Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Dinoman96]

The best bet for Astral Chain, and Ring Fit Adventure for that matter, is for Nintendo to greenlight a Fighters Pass 3.

They're both IPs that obviously missed the boat for when FP2 was decided, considering at that the time of its conception, they were still both unproven. If FP2 really is it for this game, then they're just gonna have to wait until the next Smash Bros.

 

[Jomosensual]

Only 4th party characters I'd be alright with being playable:

• Scrooge McDuck (since DuckTales is an NES classic)
• Scott Pilgrim (he just fits in so well especially with the beat 'em up game)
• Lee or Clementine from Telltale's TWD game

I'd also be open to some 4th party Mii Costumes. Imagine how cool it'd be if we got costumes of Captain America (Brawler), Thor (Swordsfighter with sword = Mjolnir), and Iron Man (Gunner).

And yes I know I'm late to the 4th party talk, I was gonna post this but then stuff at work came up.

Are Lee and Clem 4th party? Walking Dead is for sure but Lee and Clem are originally from the game series.

 

[Sari]

Are Lee and Clem 4th party? Walking Dead is for sure but Lee and Clem are originally from the game series.

The games take place in the same universe as the comics so you could argue that they're in a sort of grey area between 3rd and 4th party.

 

[slrigeigdew]

• Lee or Clementine from Telltale's TWD game

I'd want them in if only to be a perfect parallel to Tekken's TWD Rep (Negan) the same way PSABR MGS Rep (Raiden) parallels Smash (Snake).

 

[GoodGrief741]

So, I got an interesting question.

It's pretty much a given that people think "fourth party" characters are out, but... what if it was possible to get one?

Before you call me crazy, I should probably remind you that flipping James Bond was considered for Melee due to GoldenEye 007.

So what if the whole "no fourth party" rule actually has a little bit of a loophole? As in, what if a series of games games with a 4th-party origin has managed to stand on its own to the point where it's considered its own thing separate from its origin?

The Witcher series and The Wolf Among Us are perfect examples of what kind of game I'm trying to refer to. Not saying I want characters from those games, just that they're good examples. GoldenEye 007 also qualifies since Sakurai confirmed that Bond was considered, likely due to the game's multiplayer allowing it to stand out from its movie inspiration.

Of course, the vast majority of 4th-party games are derivative of the source material to the point of being an extension of them, but I'm referring to the exceptions, not the norm.

So with that in mind, are the video games with 4th-party origins that have actually managed to stand on their own considered games or non-games?

Megami Tensei started out as a series of books, surprisingly enough. So I think as long as the IP is best known for videogames, then they qualify for Smash. Which is why I think Geralt could actually be in Smash. As could (with lower odds) stuff like Parasite Eve.

 

[SharkLord]

Megami Tensei started out as a series of books, surprisingly enough. So I think as long as the IP is best known for videogames, then they qualify for Smash. Which is why I think Geralt could actually be in Smash. As could (with lower odds) stuff like Parasite Eve.

Really now? That's news to me, though it's a bit thinner of a connection than most suggestions; Books>SMT Game>Persona>Persona 5. Still, that's interesting to note.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I hope that if we get another Nintendo character, it is from a new IP that doesn’t have playable representation in Smash. I always said that I find it little boring to include DLC fighters from already represented universes like TLOZ, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Super Mario and the others.

And I think that the best candidate are the Chorus Kids, Rhythm Heaven is very popular en Japan (I think that it isn’t very big in the west but Smash can give them a good boost), plus we don’t have fighters from rhythm games and Sakurai expresed that he does want to include new ways of fighting with FP2, so I think it may be a good opportunity to finally include them.

 

[osby]

Megami Tensei started out as a series of books, surprisingly enough. So I think as long as the IP is best known for videogames, then they qualify for Smash. Which is why I think Geralt could actually be in Smash. As could (with lower odds) stuff like Parasite Eve.

To be fair, Joker's FP only contains game-originated content. Megami Tensei don't have much content from the books aside from the characters in the oldest games and some demons.

 

[Koopaul]

So here are the following things that I don't think we'll be getting as DLC:

1. Another SNK character. It seems to me that Terry is not only the Fatal Fury rep but SNK as a whole. Looking at the music selection and Spirits, it looks like they wanted to cover a broad spectrum of SNK IP just with Terry.

2. Characters whose series revolve around real world events and people. Wolfenstein and Assassin's Creed are pretty much this. Especially Wolfenstein which heavily features an undesirable group.

3. Characters who are DLC Mii costumes. While I don't think base game Mii costumes deconfirm, I do think they deconfirm if they were DLC. Especially 3rd parties. Nintendo goes through the process of getting the rights to use these characters, and if they end up being Mii costumes then they were always meant to be Mii costumes.

4. Characters from series that got post-game Spirits. It makes little sense to release special event Spirits for a certain series if characters from said series are being considered or worked on.

5. Mortal Kombat characters. Yeah I feel bad singling this one out. Unlike Doom, Mortal Kombat's most recent game wasn't released in Japan. Doom proves you can release an ultra gory game over there but they didn't even bother with Mortal Kombat. Not because they can't, but because they knew it wasn't worth it.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Where talking about books becoming video games now?

How about we get REAL representation in Smash?

 

[Cosmic77]

I hope that if we get another Nintendo character, it is from a new IP that doesn’t have playable representation in Smash. I always said that I find it little boring to include DLC fighters from already represented universes like TLOZ, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Super Mario and the others.

And I think that the best candidate are the Chorus Kids, Rhythm Heaven is very popular en Japan (I think that it isn’t very big in the west but Smash can give them a good boost), plus we don’t have fighters from rhythm games and Sakurai expresed that he does want to include new ways of fighting with FP2, so I think it may be a good opportunity to finally include them.

Depends on the franchise. If we're talking about a really niche franchise that isn't highly requested and hasn't done much in recent years, then I'd much rather get another character from a series already repped.

So here are the following things that I don't think we'll be getting as DLC:

4. Characters from series that got post-game Spirits. It makes little sense to release special event Spirits for a certain series if characters from said series are being considered or worked on.

I could see them doing it to commemorate the launch of a new game. If they plan on using most of those Spirits in the Spirit Board then it isn't necessarily wasted time.

 

[Koopaul]

I could see them doing it to commemorate the launch of a new game. If they plan on using most of those Spirits in the Spirit Board then it isn't necessarily wasted time.

I figure they'd just save those Spirits for the Challenger Pack. Pokémon might be an exception since it's releasing a whole new DLC campaign. But 3rd parties? Absolutely not. If we got 3rd party Spirits post-game then I hold the same stance as I do with Mii costumes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If we're doing literature reps then I want some Bram Stoker rep

 

[SneakyLink]

Literature reps?

Give me Captain Ahab please!

 

[Sari]

Where talking about books becoming video games now?

How about we get REAL representation in Smash?

Can't wait to grab a Smash Ball as Nimdok and send enemies to be tortured by AM for all of eternity.

 

[Cosmic77]

I figure they'd just save those Spirits for the Challenger Pack. Pokémon might be an exception since it's releasing a whole new DLC campaign. But 3rd parties? Absolutely not. If we got 3rd party Spirits post-game then I hold the same stance as I do with Mii costumes.

Third-parties are a little different because it takes more effort to get them, and it's not necessarily odd for Sakurai to neglect promoting a new third-party release even for franchises already in Smash. You could leave them out and no one would suspect a thing.

First-parties should be easy to work around though, and depending on how many we get, I could definitely see why Sakurai might want to add a few. It might become way too obvious if he avoided one or two games while all the others got Spirits.

 

[SKX31]

So here are the following things that I don't think we'll be getting as DLC:

2. Characters whose series revolve around real world events and people. Wolfenstein and Assassin's Creed are pretty much this. Especially Wolfenstein which heavily features an undesirable group.

On one hand, Altair's already in as a Mii Costume...

On the other, yeah, generally agreed. My big worry about a CoD / Battlefield and a Counter Strike character is that their weapons are often real weaponry. And CS:GO has the added worry of a lot of their stages being based around real world places. Cache and Nuke - long time Counter Strike maps - have potential double whammies.

If we're doing literature reps then I want some Bram Stoker rep

I'd so be down for a Dracula vs. Dracula matchup, even if it's only a boss fight.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Characters whose series revolve around real world events and people. Wolfenstein and Assassin's Creed are pretty much this. Especially Wolfenstein which heavily features an undesirable group.

Metal Gear says hi.

 

[DarthEnderX]

As in, what if a series of games games with a 4th-party origin has managed to stand on its own to the point where it's considered its own thing separate from its origin?

Irrelevant. Because it will never be considered its own separate thing in the only way that actually matters, legally.

Before you call me crazy, I should probably remind you that flipping James Bond was considered for Melee due to GoldenEye 007.

But he wasn't. And they've been clear since then what the rule is. So they've made their decision.

It's pretty much a given that people think "fourth party" characters are out, but... what if it was possible to get one?

Then Scrooge McDuck.

 

[ZelDan]

Metal Gear says hi.

WarioWare also says hi.

Corporate greed exists too afterall.

 

[Will]

WarioWare also says hi.

Corporate greed exists too afterall.

We just gonna forget is a real-life toy?

 

[Luigi580]

Then Scrooge McDuck.

Then they better get David Tennant to play him. I will be very disappointed otherwise.

 

[DarthEnderX]

For the record, "4th party" isn't a thing. The medium a character originates from has nothing to do with who owns the rights.

For the record, no ****. Nobody thinks otherwise. "4th party" is just easier to say than "3rd party property not originating from a video game".

Probably because one of them is simply an incorrect prefix for the same thing while the other is a made-up legal term that can potentially confuse people about how licensing for Smash works.

There's nothing legal about the term and nobody has ever claimed it was.

It's simple community shorthand that works as shorthand except for the "Genius at work" dorks who have to have a breakdown every time someone uses it.

I'm not word policing. I just thought those that were were being rather selective about what words to police.

Indeed. You don't see people going "wavedashing isn't a real word!"

 

[Idon]

I think what's more stupid than the term 4th party is the fact that people constantly need to bring up non-game characters to the point they have to make up an entirely made up shorthand for it when non-game characters never making it into smash is the only universal constant we have regarding smash exclusions.

 

[N3ON]

Had Codename STEAM become a thing, I can only imagine that Abraham Lincoln would be in Smash by now, in some form.

Other than as a Mii.

And speaking of Abraham Lincoln, happy Canada Day!

 

[Will]

I think what's more stupid than the term 4th party is the fact that people constantly need to bring up non-game characters to the point they have to make up an entirely made up shorthand for it when non-game characters never making it into smash is the only universal constant we have regarding smash exclusions.

There are people here who genuinely believe Goku has a shot. I wonder what their thought processes are. Maybe it's just because Sakurai's dev pics reference Dragon Ball with Hero?

 

[slrigeigdew]

There are people here who genuinely believe Goku has a shot. I wonder what their thought processes are. Maybe it's just because Sakurai's dev pics reference Dragon Ball with Hero?

He's a popular anime character that's been in many fighting games, some of which were on Nintendo consoles. Goku in Smash memes were a thing waaaay before Hero was in Smash.

 

[Cosmic77]

There are people here who genuinely believe Goku has a shot. I wonder what their thought processes are. Maybe it's just because Sakurai's dev pics reference Dragon Ball with Hero?

To be fair, this is the same community that thought two colored chairs were a hint.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

saw this on discord, can anyone back this up?:

Spoiler: images contain language

and has anyone heard of the "leaker" in the images in this tweet? linking instead of embedding due to the "leaker"'s questionable username: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1274105486258864131

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

To be fair, Joker's FP only contains game-originated content. Megami Tensei don't have much content from the books aside from the characters in the oldest games and some demons.

Then, to play Devil's Advocate, a Gerald Fighters Pass could just contain content from the games, which at this point differ from the books enough to have their own identity.

I don't really care for Geraldo Witcherman, but I think it's worth considering as of right now.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

saw this on discord, can anyone back this up?:

saw this on discord, can anyone back this up?:

and has anyone heard of the "leaker" in the images in this tweet? linking instead of embedding due to the "leaker"'s questionable username: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1274105486258864131

and has anyone heard of the "leaker" in the images in this tweet? linking instead of embedding due to the "leaker"'s questionable username: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1274105486258864131

Probably piggybacking on sources although I do think Steve has an very likely shot. Wouldn't be surprised if he's among the final five.

 

[lordvaati]

There are people here who genuinely believe Goku has a shot. I wonder what their thought processes are. Maybe it's just because Sakurai's dev pics reference Dragon Ball with Hero?

Sakurai accidentally kicked the hornet's hive again when he namedropped that Cap's VA was the same as Vegeta's.
It also didn't help that earlier in said presentation he went out to hide the name of the Manga he was referencing for Springman(Kinnikuman) either.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

saw this on discord, can anyone back this up?:

Spoiler: images contain language

and has anyone heard of the "leaker" in the images in this tweet? linking instead of embedding due to the "leaker"'s questionable username: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1274105486258864131

Something about the song feels...off. It doesn't feel like it'd fit into Smash Ultimate, if that makes any sense.

For reference:

Furthermore, without a link to a 4chan thread or this supposed placeholder logo, I'm hard pressed to believe this.

 

[N3ON]

saw this on discord, can anyone back this up?:

Spoiler: images contain language

and has anyone heard of the "leaker" in the images in this tweet? linking instead of embedding due to the "leaker"'s questionable username: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1274105486258864131

Let me get this straight - the proof this person can provide is an icon and a jingle?

Not exactly breaking new ground in what leakers have faked before.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

saw this on discord, can anyone back this up?:

Spoiler: images contain language

and has anyone heard of the "leaker" in the images in this tweet? linking instead of embedding due to the "leaker"'s questionable username: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1274105486258864131

The fact that the Galaga Medley was used to leak Belmont makes this seem hilariously memey. It's like "hey guys I put Ken on this so you know I'm legit"

 

[Will]

To be fair, this is the same community that thought two colored chairs were a hint.

And then they were talking about how it's real cause the direct from prior had ****ing barrels for K. Rool

 

[Faso115]

ah yes, another music leak. Totally real coincidence its the same song that leaked the belmonts.

Leaks don't do running gags for **** sake.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

ok but the tweet tho? has anyone seen that "name" before? it's not related to the minecraft thing.

 

[Will]

saw this on discord, can anyone back this up?:

Spoiler: images contain language

and has anyone heard of the "leaker" in the images in this tweet? linking instead of embedding due to the "leaker"'s questionable username: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1274105486258864131

Feels sus, why mention Galaga Medley specifically? It was literally the same as the Simon leak.

Remix victory theme is cool but I'm throwing this **** in the bin.

 

[SKX31]

There are people here who genuinely believe Goku has a shot. I wonder what their thought processes are. Maybe it's just because Sakurai's dev pics reference Dragon Ball with Hero?

As someone who knows such people:

Sakurai's words do not reach everyone simply put. And sure, there are trolls and jokesters - but there are also people who genuinely want Goku, Shrek or whoever else. 4th party character wants aren't that dissimilar to "ordinary" wants beyond the status as non-video game characters - they happen to be someone's favorite character or think they'd be "cool" or fit the game etc. Again, not knowing Sakurai said "No.".

4th party characters have also been on fake rosters since at least the classic one from 2003, so that's probably gotten a few thinking that they have a shot. Also, there are fan games like Smash Flash 2 which have 4 characters from Shonen series (Goku, Luffy, Naruto and Ichigo).

saw this on discord, can anyone back this up?:

Spoiler: images contain language

and has anyone heard of the "leaker" in the images in this tweet? linking instead of embedding due to the "leaker"'s questionable username: https://twitter.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1274105486258864131

Not treading new ground per se, and it sounds like it's following the "Bloody Tears" route.

Color me sceptical. And nope, not heard of that twitter name.