Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Aren't those just normal cross-ups though? For accuracy, you could tweak it so that he has a different hit animation when crossed-up.

No, you can actually move to the side, without doing any attacks, and the foe doesn't budge unless they follow along.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So people that know stuff about negotiations and such, Do you think the idea of a Super Smash Bros Collection is possible. 64 and Melee should be fine since there's only Nintendo characters, but Brawl, Smash 4, and Ultimate all have 3rd parties. I know games like Soul Caliber 2 were able to be re-released with guests (well 2/3), but how feasible is it for Smash?

Super Smash Bros. Brawl would probably be fine as well with the one change of Metal Gear's series emblem (which is a very small change).

Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U would be more difficult because of Cloud, and it probably wouldn't be in the collection regardless due to their age.

No, you can actually move to the side, without doing any attacks, and the foe doesn't budge unless they follow along.

???

Oh you mean that you could sidestep around the character until they have their back toward you? Does it auto-correct when they attack in this scenario?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

???

Oh you mean that you could sidestep around the character until they have their back toward you?

Yes, that's what I mean.

Does it auto-correct when they attack in this scenario?

It does not.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So people that know stuff about negotiations and such, Do you think the idea of a Super Smash Bros Collection is possible. 64 and Melee should be fine since there's only Nintendo characters, but Brawl, Smash 4, and Ultimate all have 3rd parties. I know games like Soul Caliber 2 were able to be re-released with guests (well 2/3), but how feasible is it for Smash?

They'd probably ask for more money because it's technically three games' worth of licensing fees (for Sega and Konami at least). It's not impossible for it to happen if Nintendo was willing to fork over the cash, nothing's really changed between Nintendo and any of the third parties where the relationship has soured and new licensing agreements aren't on the table.

But it would still be kind of an expensive undertaking, especially for a product with dubious commercial viability. Maybe in the post Smash 4 or post Smash 6 eras it makes sense, but right now the current game has all of the characters, so you'd basically be asking people to pay premium price for, what, two adventure modes, Smash Run and a bunch of other modes, with outdated graphics? I don't see many people buying that.

 

[SKX31]

They'd probably ask for more money because it's technically three games' worth of licensing fees (for Sega and Konami at least). It's not impossible for it to happen if Nintendo was willing to fork over the cash, nothing's really changed between Nintendo and any of the third parties where the relationship has soured and new licensing agreements aren't on the table.

But it would still be kind of an expensive undertaking, especially for a product with dubious commercial viability. Maybe in the post Smash 4 or post Smash 6 eras it makes sense, but right now the current game has all of the characters, so you'd basically be asking people to pay premium price for, what, two adventure modes, Smash Run and a bunch of other modes, with outdated graphics? I don't see many people buying that.

To play Devil's Advocate: there is some real demand for a Melee re-release (albeit people would be vary of the plasma / CRT difference as well as Nintendo's online compared to say Dolphin). Because Melee is really expensive to get into nowadays - a re-release via the collection would help remedy that. I could see 64 and Brawl too: 64 still has a decently active competitive scene and they would also welcome online play (albeit, again, they'd be vary of Nintendo's online) while in Brawl's case I feel most would be interested in returning to Subspace and perhaps screwing around with online again.

I do agree that such a collection is going to be more worth it down the line (especially if CRTs start to become even rarer), I'm saying that such a collection - if released right now - would have a smaller but still noticeable audience.

(One issue Melee has for example is that dashing back is too precise, inconsistent and controller-dependent. A re-release would at least help fix the last point.)

 

[Perkilator]

So people that know stuff about negotiations and such, Do you think the idea of a Super Smash Bros Collection is possible. 64 and Melee should be fine since there's only Nintendo characters, but Brawl, Smash 4, and Ultimate all have 3rd parties. I know games like Soul Caliber 2 were able to be re-released with guests (well 2/3), but how feasible is it for Smash?

At most, I can only see the first three games.

 

[Phoenixio]

To play Devil's Advocate: there is some real demand for a Melee re-release

There's some demand, but by how many people? The Melee competitive community is tiny. Would they even sell a hundred copies to those people? A thousand maybe?

In the meantime, most casual, and even pros, are fine with Ultimate, and it sold millions of copies. Most of these would see no reason to go back to older versions with crappier graphics, content, and gameplay.

With how iterative Smash is as a franchise, I doubt a lot of people would see interest in going back. Every new version pretty much erases everything that's been done before.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Melee competitive community is tiny. Would they even sell a hundred copies to those people?

Uh. It's not that small. Dunno how big it is, but there's definitely more than 100 people involved.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Uh. It's not that small. Dunno how big it is, but there's definitely more than 100 people involved.

Either way, it'd probably take more money to do the Melee re-release than they'd make money selling it, so it's not worth doing.

 

[SKX31]

There's so demand, but by how many people? The Melee competitive community is tiny. Would they even sell a hundred copies to those people? A thousand maybe?

In the meantime, most casual, and even pros, are fine with Ultimate, and it sold millions of copies. Most of these would see no reason to go back to older versions with crappier graphics, content, and gameplay.

With how iterative Smash is as a franchise, I doubt a lot of people would see interest in going back. Every new version pretty much erases everything that's been done before.

The Melee scene is still going decently strong - it still has 10 000+ viewers regularily (with Pound 2019 peaking at 79 000 on Twitch), and active communities. The recent Youtube video "Is Melee a Good Game?" by Melee Youtuber AsumSaus clocked in at 200K. And a lot of Melee pros still stick by it - Armada, Mango, HBox etc. because the "Melee / newer Smash game" divide still exists. Yeah, Ultimate's larger (and kinda ate away at that divide, but not fully), but Melee is not dead in the slightest.

The biggest resistance to going back comes from Nintendo - especially since they haven't re-released smaller franchises like F-Zero at all. The number of people interested in going back isn't going to be as large, no - but that didn't prevent SNK from re-releasing old KOF or SamSho games on the Switch.

 

[Idon]

The Melee competitive community is tiny.

Tiny, you say?


For not being included at the last EVO, zero company support, and going on almost 2 decades, it's pretty darn healthy.

I imagine a simple port of a gamecube game would be an obvious low cost, high return peoject ala every single other fighting game port every other game company has done.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So Bloodborne was still a no show at the Future Games show. And a dev tweeted this:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Cosmic77]

Smash isn't really a series with games you want to remake. You can add on to them, but a remake makes very little sense. There's less content, almost everything exists in newer games, and there's no guarantee the controls would transfer over seamlessly.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Smash isn't really a series with games you want to remake. You can add on to them, but a remake makes very little sense. There's less content, almost everything exists in newer games, and there's no guarantee the controls would transfer over seamlessly.

Re-releases would be fine I think.

 

[SvartWolf]

the only thing i want from pokemon is a non gen 1 non humanoid pokemon... the list is like super big.


AAAAAND i really feel that Dragapult would be an amnazing and unique adition.

 

[Will]

Smash remake? That's just making Ultimate but deliberately cutting down its roster. I'm not that desperate for Adventure Mode to come back.

Melee on Switch would probably sell like hotcakes though, it might even revive the competitive scene. Though, that's implying they will ever do it.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

All the characters I feel has the highest chances currently.

Cinderace
Crash Bandicoot
Geno
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Master Chief
Rayman
Rex
Ryu Hayabusa
Sol Badguy (Chances has increased given Spirit Event regarding Arc System)
Sora
Spring Man
Steve
Travis Touchdown
Waluigi

Anyone you guys think I could be missing?

I’d say this is a good group of the most consistently talked about characters. However, as we saw with the previous pass, only one or two will make in the pass off this list.

Funny enough, as much as it doesn’t make sense, I just have this strange feeling Waluigi will be one of them as a reaction to the outcry after the 2018 E3. Not sure how it will work with what spirits and music Waluigi would bring. Like I said it is illogical, but I can’t shake the feeling he is coming.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I
Seeing Luxray (and Hydreigon) in the Top 30 made my day, it's really nice to see it get recognition.

Now if only TCPi would promote it...

I know, right? And out of curiosity, which Pokemon would you say is your top favorite, again? I've long been able to tell that Luxray is somewhere high on your list.

And agreed. It's gotten plenty of spotlights in the anime, at least, so there's that. It just doesn't get much promotion on other fronts. I'm glad it got all this recognition from the fans. Going off an earlier topic concerning Pokemon here, Luxray might not have been made as "mascot" material, but I think it could've easily fallen into that territory if the creators actually tried to go that route from the get-go. And the poll is solid proof that it really is one of the most popular ones out there anyway.

I'm pretty content knowing Luxray placed so highly and is that well-liked, but I hope this means good things for it's future. Maybe it'll get a regional form later or something. I can't actually imagine it getting anywhere near-close to joining Smash, that's more of a pipe-dream of mine (it would be wonderful to see), but seeing it be more involved with spin-offs and other supplementary material would be more than welcome, too. Same goes for any other updates and promotions in may get in the mainline games. I just love this Pokemon a lot. I wouldn't call it my favorite for nothing, after all.

 

[Will]

My favorite Pokemon are Spiritomb and . They had no chance from the start.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I got really close to my favorite Pokemon so I'm happy.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

My question, is how many people would want to revisit Melee for any reason other than to play the game in a highly competitive scene with a better soundfont and graphics.

I'm no marketing expert, but with another Smash game already on the scene, one that has it's own unique and well-balanced physics and combat system, one that's still being updated (as of now and for quite a while to come, anyway) one that packs more content than any of it's predecessors, and one that will likely keep going strong for all of those reasons, what reason would a majority of people have to buy a simple Melee remake that would likely just be a carbon copy of the original?

 

[-crump-]

Melee HD wouldn’t sell as much as Ultimate, but I feel like yall are underestimating just how crazy people are for Smash Bros, even those who aren’t in the competitive scene. If Nintendo made a remaster with the same visual style from the GameCube and brought back all the modes, trophies, and such they would make plenty of nostalgia money on top of the esports scene.

Honestly the biggest problem with a new version of Melee is that Nintendo would almost certainly try and rebalance it. Change characters too much or get rid of advanced tech and many competitive players will just stick with Netplay and CRTs. They could probably get away with making characters like Bowser and Kirby less terrible, but touch Fox with a ten foot pole and it’ll ignite some controversy.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Smash isn't really a series with games you want to remake. You can add on to them, but a remake makes very little sense. There's less content, almost everything exists in newer games, and there's no guarantee the controls would transfer over seamlessly.

The only way I see a remake working is if the next Super Smash Bros. game was a reimagining of Super Smash Bros. on the Nintendo 64 complete with full redesigns for characters where applicable (characters like Captain Falcon don't need one), Battlefield, Final Destination, and Meta Crystal as normally selectable stages, and the inclusion of Bowser, King Dedede, Marth, and Mewtwo. This game is cheaper than a normal Super Smash Bros. game, and comes with the promise of more content down the line. 1st party veterans that don't receive a rework, returning stages, and new modes are free, 3rd party veterans, veterans that receive an overhaul, newcomers, new stages, and new character costumes are paid.

This helps solve the issue of huge roster cuts since it both guises as a remake, and also promises much more content later on. It would still do worse than Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is doing, but i do think it would be a way to salvage the next game should Super Smash Bros. Ultimate+ not be a feasible thing.

EDIT: Either that or do what I describe, but instead of all the DLC content, let the players know that this game's profits will be used to fund the next "actual" installment in the series that they're developing right now. You could even call it a demo if you were bold enough.

Honestly the biggest problem with a new version of Melee is that Nintendo would almost certainly try and rebalance it. Change characters too much or get rid of advanced tech and many competitive players will just stick with Netplay and CRTs.

Oh yeah. If they make any balance changes, they would also need to have a 1-1 mode. If such a feature did not exist, the competitive community wouldn't so much as look at it.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I got really close to my favorite Pokemon so I'm happy.

Yeah! I like Ivysaur! Just wish Pokemon Trainer didn't switch out Ivysaur everytime it gets KO'd!

 

[SKX31]

Smash isn't really a series with games you want to remake. You can add on to them, but a remake makes very little sense. There's less content, almost everything existed in previous games, and there's no guarantee the controls would transfer over seamlessly.

I'd pay mad dollar for a Melee re-release.

And not just because I grew up on Melee and will defend it for the rest of eternity. I know it's not perfect, but I've mentioned my competitive viewpoint a lot for a reason.

Preferring more content and such is perfectly fine, but if you ever wonder why Melee fans stick to it no matter what... well, it is one of those games (Like its contemporaries MvC2 and StarCraft Brood War) where it's absurdly deep and explorable to near-insanity. Melee has deeper mechanics that allow for crazier stuff, while Ultimate's less controlller-dependent and has stronger balancing. I have lots of fun watching both games, even if I personally enjoy watching Melee a bit more.

Oh yeah. If they make any balance changes, they would also need to have a 1-1 mode. If such a feature did not exist, the competitive community wouldn't so much as look at it.

Blizzard made sure that they didn't touch balancing at all with StarCraft I's remaster, and that's a good thing when the games have been played for ca. 20 years. I agree with -crump- generally: but if Nintendo's going to go that route there are at least a couple characters who could use a lookover (Roy has attacks that straight up don't work in Melee, G&W has a worthless shield and no way to cancel his aerials unlike the rest of the cast. Oh and Yoshi's grab has a severe blind spot).

 

[Will]

They could probably get away with making characters like Bowser and Kirby less terrible, but touch Fox with a ten foot pole and it’ll ignite some controversy.

noooooooooo what do you mean shine is frame 2 now oh my god #meleeruined

They could fix some actual bugs and things untouched like Game & Watch's shield or Luigi/Roy's dash attack.

 

[Simplythe1]

All I ask for in this pass is for Spring Man, Rex & Pyra, and Travis Touchdown(I also would jump with joy if Quote, Adol, and or Laharl were to be added but I shouldn't push my luck with niche picks after getting Erdrick)

Those are my main three wants, and I hope these fantastic characters get their time to shine

 

[PeridotGX]

My top 5 favorite Pokemon and why they didn't get in Smash:

Cursola - It's too busy being a victim of global warming, also too new and weirdly shaped.
Typhlosion - Melee's develpopment was messed up and HGSS was old news by the time Smash 4 rolled around.
Decidueye - Incineroar suplexed it so hard it was banished to Pokken.
Sceptile - RSE was old news when Brawl released, and Sakurai didn't feel like adding it in Smash 4 DLC
Reshiram - It, not unlike Ridley, was too big.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Favorite Pokémon? There is a decent chance that pretty much anyone could guess my favorite Pokémon from generation 1-5 (and then knowing my favorites from those generations, will guess incredibly incorrectly as to what my favorite gen 6 Pokémon is).

but if Nintendo's going to go that route there are at least a couple characters who could use a lookover (Roy has attacks that straight up don't work in Melee, G&W has a worthless shield and no way to cancel his aerials unlike the rest of the cast. Oh and Yoshi's grab has a severe blind spot).

Yeah, I could see those types of changes working. Mostly because they wouldn't effect the competitive part of the game in the slightest, but they'd work nonetheless. They could probably also get away with fixing Pokémon Stadium's collision glitches since the competitive community hates jank with a passion, and this would remove the jank.

I'd still say that directly buffing the game's irrelevant characters would be a bad idea due to the fact that the competitive community would most likely drop the game if any of the mid or low tiers became viable in a way that people didn't like.

 

[TTF]

I’d say this is a good group of the most consistently talked about characters. However, as we saw with the previous pass, only one or two will make in the pass off this list.

Funny enough, as much as it doesn’t make sense, I just have this strange feeling Waluigi will be one of them as a reaction to the outcry after the 2018 E3. Not sure how it will work with what spirits and music Waluigi would bring. Like I said it is illogical, but I can’t shake the feeling he is coming.

If Waluigi does make it in I can easily see him as either the fighter #11 in the pass, or be like Piranha Plant as a bonus dlc but as the last one as a way to say, "He may have been last, but at least he FINALLY made it to be playable."

 

[Deleted member]

Favourite Pokemon with no chance in hell of getting into Smash?

Spoiler: It’s probably obvious......

Second favourite Pokemon that maaaaaayyyyybe has a more realistic chance?

Spoiler

 

[CosmicQuark]

I highly doubt Nintendo would re-release or re-make Melee in HD, as it would need a much higher demand for all that effort, the only thing I could see happening is an old Smash game coming in its completely original form (barely altered) for a VC/Nintendo Online type of release. Those that want it tend to be in competitive play, or watching competitions, and you'd need a large casual market that wants it, not a niche within a niche audience, which is why it likely won't happen. When average people mention their favorite Smash games, it usually comes down to the characters that are in it, or big gameplay features like Subspace, not granular features like wavedashing. Though, there may be some that have a fondness for the Gamecube era, and I could be underestimating their numbers, but Melee would be low on the list of nostalgic Gamecube games to bring back for all the reasons mentioned. Nintendo generally doesn't care much about the competitive scene, and if they were to alter and re-release Melee in some form, whether it helps competitive or not would not be any one of their goals. If anything, they'd slow it down to make it more casual-friendly.

 

[SKX31]

Yeah, I could see those types of changes working. Mostly because they wouldn't effect the competitive part of the game in the slightest, but they'd work nonetheless. They could probably also get away with fixing Pokémon Stadium's collision glitches since the competitive community hates jank with a passion, and this would remove the jank.

I'd still say that directly buffing the game's irrelevant characters would be a bad idea due to the fact that the competitive community would most likely drop the game if any of the mid or low tiers became viable in a way that people didn't like.

Agreed generally - I'm of two minds regarding the Pokemon Stadium jank. On one hand, yeah fix that jank:

But then there are moments of absolute beauty:

And as for the favorite Pokemon-with-no-chance-of-getting-in? Kadabra / Alakazam. Always loved using Psychic with them in the Pokemon Stadium games, so yeah, it's favorite due to nostalgia.

 

[toonito]

My favorite Pokemon are Spiritomb and . They had no chance from the start.

My favorite pokemon is already in ( ) and even though I prefer transformation characters separate I actually prefer Charizard as part of

 

[ZephyrZ]

I have too many "favorite" pokemon to count. But my current favorite is Dreepy.

Regardless though I could live without a new pokemon rep, even if I'd like one. and are all I need.

 

[GoodGrief741]

My favorite Pokémon are Diglett and Chandelure and I'd be satisfied with a Pokéball summon. Pokken was already huge for me.

To play Devil's Advocate: there is some real demand for a Melee re-release (albeit people would be vary of the plasma / CRT difference as well as Nintendo's online compared to say Dolphin). Because Melee is really expensive to get into nowadays - a re-release via the collection would help remedy that. I could see 64 and Brawl too: 64 still has a decently active competitive scene and they would also welcome online play (albeit, again, they'd be vary of Nintendo's online) while in Brawl's case I feel most would be interested in returning to Subspace and perhaps screwing around with online again.

I do agree that such a collection is going to be more worth it down the line (especially if CRTs start to become even rarer), I'm saying that such a collection - if released right now - would have a smaller but still noticeable audience.

(One issue Melee has for example is that dashing back is too precise, inconsistent and controller-dependent. A re-release would at least help fix the last point.)

Melee is the only game that has a large enough fandom by itself to warrant a re-release, and even then I don't think the economics of it warrant anything more expensive than a straight-up port, not a from-the-ground-up remake (and I'd argue that the exact audience of it wouldn't care for a remake, as it'd likely have gameplay differences minor to anyone else but deal-breaking for the competitive community), so forget about it carrying a compilation. Brawl definitely doesn't have that audience, and this is someone who's played it more than any other game, there's no competitive community and casuals aren't going to spring cash just to replay Subspace Emissary. And outside of the indie scene I guarantee you there's no market for a full-price release of an N64 game today.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I think Inteleon would have plenty of things to separate him from Greninja. After all, one is a ninja while the other is a spy which are two very different professions. Plus if we can't get James Bond in Smash, why not the Pokemon equivalent?

 

[Arcanir]

I know, right? And out of curiosity, which Pokemon would you say is your top favorite, again? I've long been able to tell that Luxray is somewhere high on your list.

Escavalier. It has virtually no chance of getting into Smash since it's not the most well known even within its generation, but I always liked how they took the idea of a beetle stealing a snail's shell and turned it into a knight.

And agreed. It's gotten plenty of spotlights in the anime, at least, so there's that. It just doesn't get much promotion on other fronts. I'm glad it got all this recognition from the fans. Going off an earlier topic concerning Pokemon here, Luxray might not have been made as "mascot" material, but I think it could've easily fallen into that territory if the creators actually tried to go that route from the get-go. And the poll is solid proof that it really is one of the most popular ones out there anyway.

I'm pretty content knowing Luxray placed so highly and is that well-liked, but I hope this means good things for it's future. Maybe it'll get a regional form later or something. I can't actually imagine it getting anywhere near-close to joining Smash, that's more of a pipe-dream of mine (it would be wonderful to see), but seeing it be more involved with spin-offs and other supplementary material would be more than welcome, too. Same goes for any other updates and promotions in may get in the mainline games. I just love this Pokemon a lot. I wouldn't call it my favorite for nothing, after all.

Agreed, it's still surprising to me that the only big thing that the Luxray line has gotten in the spinoffs has been Shinx being a Starter in Explorers of Sky. For as popular as it is, you'd think TCPi would push it more often since it definitely has enough of a fanbase that people would love seeing more of it, but they haven't really touched it. They could definitely do more with it, and hopefully the poll convinces them to try and experiment with it once the DP remakes come around.

Speaking of that, I'd love to see what they could do with a regional form since it has a lot of different elements you could work with. You could play to it being a lion/lynx mix, you could play to the constellation theming and use other options like the Nemean Lion, you could play into its X-Ray vision and/or make it more of a hunter (maybe add the Dark typing here), or maybe even go outside the box and do something different like a Sphinx or Manticore. You could be very creative with a regional form for it, and after seeing how the Galarian set was done I think any form Luxray would get would be excellent.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

After all, one is a ninja while the other is a spy which are two very different professions.

Yeah. One of them is also an assassin. lol

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m not that big of a fan of a Pokémon rep this Pass but if I had to choose I guess I would have to say Gengar. I think above all every Pokémon newcomer should stand out vastly from the other Pokémon and I think Gengar would stand out both aesthetically and gameplay wise.

However I know if this happens a lot of the Pokémon fan base will be upset due to gen one. So, yeah I’ll just do without one if I could choose.