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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SirBillyBob

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If we're talking Valve, then the top three choices would be Half-life, Portal, and TF2. All of them are influential and contain iconic characters, so choosing one to actually be the fighter would be tough, but I'd be more than delighted to see it happen.
 

cj.

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It won't happen, but I would like to see some Counter Strike and Day of Defeat representation
 
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SharkLord

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If we're talking Valve, then the top three choices would be Half-life, Portal, and TF2. All of them are influential and contain iconic characters, so choosing one to actually be the fighter would be tough, but I'd be more than delighted to see it happen.
As an outsider, I'd personally rep Portal with the Portal Gun as an item. It's easily the most iconic thing in the series (Though I hear the Companion Cube comes close), and would allow for some really screwy stuff.
And Smash is known for making franchises more popular as Fire Emblem had with the West and with Minmin as the playable character, further makes me think this will be the case of Spring Man = Demitri and Minmin = Morrigan.
If anything, I think she'll be like Roy; Not the most relevant in terms of franchise impact, but her spot in Smash insures that she'll top the popularity polls for years to come.
 

SirBillyBob

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Not to get all political.......but can we agree this is what Crash in Smash should look like?
nice crash.png

And definitively not this?
ugly crash.png
 

Aetheri

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Interesting conversation!

For me, Lara Croft's shot today was just about squashed. Despite the fact that, as far as video games go, I recall that the Tomb Raider series is one of the biggest in media profits (much from the movies, I imagine)... but today, Min Min was expressed to be able to punch in either direction, or even both.
The one big thing about Lara Croft is her dual pistols. While it could still utilize a different battle system than Min Min, this line made me question if that would really happen in the same pass.
I'm sure if given the opportunity Sakurai and co can come up with something creative for Lara Croft to make her an interesting addition. But as far as I can tell she'd need something that isn't just thrown in to make her more unique. I personally want her in the game off of her legacy alone, not necessarily for her ability and I feel like a lot of people that may request her addition eel the same way. Not all obviously but most people familiar with Tomb Raider.

And being a part of Square Enix is both a blessing and a curse since they could say yes if asked to add her, but at the same time they have about 5,671.4 potential Characters they could just as easily add to smash that would cause a big enough stir amoung Smash fans. Assuming Nintendo would even be interested in adding another Square character at all.
 

Garteam

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Pikachu wasnt on the cover until 4 mainline games into Pokemon.
Isabelle didn't exist until 2014.
Scorpion took a couple of games to start getting onto the cover as well.
Character based games have mascots develop over time frequently, these three above being some prime examples, and ARMS was always, very specifically, a character based game, where each one was themed, and even individually revealed and promoted before the game even released- the DLC characters got that treatment as well.
Spring Man and Ribbon Girl were the marketing options for the cover. The cover has to explain the game enough to parents who will think "oh, that's cool, here is money so my child can have this." Blue Boy (with a very simple name to explain the concept of the game). Pink Girl. It doesn't make them more prominent.

And now Nintendo confirmed that last part about them not being more important, as stated by ... was it the games creator? Someone high up. I cannot recall who at this moment.

Either way-let's see what happens with ARMS 2. I'd be quite shocked to see Spring Man on the cover.

Hell- it doesnt even matter, because if he was in any way intended to be the protagonist, fans voted on Min Min, the creator voted on Min Min, and now Smash is going to define the characters and how ARMS is seen.
I definitely agree that mascots frequently can and do change, I just don't think that's happening with ARMS. Usually, when a mascot change happens, there's multiple pieces of media that signify this change is occuring. Using your previous examples, Pikachu was the face of a full anime series, virtually every spin-off put out, and an updated rerelease of the original game around the time he solidified himself as the mascot. Isabelle, likewise, received a big merchandise push, became the face of every AC spinoff, and appeared in a ton of crossovers when she was becoming the face of that franchise. Immediately, I don't know a ton of Mortal Kombat so I can't comment on Scorpion, but I think the general point still stands. Mascot changes generally involve the floodgates opening on material with the character.

Min Min has two things going for her: her popularity and her Smash appearance. There's are two big achievements that guarantee she'll be important to the brand going forward, but I don't think it guarantees that she is (going to become) the new mascot. While popularity does occasionally impact who the mascot becomes, there's a ton more cases where that doesn't become the case. There were a good 20-30 years where Donald Duck was far more popular than Mickey Mouse, but Disney never adopted the pantless sailor as a mascot nor did they renamed their animated catalogue to "Donald Duck and Friends".

Her crossing over into Smash is definitely a more salient piece of evidence, given that the characters who make crossover appearances in fighting games usually represent their brand in a style similar to a mascot. However, this isn't a hard rule and there are times where the mascot for a particular brand is passed over for another fighter. Zero and Tron Bonne beat any form of Mega Man into Marvel vs. Capcom 3, but no one would call them the mascot of the Mega Man brand. Likewise, Akuma and Geese beat Ryu and Terry to joining Tekken 7. Even in Smash, Chrom continued to be Awakening's poster boy even after Robin and Lucina were playable in Smash for Wii U/3DS. Min Min's Smash appearance serves as a good start to make a case that Min Min is the new face of ARMS, but additional evidence is needed to prove she doesn't just fall into the latter camp.

Could Min Min become the mascot of an ARMS 2? Theoretically, yes. However, the little winks and nods to Spring Man really makes me think that they're not done with him being the series' mascot. He was one of the two characters involved in the revival Party Crash, his gameplay was tied with Ribbon Girl's for taking up the greatest amount of the screen when it was announced that revealed the ARMS rep, he's front and centre on Min Min's Final Smash, he was the first one to grab the Smash invitation, and Sakurai even took time out of the direct to discuss many were likely expecting him to be the ARMS fighter. Hell, even him pouting in the window in Min Min's Smash Art indicates further attempts on Nintendo's part to tie the brand to his presence.

That being said, does that mean that Min Min's a one-off with no objective merits to her inclusion? Of course not, she's a very cool character. Likewise, Spring Man being the mascot of the series doesn't make him an objectively better character than her, just like her Smash inclusion doesn't mean she's an objectively better character than him. Min Min will likely be featured on the box for ARMS 2 and be one of the series' most frequent characters going forward. Hell, I could even see her taking over the role of ARMS' female mascot from the suspiciously absent Ribbon Girl. I just think it's somewhat premature to start branding Min Min as ARMS' new primary mascot when it seems that Spring Man is also going to still be just as relevant in the future.
 

Perkilator

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Shroob

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Okay, I never understood people's beef with the N. Sane Trilogy design. I mean, I like the Crash 4 design just fine, but N. Sane Crash is my favorite one.
I got nothing against the N.Sane trilogy design

But my god do Toys For Bob make the games they touch gorgeous.
 

Ben Holt

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Not to get all political.......but can we agree this is what Crash in Smash should look like?
View attachment 275859
And definitively not this?
View attachment 275862
Agreed. When I saw the Crash 4 leaks, I was worried with flashbacks of Sonic 4, just trying to get a cash grab from nostalgia without adding anything new.
But after the trailer dropped, I am much more optimistic about Crash 4. It looks like the logical evolution of the original trilogy.
 

3BitSaurus

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So, considering that Sakurai flat out told us to expect more Spirit fights to change according to DLC, here's a list of DLC costumes that don't appear with their respective Spirits as of now:

- Tails
- Knuckles
- Morgana
- Veronica (part of a group Spirit)
- Slime
- Proto Man
- Zero
- X
- MegaMan.exe
- Iori
- Nakoruru
- Ryo
- Rex
- Geno (assuming his costume returns)

just trying to get a crash grab
Fixed.
 
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DevaAshera

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Well... my fears came to be. People saying that Min Min is the new mascot. But now I fear people are going to be saying Spring Man wasn't even the mascot to begin with. :ohwell:
These things happen. I just don't think Spring Man ever really gelled with the general audience, which you would want from a Mascot/MC, so instead they decided to go with Min Min. She will definitely be one of the mascot characters from here on out, I'm sure, we already knew she was the most popular character but now she'll get even more popularity from being in Smash.
I don't know if she'll quite pull a Morrigan and complete usurp the role of main mascot for the game, since Ninjara and Twintelle are also really popular, but she'll definitely end up sharing it and being used more in marketing for a potential sequel.
 

Rie Sonomura

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So, considering that Sakurai flat out told us to expect more Spirit fights to change according to DLC, here's a list of DLC costumes that don't appear with their respective Spirits as of now:

- Tails
- Knuckles
- Morgana
- Veronica (part of a group Spirit)
- Slime
- Proto Man
- Zero
- X
- MegaMan.exe
- Iori
- Nakoruru
- Ryo
- Rex
- Geno (assuming his costume returns)
You can replace the fighters in the Squid Sisters battle with their Mii Costumes too
 

3BitSaurus

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You can replace the fighters in the Squid Sisters battle with their Mii Costumes too
Well, duh, forgot about them.

I think Rex in particular is worth looking at here - if Min Min's Spirit battle gets upgraded to a Fighter one and they take too long to update Rex' costume into his Spirit battle, that could potentially be a sign, methinks. We'll know in a week.
 

Ben Holt

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I actually like the N. Sanity Trilogy design more tbh. I didn't think anyone had anything against it.
I like both designs, but I do remember originally seeing the N. Sane Design and thinking the fur was too "realistic".
I like the new stylized design that keeps the OG design but in a more fitting cartoony style like Mario and Sonic.
The N. Sane design is fine, great even, but it does seem like they took the original design and gave it too much photorealistic fur.
In essence, Crash Bandicoot should look kinda like a Donkey Kong character.
Also, Crash Bandicoot / Donkey Kong crossover game. Make it!
 
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N3ON

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Crash's new design seems to incorporate more slight traces of his Japanese design, at least to my eye, which is probably a benefit, Smash-wise.
 

Shroob

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Ya know, as much as people are dancing on the Spirits Fan Rule being dead, I noticed a lot of people instantly saying "F" for Heihachi.


Even though I 100% believe that Paid Mii costumes deconfirm, since, I mean c'mon, if we were getting Heihachi why wouldn't they save it for a Tekken bundle, why does everyone think this way? Heihachi theoretically could be his old man design, but I have a strong feeling he's out.
 

Ben Holt

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I just hope that Spring Man wasn't shafted BECAUSE he was an Assist Trophy.
That would be a giant slap in the face to the entire Smash fanbase.
But I'll still be rooting for Shovel Knight and Waluigi.
 

cj.

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I just realized that Min Min is a female hat Ken!

Jokes aside, I really love Min Min despite never playing Arms, I wasn't even excited about the Arms' rep, but that changed now!
 
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Ben Holt

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Ya know, as much as people are dancing on the Spirits Fan Rule being dead, I noticed a lot of people instantly saying "F" for Heihachi.


Even though I 100% believe that Paid Mii costumes deconfirm, since, I mean c'mon, if we were getting Heihachi why wouldn't they save it for a Tekken bundle, why does everyone think this way? Heihachi theoretically could be his old man design, but I have a strong feeling he's out.
To be fair, I don't think Heihachi is deconfirmed because he's a Mii Costume. I think he is deconfirmed for the remainder of Fighter's Pass Volume 2 because he was released after the lineup for Volume 2 was confirmed to be set.
This also is how I feel about Spirit Events that took place after Terry's reveal, as they confirmed that they were working on Volume 2 at that time.
I think base game Spirits and possibly even Mii Costumes could be fair game, but since FP7 was specifically NOT Spring Man, I'm placing Assist Trophies in the "very unlikely" category.
 

PSIGuy

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I decided to look through the old character pages on the Wii U/3DS site to see how well it held together. A bunch of the links changed so I've listed which ones have and to what.

Little Mac (Punch-Out!! Wii website is down)
Sonic (used to go to Lost World, now goes to a generic Sega page)
Wario (used to go to Game and Wario, now goes to Nintendo.com)

Shulk (now goes to Xenoblade Definitive Edition)
Robin (now goes to Fire Emblem Three Houses despite listing the game as Fire Emblem Awakening lmao)
Lucina (see above)
Marth (see above)
Ike (see above)
Bowser Jr (now goes to New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe instead of the original Wii U version)
Diddy Kong (now goes to Tropical Freeze on Switch instead of the original Wii U version)

Yoshi (Yoshi's New Island's page)
Luigi (Mario & Luigi Dream Team's page)
Peach (Super Mario 3D World's page)
Zelda (A Link Between World's page)
Sheik (Ocarina of Time 3D's page)
Zero Suit Samus (Metroid: Other M)
Olimar (Pikmin 3)
Toon Link (Wind Waker HD)
Rosalina (Super Mario 3D World's page)
Greninja and other Pokemon (official Pokemon website)
Palutena (Kid Icarus Uprising's page)
Dark Pit (see above)
Ganondorf (Ocarina of Time 3D's page)
Falco (Star Fox 64 3D's page)
Ryu (streetfighter.com)

Most of the changes were almost certainly just changing redirect urls or something boring. Like FireEmblem.nintendo.com now goes to Three Houses and that's presumably what hosted the Awakening stuff before, same with any game with a Switch port. Mind not all urls are updated as regularly as FE's is. Xenoblade.com still goes to Xenoblade Chronicles X's page this is how Elma can still win
 

Hinata

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Ya know, as much as people are dancing on the Spirits Fan Rule being dead, I noticed a lot of people instantly saying "F" for Heihachi.


Even though I 100% believe that Paid Mii costumes deconfirm, since, I mean c'mon, if we were getting Heihachi why wouldn't they save it for a Tekken bundle, why does everyone think this way? Heihachi theoretically could be his old man design, but I have a strong feeling he's out.
It's the same logic behind Spirits deconfirming. People feel that if a character gets into Smash at all, whatever role they're placed into is the role they'll be stuck in for that game. If you're in Smash, you're either playable, or you're non-playable. There's no grey area.

For characters like Heihachi, they could go with his old man design, yeah, but some people just feel that "Heihachi's a Mii costume, that's all he's gonna be for right now".
 

Captain Shwampy

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Kinda wish Horror games were more widely popular, as besides RE there isn't many that could be considered serious contenders for Smash. Shame, would love to see the likes of Isaac or Sebastian get in.
Dark Horse SEGA character

377fd15d756167b86b27a4a31e6ce41d.jpg
 
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Jomosensual

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To be fair, I don't think Heihachi is deconfirmed because he's a Mii Costume. I think he is deconfirmed for the remainder of Fighter's Pass Volume 2 because he was released after the lineup for Volume 2 was confirmed to be set.
This also is how I feel about Spirit Events that took place after Terry's reveal, as they confirmed that they were working on Volume 2 at that time.
I think base game Spirits and possibly even Mii Costumes could be fair game, but since FP7 was specifically NOT Spring Man, I'm placing Assist Trophies in the "very unlikely" category.
Agree with this. I think people take the deconfirmed stuff as too solid of a notion. Nobody ever said spirits, ATs, or Mii Costumes ruled out characters forever, it was just for pass 1. People still get mad and are fighting about it though.
 

N3ON

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Ya know, as much as people are dancing on the Spirits Fan Rule being dead, I noticed a lot of people instantly saying "F" for Heihachi.


Even though I 100% believe that Paid Mii costumes deconfirm, since, I mean c'mon, if we were getting Heihachi why wouldn't they save it for a Tekken bundle, why does everyone think this way? Heihachi theoretically could be his old man design, but I have a strong feeling he's out.
My belief, whether it be for Heihachi, or the Ubisoft costumes, or now the Bethesda one, is if we were to receive an actual character from that company (or, in Heihachi's case, were he yet to be revealed), the fact that they didn't release concurrently is a huge red flag. It's not like Capcom, where the quantity necessitates a release over multiple waves.

Obviously it's not a nail in the coffin, but I can't get behind the idea that it's a good sign. Which is funny, because, at least for Ubisoft, a lot of people are taking it as a positive. But... like... Rayman and the Rabbids releasing in different waves? Eeeeee... I don't think so.

Though I suppose this is under the provision that the characters do indeed end with this pass. If there are more to follow, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
 

Dinoman96

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I just hope that Spring Man wasn't shafted BECAUSE he was an Assist Trophy.
That would be a giant slap in the face to the entire Smash fanbase.
But I'll still be rooting for Shovel Knight and Waluigi.
I mean, Sakurai didn't mention him being an AT as a reason for his exclusion.

I just think it's because in the grand scheme of things, ARMS is a fresh new IP and Spring Man doesn't really have the 30+ years worth of legacy that the likes of Ryu and Terry do. Internally all the ARMS fighters are considered the main character so naturally Sakurai/Nintendo probably just didn't feel very compelled to work with the very basic and not hugely popular Spring Man when they had other, more interesting choices like Min Min (and Ninjara).
 
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Ben Holt

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It's the same logic behind Spirits deconfirming. People feel that if a character gets into Smash at all, whatever role they're placed into is the role they'll be stuck in for that game. If you're in Smash, you're either playable, or you're non-playable. There's no grey area.

For characters like Heihachi, they could go with his old man design, yeah, but some people just feel that "Heihachi's a Mii costume, that's all he's gonna be for right now".
It makes little sense to release Heihachi as a Mii Costume right now and release Heihachi later, as it has been confirmed that Volume 2's lineup has already been locked.
On the off chance we get DLC after Volume 2, then Heihachi is back on the table.
 

DevaAshera

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So, now that we were able to look at Min Min's alternate colours..what are your favorites?
These three happen to be mine.
minmin7.png minmin8.png minmin2.png
The first and third ones are kinda special for me. They coincidentally share the pastel pink, white, and blue colours of the Transgender Pride Flag and I happen to be a transgender woman (and the colours also happen to look great..I wouldn't choose them if they didn't) while the black & orange alt just looks cool (I tend to like black colours).
 
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Shroob

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My belief, whether it be for Heihachi, or the Ubisoft costumes, or now the Bethesda one, is if we were to receive an actual character from that company (or, in Heihachi's case, were he yet to be revealed), the fact that they didn't release concurrently is a huge red flag. It's not like Capcom, where the quantity necessitates a release over multiple waves.

Obviously it's not a nail in the coffin, but I can't get behind the idea that it's a good sign. Which is funny, because, at least for Ubisoft, a lot of people are taking it as a positive. But... like... Rayman and the Rabbids releasing in different waves? Eeeeee... I don't think so.

Though I suppose this is under the provision that the characters do indeed end with this pass. If there are more to follow, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Please

As much as I love this game

I don't think I could take another year or two after this. I'll be pushing 32.
 

Flik

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Maybe, just maybe, our Tekken rep will be someone else.


I mean, it's not like these are the main protagonist and main villain from now on...
 
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DevaAshera

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Please

As much as I love this game

I don't think I could take another year or two after this. I'll be pushing 32.
I could take this forever..and I just turned 32 a month and 2 days ago lol

Maybe, just maybe, our Tekken rep will be someone else.


I mean, it's not like these are the main protagonist and main villain for now on...
Not gonna lie, as much as I love Tekken, I wouldn't be excited for a Smash rep because I really don't like the Mishima bloodline characters..my favs are Lili, Asuka, and Alisa..none of whom they would choose over one of the Mishima Clan..
 
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N3ON

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Please

As much as I love this game

I don't think I could take another year or two after this. I'll be pushing 32.
Fwiw I think we're done after this pass. But Sakurai's statement about "at least five more characters" has given people something new to read too much into.

But frankly I didn't think I'd even be here this long, I thought Ultimate's DLC would be done by now.
 
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