Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Shroob]

I guess I could see how a mobile only game or character could be an issue when you consider servers shutting down. But I don't think a mobile game or mobile appearance from a character should necessarily not count.

*looks at Dixie Kong in Mario kart tour*

I'm moreso talking about characters like Euden from Dragalia Lost, who, as of now, exist only within Dragalia.

They don't have a thousand offshoot games, anime, etc like Fate does

Or a fighting game like Grandblue

It's just, the one mobile game, and when that game's gone, unless it branches out, its legacy leaves with it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You'd think that, but those kinda games come out and die all the time, with 0 preservation.

Yeah, the interest is just not there (ngl I totally see why). But, the server problem aside, it should be just a matter of googling an apk and downloading it. The code's up there already, hell, you can emulate stuff like old Blackberry games and ****. Won't help with stuff like timed events though.

Who knows? Maybe years down the line people will want to see what the deal was and they'll find a way. People have found out ways to preserve Satellaview games, compared to that finding the code for a game in the age of the internet should be a piece of cake.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'd assume videogame preservation peeps will make sure that even mobile games are available to play in some form after the servers go down. Though honestly, who'd want to play a gacha on unofficial servers? I don't think there's a fanbase so dedicated that they'd be playing ten years after the fact with a reduced community, no new content, and no ability to pay for stuff.

I remember there being a super good Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 that came out on iOS and it’s just...gone.

 

[Arcanir]

I'm moreso talking about characters like Euden from Dragalia Lost, who, as of now, exist only within Dragalia.

They don't have a thousand offshoot games, anime, etc like Fate does

Or a fighting game like Grandblue

It's just, the one mobile game, and when that game's gone, unless it branches out, its legacy leaves with it.

I can understand that concern and it's honestly one I share as well, but I will say it also depends on what they want to do with the franchise. You mentioned Granblue and I feel that's a good example of a franchise that has expanded outside of its original form. It used to just be that one game, but now it has a fighting game that people love and from what I understand they seek to go further with that idea and do more games and other media, meaning that even if Granblue Fantasy were to just have the plug pulled right now it would have a legacy that people can still cling to. Other mobile games can expand in a similar way, if they have the demand and the company behind them wants to do it, then they can grow outside of that one game and become a more encompassing franchise that won't fade into the aether if the phone game dies.

Granted, I do understand how much easier it was for Granblue to do it since it has a longer history and much larger success behind it, but it does show what can happen if you have the right push behind it.

 

[Double K]

I can understand that concern and it's honestly one I share as well, but I will say it also depends on what they want to do with the franchise. You mentioned Granblue and I feel that's a good example of a franchise that has expanded outside of its original form. It used to just be that one game, but now it has a fighting game that people love and from what I understand they seek to go further with that idea and do more games and other media, meaning that even if Granblue Fantasy were to just have the plug pulled right now it would have a legacy that people can still cling to. Other mobile games can expand in a similar way, if they have the demand and the company behind them wants to do it, then they can grow outside of that one game and become a more encompassing franchise that won't fade into the aether if the phone game dies.

Granted, I do understand how much easier it was for Granblue to do it since it has a longer history and much larger success behind it, but it does show what can happen if you have the right push behind it.

It's also worth noting that Games as a Service products actually do have a crazy longevity to them. Look at FFXI, which still has active servers, and gets patches on a stable, healthy pace

 

[lordvaati]

This is gonna be an extremely hot take


But despite being a dirty phone game player, I can't really say I'd be down for wanting a character like that in Smash.



Not because "Phone bad" or any dumb reason like that, it's more that...


If I want to say, play a game Terry's in, I can do that via simply buying a game of his on "an" E-shop, picking up the newest King of Fighters, find a working NEO-GEO and pay through the nose for it, or emulate it like a dirty cheater.

If I want to play a Banjo game, same applies there.


Same applies for pretty much anyone on the roster, really.


Now let's take Euden from Dragalia Lost. In ten or so years, when Dragalia Lost's servers are down... there's frankly going to be no way to play that game, period. Games like this, once they're gone, they're gone for good. Once the servers die, outside of fan re-creations, they're gone forever.


It's a bit of an odd hot take, but that's kinda my gripe with phone game reps. Unless they have another series to fall back on, like Saber from Fate, phone games are temporary, unlike how, effectively timeless literally everyone else in the roster is.

That isn't just a problem with Mobile Games either-MMOs and MOBAs have a much similar problem too, as do some arena shooters like those in the Battle Royale genre or Overwatch.

I guess I could see how a mobile only game or character could be an issue when you consider servers shutting down. But I don't think a mobile game or mobile appearance from a character should necessarily not count.

*looks at Dixie Kong in Mario kart tour*

As a minor note IIRC Pauline debuted on Mario Kart Tour and apparently another version of Dry Bowser, whereas in MK8D we got BotW Link and....yeah.
If those servers go down, that is a doozy.

 

[Cosmic77]

Why can't they make DLC costumes for fighters who aren't Miis!?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Why can't they make DLC costumes for fighters who aren't Miis!?

View attachment 276906

Screw it, alternate costume thread, who do you want to see?

The most obvious ones to me are various Ganondorf incarnations and Samus suits...


Though I'd put decent money down for a Brawl or Zero Mission-style Ridley.

Spoiler

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why can't they make DLC costumes for fighters who aren't Miis!?

View attachment 276906

If this isn't rhetorical, it's because of two reasons; characters are preset with 8 alts as a design philosophy. I agree it's silly to worry about that, as long as they have 8 costumes, the minimum needed.

The second is that Mii costumes are also made for exactly 3 character models over and over again. So it's probably because they can get it done more efficiently at this point. I wouldn't necessarily say it's easier, but that could be why. It's also a fairly specific mechanic to them, so it makes sense why it's going to be a thing for a while.

I don't really agree with these reasons as they shouldn't outright matter either.

Plus, there's tons of great costumes. I'd love the TP outfit on Ganondorf. Link could have his better classic tunics, not the awkward attempt at them that doesn't look right. Toon Link is missing the Conductor outfit and his outset island outfit. If Ms. Pac-Man isn't going to be an Echo, that's a good alt for Pac-Man to reference. Since they pretty much are palette swaps. I always felt that you don't need to get rid of alt references either unless they actually would make it hard to tell the characters apart. The Chrom outfit that was removed? You can put it back in. It doesn't clash. The Dark Samus alt on the other hand might be a bit more difficult to tell 'em apart in comparison. And only maybe.

 

[Koopaul]

Huh? Did Shenmue 3 do that well or something?

Let me explain. I believe that Western 3rd parties are the least likely. In my book, they're always going to be beaten by Japanese 3rd parties. With a few exceptions: Fortnite, Minecraft, and Overwatch. Those games are so huge I feel like they beat even some Japanese games. Crash just had a revival and is a historical gaming character. So I have him high up there too. I'm sure someone will say: "So is Doom! It just had a revival and it's historical!" Yes but it's sooooo niche in Japan. Crash is actually well liked in Japan. And that's why Rayman and others are so low on my list. They do beat Reimu who has the same problem but in the West. Possibly worse. She's more niche here than Doom and Rayman are in Japan. Ans Bubble Bobble is down there too. The only thing they got going for them is being a historical gaming figure and from Taito who hasn't had any content in Smash yet. But that's it. I put Bub and Bob low because I don't see them as big exciting characters that Nintendo would want to put in a DLC package.

 

[Will]

Let me explain. I believe that Western 3rd parties are the least likely. In my book, they're always going to be beaten by Japanese 3rd parties. With a few exceptions: Fortnite, Minecraft, and Overwatch. Those games are so huge I feel like they beat even some Japanese games. Crash just had a revival and is a historical gaming character. So I have him high up there too. I'm sure someone will say: "So is Doom! It just had a revival and it's historical!" Yes but it's sooooo niche in Japan. Crash is actually well liked in Japan. And that's why Rayman and others are so low on my list. They do beat Reimu who has the same problem but in the West. Possibly worse. She's more niche here than Doom and Rayman are in Japan. Ans Bubble Bobble is down there too. The only thing they got going for them is being a historical gaming figure and from Taito who hasn't had any content in Smash yet. But that's it. I put Bub and Bob low because I don't see them as big exciting characters that Nintendo would want to put in a DLC package.

I'm more just surprised the fact you chose Shenmue out of literally everything. Any SEGA property: Sakura Wars, Yakuza, Phantasy Star, you chose Shenmue. I don't know whether to be baffled or proud for such a brave choice.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm more just surprised the fact you chose Shenmue out of literally everything. Any SEGA property: Sakura Wars, Yakuza, Phantasy Star, you chose Shenmue. I don't know whether to be baffled or proud for such a brave choice.

I'm just more sad nobody cares about Shining Force ever.

...Though at least Shenmue gets more talk, so I'll give it that over the Shining series?

 

[cosmicB]

I was just stating a possibility, as I am a possibilities kind of guy. Still, intentional or not, I can see some people being upset at Sakurai, or by extension with some different reasons, Square-Enix and Nintendo.

Still, to you, Beth, you do have points. Sakurai may not be the one to say no, but more importantly, Geno and the one game he is from is not influential to the world of gaming for, well, reasons. That is another obstacle for him to overcome. Speaking of which, Sakurai may have rules that he did not say, not including the fan rules, of course. I am sure he would not say no to Geno, but considering the latter is from a spinoff, I wonder if Sakurai realized that Geno is not that big of a character and not much of an important one, even though he does like him? Whatever the case, I do see some Geno fans rate Geno's chances higher than maybe Sakurai wants him in.

Either way, yes, he is not really the deciding factor here.

If people are genuinely so privileged that they would attack Sakurai over a character they like not getting into a children's crossover fighting game that's already packed with a ludicrous amount of content, then I hope they get some perspective some day. That goes for literally every character that does or doesn't get in, not just Geno.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I have absolutely no idea how Yakuza in Smash would work, but the idea of Kiryu being in Smash seems ****ing hilarious.

Besides picking up random household items and beating the **** out of you with it, Kiryu has a stance changing system called fighting styles.

- Brawler, the default style where he beats up other dudes in a street fighting way. It's okay in nearly every situation and is the all-rounder style.
- Rush, the speedy style where Kiryu turns into little mac (the one in the original games and not Smash) and starts focusing on speed and mobility instead of power. He can dish out quick hits and dodge fast.
- Beast, the heavy hitting power style that trades speed for raw power. It's a style that is much more sluggish but much more hard hitting, Kiryu also has some super armor on his moves and he can tank some hits and hit back.
- Dragon, the ultimate style and the one that made Kiryu a legend in the street. Fast as hell, hard hitting, incredible counters, it almost makes Brawler obsolete.

Besides styles there is the heat system which could be implemented as a mechanic as well. Heat is a meter where if certain levels of it are filled, Kiryu can pull of different hard hitting super moves that are destructive, and sometimes wacky.

 

[SKX31]

Why can't they make DLC costumes for fighters who aren't Miis!?

View attachment 276906

Yo,

I wouldn't mind if Nintendo went full Valve and released DLC costumes / hats for everything, including ATs:

Source

Let me explain. I believe that Western 3rd parties are the least likely. In my book, they're alwayd going to be beaten by Japanese 3rd parties. With a few exceptions: Fortnite, Minecraft, and Overwatch. Those games are so huge I feel like they beat even some Japanese games. Crash just had a revival and is a historical gaming character. I'm sure someone will say: "So is Doom! It just had a revival and it's historical!" Yes but it's sooooo niche in Japan. And that's why Rayman and others are so low on my list. They do beat Reimu who has the same problem but in the West. Possibly worse. She's more niche here than Doom and Rayman are in Japan. An Bubble Bobble is down there too. The only thing they got going for them is being a historical gaming figure and from Taito who hasn't had any content in Smash yet. But that's it. I put Bub and Bob low because I don't see them as big exciting characters that Nintendo would want to put in a DLC package.

While I don't believe that Japan's going to be almost all-important in DLC selections, I should point out that Fortnite's beat in Japan... by Knives Out. A mobile / Switch / PS4 Fortnite developed by NetEase*. The most concrete number I could find is that Switch version got 300K downloads in just two days on just the Japanese eShop, and the mobile original claims a 30 million download count in Japan. With the two versions having crossplay integration.

Again, I say not overwhelming, but it's still important to note. Sure, the fact that Knives Out is massive there could be counted as a positive for Fortnite (Sakurai has probably heard of the genre and thus looked a little into it)... but one could also argue its a positive for PUBG. One could also argue that Knives Out is a negative for both games since neither PUBG nor Fortnite would be known or perhaps welcomed by large segments of the Japanese crowd.

*(Chinese megacorp, #2 behind Tencent. Blizzard's and Minecraft's Chinese partner, with its Chinese nickname being "The Pig Factory". The nickname comes not just from NetEase also churning out games, but also since its founder is heavily involved with the pork industry. Nintendo's Chinese nickname is "Old Nin" used often in an endearing manner.)

 

[cosmicB]

B&K was an improvement on DK64 first. The only reason we had B&K was because Rareware made a game with similar mechanics to get the formula down pretty well and then majorly improved it. That's a huge deal in why it worked. B&K also isn't really a series that spawned more than one major series either, so, it's just an N64 impact alone. A notable impact, but it's not something that spanned multiple generations.

SMRPG's impact created two major sub-series(Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi), who did their own thing while clearly using the formula, and heavily improving on it. And only one of them recently died due to AlphaDream dying, not because of some popularity issues. Paper Mario is still going super strong to this day because of SMRPG's major impact. Not being in Europe has zero effect on the fact that it still made a massive impact in creating new games. That spanned multiple generations. This matters too.

SMRPG's impact to gaming overall is simply bigger than B&K's. It'd help if the games after the 64 ones were actually worth noting on their own. One racing game spin-off, if I remember right another simple platformer on the Gameboy Advance or DS or something, and then Nuts & Boltz. The last one did pretty badly impact-wise, way worse than the Paper Mario series still does(as much hate as Sticker Star gets, it's still an extremely popular and well-selling game overall).

So yes, I'd say that's the world we live in. SMRPG had a bigger impact overall than B&K, who had a one-generation impact and that was it. It'd be awesome if it had more of an impact, but it simply didn't.

Chrono Trigger had barely much of an impact, enough to get 3 games and didn't do much. I wouldn't even put it in the ballpark of Final Fantasy, Mana, or Dragon Quest, which are severely more influential series. What things did Chrono Trigger spawn? Any actual games it helped create? Maybe? Some Action RPG's, possibly? If I'm remembering it wrong, then it'd be around SMRPG's impact level, cause the series was pretty quickly forgotten about for a long time. People asked for a remake and release, but not exactly a continuation of the series. The reason SMRPG isn't garnered for a continuation, is because it already continued with Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi, so there was no need. People wanted a remake at most, and rarely did some ask for a sequel. It's actually not a common request.

We don't quantify influence by focusing on spiritual precursors. Following this line of logic, Paper Mario is more likely than Geno. Banjo doesn't have that because the spiritual successor didn't rise above the precursor like Paper Mario did relative to SMRPG.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We don't quantify influence by focusing on spiritual precursors. Following this line of logic, Paper Mario is more likely than Geno.

...Why are you dredging old conversations that were over with over 5 hours ago?

Please don't do that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why can't they make DLC costumes for fighters who aren't Miis!?

View attachment 276906

I object to this specific example because I've seen enough people get horny for Ultimate!Zelda's foot and I don't trust those perverts.


Then again I'd campaign for SotN Richter because Richter becomes like 30 times hotter with long hair

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I'm more just surprised the fact you chose Shenmue out of literally everything. Any SEGA property: Sakura Wars, Yakuza, Phantasy Star, you chose Shenmue. I don't know whether to be baffled or proud for such a brave choice.

Honestly Yu Suzuki deserves any of his work to be in smash

Dude has done alot for video games
Most people sadly are unaware of this dudes impact on gaming.

He literally got sega to buy a 2 million dollar texture mapping chip from the US air force, reduced its size to be available to consumers for 50$, and made the first ever gaming texture map unit ever.

Space Harrier, Outrun, Shenmue, Fantasy Zone etc all should atleast some form of rep in smash. Atleast Virtua Fighter got an assist trophy and bayo references After Burner and Akira's famous line. Getting Mitsuyoshi to do F-Zero arrangement was probabaly a reference to Daytona USA as well but its such a small thing for a dude that probably made some of the most perfect influential arcade games of all time.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If it helps, Gwen, I reported all those extra posts, heh. I don't know if you did too. Thankfully the site stopped borking long enough for it.

Oy, what a terrible day. D:

Anyway, more than extra costumes, I'd honestly love some unique echoes meant to emulate old movesets. I'm not sure if Echo is applicable either way, but one I'd love is Black Shadow using Ganondorf's TP moveset. This fits his dark magic factor well, and he's also a very strong built character who is more physical than usual. I also feel this fits better than Captain Falcon echo-wise due to both the dark magic and Ganondorf literally representing the spirit. Blood Falcon was his helper, fittingly. Though I expected the Blood Falcon helper regardless of who represented the Black Shadow spirit. Before I knew of the spirit, I always felt Black Shadow's physique heavily matched TP Ganondorf's too. So it felt like the perfect fit to me.

Otherwise, you have TP/OOT Link, Melee Mario(could be done by using an old artstyle or the earlier Metal Mario design, who has a hardline color instead of shades like the Metal Box gives. Not that great, but I'd love to see him as a character proper again after Smash 64. He also is actually different personality-wise now in Mario Kart, being practically a different person), Pit(he changed a lot of abilities into 4 from Brawl, and that's not just Gliding capability, which should be there. Though I'd have loved Dark Pit to have his Brawl moveset, but that didn't happen), Smash 64 DK(he has a lot of different moves. Wouldn't work for Giant DK since he can't really be told apart beyond size. He doesn't have the unique coloring like Metal Mario legitimately does, and he barely has enough to be worth considering for an Echo, imo), Melee Roy(due to a lot of animation differences and new hitboxes. Lucina definitely does not emulate this. Though maybe Chrom comes fairly close beyond the Up B? But then again, no sweetspot, so still very different), and Melee/Brawl Bowser(who was playable for a short time with the Giga Bowser Final Smash in 4. I don't know if Giga Bowser, the boss, still emulates Bowser's older playstyle, though). I can't think of other good examples of old playstyles that changed massively over time though. Luigi maybe, but he feels only slightly different once Melee hit. Pikachu lost his sweet up air for a while after 64, but I don't think it played all that differently?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Besides picking up random household items and beating the **** out of you with it, Kiryu has a stance changing system called fighting styles.

- Brawler, the default style where he beats up other dudes in a street fighting way. It's okay in nearly every situation and is the all-rounder style.
- Rush, the speedy style where Kiryu turns into little mac (the one in the original games and not Smash) and starts focusing on speed and mobility instead of power. He can dish out quick hits and dodge fast.
- Beast, the heavy hitting power style that trades speed for raw power. It's a style that is much more sluggish but much more hard hitting, Kiryu also has some super armor on his moves and he can tank some hits and hit back.
- Dragon, the ultimate style and the one that made Kiryu a legend in the street. Fast as hell, hard hitting, incredible counters, it almost makes Brawler obsolete.

Besides styles there is the heat system which could be implemented as a mechanic as well. Heat is a meter where if certain levels of it are filled, Kiryu can pull of different hard hitting super moves that are destructive, and sometimes wacky.

I don't think a stance changing system would work in Super Smash Bros because you'd have to make 4 separate attacks for each fighting style.

One of these two things would probably happen.
1. Kiryu only uses the Dragon Style for his moveset.
2. Kiryu uses the other three styles but in context of what he's doing like his Neutral attacks use the Rush style, special attacks use the Brawler style and picking up items uses the beast style. However with the Beast style, he won't just throw items like Crates, Barrels and capsules away like other characters. He would use them to bash opponents until they break.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Since Min Min, Spring Stadium and all the ARMS music has been out for a while, let me ask two questions.

Of the two ARMS remixes, which one is your favorite and why?

Of the non-remixed ARMS music, which one is your favorite and why?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Both of y'all made lists consistin' of 20 characters, and not one of those slots went to Phoenix Wright. You make me sick.

DarthEnder gets a pass for includin' Kiryu, though.

Wright was, like, 22nd.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Since Min Min, Spring Stadium and all the ARMS music has been out for a while, let me ask two questions.

Of the two ARMS remixes, which one is your favorite and why?

Of the non-remixed ARMS music, which one is your favorite and why?

Can only answer one question because Via Dolce is all my ears accept now.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I don't think a stance changing system would work in Super Smash Bros because you'd have to make 4 separate attacks for each fighting style.

One of these two things would probably happen.
1. Kiryu only uses the Dragon Style for his moveset.
2. Kiryu uses the other three styles but in context of what he's doing like his Neutral attacks use the Rush style, special attacks use the Brawler style and picking up items uses the beast style. However with the Beast style, he won't just throw items like Crates, Barrels and capsules away like other characters. He would use them to bash opponents until they break.

I thought about them incorporating the styles in context of what Kiryu is doing in Smash too, but I figured describing what each style does would explain better how much Kiryu could bring to the table. I still think a stance changing character like Kiryu could and should happen in Smash someday, it's an archetype that would bring a lot to Smash, even if it might require more development time than usual.

With that said I think Heat has the best possibility of being incorporated in Smash, while styles are not guaranteed, Heat definitely is.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So, I got an interesting question.

It's pretty much a given that people think "fourth party" characters are out, but... what if it was possible to get one?

Before you call me crazy, I should probably remind you that flipping James Bond was considered for Melee due to GoldenEye 007.

So what if the whole "no fourth party" rule actually has a little bit of a loophole? As in, what if a series of games games with a 4th-party origin has managed to stand on its own to the point where it's considered its own thing separate from its origin?

The Witcher series and The Wolf Among Us are perfect examples of what kind of game I'm trying to refer to. Not saying I want characters from those games, just that they're good examples. GoldenEye 007 also qualifies since Sakurai confirmed that Bond was considered, likely due to the game's multiplayer allowing it to stand out from its movie inspiration.

Of course, the vast majority of 4th-party games are derivative of the source material to the point of being an extension of them, but I'm referring to the exceptions, not the norm.

So with that in mind, are the video games with 4th-party origins that have actually managed to stand on their own considered games or non-games?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

If it helps, Gwen, I reported all those extra posts, heh. I don't know if you did too. Thankfully the site stopped borking long enough for it.

Oy, what a terrible day. D:

Anyway, more than extra costumes, I'd honestly love some unique echoes meant to emulate old movesets. I'm not sure if Echo is applicable either way, but one I'd love is Black Shadow using Ganondorf's TP moveset. This fits his dark magic factor well, and he's also a very strong built character who is more physical than usual. I also feel this fits better than Captain Falcon echo-wise due to both the dark magic and Ganondorf literally representing the spirit. Blood Falcon was his helper, fittingly. Though I expected the Blood Falcon helper regardless of who represented the Black Shadow spirit. Before I knew of the spirit, I always felt Black Shadow's physique heavily matched TP Ganondorf's too. So it felt like the perfect fit to me.

Otherwise, you have TP/OOT Link, Melee Mario(could be done by using an old artstyle or the earlier Metal Mario design, who has a hardline color instead of shades like the Metal Box gives. Not that great, but I'd love to see him as a character proper again after Smash 64. He also is actually different personality-wise now in Mario Kart, being practically a different person), Pit(he changed a lot of abilities into 4 from Brawl, and that's not just Gliding capability, which should be there. Though I'd have loved Dark Pit to have his Brawl moveset, but that didn't happen), Smash 64 DK(he has a lot of different moves. Wouldn't work for Giant DK since he can't really be told apart beyond size. He doesn't have the unique coloring like Metal Mario legitimately does, and he barely has enough to be worth considering for an Echo, imo), Melee Roy(due to a lot of animation differences and new hitboxes. Lucina definitely does not emulate this. Though maybe Chrom comes fairly close beyond the Up B? But then again, no sweetspot, so still very different), and Melee/Brawl Bowser(who was playable for a short time with the Giga Bowser Final Smash in 4. I don't know if Giga Bowser, the boss, still emulates Bowser's older playstyle, though). I can't think of other good examples of old playstyles that changed massively over time though. Luigi maybe, but he feels only slightly different once Melee hit. Pikachu lost his sweet up air for a while after 64, but I don't think it played all that differently?

In the same vein, while Peach didn’t change her playstyle to drastically, her Melee incarnation did have some different moves that would’ve fit Daisy perfectly. Explosive Peach Bomber, Double Kick Up Air, Headbutt Up Tilt and of course the old grab game.

EDIT

So, I got an interesting question.

It's pretty much a given that people think "fourth party" characters are out, but... what if it was possible to get one?

Before you call me crazy, I should probably remind you that flipping James Bond was considered for Melee due to GoldenEye 007.

So what if the whole "no fourth party" rule actually has a little bit of a loophole? As in, what if a series of games games with a 4th-party origin has managed to stand on its own to the point where it's considered its own thing separate from its origin?

The Witcher series and The Wolf Among Us are perfect examples of what kind of game I'm trying to refer to. Not saying I want characters from those games, just that they're good examples. GoldenEye 007 also qualifies since Sakurai confirmed that Bond was considered, likely due to the game's multiplayer allowing it to stand out from its movie inspiration.

Of course, the vast majority of 4th-party games are derivative of the source material to the point of being an extension of them, but I'm referring to the exceptions, not the norm.

So with that in mind, are the video games with 4th-party origins that have actually managed to stand on their own considered games or non-games?

Technically, Dracula is fourth party in the sense you‘ve described in your The Witcher example. Dr. Kawashima is some funky form of real too and maybe Codename Steam has representation in Smash.

Some of my favorite fourth party loopholes include Mii Costumes for the outfits Donald and Goofy wear in Kingdom Hearts. Call them “Court Magician” and “Court Knight” like you’re a bootleg costume shop and voila, you have outfits for some of the most iconic fourth parties around, while all of the content is still gaming only.
Another loophole I really want relating to Disney is The Moon theme from the Ducktales game. Absolutely iconic, gaming-exclusive until the reboot of Ducktales used it and a fitting rep for one of the better licensed games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

well thats a double post

Well, here's a reply done only for the sake of not making your next one a triple post

 

[Deleted member]

Since Min Min, Spring Stadium and all the ARMS music has been out for a while, let me ask two questions.

Of the two ARMS remixes, which one is your favorite and why?

Of the non-remixed ARMS music, which one is your favorite and why?

DNA Lab is okay, the rest aren't that good.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Well, here's a reply done only for the sake of not making your next one a triple post

Thanks, but I already figured out the edit button after like six years

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't think a stance changing system would work in Super Smash Bros because you'd have to make 4 separate attacks for each fighting style.

One of these two things would probably happen.
1. Kiryu only uses the Dragon Style for his moveset.
2. Kiryu uses the other three styles but in context of what he's doing like his Neutral attacks use the Rush style, special attacks use the Brawler style and picking up items uses the beast style. However with the Beast style, he won't just throw items like Crates, Barrels and capsules away like other characters. He would use them to bash opponents until they break.

On one hand, it would indeed be a lot of work and styles are a more recent addition to the series. On the other hand, the suggestion of pressure senstive inputs determining your moves and a command menu would have been dismissed for similar reasons yet Ryu and Hero brought those in Smash

 

[Dinoman96]

I feel like if they really were to add one non-video game character, James Bond should be the only one considered.

He's basically the 4th party equivalent of Banjo.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I feel like if they really were to add one non-video game character, James Bond should be the only one considered.

He's basically the 4th party equivalent of Banjo.

No way Jose. If we're gonna include one character that didn't originate from video games and not have it be Goku then what's the point?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So, I got an interesting question.

It's pretty much a given that people think "fourth party" characters are out, but... what if it was possible to get one?

Before you call me crazy, I should probably remind you that flipping James Bond was considered for Melee due to GoldenEye 007.

So what if the whole "no fourth party" rule actually has a little bit of a loophole? As in, what if a series of games games with a 4th-party origin has managed to stand on its own to the point where it's considered its own thing separate from its origin?

The Witcher series and The Wolf Among Us are perfect examples of what kind of game I'm trying to refer to. Not saying I want characters from those games, just that they're good examples. GoldenEye 007 also qualifies since Sakurai confirmed that Bond was considered, likely due to the game's multiplayer allowing it to stand out from its movie inspiration.

Of course, the vast majority of 4th-party games are derivative of the source material to the point of being an extension of them, but I'm referring to the exceptions, not the norm.

So with that in mind, are the video games with 4th-party origins that have actually managed to stand on their own considered games or non-games?

So what you're saying is "4th party" characters who have made a considerable impact in gaming?

I would say Spongebob but he hasn't really made much of an impact in gaming as much as games like Goldeneye 007, The Witcher and a plethora of great DragonBall Z games. He has Battle for Bikini Bottom to his name but I don't think that it's big enough to compare.

But boy would he have a wacky moveset. It's kind of a shame really.

James Bond would be cool but I'm personally rooting for his spiritual successor to get into Smash Bros instead who is in fact a video game character and will continue to do so no matter how many odds are stacked against him.

 

[Dinoman96]

No way Jose. If we're gonna include one character that didn't originate from video games and not have it be Goku then what's the point?

Because James Bond is like the only one that actually makes sense from a celebration of Nintendo angle due to Goldeneye 007 being a legendary and prestiged Nintendo published title for the N64. Just like how Banjo made more sense than Steve or Master Chief due to his prior history as a Nintendo mascot.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I feel like if they really were to add one non-video game character, James Bond should be the only one considered.

He's basically the 4th party equivalent of Banjo.

Only with a presence on the Nintendo 64?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Since Min Min, Spring Stadium and all the ARMS music has been out for a while, let me ask two questions.

Of the two ARMS remixes, which one is your favorite and why?

It's a tough one, but I'd say ARMS Grand Prix. The Sky Arena leitmotif in particular is killer.

Of the non-remixed ARMS music, which one is your favorite and why?

C'MON MAN I CAN'T CHOOSE JUST ONE! Letsee uhhhhh... DNA Lab, Ninja College, Ribbon Ring, Cinema Deux, and Sky Arena are all phenomenal

 

[osby]

Only with a presence on the Nintendo 64?

You'd be surprised how many people think that SNES-Gamecube era is the only period of Nintendo that matters.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Because James Bond is like the only one that actually makes sense from a celebration of Nintendo angle due to Goldeneye 007 being a legendary and prestiged Nintendo published title for the N64. Just like how Banjo made more sense than Steve or Master Chief due to his prior history as a Nintendo mascot.

Yeah, with only one game that mattered. Meanwhile DBZ has released a butt ton of games that are still memorable to this day. Budokai Tenkaichi 3, Attack of the Saiyans, Fighterz etc. And in regards to Fighterz it's still on EVO years after it's release and has essentially replaced MvC's spot.

DBZ has been pumping out games since the 80s and has achieved a total sales with 55 million. Goldeneye only had one good game back in the N64, DBZ on the other hand is eternal and will continue to get incredible games even decades from now.

 

[Dinoman96]

All I'm saying is that Goldeneye was still a big part of Nintendo's history, being a critically acclaimed, best selling first party published game on N64. To me, that makes Bond feel much more appropriate for a game that's primarily about celebrating Nintendo's history than someone like Goku who, despite having a bunch of games, doesn't really have that same deep connection/history like James Bond. IIRC no Dragon Ball game has even been published by Nintendo.

I mean we're never getting a non-video game character in Smash so this is all moot, but Bond is the only one I'd be willing to accept.

Yeah, with only one game that mattered. Meanwhile DBZ has released a butt ton of games that are still memorable to this day. Budokai Tenkaichi 3, Attack of the Saiyans, Fighterz etc. And in regards to Fighterz it's still on EVO years after it's release and has essentially replaced MvC's spot.

DBZ has been pumping out games since the 80s and has achieved a total sales with 55 million. Goldeneye only had one good game back in the N64, DBZ on the other hand is eternal and will continue to get incredible games even decades from now.

I hope you realize you could literally say the same thing about Banjo vs. Steve/Master Chief lmao