.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.

 

[RouffWestie]

I don't have a good way to rank the DLC since I've only bought + I would have been tempted to get Hero, but the RNG mechanics kind of killed it for me.
Personally I would say the 2 are equal all things considered.

 

[volbound1700]

Everyone knew my opinion before, I don't like Joker and I don't think he added much to Smash or the Fighter Pass. He definitely was a terrible character to kick it off with.

Crash or DoomGuy are far more iconic and would have made better picks. To me, the FP lacks that WOW character that people outside of Smash or niche groups would get excited over. (A wow character would be Sora, DoomGuy, Masterchief, Steve, Nathan Drake, Crash Bandicoot, etc. or if you use existing characters: Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Cloud, Ryu, Simon Belmont).

If I had to rank there, here are my rankings:

1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Hero
3. Terry Bougard (grew on him)
4. Min Min
5. Byleth
.
.
.
.
6. Joker

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So after playing Min Min for a bit, here are my rankings. I play casually, so no competitive criteria matter to me—it’s about uniqueness, attachment and fun.

1. Banjo & Kazooie
2. Hero
3. Joker
4. Byleth
5. Min Min
6. Terry

My biggest wants out of those in the passes were B&K and Joker (or a Persona character), though Joker’s not as fun to play as I pictured a Persona character being. Hero and Byleth were pleasant surprises when playing them.

Here are my rankings for the fighter pass characters... with happy faces.

1.
Fighter -
Stage -
Music -
2.
Fighter -
Stage -
Music -
3.
Fighter -
Stage -
Music -
4.
Fighter -
Stage -
Music -
5.
Fighter -
Stage -
Music -
6.
Fighter -
Stage -
Music -

 

[SharkLord]

Out of curiosity (re: Boredom), what was the shortest amount of time between a new fighter an a substantial leak?

 

[smashkirby]

Clubhouse Games, Hyrule Warriors, Devil's Third, Battalion Wars, Ginga no Sannin, Zekkyo Senshi Sakebrain, Time Twist: Rekishi no Katasumi de..., Eco Shooter: Plant 530, and Soccer.

Then, there is their latest titles that may or may not get spirit(s) in the form of Spirit Board.

* Cadence of Hyrule
* The Stretchers
* Good Job!
* Jump Rope Challenge

For those who are still wondering what Nintendo IPs are still not represented in Smash yet, SourceGaming compiled a list for such a thing a while back. Quick disclaimer that this list was compiled BEFORE Ultimate's release, so some series listed here may already be in Smash in some way by now.

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/03/15/nintendo-ip-not-in-ssb/

 

[MooMew64]

So after playing Min Min for a bit, here are my rankings. I play casually, so no competitive criteria matter to me—it’s about uniqueness, attachment and fun.

1. Banjo & Kazooie
2. Hero
3. Joker
4. Byleth
5. Min Min
6. Terry

My biggest wants out of those in the passes were B&K and Joker (or a Persona character), though Joker’s not as fun to play as I pictured a Persona character being. Hero and Byleth were pleasant surprises when playing them.

My rankings are probably as such:

1. Min Min

My favorite ARMS character, and probably my new main. I adore her design, and her playstyle, while unorthodox and having an extreme learning curve, is mad fun. After being a bit down on her chances in the weeks leading up to the big reveal, I was ecstatic to see her make it in, and she's easily one of my all time favorite Smash additions now. Min Min for the win win!

2. Byleth

Hadn't even played TH yet at the time, yet I wanted them for the cool whip-sword and rockin' design. They also did what I've been wanting for years and added in different FE weapons through them! I know they'll always be met with hatred by a lot of people because "Fire Emblem bad", but IDC, they're super cool, and I love the addition.

3. Hero

Something I never knew I wanted: RNG the character. They are my absolute FAVORITE to play casually, and I honestly think they have the best gimmick out of any of the DLC fighters.

4. Joker

I've cooled off on P5 quite a bit nowadays, but I still think Joker's a cool character. His stage, music, and moveset are all great, and it really was one of the wildest curveballs in Smash history.

5. Banjo

Haven't played a B&K yet outside Nuts and Bolts (don't judge, I didn't grow up during the N64 era, lol ) and I wanted Steve more, but they're super fun and a refreshing change of pace with a simple moveset and great Nintendo history. I'll probably become more fond of these two after I play a actual Banjo & Kazooie game.

6. Terry

The only DLC character so far that I'd say I actually disliked the inclusion of, personally. I just don't care about SNK that much, and my taste in fighting games is really picky and limited, so he just doesn't do anything for me.

 

[Aetheri]

Out of curiosity (re: Boredom), what was the shortest amount of time between a new fighter an a substantial leak?

Like a day.

Roy and Ryu were leaked literally the night before they were officially revealed. Plus there was the data mine that happened months before which is why characters use codenames now.

 

[Lamperouge]

1. 
   
2. 
   
3. 
   
4. 
   
5. 
   
6. 
   
7. 

Regarding my top three, Byleth and Min Min were two of my most wanted characters and both are extremely fun to play, but Joker introduced me to one of my favorite games ever so I'm very thankful for his inclusion.

 

[N3ON]

Out of curiosity (re: Boredom), what was the shortest amount of time between a new fighter an a substantial leak?

Within a week or two after Olimar's reveal, Lucario, Ness and Jigglypuff were leaked. Then in Smash 4 Ryu and Roy were datamined shortly after Lucas was revealed.

But both those of those slip-ups were due to Nintendo.

 

[SharkLord]

Like a day.

Roy and Ryu were leaked literally the night before they were officially revealed. Plus there was the data mine that happened months before which is why characters use codenames now.

After a new character, I mean. Like, how long does it usually take before the latest hot new rumor picks up. I'd presume the leakers would wait a while so the hype train wears off.
EDIT: Well then.

Within a week or two after Olimar's reveal, Lucario, Ness and Jigglypuff were leaked. Then in Smash 4 Ryu and Roy were datamined shortly after Lucas was revealed.

But both those of those slip-ups were due to Nintendo.

 

[N3ON]

After a new character, I mean. Like, how long does it usually take before the latest hot new rumor picks up. I'd presume the leakers would wait a while so the hype train wears off.

It's different for base than DLC. Base leaks more easily. You'll likely only get credible DLC leaks closer to the reveal, unless Nintendo bungles it.

But theoretically a real leak could pretty much happen whenever.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Well if glitches lead to anything, Falcon's up Smash no longer plays the first hit sound properly if that means anything to anyone.

Worth mentioning that the move just got buffed. I think it was to connect better, might have been given a better hitbox or something as well. So, could mean something. Probably just means changing it messed up the audio slightly.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Out of curiosity (re: Boredom), what was the shortest amount of time between a new fighter an a substantial leak?

Like a day.

Roy and Ryu were leaked literally the night before they were officially revealed. Plus there was the data mine that happened months before which is why characters use codenames now.

Also a Castlevania theme was accidently posted on the Smash Youtube channel like the night before Simon and Richter were revealed.

 

[Nesysli]

All the DLC characters have been really fun to me and are pretty unique in their own movesets, different play styles for different preferences and different gaming fanbases. While Piranha Plant & Joker's play styles aren't my favorite, they're both cool and the former was free. If I were to rank by how much I use them:
1.Terry or Byleth
2.Banjo
3.Hero
Add Palutena & Cloud and those are pretty much the only charchters I use. It's too early for to tell if I'll dig Min Min's play style but she's definitely a worthy addition. Overall I think they did a damn fine job with the DLC choices so far.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m terms of fun factor:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.

Most hype:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.

I feel like it’s kind of unsurprising for the bottom of both my lists to be Nintendo characters because there are very few Nintendo characters I really want and all of them are assists so. I’m not like upset they’re in, I love every character with the exception of PP for different reasons but I just don’t play as them and didn’t have much hype for them going in. All of this in comparison to how fun and hype the third parties are and I just kind of feel they’re lacking. The main problem with all 3 of the 1st parties is their gameplay. I just don’t find them as fun.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Fighter Pass Rank (Most to least)

1. Banjo-Kazooie: What can I say that already hasn't been said? They were my most wanted characters, It feels like they were built for Smash and love to see him fit right in with the Nintendo cast and Especially right next to DK, Diddy Kong and King K. Rool, I have pretty much mastered them and have become my main, Nearly 20 years in the making and still unreal to see them in Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Not to mention there the only DLC character's I bought so far too.

2. Piranha Plant: A surprising pick, But a really funny one, Plus it was funny to see everyone get mad at him because he's a common enemy, Fun to use and it's funny to see someone get their ass kicked by a ****ing plant. Plus he was free for early buyers of the game.

3. Joker: Didn't do much for me as the only JRPG series I play and care about is Pokemon, But I will say some of the music is pretty catchy, Particularly "Aria of the Soul" and at least he's somewhat different than your typical JRPG protagonist.

4.Terry: Didn't do much for me either as while I do like some fighting games, The only fighting game I ever got into other than Smash was "Killer Instinct", I like his stage and his "Buster Wolf" attack, But that's pretty much it.

5.Min Min: Don't really have much interest in "Arms", All I can say that I can somewhat understand Nintendo's attempt to promote it and at least it's not another Fire Emblem character.

6: Byleth and Hero: Like I said before I only care about Pokemon, So I have no interest at all on either of them, Though I get Dragon Quest is the "Father of JRPG's" so I guess I can understand that, Byleth at least has somewhat of different moveset than most FE characters, But still pretty annoying to see the franchise to get so many damn characters.

 

[ROBnWatch]

My DLC rankings...

1. Easily the most excited I’ve been for any of Ultimate’s DLC thus far, because it’s a character I knew, liked, and was able to participate in speculation for without sounding uninterested. Looks fun (haven’t been able to try her out yet), and the stage and music are hype.
2. A character who just makes sense to me, and you can tell how much love they put into everything about the character.
3. I hated Terry initially. I had no idea who he was, and the fact that he was leaked before he got announced (so all speculation focused on him) killed the initial reactions I may have had. But over time I’ve come to enjoy him.
4. I’ve got very mixed feelings on Joker. When he was first announced, I was underwhelmed. But as the days went by and got closer for his release, I just started getting hyped because it was something new. Nothing against him, but not much big going for him either, at least in my opinion.
5. Byleth was underwhelming simply because another FE Rep. But still fun to play, I’ve had fun matches with and against Byleth. Could honestly be swapped with Joker, but I’ll just put them in their reveal order.
6. Oh, right, Hero’s in the game. When one of your main gimmicks (Command Select) is something I never use in regular gameplay, you’re gonna land down here. Random crit attacks are just...why? And besides those, he just feels stale and uninteresting to me.

If you wanna throw in , he’d probably go on either side of Terry. Not sure which though. If you enjoyed a character more than I did, I’m glad for you. This is just my opinion, don’t take it seriously.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

We don’t even know if Square is going to get another character. If this is the last pass and there’s a good chance it might be split between first and third party characters then that means we’re only getting three third party characters.

Namco only has one character so far and Ubisoft still doesn’t have any. And there’s a lot of people thinking Crash might get in with being such an iconic character who is getting another big game this year. Microsoft might get another character with how much they’ve been partnering with Nintendo.

I honestly don’t care about Geno, but I’m not rooting against him either. I’d be happy for Geno fans is he gets in, but I think his costume is coming back. However I think there’s a good chance it will at least be an upgraded costume that comes with a song. I know that won’t make Geno fans happy, but it’s better than nothing.

I just think if Geno was going to be a playable character he would have been in the base game when Sakurai was doing his thing, and not in the DLC where the companies are making their picks. I don’t see why Square (if they even get another rep) would want Geno when they could add another character that would benefit them in promoting a series they’re actually continuing with.

The way I see it, Square Enix and Nintendo have an incredibly strong relationship this generation, and Square Enix has a large amount of prominent new series Sakurai and Nintendo could be interested in (Bravely, Nier, TWEWY, Lara Croft, Kingdom Hearts if they can somehow rope in Disney, etc.). While I don't think it's a given as it was last pass, I could very much see another Square Enix character on this pass.

I'm currently starting a larger speculation essay on the topic where I'll expand upon this thought and talk about the different characters I believe are in the running, but for now I'll say it's certainly not impossible.

 

[Speed Weed]

alright here are my rankings i guess

1.
where do i even begin with terry? character who i really wanted, amazing trailer, amazing moveset, amazing stage with amazing cameos, amazing music with friggin' 50 of them, terry was ****ing perfect. he gets a 9.9999999999999999999999/10 outta me. only reason it's not a 10 is the lack of garou alt
2.
i don't have that much of an interest in dragon quest, but they were a really fun character. also, eight has a rat, so clearly they're the best.
3.
they're fun, and it's always nice to see big fan requests make it in.
4.
i'm conflicted on min min. on one hand, she's really cool and i'm super happy arms got proper representation, but i'm also not sure how to feel for reasons i've ranted about before and don't feel like ranting about again
5.
joker's an interesting case, because i actually really liked him at first, but a whole year of wacky internet experiences has soured me a bit on him, admittedly.
6.
i didn't like byleth. i just didn't. i'm not gonna act pissy about it, i'm not gonna try and rain on byleth fans' parade, i just didn't like them myself. plain and simple.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The way I see it, Square Enix and Nintendo have an incredibly strong relationship this generation, and Square Enix has a large amount of prominent new series Sakurai and Nintendo could be interested in (Bravely, Nier, TWEWY, Lara Croft, Kingdom Hearts if they can somehow rope in Disney, etc.). While I don't think it's a given as it was last pass, I could very much see another Square Enix character on this pass.

I'm currently starting a larger speculation essay on the topic where I'll expand upon this thought and talk about the different characters I believe are in the running, but for now I'll say it's certainly not impossible.

To be fair. There’s a number of companies you could say this with. Ubisoft, Microsoft, SNK, Namco, SEGA, Bethesda. There’s a lot of companies that Nintendo is close with that have interesting properties up for grabs. What makes all those companies less likely than Square is the real question.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Going on how fun they are to play...

Top Tier:


High Tier:


Mid Tier:


Ehhhhh Tier:

 

[N3ON]

1.
Number one couldn't be anything else. I know not everyone is taken with his moveset, obv ymmv, but to me it feels like a Brawl moveset imo, which is when he probably would've been added had Rare never got scooped up. And it's not like the Brawl characters are "bad". My one gripe is I wish the hues of his stage were a bit more cartoonishly bright rather than the more realistic approach they went with, but that's minor.

2.
The biggest surprise for me is Hero, who is a character I don't really care about, but find quite fun to play. I think those critical hits are a bit RNG-excessive, but I dig his spells and mana system. Also a benefit that most of the people I play with haven't bothered taking the time to learn what his spells actually do, which gives me an advantage.

3.
Don't have much to say about Terry. It's fun to use his super moves, and to listen to his Engrish, but I'm not going to put in the time to get really good with him. I like his stage's gimmick though.

4.
Jury is still out on Min Min. I might end up swapping her with Joker. She seems nuanced yet lacking at the same time for some reason. It feels like she's missing moves, and using her effectively makes me feel like I'm playing cheaply. But I like her as a character.

5.
Joker I have even less to say about than Terry. I don't dislike the character, I'm not wild about him either, and the playstyle isn't for me. Happy his fans are happy, I suppose.

6.
I've already said a lot about Byleth. But moveset-wise, the character underwhelmed me. It feels uninspired to me. I know some people say that about Banjo's moveset, and to each their own, but it just feels like Byleth had more moveset potential that went unrealized. And character-wise, Byleth is just boring imo. I get why they went with that pick, but I would've much preferred Edelgard or Claude or even Dimitri. Oh well. To that end, I do like the stage, because I liked 3H.

7.
And then there's the plant.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That's the thing though- it's not so simple as to say, "Sakurai wants Geno, so he's likely". Sakurai wanted Geno, yet we got Cloud and Hero. I think if anything, we're in agreement- while Cloud and Hero are "bigger fish" and there's still possible "bigger fish" from Square Enix, that in itself is an explanation as to, "Why hasn't Sakurai picked Geno yet?"

My point was that if that point was truly that strong, then it would stand to reason that he'd be in the game if Sakurai were picking, hands off from Nintendo. But he isn't, which suggests there's other criteria or reasoning that prevents Sakurai from adding Geno.

That said, I'm dragging this comment on for basically no reason. I agree, and I personally think the "bigger fish" is what could very likely be something that could leave Geno out to dry yet again if Square Enix gets another character in Smash, like 2B.

I considered it obvious that Sakurai has other criteria than just "I want this character". He's a professional, he has a vision for Smash and a criteria for what characters fit it and which ones don't. Fans constantly debate on who "deserves to be first" within certain groups of characters; you think Sakurai doesn't have his own thoughts on that matter?

He constantly tries to avoid bias in Smash selection. It took Kirby until Brawl to get a second character, even though Dedede was in heavy consideration for the first game. Terry's from one of the series he's most fond of, and as we know now negotiations were super easy, yet he felt it better to add legends like Mega Man, Ryu, and Pac-Man first. I don't think it's farfetched to assume that, while he might have seriously considered Geno in the more Nintendo-focused Brawl era, by the time Smash 4 DLC came around he felt that the Square Enix representative should be Cloud.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

To be fair. There’s a number of companies you could say this with. Ubisoft, Microsoft, SNK, Namco, SEGA, Bethesda. There’s a lot of companies that Nintendo is close with that have interesting properties up for grabs. What makes all those companies less likely than Square is the real question.

I actually disagree.

The corporate relationship between Nintendo and Square Enix is at an all time best since the pre-Playstation Era. Square Enix is dedicating tremendous resources to development on Nintendo systems, to the point where they even have an entire studio dedicated to such. They seem to be releasing exclusive after exclusive on the Switch, with Bravely Default 2 coming soon.

I think right now Square Enix is one of the closest third party companies to Nintendo, or at the very least is closer than most.

 

[AreJay25]

I guess we're doing rankings?

Spoiler

Character excitement tier:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.

Fun tier:
1.
2.
3.
4. (so far, at least)
5.
6.
7.

Yeah I might really like Terry being in the game, I dunno

If you asked me how fun I thought Banjo was when he first came out, he probably would have been higher, but the more I played him the less I enjoyed him.

 

[Will]

And I'm one of those that believes that adding Byleth was just a bad idea

Totally agree, it's common knowledge Claude was the superior choice.

 

[SNEKeater]

That's the thing though- it's not so simple as to say, "Sakurai wants Geno, so he's likely". Sakurai wanted Geno, yet we got Cloud and Hero. I think if anything, we're in agreement- while Cloud and Hero are "bigger fish" and there's still possible "bigger fish" from Square Enix, that in itself is an explanation as to, "Why hasn't Sakurai picked Geno yet?"

My point was that if that point was truly that strong, then it would stand to reason that he'd be in the game if Sakurai were picking, hands off from Nintendo. But he isn't, which suggests there's other criteria or reasoning that prevents Sakurai from adding Geno.

That said, I'm dragging this comment on for basically no reason. I agree, and I personally think the "bigger fish" is what could very likely be something that could leave Geno out to dry yet again if Square Enix gets another character in Smash, like 2B.

People says Sakurai wanted Geno, and that's true, but some then act like Sakurai was relatively "forced" to put Final Fantasy and DQ before Geno. Him not directly saying that he wanted to add Cloud or Hero doesn't mean he didn't wanted to include these characters. If we follow that then most of the roster are characters that Sakurai didn't want to add lol

What I mean is, we know Sakurai likes JRPGs. It isn't far fetched to imagine that he also wanted to add FF and DQ to Smash. Both are pivotal series of the genre. And that doesn't mean he didn't wanted Geno or something like that. It's possible for anyone to like or being interested in multiple things at once. So him saying "I want Geno in Smash" doesn't mean "I want Geno in Smash instead of FF/DQ" or "I only want Geno if we speak of Square characters".

 

[GoodGrief741]

Guess we're doing rankings now

Considered maining tier


A lot of fun to play tier


Ugh tier



I haven't bought Min Min yet, I like what I've seen but I don't enjoy playing as overly technical characters so depending on how complex she is I guess she could be anywhere on here (though I think I'll at least enjoy her more than Plant).