Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ben Holt]

Spring Man wasn't robbed of jack ****, mate. Min Min picked up that invitation fair and square. It was just a random envelope that fluttered onto Spring Stadium, it didn't belong to ANY of the ARMS fighters to begin with.

to speak from an actual gameplay standpoint spring man's boring as **** and min min was not only the superior choice for moveset potential, she was the superior choice for aesthetics and actual character, too

I actually played ARMS at launch.
Spring Man MUCH BETTER represents ARMS as a whole. You can call it generic, but I call it "well rounded". Min Min doesn't even use a standard fist ARM.
I don't hate her by any means, but she is certainly not the best choice.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Haha, alright yall should probably shut this dumb protag stuff the **** up before I eat yalls asses

no but for real, yall are wearing me out

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah that's quite possible. I just don't see them removing Spring Man's mascot status completely like Dimitri. If there's ever another character from ARMS making an appearance in something it will be Spring Man. I think a better comparison is Isabelle and Tom Nook. Isabelle is the favorite and the mascot but if you think Nook is not one of the most significant characters in Animal Crossing then I don't know what to tell ya! XD I know he's not in Smash but that really doesn't matter. And that's kind of what I mean when I talk about Smash influencing things. Tom Nook not being in there doesn't mean he lost his big league AC character status.

Man why are you so insecure about Min Min overshadowing Spring Man? This is like your fifth post I've seen on the matter for something that's only a possibility and not a guaratee

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I doubt they'd actually do this but it'd be funny if they made Springman constantly getting snubbed for things a recurring joke in the series. At least it would give him a little separation from all the other shounen fighting game protags.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I’m happy with Min Min, her having access to kicks really helps give her a more varied and balanced moveset. I don’t think having extra long punches for every attack would have worked out too well.

 

[Shroob]

People keep comparing this situation to Dimitri and Morrigan of Darkstalkers


And while that's fair, I feel like Dimitri's main issue is that incorporating him in more crossover games, which is something Darkstalkers loves to do since its series is fairly dormant, is a technical nightmare due to one thing in particular.


Dimitri's signature attack, Midnight Bliss, changes the opponent temporarily into the opposite gender, which usually makes the character look completely different, and making a female/male version for, say, every character in Marvel Vs Capcom 2, when that game was more or less an asset dump, would have been an INSANE amount of work, and now that we're in the 3D era, making all those models for a single attack seems a bit overkill, especially now since characters like Morrigan, Felicia and Hsien-Ko have completely overshadowed him.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People keep comparing this situation to Dimitri and Morrigan of Darkstalkers


And while that's fair, I feel like Dimitri's main issue is that incorporating him in more crossover games, which is something Darkstalkers loves to do since its series is fairly dormant, is a technical nightmare due to one thing in particular.


Dimitri's signature attack, Midnight Bliss, changes the opponent temporarily into the opposite gender, which usually makes the character look completely different, and making a female/male version for, say, every character in Marvel Vs Capcom 2, when that game was more or less an asset dump, would have been an INSANE amount of work, and now that we're in the 3D era, making all those models for a single attack seems a bit overkill, especially now since characters like Morrigan, Felicia and Hsien-Ko have completely overshadowed him.

At the same time, Morrigan overshadowed him in the series proper, outright having become the new protagonist. Also, Project X Zone, which has both of them as a tagteam character, gave him Midnight Bliss despite no unique sprites being made for it at all

 

[Koopaul]

Honestly I think if people stop hating on Spring Man this conversation will stop. But it won't. This will go on for years I fear.

I'd atleast like to see people stop calling Spring Man "boring" or "generic". Did you not see the Smash trailer? Did you not see what a wacky guy he is? He's not Ryu.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly I think if people stop hating on Spring Man this conversation will stop. But it won't. This will go on for years I fear.

I'd atleast like to see people stop calling Spring Man "boring" or "generic". Did you not see the trailer? Did you not see what a wacky guy he is? He's not Ryu!

My issue was that if Spring Man got in, they spent 3 months hyping up that it could have been anybody only to go for the one who'd have gotten in anyway. Now that it explicitly isn't the case, that negativity is gone

 

[Autumn ♫]

i'd be down if min min got more of the spotlight in an arms sequel, even if just in promotional material. she looks super fun in smash though omggggggg, i can't wait to try her

 

[Droodle]

Springman pretty much got Chrom'd. So needless to say his chances for next game (if ARMS is still active) is insanely high.

 

[Ben Holt]

Haha, alright yall should probably shut this dumb protag stuff the **** up before I eat yalls asses
View attachment 275892

no but for real, yall are wearing me out

Don't trifle with me, Pumpkaboo! I've seen your Animal Crossing costumes! I know what you're into!

 

[Autumn ♫]

Springman pretty much got Chrom'd. So needless to say his chances for next game (if ARMS is still active) is insanely high.

Depending on his popularity, definitely. Chrom's saving grace for Ultimate was his popularity, I doubt we would have gotten him otherwise.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Spring Man may not be playable, but he’s at least gotten more representation in Smash Ultimate than any other non playable character. He’s a Spirit, Assist Trophy, Mii Fighter costume and now appears in a Final Smash, that’s pretty impressive.

 

[SirBillyBob]

It's simple, really. Spring Man and Min Min are both loved by the devs. Yabuki was like, "Why not make Min Min the fighter?" Sakurai was like, "Ok, cool."
Min Min gets in and Spring Man gets consolation prizes such as the stage being his and being a focal point of the trailer.
He's still a mascot of ARMS, it's just that Min Min got the invite for this round of newcomers.
There isn't much thought to it, really.

 

[Ben Holt]

Man why are you so insecure about Min Min overshadowing Spring Man? This is like your fifth post I've seen on the matter for something that's only a possibility and not a guaratee

I'm the opposite, my friend.
I WANT Min Min to become the protag so that she doesn't stick out as a sore thumb for being the first character from a series that wasn't the de facto mascot.
But she'd probably have to have her default ARMS changed to get regular fists, as those are the most basic, and fighting game mascots tend to be basic.

 

[cosmicB]

Right, and Sega had releases over multiple waves, but the Persona costumes came with the Persona character. I think that's just the way it's going to work. The other way makes a lot less sense, frankly. If Heihachi is still going to be playable, what, is that when they're going to release Lloyd and Gil, but not Heihachi? Are they not going to have any new Tekken costumes? And if they do, why wouldn't the Heihachi costume release with them?

Also, one meeting or several, neither precludes being able to negotiate multiple things that will release at different times at the same meeting. I mean, FP11 isn't going to release for around a year and a half, but was probably negotiated for a year ago. It's entirely possible other things were also negotiated for from that company to be released in the two and a half year interim. Assuming FP11 is third-party, but even if not, you get the point.

I think I may have misunderstood you. I thought you meant that third party companies would be a sort of "one and done" thing as far as getting characters/mii costumes go. You mentioned Heihachi, so I assumed you meant a Namco playable character isn't coming.

I would think Lloyd (or Yuri) would come with a bunch of Tales mii costumes in addition to Gil. There's a ton to choose from.

 

[Koopaul]

I'm the opposite, my friend.
I WANT Min Min to become the protag so that she doesn't stick out as a sore thumb for being the first character from a series that wasn't the de facto mascot.
But she'd probably have to have her default ARMS changed to get regular fists, as those are the most basic, and fighting game mascots tend to be basic.

Okay that's a weird thing to me. But we all have our reasons. Obviously my reason is... I like Spring Man. I don't like people ****ting on him. I'm responding to the hate. I saw people respond to the Fire Emblem hate why can't I respond to the Spring Man hate?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Springman pretty much got Chrom'd. So needless to say his chances for next game (if ARMS is still active) is insanely high.

Eh, Chrom not only had lasting popularity on his side, which Spring Man would need to prove, but also a character who he could become an echo of. Not a single Chrom fan was mad at him being a Roy echo, especially it not only fit his character, but also addressed what Sakurai said about Chrom prior, Sakurai denied him due to being too similar to Marth and Ike, which Roy ended up becoming anyway when he came back. Not sure how Spring Man fans would feel about him having a dragon arm and a bunch of kicks, especially if some consider him getting decked in the face a painful insult

 

[Ben Holt]

Okay that's a weird thing to me. But we all have our reasons. Obviously my reason is... I like Spring Man. I don't like people ****ting on him. I'm responding to the hate. I saw people respond to the Fire Emblem hate why can't I respond to the Spring Man hate?

Oh. I too am a Spring Maniac.
I too am overconfident, charismatic, high-aiming, vain, and love pizza.
But Spring Man can always come later. Min Min will forever be the first character from a series to not be the de-facto mascot, and that feels so... wrong.
Again, I have medically diagnosed OCD, so this is mostly a me problem.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Eh, Chrom not only had lasting popularity on his side, which Spring Man would need to prove, but also a character who he could become an echo of. Not a single Chrom fan was mad at him being a Roy echo, especially it not only fit his character, but also addressed what Sakurai said about Chrom prior, Sakurai denied him due to being too similar to Marth and Ike, which Roy ended up becoming anyway when he came back. Not sure how Spring Man fans would feel about him having a dragon arm and a bunch of kicks, especially if some consider him getting decked in the face a painful insult

I think it's totally possible to base Spring Man off of Min Min ala Wolf and Falcon to Fox and Isabelle to Villager. Just change the ARMS to his standard ones, replace some kicks with punches, change a few hitboxes, and viola, new fighter. Obviously it wouldn't be that easy, and I'm not taking into account ARMS' future, but it could be done.

 

[DevaAshera]

I doubt they'd actually do this but it'd be funny if they made Springman constantly getting snubbed for things a recurring joke in the series. At least it would give him a little separation from all the other shounen fighting game protags.

It has kinda been a running joke with him..he's even being punched in the face by Ribbon Girl on the Box Art.

I actually played ARMS at launch.
Spring Man MUCH BETTER represents ARMS as a whole. You can call it generic, but I call it "well rounded". Min Min doesn't even use a standard fist ARM.
I don't hate her by any means, but she is certainly not the best choice.

I played ARMS at launch too, Min Min represents the game fine. The focus is on extendable arms, not really the fists.
I think she was the best choice since she pleases more people than Spring Man would have.

People keep comparing this situation to Dimitri and Morrigan of Darkstalkers


And while that's fair, I feel like Dimitri's main issue is that incorporating him in more crossover games, which is something Darkstalkers loves to do since its series is fairly dormant, is a technical nightmare due to one thing in particular.


Dimitri's signature attack, Midnight Bliss, changes the opponent temporarily into the opposite gender, which usually makes the character look completely different, and making a female/male version for, say, every character in Marvel Vs Capcom 2, when that game was more or less an asset dump, would have been an INSANE amount of work, and now that we're in the 3D era, making all those models for a single attack seems a bit overkill, especially now since characters like Morrigan, Felicia and Hsien-Ko have completely overshadowed him.

Honestly, Demitri was overshadowed by the second game in the series, it was when they started hyping up Morrigan more..fans were even upset that she wasn't given a bigger role in the OVA based on the second game.
Not being feasible for Crossovers didn't help his case, though..but they could also use silhouettes or something to compensate for such things and Midnight Bliss didn't stop him from appearing in Capcom Fighting Evolution or SNK vs Capcom: SVC Chaos, where he kept the move and they did make several new sprites for Midnight Blissed characters..such as my favorite, Blissed Zero~

I'm the opposite, my friend.
I WANT Min Min to become the protag so that she doesn't stick out as a sore thumb for being the first character from a series that wasn't the de facto mascot.
But she'd probably have to have her default ARMS changed to get regular fists, as those are the most basic, and fighting game mascots tend to be basic.

You don't have to be basic to be the main character..that's honestly a trend I would like to see die..

 

[Ben Holt]

I think it's totally possible to base Spring Man off of Min Min ala Wolf and Falcon to Fox and Isabelle to Villager. Just change the ARMS to his standard ones, replace some kicks with punches, change a few hitboxes, and viola, new fighter. Obviously it wouldn't be that easy, and I'm not taking into account ARMS' future, but it could be done.

Maybe have the same Left ARM / Right ARM mechanic, but other than that, Spring Man would be totally different to Min Min.
Make Spring Man's Up-B be a B-ball dunk pretty much being like Byleth's Up-B.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think it's totally possible to base Spring Man off of Min Min ala Wolf and Falcon to Fox and Isabelle to Villager. Just change the ARMS to his standard ones, replace some kicks with punches, change a few hitboxes, and viola, new fighter. Obviously it wouldn't be that easy, and I'm not taking into account ARMS' future, but it could be done.

That's different from Chrom's scenario, as that's quite a bit beyond being an echo, being further than Ken

It has kinda been a running joke with him..he's even being punched in the face by Ribbon Girl on the Box Art.

I played ARMS at launch too, Min Min represents the game fine. The focus is on extendable arms, not really the fists.
I think she was the best choice since she pleases more people than Spring Man would have.

Honestly, Demitri was overshadowed by the second game in the series, it was when they started hyping up Morrigan more..fans were even upset that she wasn't given a bigger role in the OVA based on the second game.
Not being feasible for Crossovers didn't help his case, though..but they could also use silhouettes or something to compensate for such things and Midnight Bliss didn't stop him from appearing in Capcom Fighting Evolution or SNK vs Capcom: SVC Chaos, where he kept the move and they did make several new sprites for Midnight Blissed characters..such as my favorite, Blissed Zero~

You don't have to be basic to be the main character..that's honestly a trend I would like to see die..

Honestly it took me like 20 seconds to see the difference between Zero and MB Zero, that skirt looks so natural for Zero too

 

[DevaAshera]

Maybe have the same Left ARM / Right ARM mechanic, but other than that, Spring Man would be totally different to Min Min.
Make Spring Man's Up-B be a B-ball dunk pretty much being like Byleth's Up-B.

I don't think he'd be completely different..most of Min Min's animations could still be used or altered for Spring Man, it would only be the effects of them that would change. He'd also lose her Kung Fu moves, likely for shorter non-springy punches instead.
Spring Man would be very much a 'Wolf' or 'Isabelle', not quite Echoes, but not completely original either.

That's different from Chrom's scenario, as that's quite a bit beyond being an echo, being further than Ken

Honestly it took me like 20 seconds to see the difference between Zero and MB Zero, that skirt looks so natural for Zero too

I couldn't find a bigger gif lol
But yeah, I love her so much~
If only she were 'canon' lol

 

[SharkLord]

Y'know, on closer inspection, Min Min's usage of kicks makes a lot of sense. She's the closest you can get to ARMS in 2D with the limitations of Smash, and in ARMS, you could only ever punch forward, plus a bit of guidance based on the joysticks and your opponent's position. It makes sense that her ARMS attacks are limited to the side attacks, because that's how it was in ARMS. Besides, the B-button controls the right arm, but it also controls the recovery and ARMS switching. We couldn't have ARMS for the up and down attacks without sacrificing the right ARM B-button system.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't think he'd be completely different..most of Min Min's animations could still be used or altered for Spring Man, it would only be the effects of them that would change. He'd also lose her Kung Fu moves, likely for shorter non-springy punches instead.
Spring Man would be very much a 'Wolf' or 'Isabelle', not quite Echoes, but not completely original either.

I couldn't find a bigger gif lol
But yeah, I love her so much~
If only she were 'canon' lol
View attachment 275894

Oh it wasn't gif size that made me need a while, Zero already has a surprisingly feminine design so I thought he literally didn't change lmao

 

[SirBillyBob]

That's different from Chrom's scenario, as that's quite a bit beyond being an echo, being further than Ken

Honestly it took me like 20 seconds to see the difference between Zero and MB Zero, that skirt looks so natural for Zero too

Of course, that's why I referenced the furries and not the echo fighters.

 

[SharkLord]

It has kinda been a running joke with him..he's even being punched in the face by Ribbon Girl on the Box Art.

I played ARMS at launch too, Min Min represents the game fine. The focus is on extendable arms, not really the fists.
I think she was the best choice since she pleases more people than Spring Man would have.

Honestly, Demitri was overshadowed by the second game in the series, it was when they started hyping up Morrigan more..fans were even upset that she wasn't given a bigger role in the OVA based on the second game.
Not being feasible for Crossovers didn't help his case, though..but they could also use silhouettes or something to compensate for such things and Midnight Bliss didn't stop him from appearing in Capcom Fighting Evolution or SNK vs Capcom: SVC Chaos, where he kept the move and they did make several new sprites for Midnight Blissed characters..such as my favorite, Blissed Zero~

You don't have to be basic to be the main character..that's honestly a trend I would like to see die..

Looks like Ciel. Wonder how she feels about that...
And I understand the pitfall of basic protags. It's tough to find the right balance that represents the mechanics well enough without being bland. At least it's easier when the game itself is wacky like ARMS, so even if we got Spring Man he would've been pretty unique.

I think Darkstalkers, Guilty Gear, and Skullgirls are good examples of games that pull off the unique protagonist thing pretty well. Everyone in the cast is unique in their own right so you can't really go wrong, just so long as they're beginner-friendly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Looks like Ciel. Wonder how she feels about that...
And I understand the pitfall of basic protags. It's tough to find the right balance that represents the mechanics well enough without being bland. At least it's easier when the game itself is wacky like ARMS, so even if we got Spring Man he would've been pretty unique.

I think Darkstalkers, Guilty Gear, and Skullgirls are good examples of games that pull off the unique protagonist thing pretty well. Everyone in the cast is unique in their own right so you can't really go wrong, just so long as they're beginner-friendly.

I mean, a beginner friendly Guilty Gear character seems like such a paradox, even Sol has his own unique gimmick that no other character has in GG

 

[DevaAshera]

Looks like Ciel. Wonder how she feels about that...
And I understand the pitfall of basic protags. It's tough to find the right balance that represents the mechanics well enough without being bland. At least it's easier when the game itself is wacky like ARMS, so even if we got Spring Man he would've been pretty unique.

I think Darkstalkers, Guilty Gear, and Skullgirls are good examples of games that pull off the unique protagonist thing pretty well. Everyone in the cast is unique in their own right so you can't really go wrong, just so long as they're beginner-friendly.

I'd say to toss in Blazblue as well..honestly, any Fighting Game series that didn't use Street Fighter, and particularly Ryu, as a template does a pretty good job of not being bland.

 

[Goombaic]

Imagine if Charizard was added to Smash before Pikachu as the Pokemon character. A bit weird, but ultimately, who cares, they're both faces of the franchise and it's clear both could have done the job as well as the other, besides, it's not like either of them was going away soon. That's how I feel about Min Min before Spring Man in regards to representing ARMS.

 

[Staarih]

When adding ARMS content to Smash’s base game, they clearly took Spring Man as the protag, as he’s the one who was the AT, got a Mii costume and a high rank spirit. So the precedent was there, and I think he’ll remain the face of the series from here on out still.

I guess Min Min will likely somewhat share that spotlight now, an appearance in Smash does that to a character. Yabuki wanted to push her, so that’s just what we’ll have to roll with. She looks fun to play as, and honestly, I think any ARMS character would’ve been a great first rep in Smash, we just ended up with a producer’s fave.

 

[osby]

Her presentation really sold Min Min to me so I can't complain...

...but it feels like being a Spring Man fan is going to suck for a while.

 

[SirBillyBob]

What will most likely happen moving foward is that Spring Man will remain being the Central/male mascot while Min Min usurps Ribbon Girl as the Female mascot.

 

[N3ON]

I stand by the comparison I made months ago that Spring-Man is Ryu and Min Min is Chun Li.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Min Min helps people to be more open minded about competition for representation in their own games, people tend to compare companies and franchises to each other but now we are not limited to think about beginner friendly and bland characters anymore (not like every game will be willing to promote more out there characters, but the possibility now exists)

I always thought people saying they could only see Spring Man were really close minded and at the same time open minded in regards to Assist Trophies (bias?), an extrange duality nonetheless.

As long as it wasn’t Springman i was happy and Min Min didn’t disappoint <3 Now back to play ARMS (hopefully there’s more people playing after the reveal)

I stand by the comparison I made months ago that Spring-Man is Ryu and Min Min is Chun Li.

I feel this is more based on aesthetics (female chinese fighting girl = female chinese fighting girl) not really on status, wasn’t Chun Li even cut (and then brought back) from SF at one point?

 

[7NATOR]

I know Min-Min understandably took over discussion today

But I do actually have to ask 4 questions

1. The Crash game was officially revealed today, and it does show off some cool power-ups. A good amount of people (Including me) think he's kinda basic in terms of moveset, do you guys think perhaps some of the abilities in this New Crash game could have been told to Sakurai in a case that Crash is actually Playable in Smash

2. Between the Increasing amount of Western content (Fallout), along with things like Heihachi's costume coming back, Could Western Companies actually have a larger presense than japanesse Companies on the 3rd party front. could it also be the Opposite in that while Japanesse companies will lead in characters, Western Companies will lead in other content

3. Speaking of Heihachi, What's the status of a Fighting game character in this Pass? Arc systems has Kunio-Kun as Spirit but has not yet acknowledged Guilty Gear or Blazblue, their 2 biggest franchise. Do you think if Characters like Ragna and Sol were mii Costumes they would be put here? Could they also be represented in a pack of another 2D fighting game character, like Scorpion

4. Sakurai sidestepped the Assist Trophy Debate in this Presentation. People would say this make AT Upgrades unlikely, but could the opposite be true as well? if AT Upgrades were not happening at all in Smash Ultimate, would he have said it right then and there. by not speaking on it, is there an implication that there could actually be an upgrade, but it's not Spring Man

 

[Idon]

I feel this is more based on aesthetics (female chinese fighting girl = female chinese fighting girl) not really on status, wasn’t Chun Li even cut (and then brought back) from SF at one point?

Well yes, but if you weren't Ryu and Ken, SF3 kinda cut everyone, but she did get brought back in the same SF3 series anyway so it's a moot point. Anyway, I don't see what's that gotta do with Min Min not being the Chun-li of ARMS.

Though, I do agree with the general idea. It's a bit too early in the ARMS "series's" lifetime to call her a Chun-li, though with Yabuki's clear affection for her, it may very well happen if ARMS lives to see another game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

One good thing about Min Min's moveset is that it has enough specific Min Min things that it allows other ARMS character like Spring Man, Twintelle, etc to join in using their own unique traits.