Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Aetheri]

Chocobo has the mascot appeal like Slime or Jack Frost of Dragon Quest or SMT respectively yes.


But you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't recognize Cloud, he's just that iconic. When someone kinda 'becomes' the face of a series, I'd argue that's mascot status.

Having a stronger legacy compared to other protags and being arguably the most recognizable/popular character in the series would indeed give someone enough clout to become the face of a series by the point of view of the fans. But Cloud still doesn't really fit the role of a mascot since the only time he's used in promotion for Final Fantasy as an IP is for FFVII and any directly related games and media. Cloud has been one of the main characters that has appeared in any crossovers featuring final fantasy characters however, such as Kingdom Hearts and the Dissidia series. Which sort of strengthens the argument for why Min Min was chosen as the Arms rep in Smash due to her popularity amoung fans and the devs. Popular =/= mascot, perhaps as an 'unofficial mascot' but not an actual mascot.

 

[ZephyrZ]

As I've said before in the past, I don't think landing on a protagonist/mascot is really a hard rule as much as it is something that just usually makes the most sense for character picks by default.

I really believe we tend to really overthink the selection process and so many people struggling to comprehend Min Min's inclusion kind of reinforces that believe to me. Sakurai literally gave us the reason Min Min was chosen in the presentation - the producer just said "I want Min Min". Obviously they still put thought into the characters they pick but I don't think they have hard rules they have to follow to a "T". They're probably more of very loose guidelines that aren't etched in stone.

It's also worth noting that I don't think comparing ARMS to other fighting games always really works here. Ryu is a gaming legend with decades of games and crossovers cementing him not just as the face of Streetfighter, but as one of the biggest gaming icons ever. Springman and Ribbon Girl had just one very experimental game who's future is still up in the air.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I doubt they'd actually do this but it'd be funny if they made Springman constantly getting snubbed for things a recurring joke in the series. At least it would give him a little separation from all the other shounen fighting game protags.

That role I think fits more for Waluigi given his loser status and the **** Dastardly/Robbie Rotten of Smash.

 

[Garteam]

Either way, I think next week's Famitsu column will shed a little more light onto the specifics of the selection process for Min Min. However, we don't really have any reason to doubt that the story Sakurai tells us in the Direct is the broad strokes version of how things went: He originally considered Ninjara for the role, but settled on Min Min after the producer said he wanted her. That's not unheard of in the context of Smash either, Intelligent Systems basically said "Ike should be the Fire Emblem character" during Brawl's development and, lo and behold, Ike got in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I kinda wonder, had COVID-19 not been an thing that Crash would had been already our double reveal for E3 to coincide with the new game but given the virus, this obviously delayed him to September.

My current prediction who fighter 77 is.

 

[The_Naraotor]

With Vault Boy from Bethesda Softworks in my boy Doomslayer still had a chance. Still rooting for Rayman that would be dope and why not Lara Croft.

Now I hope to have at least from my character DLC wish one of my four wishes (on the four from first party)

 

[Dinoman96]

I doubt they'd actually do this but it'd be funny if they made Springman constantly getting snubbed for things a recurring joke in the series. At least it would give him a little separation from all the other shounen fighting game protags.

To be honest, I sort of like the idea of Spring Man going to a dark place in ARMS 2. As in, after failing to accomplish his dreams of winning the ARMS Grand Prix, he becomes depressed and ultimately bitter and jaded.

Would be pretty neat meta storytelling, to be honest.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

With Vault Boy from Bethesda Softworks in my boy Doomslayer still had a chance. Still rooting for Rayman that would be dope and why not Lara Croft.

Now I hope to have at least from my character DLC wish one of my four wishes (on the four from first party)

Honestly still say Mii costumes, those of 3rd party companies hurts their chances more then anything.

 

[3BitSaurus]

One good thing about Min Min's moveset is that it has enough specific Min Min things that it allows other ARMS character like Spring Man, Twintelle, etc to join in using their own unique traits.

Since Min Min is the only character to have two different ARMS as her signature ones, I wonder if a future ARMS character would have a similar ARMS change down B, but for both arms instead.

It's also cool that a second fighter would use completely different weapons from her and there's a lot to go for here.

https://armswiki.org/wiki/ARMS_(equipment)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I doubt they'd actually do this but it'd be funny if they made Springman constantly getting snubbed for things a recurring joke in the series. At least it would give him a little separation from all the other shounen fighting game protags.

Honestly that makes him MORE of a shounen protagonist, specifically the season 1 protagonist who has to work to get their natural talent to gel with the rules of the world. Then from season2 onwards it snowballs from there.

 

[kirbsmash]

I would just like to remind you guys that with the Dragon Arm/Arm Switching, Min-Min Matches up with the Bayo glitch from awhile back, as that glitch messed with the Change in apperance Bayo is Supposed to make

But how do that make sense??

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Aight, Imma head out. But before I do, just know....
View attachment 275901You can change the future.

the Manado is just his cat stuck head first in thr couch cusions

 

[EricTheGamerman]

But how do that make sense??

It doesn't and none of any number of glitches that "hint at a character being used for a base to another" has ever actually panned out. The Duck Hunt and Mii Swordfighter glitches that started this whole craze was directly the result of faulty SD cards, so this has never had a leg to stand on. A game with 82 playable fighters and 108 stages with countless animations and variations as a result of that content is going to have a variety of glitches at different times for different reasons. Every new interaction is another place for something to go wrong or result in something like a new visual glitch.

It's just people take a minor glitch in an incredibly complex title and decide to build a conspiracy theory around it because it advances their own most wanted to a potentially better position.

 

[Pokelego999]

Question, what "glitch" are we talking about?

 

[MooMew64]

I feel that some are over complicating why Min Min was chosen. I don't necessarily think it was as deep a process as Sakurai trying to circumvent a rule: Min Min was added because a lot of people like her, and the Director of ARMS likes her and asked for her. I think that it's as simple as that.

Now does, that mean mascots and protagonists will be skipped in the future? Given Sakurai and Yabuki's reasoning here...No, I don't think Min Min fundamentally changes anything about how Sakurai chooses characters.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If “being the protagonist” didn’t matter, then why did Sakurai mention it at all?

It is a mascot crossover. We have gotten a “protagonist” or “mascot” for EVERY single series, because it makes logical sense to do so.

It is reflected in the game itself. Sakurai mentioned it himself based on what Mr. Yabuki said.

Based on their logic, Min Min is a protagonist. They are selecting characters, so logically that matters with how they select characters. Philosophically you may not agree, but objectively they have picked “mascot” or “protagonist” for every series in Smash, “loophole” or not.

That’s how I see it. It’s right there.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Speaking of glitches I remember how 7NATOR stated how Professor Layton could fit into the supposed Ness glitch as it deals with the eyes.

Both Ness and Professor Layton have similar eyes. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

There is nothing that shows anything relating to the glitches supporting character inclusion. It was related to faulty SD cards.

It means nothing. I recommend not using it to support characters. It means literally nothing.

 

[Curious Villager]

Speaking of glitches I remember how 7NATOR stated how Professor Layton could fit into the supposed Ness glitch as it deals with the eyes.

Both Ness and Professor Layton have similar eyes. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I probably wouldn't really follow it too closely until we have more concrete evidence that this kind of stuff actually means much.

This is coming from someone who'd love to see Layton by the way.

 

[RileyXY1]

There is nothing that shows anything relating to the glitches supporting character inclusion. It was related to faulty SD cards.

It means nothing. I recommend not using it to support characters. It means literally nothing.

Yeah. I agree with you. These glitches mean nothing.

 

[I.D.]

For ****'s sake. It's not that being the protagonist doesn't matter anymore. It's that now it's proven that it's something that can be overcome. In this case due to developer input and maybe fan popularity (I suspect Yabuki is savvy enough to know the fanbase's opinion of Min Min). At least for games where multiple characters are playable you can't just say "IT'S THE GUY ON THE COVER 100%".

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

For ****'s sake. It's not that being the protagonist doesn't matter anymore. It's that now it's proven that it's something that can be overcome. In this case due to developer input and maybe fan popularity (I suspect Yabuki is savvy enough to know the fanbase's opinion of Min Min). At least for games where multiple characters are playable you can't just say "IT'S THE GUY ON THE COVER 100%".

Don’t know that the first sentence was necessary.

Saying it’s, “Not the guy on the cover” depends on the game. If the game isn’t similar to ARMS or doesn’t have a cast similar to ARMS, it potentially won’t be a similar situation.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I kinda wonder, had COVID-19 not been an thing that Crash would had been already our double reveal for E3 to coincide with the new game but given the virus, this obviously delayed him to September.

My current prediction who fighter 77 is.

That’s what I originally thought. Do the same thing as last E3, just with Min Min being shadow dropped (as I think was originally planned for Hero at E3, don’t know the veracity) with a Crash announcement for the Fall.

That being said, for some reason I feel a bit more skeptical of that initial assumption. Not sure why if the trailer would have been ready for E3, why it would be delayed. It’s possible, and I hope Crash is in and next. I’d instantly get the Fighter’s Pass if Crash was announced.

 

[I.D.]

Don’t know that the first sentence was necessary.

Saying it’s, “Not the guy on the cover” depends on the game. If the game isn’t similar to ARMS or doesn’t have a cast similar to ARMS, it potentially won’t be a similar situation.

It's exasperating watching both sides trying to strawman the other into the most extremist position possible.

Yes, I understand it depends on the game. OBVIOUSLY. My point is that being the mascot/main character/protagonist whatever you wanna call it is just a factor and not a hard rule. How important of a factor is up to debate. But now it's something that has happened once, so it MIGHT happen again in the future (it MIGHT also not happen).

 

[MooMew64]

It's exasperating watching both sides trying to strawman the other into the most extremist position possible.

Yes, I understand it depends on the game. OBVIOUSLY. My point is that being the mascot/main character/protagonist whatever you wanna call it is just a factor and not a hard rule. How important of a factor is up to debate. But now it's something that has happened once, so it MIGHT happen again in the future (it MIGHT also not happen).

I don't think it's a strawman when the Director of ARMS himself said Min Min (and the rest of the ARMS cast) is a protagonist.

Like, I really don't think Min Min was any kind of exception.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I kinda wonder, had COVID-19 not been an thing that Crash would had been already our double reveal for E3 to coincide with the new game but given the virus, this obviously delayed him to September.

My current prediction who fighter 77 is.

I doubt that things would have been different. Sakurai warned us that Fighter 6 would take some time to be revealed which he said before COVID-19 became widespread. Not to mention that development on the game hasn't been held back by it. I think it was always the plan to show Min Min on her own.

 

[I.D.]

I don't think it's a strawman when the Director of ARMS himself said Min Min (and the rest of the ARMS cast) is a protagonist.

Like, I really don't think Min Min was any kind of exception.

And yet Sakurai addresses the Springman situation. The trailer initially tries to trick you into thinking it's Springman. Springman was chosen as the assist trophy (the "highest" form of representation) in the base game when they didn't know whether an ARMS DLC character could come in the future. The Smash artwork features an annoyed Springman looking through the window. Springman is still used in the vast majority of promotional material for ARMS. The ARMS stage is Springman's stage.

If all it takes is for the developer to declare all playable characters as protagonists, then it's a rule easily bypassed, at least from a developer's perspective. So it MIGHT be bypassed again.

 

[cmbsfm]

I think if ARMS gets another game, Springman will probably be a newcomer in the next smash game.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I doubt that things would have been different. Sakurai warned us that Fighter 6 would take some time to be revealed which he said before COVID-19 became widespread. Not to mention that development on the game hasn't been held back by it. I think it was always the plan to show Min Min on her own.

Revealing one first party character from a series revealed a few months earlier doesn’t scream E3 to me. Not saying it’s impossible that was always the plan, but feels far more likely something changed as a result of current affairs. As to what, though, that could be a variety of things, and perhaps seeing who FP7 is would shed some light on that.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Gonna make a bold prediction and say that I think Fighter 77 is gonna be shown way earlier than most of us expect. Possibly August, maybe July, but generally sometime before September.

Yes, Covid-19 did affect Smash development to some extent, to the point that the ARMS character had to be delayed and their presentation was filmed at Sakurai's house (complete with no voice-over translation, just subtitles)... but even so, development as a whole hasn't stopped. Sakurai himself said that development has still been going somewhat smoothly enough despite the team having to work from home, and throughout the long waiting period between Byleth and Min Min's reveals, I doubt that the developers have just been sitting on their butts waiting for Min Min's reveal like we have before they can move on. They've likely still been working on Fighter 7 (and possibly Fighter 8 and beyond) this whole time, and the wait for Min Min's reveal has been long enough that I think, at the very very least, Fighter 7 is now in a presentable-enough state that they can be revealed and shown off not long after Min Min.

... granted, this may just be wishful thinking on my part. Even if the period between now and September may not be that long compared to the pre-Min Min wait, I still really, really, really don't want to wait until September for what is only the second fighter of this pass.

 

[SNEKeater]

Because Dante's Moveset is not only alot bigger than Min-Min's, but he has much more variety in his attacks and Mechanics. It also doesn't help that he has the same formula as Bayonetta of being a Stylish Combo machine, and we saw how that turned out in the last game. Dante is a balancing nightmare for a game like Smash

Ultimate has dozens and dozens of characters and is pretty damn well balanced. Dante, or any character focused on combos, wouldn't be a problem.

I think gameplay design. I learned that you cannot save the game as often as you like... since there is a limited number of typewriter ink. Oh, and the limited inventory slots... and I cannot really drop items if I don't need them, no, I have to look for storage boxes and put items in them to free up space in my inventory slots.

You have to keep in mind that REmake and RE4 were released in 2002 and 2005 respectively. The ink ribbon system is a key feature of the classic entries and it adds another layer of survival to the game. I get that at first it can be somewhat annoying, but I can assure you that you have enough ink ribbons in REmake to clear the game. At least if you don't save the game every 5 minutes. Try to save only when you have made significant progress, for example.
Limited inventory slots are an important part of classic RE games and modern games such as RE7 and RE2make. I would suggest not pick everything you see at first, especially if you're far from a save room or don't really need to pick certain objects, such as herbs, when you're at full health.

RE4 is a completely different thing tho, while it retains part of the survival tone of the previous games it has a lot more action. An incredible game as well, it paved the way for a lot of 3rd person games.

Sometimes this community is just so strange.

Creator of ARMS: "Spring Man is not more important than any other character."
Community: You don't know what you're talking about- Spring Man is everything.

I don't think anyone is going that far. But it would be absurd to negate the fact that Springman is indeed more important than at least most of the ARMS roster. A lot of people already pointed out the obvious differences in treatment between him and characters like Kid Cobra or Byte & Barq.

Also, what Yabuki said was "everyone is a protagonist" which is different from what you quoted. Personally, I don't believe that at all and I think that's partially PR talk, because no effort is needed to see that certain characters have better treatment than the others. Springman is obviously one of the special characters, with Ribbon Girl being second. I mean, Springman has a lot of presence in Min Min's presentation despite not being the chosen character to be playable.

Maybe, just maybe, our Tekken rep will be someone else.

I mean, it's not like these are the main protagonist and main villain from now on...

While I've always liked Jin more than Heihachi or Kazuya, I don't think this is very likely. If next character was Jin or Kazuya, I'd guess Heihachi's Costume would return with them.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Revealing one first party character from a series revealed a few months earlier doesn’t scream E3 to me. Not saying it’s impossible that was always the plan, but feels far more likely something changed as a result of current affairs. As to what, though, that could be a variety of things, and perhaps seeing who FP7 is would shed some light on that.

Well to be fair, there was only one true newcomer reveal at E3 2018 being Ridley while the Inklings were revealed during the teaser trailer in March so it doesn't seem that out of place that Nintendo would only reveal one character for E3.

 

[7NATOR]

To be fair to Ridley, they also revealed everyone is Here, along with the Ultimate title and features in general. I think just ARMS for E3 is kinda shoddy, so there might be something soon

 

[CosmicQuark]

Well to be fair, there was only one true newcomer reveal at E3 2018 being Ridley while the Inklings were revealed during the teaser trailer in March so it doesn't seem that out of place that Nintendo would only reveal one character for E3.

If we’re going with E3 2018 as a reference, though, Min Min fits the Inkling spot, but no one in the Ridley spot. So while I think it is possible Min Min was it, I’m not sure why Nintendo would have originally planned for E3 2020 to be quantitatively weaker when compared to 2018/2019. Again, not saying it’s impossible—this is Nintendo. But, past precedence makes it likely there would have been something else had COVID not delayed announcements. Not guaranteed, just likely to me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Friendly reminder that despite only having Paper Mario, SwoShi DLC and Min Min, Nintendo isn't showing up at NG+ nor do they have a presentation planned unlike every other major publisher. I highly doubt that was all they had to show at E3 had Covid not happened

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think the next amiibo releases might indeed be close to the fighters just like in FP1, pointing to a September reveal. Though to be fair, we were given a December 2021 deadline for the second Pass, so I don't think we're behind schedule tbh.

Keep in mind, the presentation for Min Min was filmed in May, so I'm willing to bet they started production on CP7 some time ago. Maybe even CP8, depending on how many people are still on board.

You know, despite how frustrated many of us (myself included) got at the ARMS guessing game... I think it's safe to say that Nintendo reached their objective with it - many people seem to have downloaded the free trial and it kept everyone talking about it for a time. And all for a game that's considered way past its prime, despite selling decently well. I think many other companies - and a few fighting games, even - would kill to be able to generate buzz this easily.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wasn’t Min Min supposedly originally meant to be shown in Spring? I’m predicting July for the dual presentation they meant for E3 of FP7 and FP8.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Wasn’t Min Min supposedly originally meant to be shown in Spring? I’m predicting July for the dual presentation they meant for E3 of FP7 and FP8.

No, ARMS was always meant for the June release date. Everything we know indicates that Smash's production has largely continued as planned and that the March Mini Direct actually aired completely as intended, which meant ARMS in June was always the intention too. Seeing FP8 any time soon sounds borderline unreasonable with that in mind.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Wasn’t Min Min supposedly originally meant to be shown in Spring? I’m predicting July for the dual presentation they meant for E3 of FP7 and FP8.

I think Min Min was meant to be revealed back in March, when they revealed that Fighter 6 was from ARMS in that Mini-Direct and started the months-long guessing game.

I don't know about a dual reveal with both Fighter 7 and Fighter 8 (I'd love it after the wait we've been through, but I'm trying to keep my expectations in check), but I'm positive that at least Fighter 7 being revealed before September is more likely than people think.

 

[Guynamednelson]

ARMS character had to be delayed

I'm not sure if it really was a delay as much as it was Min Min's gimmicks. A fighter like that definitely couldn't have been made within the same timespan as Joker. Maybe Hero's timespan.