Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Aetheri]

Decided to go over my DLC ratings since I was stingie on the explanations and I forgot to include plant boi.

-Obviously my favourite DLC fighter so far! I really enjoyed playing Arms and she is my main in that game! Never expected they'd go with her for the Arms rep, but here we are. Still getting the hang of her, but she essentially plays like you would in Arms which is great. Seems to be a common theme for fighting game characters like with RyuKen and Terry and how they play compared to their home series, puts into perspective the issues Sakurai was having with Heihachi. I am definitely enjoying her in Smash and she'll definitely be part of my rotation for sure. Depending on how good she'll be maybe even in my Top 3 (but honestly my Dark Samus and Roy are no pushovers if I say so myself, and there's no way she'll dethrone my Link)

-Despite not owning an N64 I do have some nostalgic connection to Banjo since it was one of the many games I'd played at Wal-Mart while my mom was shopping and I had a lot of fun running around finding Jiggys and such. Once Smash was released I was curious as to why they weren't in the game. I mean we got Mario, Yoshi, DK, 'Zelda', and Pikachu but where's the bird and the bear? So no doubt it's a long time coming and he feels like a natural fit in Smash. He's definitely pretty fun to play and I do use him a decent amount even though I don't put that much time into him.

-Me when watching the trailer: "Mario's pissed AF right now" *sarcastically*"Piranha Plant confirmed!!"....."wait what? SAKURAI I WAS JOKING!!!" Anyways the one character that literally nobdy saw coming at all. And he's surprisingly super fun to play. Honestly everyone's arguing about who can get into Smash or not and who deserves it and who should be next and they always forget Sakurai added this damn plant in the game and I both hate it and love it! lol

-No real attachment to Dragon Quest. But despite that Hero is a character that I find to be very fun to play around with, given the RNG can really make the matches go in more unpredictable ways. Almost feels like playing an RPG game when using Hero, only thing missing is a level up system. Of course that would just be broken though.

-He was hype when he was announced because he was so outta left field. But despite that I am pretty indifferent to both him and the Persona series. And he's the kind of character I just can't get into actually playing.

-Pretty sure I played some Fatal Fury/King of Fighters in some old arcades back in the day (I don't really know I was too young to notice) but not too big on the series as a whole. Truth be told I completely forgot they even existed until the SNK leak happened when all of these characters including Terry started invading speculation. Don't particularly enjoy playing him that much considering the button inputs aren't really my thing.

-Already mentioned that I was disappointed with their inclusion into Smash. But that said I'm not THAT upset considering all this is just bonus anyways. But playing them I'm also not that fond of. Corrin I at least have some fun playing as from time to time but Byleth just doesn't do anything for me, easily my least favourite fighter for this DLC so far.

 

[DuskFleur]

Oops! I forgot what riling meant for a second. My bad. Still, not every Geno fan is that bad. Regardless, I wonder how Geno fans be if Sakurai never wanted Geno in a Smash Bros. game? They do overhype Geno and exaggerate his chances, especially with that one guy I am not going to name, but the one who does theories. I feel they are leading themselves to disappointment, even if they say they won't be disappointed.

That's what overzealous fan speculation and echo chambers create: disappointment. I distinctly remember people throwing a hissy fit over the Grinch Hoax not being real, hyping themselves over what was ultimately nothing and disappointing themselves. That's why I just tend to go with the flow with Smash reveals. Character I want gets in? I'm happy! They don't get in? I might be a little upset, but I certainly won't cause trouble over it. Setting yourself up on what's only a small possibility will only lead to disappointment and pointless pain. Example: Even though I personally want Sora to get into the game, I'm honestly not holding my breath because of the various potential issues around him, especially in regards to copyright.

 

[DuskFleur]

Ngl, at this point I think I'd rather they update Stage builder to allow people to make their own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms or Race to the Finish levels than add these modes by hand.

Saves dev time, lets fans express their ideas and gives shared content a bigger replay factor.

Okay, now that is an idea I can get behind. You know all those pointless "challenge" Stage Builder videos on YouTube? They might actually serve a decent purpose now...

 

[N3ON]

Oops! I forgot what riling meant for a second. My bad. Still, not every Geno fan is that bad.

No, not every Geno fan is bad. Some are rational, some are benevolent. Unfortunately some get discouraged by the more extreme ones and disengage. But the bigger the fanbase is, the more of all types they'll accrue. Good, and bad. And the more there are, the more they'll galvanize each other.

Regardless, I wonder how Geno fans be if Sakurai never wanted Geno in a Smash Bros. game? They do overhype Geno and exaggerate his chances, especially with that one guy I am not going to name, but the one who does theories. I feel they are leading themselves to disappointment, even if they say they won't be disappointed.

If Sakurai never wanted Geno in the game you wouldn't have that statement they hold so dear, and probably the Mii costume as well, and then the decline the fanbase was on during the Smash 4 era prior to those aspects coming to light would've persisted and you'd probably hear little from them these days.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's what overzealous fan speculation and echo chambers create: disappointment. I distinctly remember people throwing a hissy fit over the Grinch Hoax not being real, hyping themselves over what was ultimately nothing and disappointing themselves. That's why I just tend to go with the flow with Smash reveals. Character I want gets in? I'm happy! They don't get in? I might be a little upset, but I certainly won't cause trouble over it. Setting yourself up on what's only a small possibility will only lead to disappointment and pointless pain. Example: Even though I personally want Sora to get into the game, I'm honestly not holding my breath because of the various potential issues around him, especially in regards to copyright.

At the same time, this "holier than thou" attitude isn't helping things.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Ngl, at this point I think I'd rather they update Stage builder to allow people to make their own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms or Race to the Finish levels than add these modes by hand.

Saves dev time, lets fans express their ideas and gives shared content a bigger replay factor.

I remember before Stage Builder came out, I had been hoping it would include a Break the Targets maker. I adore Melee's BTT and how it's tailored to each character, so it gives you some good practice with that character's movement. But individual BTT for over 80 characters is too big of an ask from the devs, imo. The perfect way to have it again is to have players make their own.

 

[Will]

From the most hype to the most vehemently hated. Burn me at the stake if you so choose.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

From the most hype to the most vehemently hated. Burn me at the stake if you so choose.

Let me guess. It wasn't Fulgore? Or did you hate B&K for another reason?

 

[AugustusB]

Perhaps someone will know the answer. Has a base game spirit been updated with a mii costume? Not a spirit battle being added like Ribbon Girl or Ninjara, but rather, has Rex's spirit battle been updated to show mii costume Rex instead of Shulk?

 

[CannonStreak]

I may have seen Geno fans being harsh towards other characters they have viewed as a threat to Geno getting in a few times, but I believe that hasn't happened that often. The staff did tell the Geno thread to calm down, that is for sure, but recently, aside from overhyping Geno, not much harshness has happened.

That's what overzealous fan speculation and echo chambers create: disappointment. I distinctly remember people throwing a hissy fit over the Grinch Hoax not being real, hyping themselves over what was ultimately nothing and disappointing themselves. That's why I just tend to go with the flow with Smash reveals. Character I want gets in? I'm happy! They don't get in? I might be a little upset, but I certainly won't cause trouble over it. Setting yourself up on what's only a small possibility will only lead to disappointment and pointless pain. Example: Even though I personally want Sora to get into the game, I'm honestly not holding my breath because of the various potential issues around him, especially in regards to copyright.

What happened with the Grinch leak is what I am worried will happen with Geno fans if they keep this up, which sadly enough, they will. I am also not holding breath for Geno, and I believe he is less likely than what most Geno fans think.

No, not every Geno fan is bad. Some are rational, some are benevolent. Unfortunately some get discouraged by the more extreme ones and disengage. But the bigger the fanbase is, the more of all types they'll accrue. Good, and bad. And the more there are, the more they'll galvanize each other.


If Sakurai never wanted Geno in the game you wouldn't have that statement they hold so dear, and probably the Mii costume as well, and then the decline the fanbase was on during the Smash 4 era prior to those aspects coming to light would've persisted and you'd probably hear little from them these days.

On the first part, happens too often, and it doesn't help that fanbases like Geno's is full of different people, key word, different.

For the second part, based on what you said, I think most of, but not all of hype for Geno started with Sakurai saying he wanted Geno in Smash since Brawl. Not completely, again, but that just encouraged fans to support Geno more than they would if it weren't for Sakurai.

 

[Will]

Let me guess. It wasn't Fulgore? Or did you hate B&K for another reason?

I just don't like cereal mascots.

It isn't hate like I will harass someone for liking Banjo, I just don't like him.

 

[N3ON]

The **** are they gonna do, assassinate Crash Bandicoot?

Redirect his invitation HALFWAY TO SIBERIA.

 

[CannonStreak]

I just don't like cereal mascots.

Why not? They'rrrrrre Great!

Sorry, just had to quote Tony the Tiger here, but I would not call them cereal mascots, personally, and plus, they are not that bad I say.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Alright, which boss do you want to include in the Classic Mode route of your most wanted? For me:

Master/Crazy Hand
-Crash
-Sora
-Ryota Hayami

Giga Bowser
-Axel Stone

Rathalos
-Bandana Dee
-Captain Toad
-Euden

Ganon
-Sakura Shinguji

Marx
-Rayman

Just to name a few.

Dracula: Neku (Dracula could represent Megumi Kitaniji)

Galleom: Octoling (OE spoiler reasons)

Giga Bowser: Elma (X spoiler reasons)

Master/Crazy Hand: KOS-MOS

Ganon: Black Shadow (yeah idk here)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I just don't like cereal mascots.

It isn't hate like I will harass someone for liking Banjo, I just don't like him.

Fair enough.

I honestly prefer Fulgore over him, but both are cool characters.

 

[ZelDan]

If I were to rank the DLC characters on how exciting I found them:

1. Min Min was pretty cool just because we finally saw another Nintendo franchise without playable representation get a playable character. The only other time we saw this was with Inkling from Splatoon. Min min herself has a cool design and I did really enjoy ARMS, so that certainly helped in making me like her inclusion
2.I loved FE Three Houses and considered it my GotY 2019, so naturally I was happy to see Three houses content make it into Smash. While I would have preferred one of the house leaders, the way they handled Byleth's moveset actually made the Byleths grow on me, and I was happy to see the weapon triangle exist in Smash.
3. I'm not a Banjo fan myself, and I didn't even check his games out until AFTER his Smash reveal, but still seeing how hype and happy Banjo fans were and knowing how badly they wanted it, I couldn't help but be a bit happy about it too.
4.Never played Fatal Fury or King of Fighters, or really seriously checked out any SNK franchise. Still, Seeing Sakurai geek out over Terry and seeing the crazy amount of content that came with him was pretty cool.
5.I'm not huge into DQ myself. I've only played DQVII 3DS and about half of DQVIII 3DS. The only Hero I have any affiliation with is Eight ans again, I only played half of his game, so I can't say his inclusion means THAT much to me. Still, I can kinda get into the Heroes' inclusion just because I know DQ is the grandfather of the JRPG, a genre I am a fan of, so seeing such large, historical things make it into Smash is always neat.
6.Never played a Persona game (yet atleast, I did buy P4G on Steam), and, well, that's all I have to say about that. Joker's inclusion just didn't really do anything for me.
7. Absolutely disgusting

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I'm finding myself curious as to what kind of gameplay or character choices Nintendo might/will make in the next Smash game given that its likely not going to be a variation of Ultimate. On one hand its such a golden goose and has been so perfected in various ways with this current edition that to change it seems crazy, but you also run the risk of having a title too similar to a previous one to the point that some would wonder why they should buy it.

Radical shifts in major fighting games have been hit and miss, whether its Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat and with Smash there's so many various directions they could choose to emphasize in the next game.

Honestly, with more and more guest characters making their way into Smash, if the next game is going to shake things up, at least in regards to the roster... I think it should go all out and just be a full crossover fighting game, with one half of the roster being Nintendo characters, and the other half being characters from another company.

For example, I don't know how Smash fans would feel about this idea, but as someone who's also a fan of Capcom's Versus Series, a "Nintendo vs. Capcom" game has been something fans of that series have been wanting to see happen for a while, and it's something I'd love to see happen if the next Smash game were to just go full crossover-mode.

And just for fun-sies... here's something I previously posted in the Social Thread a while ago, detailing my preferred roster for a hypothetical "Smash Bros. vs. Capcom" game (by the way, this was made before Min Min was revealed as the ARMS fighter)...

Spoiler: My take on "Super Smash Bros. vs. Capcom" (spoiler-ed for size)

 

[Will]

Why not? They'rrrrrre Great!

Sorry, just had to quote Tony the Tiger here, but I would not call them cereal mascots, personally, and plus, they are not that bad I say.

I use "cereal mascots" to categorize that type of anthropomorphic design. It isn't a big deal, those types of characters just aren't for me, Crash included as well. If you check any of my most wanted lists, they're all from M-Rated games, except Waluigi. Banjo and Crash are my literal antithesis for appealing characters and/or games.

Like what you like, and I'll like what I like.

 

[DuskFleur]

At the same time, this "holier than thou" attitude isn't helping things.

"Holier than thou"? Is that what you seriously think my intent was? To show off my "moral superiority" to other people? I'm just stating how I feel and what I do in regards to the Smash hype train. I try not to set myself up for disappointment, because I know that it will happen to me if I set any sort of expectations.

 

[CannonStreak]

I use "cereal mascots" to categorize that type of anthropomorphic design. It isn't a big deal, those types of characters just aren't for me, Crash included as well. If you check any of my most wanted lists, they're all from M-Rated games, except Waluigi. Banjo and Crash are my literal antithesis for appealing characters and/or games.

Like what you like, and I'll like what I like.

Yeah, except I was just saying, not forcing my opinion on you, even if it seemed that way.

 

[Will]

Yeah, except I was just saying, not forcing my opinion on you, even if it seemed that way.

It's fine.

Banjo is the only choice I dislike, Joker is only that low because I've never touched Persona. I'd probably like it if someone threw me a PS4 and a copy of the game. But I'm just apathetic, I don't care about him at all.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I'm cool with the term "Cereal Mascots", It's an easy way to categorize them and actually find it funny and that's coming from a big Banjo-Kazooie supporter.

Hell, My current most wanted character is "Crash Bandicoot" and even I freaking call him that.

Their my favorite video game archetype because platformers are my favorite genre and in my opinion fit the best in Smash seeing how it's a "Platform Fighter".

 

[Will]

I honestly prefer Fulgore over him, but both are cool characters.

Fulgore is the coolest Microsoft character we'll never have in Smash.

 

[Shroob]

O...m...g

YOU FORGOT GENO AND HERO ARE BOTH MADE BY SQUARE ENIX!?!?

Anyway...


Not lock he could still get the costume despite not being with hero since both are made by square

But yea the min min spirit not being removed (and can be equipped to min min) and the fighter spirit looking different it can never be used as a argument against Him ever again

And before you say the only one official picture of him

Just use the smash ultimate fighter pose spirit like

Or his sprite in gameplay like

Calm your ****, I didn't forget ****.

But again, it doesn't mean anything.


This thought process of "Geno seems more likely because they haven't shown off his Mii outfit, they would have obviously shown it off with Hero cause they're both made by Square!" is soo damn flawed.


We got Akira and Jacky, two SEGA characters, in a pack of SNK costumes, by this logic, they should have been with Joker.

We got Heihachi just randomly, when it'd have made more sense to have him in the pack of Fighting game costumes.

We're still missing the Chocobo hat.


The cold, hard truth is just that they wanted the Dragon Quest Mii costume section to JUST be Dragon Quest themed, this doesn't help Geno's chances more than any other character, and jumping to assumptions that this boosts him to astronomically high standards as some put it as "A lock" is just digging your own grave of disappointment when they decide to throw him in a Mii pack randomly in the future.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly, with more and more guest characters making their way into Smash, if the next game is going to shake things up, at least in regards to the roster... I think it should go all out and just be a full crossover fighting game, with one half of the roster being Nintendo characters, and the other half being characters from another company.

For example, I don't know how Smash fans would feel about this idea, but as someone who's also a fan of Capcom's Versus Series, a "Nintendo vs. Capcom" game has been something fans of that series have been wanting to see happen for a while, and it's something I'd love to see happen if the next Smash game were to just go full crossover-mode.

And just for fun-sies... here's something I previously posted in the Social Thread a while ago, detailing my preferred roster for a hypothetical "Smash Bros. vs. Capcom" game (by the way, this was made before Min Min was revealed as the ARMS fighter)...

Spoiler: My take on "Super Smash Bros. vs. Capcom" (spoiler-ed for size)

Capcom does seem like the obvious choice for something like that. Square Enix has a great library but seem tricky to work with, and Konami seems so indifferent to its video games division that working with them might not even be worth it.

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, when I see someone who is hyped for any character to an unreasonable degree, and they say they won't be disappointed if they are not in, even though they likely may be, I'd like to think of those as their famous last words. Not that they will die and those are truly their last words, but I'd say those kinds of things would be like the latter in terms of being so sure about something, if you all know what I mean.

 

[StrangeKitten]

If the next Smash game has a crazy amount of newcomers, like 20 to 30 in base game and then DLC on top of that, that might generate a ton of hype for it. Ultimate is definitely going to be tough act to follow if they can't get everyone back, which Sakurai has said would be really, really difficult. But a big cast of newcomers could soften the blow a lot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"Holier than thou"? Is that what you seriously think my intent was? To show off my "moral superiority" to other people? I'm just stating how I feel and what I do in regards to the Smash hype train. I try not to set myself up for disappointment, because I know that it will happen to me if I set any sort of expectations.

You may not intend to come off that way, but you ARE coming off that way.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

Personally my favorite DLC has to be both Terry Bogard and Min Min. Terry because Fatal Fury is one of my favorite fighting games and I've heard about him back in the 90s when reading EGM and thought he looked so cool. Min Min because ARMS is such a great new IP that was unfairly neglected for a while that I almost thought it was in danger of being forgotten and I was so glad Nintendo remembered it. I may be lukewarm on Byleth but seeing as every new Smash DLC character is someone's favorite I don't act pissy towards Sakurai's/Nintendo's picks. (Heck, seeing Joker in Smash makes me pray Atlus ports Persona 5 to the Switch one day.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fulgore is the coolest Microsoft character we'll never have in Smash.

Yeah, I really doubt him over Master Chief or Steve, the biggest frontrunners. They also have way more fan requests to this day, and that makes sense.

It's sad, but Killer Instinct isn't looked upon much despite having a pretty big impact on fighting games. It defined combos(before Street Fighter II did, though to be fair, it was a glitch at first), announcer chatter(things like Killer Combo, etc. This was huge and became huge for a long time. The small bits like a Name or Perfect were all that existed at the time, which is still important too) and gave us the Combo Breaker. The last one started to get ingrained to fighting games for a long time, and the Counter moves in Smash are extremely similar gameplay to it, though only coincidentally.

Though the exact things like Ultra Combo weren't really KI first, but MK first, as it did the Fatality-like statements. KI just improved it far more by adding a lot of emphasis to each word, changing it constantly per the particular situation. MK didn't introduce unique finishing types till later on, which was inspired by that. So they helped each other out, especially since KI was a parody of MK's design to a degree.

 

[Will]

Yeah, I really doubt him over Master Chief or Steve, the biggest frontrunners. They also have way more fan requests to this day, and that makes sense.

And even then, we'd get Battletoads before Fulgore. Is KI even popular in the land of the rising sun?

 

[DuskFleur]

You may not intend to come off that way, but you ARE coming off that way.

I'm starting to think that all of you hate me. You certainly seem to, at least.

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm starting to think that all of you hate me. You certainly seem to, at least.

We don't hate you. You just need to be more careful in terms of how you state things like your opinions.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And even then, we'd get Battletoads before Fulgore. Is KI even popular in the land of the rising sun?

I doubt it?

Inspiring fighting games doesn't get you released everywhere else. I think barely one game got released in Japan. It's not like Mortal Kombat which got a few amount of releases, and most of them are more black market releases instead of proper ones under CERO lately(which is confused with being "banned in Japan", which was never really the case).

But which Battletoad would be the starter. And how do you deal with the alternate colors easily? You only got 3. Too bad there aren't 4 Battletoads. Though I guess you could just throw in a costume resembling Queen Galaxia and then do alternate colors like that. Not too different from Joker having only 2 unique alts, or Zero Suit Samus, etc.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm starting to think that all of you hate me. You certainly seem to, at least.

Nobody hates you, man.

I even agree that people need to accept that they maybe disappointed. I just don't agree with HOW you're saying it.

 

[Shroob]

I doubt it?

Inspiring fighting games doesn't get you released everywhere else. I think barely one game got released in Japan. It's not like Mortal Kombat which got a few amount of releases, and most of them are more black market releases instead of proper ones under CERO lately(which is confused with being "banned in Japan", which was never really the case).

But which Battletoad would be the starter. And how do you deal with the alternate colors easily? You only got 3. Too bad there aren't 4 Battletoads. Though I guess you could just throw in a costume resembling Queen Galaxia and then do alternate colors like that. Not too different from Joker having only 2 unique alts, or Zero Suit Samus, etc.

Which Battletoad is the main in Killer Instinct? Rash? It'd probably be Rash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Which Battletoad is the main in Killer Instinct? Rash? It'd probably be Rash.

I think Rash is supposed to be the leader anyway.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Which Battletoad is the main in Killer Instinct? Rash? It'd probably be Rash.

I think it was Rash, yeah.

Though maybe one was the leader in the tv show or something? They sometimes use outside materials or various booklets to help figure these things out.

Coincidentally Rash is unique as a type of blemish. As Zits and Pimple are literally synonyms.

 

[Will]

I'm starting to think that all of you hate me. You certainly seem to, at least.

​

Chill the **** out, you've literally only been here for five days.

 

[Shroob]

I think Rash is supposed to be the leader anyway.

I think it was Rash, yeah.

Though maybe one was the leader in the tv show or something? They sometimes use outside materials or various booklets to help figure these things out.

Coincidentally Rash is unique as a type of blemish. As Zits and Pimple are literally synonyms.

If we got ****ing Rash in Smash, just how many goddamn early internet memes could we squeeze into a single Smash fight?


Corneria(Barrel Roll!)
Richter(Die monster, you don't belong in this world!)
Rash(Battletoads, obviously)

What else