Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SirBillyBob]

Aight, Imma head out. But before I do, just know....

You can change the future.

 

[N3ON]

I know Min-Min understandably took over discussion today

But I do actually have to ask 4 questions

1. The Crash game was officially revealed today, and it does show off some cool power-ups. A good amount of people (Including me) think he's kinda basic in terms of moveset, do you guys think perhaps some of the abilities in this New Crash game could have been told to Sakurai in a case that Crash is actually Playable in Smash

If Crash is in, the later he shows up in the pass, the more likely the new game will play a role in his implementation.

2. Between the Increasing amount of Western content (Fallout), along with things like Heihachi's costume coming back, Could Western Companies actually have a larger presense than japanesse Companies on the 3rd party front. could it also be the Opposite in that while Japanesse companies will lead in characters, Western Companies will lead in other content

It's possible, but both seem quite unlikely. Western IP is creeping in, but whether Rayman/Rabbids, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, indies, you're seeing it all be relatively sidelined. I think we can expect more western content to continue, and we might even get another western character, but I can't imagine the scales flip around instantly. Japanese IPs still clearly get preferential treatment when it comes to the roster.

3. Speaking of Heihachi, What's the status of a Fighting game character in this Pass? Arc systems has Kunio-Kun as Spirit but has not yet acknowledged Guilty Gear or Blazblue, their 2 biggest franchise. Do you think if Characters like Ragna and Sol were mii Costumes they would be put here? Could they also be represented in a pack of another 2D fighting game character, like Scorpion

Well I think Tekken had the best shot. Now I suppose it'd be something by ASW, but I wouldn't give those IPs more than a dark horse's shot. So overall another fighting game character seems less than likely. Unless I'm blanking on some huge (Japanese) franchise. Or they add another SF character.

And as far as Scorpion goes, I really really doubt it. MK is basically nonexistent in Japan. I wouldn't hold your breath.

4. Sakurai sidestepped the Assist Trophy Debate in this Presentation. People would say this make AT Upgrades unlikely, but could the opposite be true as well? if AT Upgrades were not happening at all in Smash Ultimate, would he have said it right then and there. by not speaking on it, is there an implication that there could actually be an upgrade, but it's not Spring Man

You can't really count on Sakurai to be candid. Sometimes he is, but usually he's not. So I think reading too much into what wasn't said is even more dangerous than reading too much into what was. I would say what happened earlier was certainly not a point in favour of ATs getting upgraded, but obviously that possibility can't be ruled out.

Good questions.

I think I may have misunderstood you. I thought you meant that third party companies would be a sort of "one and done" thing as far as getting characters/mii costumes go. You mentioned Heihachi, so I assumed you meant a Namco playable character isn't coming.

I would think Lloyd (or Yuri) would come with a bunch of Tales mii costumes in addition to Gil. There's a ton to choose from.

Ah, fair enough. That is sort of what I meant. For companies wherein I don't imagine they'd get a quantity that justifies being spread across multiple waves, I do think it'd be one-and-done, like Ubisoft and Bethesda. But other companies that have or probably will receive a larger amount, like Capcom, or Sega, or maybe Namco, it's a different story.

That said, I also believe that if a series gets a costume but not a character, it's probably not going to get a character in a future wave, as they'd presumably be released together. At least with the third-parties. So the Heihachi costume releasing now makes me thinks there's no Tekken character in the pipeline. But a different Namco character, who knows.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What's the status of a Fighting game character in this Pass?

You know.

I feel very confident that this pass will get a fighting game character.

 

[Himiko]

Honestly I think if people stop hating on Spring Man this conversation will stop. But it won't. This will go on for years I fear.

I'd atleast like to see people stop calling Spring Man "boring" or "generic". Did you not see the Smash trailer? Did you not see what a wacky guy he is? He's not Ryu.

He's boring to me. I'm really glad Min Min is the ARMS rep.

 

[N3ON]

I feel this is more based on aesthetics (female chinese fighting girl = female chinese fighting girl) not really on status, wasn’t Chun Li even cut (and then brought back) from SF at one point?

It's not. Ryu is the average, balanced, middle-of-the-road lead character - popular, but also surpassed in popularity by some other characters in the series, like Spring-Man, and Chun Li is one of the original characters (not counting SF1, which no one should) that originally had no more importance than any of the others, but became a breakout character for the series, arguably more popular than the lead, and rose through the ranks to basically become the deuteragonist, like Min Min. If you don't count Ribbon Girl, who would be the Ken. Their sex and ethnicity is incidental, but it lines up well.

And to my knowledge the only game Chun Li didn't show up in was the vanilla SF3, but that game cut everyone from the past games other than Ryu and Ken, so that doesn't exactly mean much.

 

[Himiko]

Welp, here's my ideal Fighter's Pass that's built around pushing hypothetical new releases. How'd you all feel about this timeline?
Min Min (ARMS 2)-We already know she's coming, so an ARMS sequel to accompany her would be nice. If COVID hadn't screwed everything up, I'm sure we would've gotten an ARMS 2 reveal alongside Min Min.
Bandana Waddle Dee (New Kirby game)-Ever since Triple Deluxe, Kirby's slipped into a comfortable alternating mainline/spinoff pattern, so this year should logically have a new Kirby game. Kirby's been fairly underrepresented, especially in the modern era, and Bandana Dee would be a good way to help out in that regard. As a plus for later down the line, he'd follow the mindset of sweet and simple, allowing for more time to be devoted to the later characters
Reimu Hakurei (Touhou ports)-Assuming the doujin leak is at least partially correct, Reimu would've been planned for the first slot, but COVID delayed her due to inability to talk with ZUN until things were sorted out. By that time, BWD could be squeezed in due to his simplicity, allowing for more cameos and Spirits. In the meantime, ZUN would heavily push Touhou on the Switch, with at the very least ports of AoCF and Goukyou Ibun. If we're going all out, the bring in a Nintendo-published compilation of Touhou shooters and a port of Hisoutensoku.
Isaac (Golden Sun Remake)-Isaac's a popular request, and Golden Sun is one of those games that needs a comeback. Isaac would be the first to break out of snowglobe hell, backed by a combined remake of the original Golden Sun and The Lost Age, like originally intended. Probably the biggest moment of the pass for the hardcore fans.
Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear ports)-What with Guilty Gear's gaining popularity and the Kunio-Kun Spirits, it would make sense to release Xrd and Strive on the Switch. Xrd would come first, being the game that defines Guilty Gear's style for the forseeable future, and is pretty much the definitive Guilty Gear at the moment. Strive would come later, as it tries to reinvent the series and is inevitably going to be divisive, but if it does well it would be a smart move to spread it to the growing Switch playerbase after introducing them to the series.
Sylux (Metroid Prime 4)-From the looks of it, MP4's coming soon-ish, but it's still a ways off. As Sylux is most likely going to be a major antagonist in some way, Sylux would make sense to give Metroid a push and keep it in the spotlight. Like Byleth, they'll be fairly contentious as the last character, a spot they occupy due to the time of their release. Hopefully, we can avoid turning Metroid into the next Fire Emblem, due to Sylux being the third character. If Sylux feels like a letdown for the last fighter, you can always pretend it ended with Sol.

Even though Touhou would be very cool, I think it is too optimistic to expect Reimu in smash. Also I ****ing love Kaguya, so a Touhou crossover without her being rep would make me a little bitter even if she has no chance anyway.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I know Min-Min understandably took over discussion today

But I do actually have to ask 4 questions

1. The Crash game was officially revealed today, and it does show off some cool power-ups. A good amount of people (Including me) think he's kinda basic in terms of moveset, do you guys think perhaps some of the abilities in this New Crash game could have been told to Sakurai in a case that Crash is actually Playable in Smash

2. Between the Increasing amount of Western content (Fallout), along with things like Heihachi's costume coming back, Could Western Companies actually have a larger presense than japanesse Companies on the 3rd party front. could it also be the Opposite in that while Japanesse companies will lead in characters, Western Companies will lead in other content

3. Speaking of Heihachi, What's the status of a Fighting game character in this Pass? Arc systems has Kunio-Kun as Spirit but has not yet acknowledged Guilty Gear or Blazblue, their 2 biggest franchise. Do you think if Characters like Ragna and Sol were mii Costumes they would be put here? Could they also be represented in a pack of another 2D fighting game character, like Scorpion

4. Sakurai sidestepped the Assist Trophy Debate in this Presentation. People would say this make AT Upgrades unlikely, but could the opposite be true as well? if AT Upgrades were not happening at all in Smash Ultimate, would he have said it right then and there. by not speaking on it, is there an implication that there could actually be an upgrade, but it's not Spring Man

1: I didn't see what the power ups specifically did beyond slowing down time and walking on walls so probably not

2: Being Western clearly wasn't as big of an issue as Sakurai assumed so maybe

3: I don't think we'd randomly get 2 Arc costumes for no reason, at most, I see Sol being playable bringing a Ragna costume or vice versa

4: I think that Sakurai mentioning his choice being Ninjara effectively means that Spring Man wasn't on the table to begin with, so probably not

 

[Opossum]

Spoiler

Her crusade against the Nabateans (who btw are basically a Jewish stand-in) says otherwise. What she says to Flayn is extremely racist on Church/VW.

Yeah I never thought I'd need to say this in the newcomer thread, but can we not say that the group of

Spoiler

clandestine shapeshifting lizard people who obfuscate human history to maintain the status quo

are a stand in for Jewish people? That's incredibly ****ing gross. :/

 

[AceAttorney9000]

4. Sakurai sidestepped the Assist Trophy Debate in this Presentation. People would say this make AT Upgrades unlikely, but could the opposite be true as well? if AT Upgrades were not happening at all in Smash Ultimate, would he have said it right then and there. by not speaking on it, is there an implication that there could actually be an upgrade, but it's not Spring Man

Sakurai not saying anything about Assist Trophies, despite this being a very appropriate opportunity to address the issue, neither helps nor hinders the Assist Trophy argument as far as I'm concerned. For now, the issue remains unresolved, and it will most likely stay that way for a while until Fighter 7.

 

[smashkirby]

Not to get all political.......but can we agree this is what Crash in Smash should look like?
View attachment 275859
And definitively not this?
View attachment 275862

I guess I'm the odd one out that would prefer a touched-up version of his Twinsanity design in Smash then, huh? Albeit with more expressions than just 'smiling zombie' of course.

Something I'd like to address on the matter of mascots and the status of Min Min and Spring Man. Like I said, we have no idea how things will go in the future for ARMS. But I want you all to pay attention to this. Even @pupNapoleon :

These are the two picture of Min Min's victory. Her Party Crash victory and her Smash Welcoming picture.

Spoiler: Pic 1

View attachment 275889

Spoiler: Pic 2

View attachment 275890

What do these picture have in common? Spring Man. These are Min Min's big moments but the ARMS team felt compelled to make Spring Man the biggest face in pic 1 and have him appear in the background in Pic 2.

I strongly believe that the ARMS team still see Spring Man as important. ARMS had two faces when it launched, Spring Man and Ribbon Girl. Min Min is obviously a new face but why does Spring Man have to lose that status when we know there can be two? I think Spring Man will still be a prominent figure in ARMS. This idea that Min Min will completely take over and Spring Man will be just one of the other guys is ridiculous to me. After all of Min Min's success they still felt the need to have Spring Man there. If they didn't care about him anymore why do that? Why draw him in the window? Why make his face so huge in the Party Crash pic? And this is after the fact. After the ARMS team knew how popular Min Min is.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on this whole thing. For as much as I wanted Spring Man, I had no issue with any other ARMS characters getting in before him, Min Min included. That said, I don't see this as Spring Man totally losing his mascot status just because Min Min is the one who's playable. At least, I hope that wouldn't be the case.

Yeah that's quite possible. I just don't see them removing Spring Man's mascot status completely like Dimitri. If there's ever another character from ARMS making an appearance in something it will be Spring Man. I think a better comparison is Isabelle and Tom Nook. Isabelle is the favorite and the mascot but if you think Nook is not one of the most significant characters in Animal Crossing then I don't know what to tell ya! XD I know he's not in Smash but that really doesn't matter. And that's kind of what I mean when I talk about Smash influencing things. Tom Nook not being in there doesn't mean he lost his big league AC character status.

The perfect comparison.

What will most likely happen moving foward is that Spring Man will remain being the Central/male mascot while Min Min usurps Ribbon Girl as the Female mascot.

Yeah, not going to lie... THIS I kind of see happening more than Min Min suddenly replacing Spring Man as ARMS's mascot. Not that I dislike Ribbon Girl or anything.

I stand by the comparison I made months ago that Spring-Man is Ryu and Min Min is Chun Li.

Hmm... yeah. Seems about accurate.

 

[Ben Holt]

Yeah I never thought I'd need to say this in the newcomer thread, but can we not say that the group of

Spoiler

clandestine shapeshifting lizard people who obfuscate human history to maintain the status quo

are a stand in for Jewish people? That's incredibly ****ing gross. :/

Whoa? What the ****?! This NOT ok!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Spoiler

Her crusade against the Nabateans (who btw are basically a Jewish stand-in) says otherwise. What she says to Flayn is extremely racist on Church/VW.

I think this says less about Edelgard's views on the church and more on your views of Jewish people...

But I'll hear you out. Why do you think they're a stand in for Jewish people? Is it because they've

Spoiler

experienced mass genocide?

If so... that's... not a great comparison..... and it has a lot of unfortunate implications considering the stuff the church does.

EDIT:

For the record CosmicB, I don't think you said this maliciously or in an effort to hurt or insult anybody. You even used it to show that racism is bad.

It's just a big foot in your mouth moment. Gotta be careful with those kinds of comparisons.

 

[cosmicB]

Uh, I'm Jewish. My grandparents are literally Dachau survivors.

Fire Emblem Three Houses all routes spoilers:

Spoiler

The treatment of the Nabateans is literally a "shadowy lizard people controlling the world from behind the scenes" antisemitic conspiracy theory, and Edelgard uses the same dehumanizing language against them as you would expect. It's fantastic racism based on reality and it's not okay. Crimson Flower is a complete and utter rejection of the Nabateans as a people and it's messed up for someone like me that identifies with them.

Is this really a discussion for the speculation thread?

Edit: If anyone wants to discuss this more, it will have to be done elsewhere. I don't want to be misunderstood here and be seen as saying the opposite of what I'm actually saying.

 

[---]

Not sure how the subject of genocide came up in this thread but it's pretty clear that it needs to stop.

Will do a review shortly. I would assume that since it's late at night this thread is moving slow enough that it doesn't need to be locked.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Uh, I'm Jewish. My grandparents are literally Dachau survivors.

Spoiler

The treatment of the Nabateans is literally a "shadowy lizard people controlling the world from behind the scenes" antisemitic conspiracy theory, and Edelgard uses the same dehumanizing language against them as you would expect. It's fantastic racism based on reality and it's not okay.

Is this really a discussion for the speculation thread?

Okay. I see where you're coming from.

I don't agree with the comparison, but I getcha.

Let's move on.




If another ARMS character were to be included, would they be a semi clone of Min Min due to her unique control scheme?

I imagine another one would be like Min Min but with different ARMS and affects.

 

[N3ON]

The worse crime is talking about FE again the day after an unrelated character reveal.



That’s not the worse crime don’t infract me

 

[Speed Weed]

Nah, Dig Dug's way more of a chad.

pfffffft....

amateur.

Spoiler

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One thing has me curious, all the premium (where the classification is that the Mii's head is replaced) Mii costumes are from Western series.

I wonder if Japanese companies had more of an issue with their characters appearing but not really and stuck to the standard costumes.

Because Vault Boy especially could have just been the body and then a toupee.

 

[7NATOR]

One thing has me curious, all the premium (where the classification is that the Mii's head is replaced) Mii costumes are from Western series.

I wonder if Japanese companies had more of an issue with their characters appearing but not really and stuck to the standard costumes.

Because Vault Boy especially could have just been the body and then a toupee.

Depends how it's looked at. Perhaps the Pass is still gonna focus on Japanesse owned characters, so Western characters in exchange get the bigger Mii Costumes.

If Western Characters are gonna be more of a thing in this pass however, It could just because The West just has more material for the more popular characters and such, or it's just a Symptom of this Pass being more Western focused

 

[Shroob]

Depends how it's looked at. Perhaps the Pass is still gonna focus on Japanesse owned characters, so Western characters in exchange get the bigger Mii Costumes.

If Western Characters are gonna be more of a thing in this pass however, It could just because The West just has more material for the more popular characters and such, or it's just a Symptom of this Pass being more Western focused

Now can Mii Swordfighter get one?


Cause like

Mii Gunner's cool and all but


Plz

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well, that was obviously bull****. Spring Man was the first character shown in the trailer AND in Min Min's Smash Artwork, you can see Spring Man in the window knowing he got robbed.
They knew. Lol.

They definitely knew. Which is why Sakurai gave, like, three different "reasons" why it WASN'T Spring Man.

Sometimes this community is just so strange.

Creator of ARMS: "Spring Man is not more important than any other character."
Community: You don't know what you're talking about- Spring Man is everything.

Well considering the creator said every ARMS character is a protagonists. Even though some of them are clearly ANtagonists, I'm going to go ahead and say the community is right. He DOESN'T know what he's talking about.

Smash is the series that will determine how ARMS will be seen.

Now this I WOULD believe. That Min Min becomes the ARMS mascot going forward BECAUSE she's the one in Smash.

Not to get all political.......but can we agree this is what Crash in Smash should look like?
And definitively not this?

I don't agree he should even be in Smash. But if he was gonna be, yeah, his Crash 4 look is clearly his best one yet.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if they were just talking about base game characters with that "oops all protagonists" statement. Dr Coyle and Springtron definitely play an antagonistic role.

Unless the story is "the world will finally appreciate my true genius!" and the antagonist is Max Brass for whatever happened in their past.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel the "all protagonists" were more referring to how the playable ones in Story Mode can easily be treated as a proper protagonist.

Basically feels like an odd translation. As the whole cast isn't just protagonists as is. Some don't have that option.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I feel the "all protagonists" were more referring to how the playable ones in Story Mode can easily be treated as a proper protagonist.

Sure, but that means every fighting game character ever counts as a protagonist now.

Sakurai: "We've decided to add Ganryu from Tekken. Harada said they're all protagonists. So it's fine."

Dimitri's signature attack, Midnight Bliss, changes the opponent temporarily into the opposite gender

Eh, not exactly. He turns everyone into maidens. So he turns the men into women, and the women into...less dangerous women.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wonder if they were just talking about base game characters with that "oops all protagonists" statement. Dr Coyle and Springtron definitely play an antagonistic role.

Unless the story is "the world will finally appreciate my true genius!" and the antagonist is Max Brass for whatever happened in their past.

I think a better way to understand it would be that ARMS has no main characters.

 

[Shroob]

Even though it's still early to talk about the next character since, well, Min Min isn't even out yet


I'm really curious how the releases going forward will be from now on.


The first pass had a 4 month gap between release and Joker, and once Joker came out, the characters were a consistent 2-3 months apart from one another(April > July > September > November > January). Even with the Pandemic, they haven't changed their final end date, meaning, at least from what I wager, they're confident that they'll finish 5 more characters in a year and a half, which does seem reasonable.


I 'personally' feel like our next character will come out around September/October, but I have no idea if that'll be the last character of the year and they'll have 4 in 2021, or what.

 

[Heoj]

Oh boy, seeing people expecting Geno. Have you guys not learn your lesson from the past two years already? Ain't happening.

Yikes, no need to be rude about it

I wonder how long it will be before we get another announcement/reveal?

I’m going to say put Rex & Pyra back on the table, and I am more confident than ever that we are probably going to get a Gen. VIII Pokémon.

I still think Namco deserves another character though, but maybe they are just content with Pac-Man.

I’ll propose this; List 10 Characters you think we could potential see as Fighters for the remainder of this Fighter’s Pass. There’s only 5 left so you get double the chance to guess correctly.

I’ll start.
1. Rex & Pyra/Mythra
2. Generation VIII Pokémon
3. Euden
4. Paper Mario
5. Ryu Hayabusa
6. Tales of Character
7. KOS-MOS (Namco puts her in a lot of crossovers.)
8. Akira (Astral Chain)
9. Sora
10. Geno

for me it would be :
1. Geno
2. Rex & Pyra/Mythra
3. Travis Touchdown
4. Sora
5. Phoenix Wright
6. Monster Hunter character
7. Sol Badguy
8. Rayman
9. Crash
10. Ryu Hayabusa

 

[CosmicQuark]

I feel like the explanation that “everyone is a protagonist” rang a bit hollow to me personally. If Spring Man isn’t the protagonist, a) why was Spring Man chosen as the first character to rep the series as an assist back when no ARMS character was considered to be playable and that was going to be the only representation, b) why was Spring Man the most prominent character shown in Min Min’s trailer, being first in their full attire and even having voice lines, c) why is the stage Spring Stadium? If all the characters are protagonist that logic should extend to their stages being equally valid, and Min Min being the character but Spring Stadium being the stage is just weird. It seems like everything in Smash except the playable character implies Spring Man is the main character—each one individually not meaning much, but taken together heavily imply it. I’m just not personally a fan of that mixed messaging.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel like the explanation that “everyone is a protagonist” rang a bit hollow to me personally. If Spring Man isn’t the protagonist, a) why was Spring Man chosen as the first character to rep the series as an assist back when no ARMS character was considered to be playable and that was going to be the only representation, b) why was Spring Man the most prominent character shown in Min Min’s trailer, being first in their full attire and even having voice lines, c) why is the stage Spring Stadium? If all the characters are protagonist that logic should extend to their stages being equally valid, and Min Min being the character but Spring Stadium being the stage is just weird. It seems like everything in Smash except the playable character implies Spring Man is the main character—each one individually not meaning much, but taken together heavily imply it. I’m just not personally a fan of that mixed messaging.

...Spring Man's one of the two mascots. He was at least thought of having a protagonist role in a Graphic Novel. Sakurai even noted a lot of people think he's the main protagonist too, and he may have believed that, but it's clear he understands the series doesn't have a set protagonist after talking with the creator.

It's just that ARMS, the game itself, is not meant to have its own specific protagonist in the story.

Most fighting games have an actual straight story. ARMS simply doesn't. That's why there's no set protagonist. It's clear the Creator doesn't want it to be that way. And there's nothing wrong with that. This isn't Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter. It's a unique fighting game that has a different kind of story where you can have practically any protagonist. Another issue is trying to make Tournament Mode and Story Mode the same thing leads to this kind of issue. They're often separated in Fighting games so the story is very clear on how is a main character and whatnot. ARMS doesn't follow that logic and isn't trying to really set a clear role for members of the cast. The only thing it has at least is some cannot be protagonists at all(due to being Non-Playable in Story/Tournament Mode).

I agree it's a cop-out to a degree, and I'd honestly say this already destroyed the protagonist/mascot first rule. Same with the main character rule. But ARMS is also an anomaly where it has no main character and since it didn't use the mascot, it pretty much stands out too. Then again, Pokemon stood out for having its mascot instead of a protagonist first, so.

 

[Shroob]

I feel like the explanation that “everyone is a protagonist” rang a bit hollow to me personally. If Spring Man isn’t the protagonist, a) why was Spring Man chosen as the first character to rep the series as an assist back when no ARMS character was considered to be playable and that was going to be the only representation, b) why was Spring Man the most prominent character shown in Min Min’s trailer, being first in their full attire and even having voice lines, c) why is the stage Spring Stadium? If all the characters are protagonist that logic should extend to their stages being equally valid, and Min Min being the character but Spring Stadium being the stage is just weird. It seems like everything in Smash except the playable character implies Spring Man is the main character—each one individually not meaning much, but taken together heavily imply it. I’m just not personally a fan of that mixed messaging.

I get the logic, though I do feel like it was very carefully worded, especially since Sakurai admits he had considered Ninjara(Or was it Kid Cobra, forgot), while making it seem like Spring was never on the table at all.


Springman's the mascot
Everyone's the protagonist
So in turn, while everyone's the protagonist, they didn't pick the mascot


I personally find his comment about just who he considered, making no mention of Spring Man or Ribbon Girl outside of the "Isn't Spring Man the protagonist?" comment, to be telling, but if this is the story they're going with, eh, whatever.

 

[Chaosmaster8753]

One thing has me curious, all the premium (where the classification is that the Mii's head is replaced) Mii costumes are from Western series.

I wonder if Japanese companies had more of an issue with their characters appearing but not really and stuck to the standard costumes.

Because Vault Boy especially could have just been the body and then a toupee.

Altair and Rabbid are more in line with regular Mii Fighter costumes.

 

[Aetheri]

I think for Min Min being in Smash, the comparison is probably closer to that of say Cloud than it is for fighting game characters.

Final Fantasy had a bunch of different characters they could've chosen many of which are the main protagonists of their respective games but instead of going with the more 'appropriate' characters that represent the series as a whole they went with the most popular choice. Cloud isn't really viewed as the mascot of the Final Fantasy series he's literally one of the most popular characters. Of course the big difference is that unlike in Final Fantasy, each Arms character isn't the lead in their own game. I suppose you could make a similar comparison to Hero and Dragon Quest. Multiple protagonists, playable character(s) in Smash are not the mascots of the series.

 

[Shroob]

I think for Min Min being in Smash, the comparison is probably closer to that of say Cloud than it is for fighting game characters.

Final Fantasy had a bunch of different characters they could've chosen many of which are the main protagonists of their respective games but instead of going with the more 'appropriate' characters that represent the series as a whole they went with the most popular choice. Cloud isn't really viewed as the mascot of the Final Fantasy series he's literally one of the most popular characters. Of course the big difference is that unlike in Final Fantasy, each Arms character isn't the lead in their own game. I suppose you could make a similar comparison to Hero and Dragon Quest. Multiple protagonists, playable character(s) in Smash are not the mascots of the series.

I dunno if Cloud Strife, Mr.JRPG himself, is a good comparison. I'd argue a LOT of people consider Cloud the mascot of FF.

 

[Ben Holt]

I dunno if Cloud Strife, Mr.JRPG himself, is a good comparison. I'd argue a LOT of people consider Cloud the mascot of FF.

Chokobo. But that's a Red / Pikachu thing.

 

[Shroob]

Chokobo. But that's a Red / Pikachu thing.

Chocobo has the mascot appeal like Slime or Jack Frost of Dragon Quest or SMT respectively yes.


But you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't recognize Cloud, he's just that iconic. When someone kinda 'becomes' the face of a series, I'd argue that's mascot status.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The reason everyone's a protagonist is because the story flatout does not exist in ARMS. Even Mario 1 had more plot than ARMS

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Cloud never screamed "Final Fantasy" as a whole to me, just FFVII specifically. He's become that game's mascot, but Chocobo/Moogle are the franchise's overall mascots combined.

Plus, franchises can have more than one kind of mascot. Some are more game-specific while others cover the whole franchise.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I'm really not seeing why this protagonist thing is a debate.

Like, say a baker bakes a dozen cookies and presents them informing you they are all from the same batch with the same ingredients. And then someone shouts "NO! That cookie there was sitting on top of some others and it is slightly bigger. I think I even see more chocolate chips in it!"

Clearly, Yabuki and Sakurai have stated that Min Min is one of many protagonists in the game. So what is the point of arguing about how wrong they are?

 

[WaddleMatt]

I'm really not seeing why this protagonist thing is a debate.

Like, say a baker bakes a dozen cookies and presents them informing you they are all from the same batch with the same ingredients. And then someone shouts "NO! That cookie there was sitting on top of some others and it is slightly bigger. I think I even see more chocolate chips in it!"

Clearly, Yabuki and Sakurai have stated that Min Min is one of many protagonists in the game. So what is the point of arguing about how wrong they are?

Yea I agree, they are the ones making the game not us lol I will trust and take what a developer says over any fan rules.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Cloud is most assuredly not the mascot of FF. That would go to Chocobo and Moogles. Of the two, Chocobos are more prevalent having their own game series and even being used at the company level as a mascot, alongside DQ's Slime.

Even among other FF protagonists, Cloud more or less enjoys being from the most popular title but doesn't get much greater billing than that when they're all put together.