Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Franauts]

Assuming it would happen ... obviously I would love a Hero situation; CJ, Claude, Tommy and Niko or Michael

 

[Goombaic]

Then you should care that they're adding DLC characters and not adding them to classic modes and spirit battles where appropriate.

Not sure how that correlates with what I'm saying and why you reply with that every single time I suggest spirits are a bit more important than this thread believes, but it would be great if they did that. The problem that it would take time to overview any revisions they could do to every for single battle in the game every single time a new character is added, so it's doubtful they'll make changes to base spirit fights soon. Cuphead shows they'll do it for new spirits, so there's hope that they just might make revisions by the time Ultimate's DLC development comes to a close, but that's doubtful seeing how many battles there are.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If they do another guess game and it's "The next fighter is from the Kirby series", I'll probably die before the actual reveal, I can't survive 3 months of that.

I feel like it'd be agreed that it would be Bandana Waddle Dee pretty quickly, though there will be stans for the rest of the Dream Friends as well...

Which brings me to my next question: If we were to get a Dream Friend from Kirby Star Allies, which one would you guys want most, and Iko MattOrr , Why is it Adeline & Ribbon?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The charger would fit quite well on them since a lot of the Octoling enemies are snipers. Also a sniper in Smash would be cool.

I could see it be an incredible kill option if you have the time to charge it.

I see you’re a person of culture as well!

I had a kinda crazy idea that maybe the Charger could be a side recovery in midair by summoning a grapplink and the Octoling in Octo form can damage an enemy if they hit the enemy in midair. Idk.

also I was thinking either Inkjet or Baller for a final smash as both specials are used to clear some levels in Octo Expansion

I don't think we need the grapplink when Octo Jump would already be a good enough recovery. Still a neat idea though.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not sure how that correlates with what I'm saying and why you reply with that every single time I suggest spirits are a bit more important than this thread believes, but it would be great if they did that. The problem that it would take time to overview any revisions they could do to every for single battle in the game every single time a new character is added, so it's doubtful they'll make changes to base spirit fights soon. Cuphead shows they'll do it for new spirits, so there's hope that they just might make revisions by the time Ultimate's DLC development comes to a close, but that's doubtful seeing how many battles there are.

I've only replied to you with that argument twice. The point is that hints that a character became a fighter after the base game cannot be escaped from, when the intro's concept of showing the entire roster became outdated less than two months after release, and the Squad Strike UI art hasn't been updated so Terry is Ryu and Ken's teammate.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Spring Man’s current Spirit can be renamed Spring Man (ARMS) and his fighter spirit can be called Spring Man (Fighter). Renaming Spirits has already happened with Hilda and Dimitri from the Zelda series so I don’t see why adding Spring Man would be this act of terror

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch through the next update they replace Spring's assist, spirit and Mii costume with Springtron.

 

[Himiko]

Better.

"The next fighter is yet again from Fire Emblem".

The salt would be real.

I wonder what Sakurai would come up with to say if that actually happened.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The Spring Man Spirit is, to top things off, a Mii Brawler with the Spring Man outfit.

Without the Spring Man AT auto-spawning.

I always thought Spring Man’s spirit battle not summoning his AT was weird

 

[Perkilator]

Claude is in PUNCH OUT!!!?

Oh, sorry, I meant the same game as Byleth, Three Houses. I should've specified.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wonder what Sakurai would come up with to say if that actually happened.

"Nintendo made me do it! Plz don't hurt me!"

-Sakurai, in the parallel universe where this happened.

Oh, sorry, I meant the same game as Byleth, Three Houses. I should've specified.

Oh ok...

Sandman is in Fire Emblem: Three Houses?

 

[Just a random scrub]

The Spring Man Spirit is, to top things off, a Mii Brawler with the Spring Man outfit.

Without the Spring Man AT auto-spawning.

Plus they could just easily replace that Brawler with the real deal and convert it to a Fighter Battle if they really wanted to stay consistent with the minimal lore. (Provided you downloaded Springman, of course)

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Watch through the next update they replace Spring's assist, spirit and Mii costume with Springtron.

That doesn't seem like a Sakurai thing to do, especially assuming that'd technically be removing content from the game.

 

[Schnee117]

Why would they even replace the Mii costume when several fighters co-exist perfectly fine with mii costumes based on them?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That doesn't seem like a Sakurai thing to do, especially assuming that'd technically be removing content from the game.

Better yet watch we get Springtron.

"As you may all know. It was too late in Base game to add Spring Man and given he's an assist trophy, we went with the closest thing to the mascot as an playable character. Here is Springtron.". - Sakurai

 

[Koopaul]

In the context of ARMS, everyone can do the exact same thing Spring Man can while most have more personality than him and sometimes even a unique ability Smash hasn't utilized before.

What? It's the exact opposite. Most character have less personality than him. Including Min Min. Like, why do people ignore Spring Man's personality? And yet they see stoic serious characters like Ninjara, Min Min, Misango having more?

I don't get it.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I feel like it'd be agreed that it would be Bandana Waddle Dee pretty quickly, though there will be stans for the rest of the Dream Friends as well...

Which brings me to my next question: If we were to get a Dream Friend from Kirby Star Allies, which one would you guys want most, and Iko MattOrr , Why is it Adeline & Ribbon?

There are several reasons for why I want Adeleine & Ribbon, I'm not even sure I'll be able to list them all without forgetting something.

-Kirby's Dream Land 3 is my favorite Kirby game, I basically grew up with it and I'm really fond of that game and everything that comes out of it. Adeleine's debut was in that game as "Ado" (I actually prefer her Ado desing to be honest but you can't ask for everything, it's already incredible to have the character back into the main series).
-By extension, all the Dark Matter trilogy games. That trilogy got overlooked by the Kirby developers for decades, and I always wanted them to be represented and considered more
-I remember that when I was younger, I was amazed by how those sketches (made by Ado) in the ending of Kirby's Dream Land 3 were so simple yet so nice looking, and they influenced my drawing skills because I used them as inspiration a lot... in fact, that game introduced me in liking minimalistic stuff. Adeleine uses that same drawing style for her summons and I just like it.
-Because I like mage characters in general. Whenever I can choose a class in a game, I always choose the character who has some crafting spell gimmick in their skillset. Adeleine is not really a mage character-wise, but her gameplay is similar to the one of mage/summoner characters.
-Because I supported her return for many years and I would be very happy to see that my effort was worth.
-Because I like the concept of drawing stuff to life, it's just interesting and funny-looking
-Because she's my favorite character to play as in Kirby Star Allies and I can't stop to improve the Soul Melter EX record with her because it's just fun and there's a lot of room for improvement. This has nothing to do with me liking the character, it's purely about gameplay... in fact there are characters in Smash that I like (such as Sonic, Dedede, Metaknight) but I never play as because I don't like their moveset... They managed to make Adeleine's gameplay in a way that I like, and that's cool; I would like that gameplay to be converted in a Smash moveset, somehow.
-Because she draws several recurring enemies from the Kirby series, expanding the representation. She can draw stuff such as Kracko, Ice Dragon, Bouncy, etc. even Dark Matter...

Ribbon or not, really I only care about Adeleine being playable. I ask for "Adeleine & Ribbon" because that's how the most recent version of the character appeared in the most recent game but I would be fine with Adeleine alone too.

Since we're talking about gender representation, the fact that she's a female character does not influence my opinion that much. In fact, the first time I saw her I didn't even know she was female... she looked pretty neutral gender-wise and only realized that she was female once I reached the final cutscene of the game. I still I liked the character the same even when I was not aware.
On the other hand, I think that the fact that she's female is nice, because unlike some characters such as Peach or Amy Rose, she doesn't flaunt it to the player, she just look normal and her gender doesn't define the character; I usually prefer when it's done this way.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Why would they even replace the Mii costume when several fighters co-exist perfectly fine with mii costumes based on them?

So basically, just rename the spirit, no need to touch the Mii costume and for the AT:

There you go. Case closed.

 

[Cosmic77]

I can understand why someone would feel like Spring Man has one of the least interesting designs, but least interesting personalities?

Ninjara, Master Mummy, Min Min, Kid Cobra, and Misango are way less expressive than Spring Man, Byte would just be a generic robot voice without Barq, and Springtron is just a robot copying the original.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

My picks would be.

Super Mario Bros.: Paper Mario
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ganon
Metroid: Sylux
Yoshi: Kamek
Kirby: Bandana Dee
StarFox: Leon Powalski
Pokemon: Urshifu
EarthBound: Porky Minch
F-Zero: Black Shadow
Fire Emblem: Lyn
Kid Icarus: Medusa
WarioWare: Ashley
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic the Hedgehog: Dr. Eggman
Pikmin: Louie
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: Proto Man
Punch-Out!!: King Hippo
Pac-Man: Ms. Pac-Man
Xenoblade Chronicles: Elma
Ryu Hayabusa: Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Tifa Lockhart
Bayonetta: Jeanne
Castlevania: Alucard
Splatoon: Octoling
Persona 5: Kasumi
Dragon Quest: Slime
Banjo-Kazooie: Gruntilda
Fatal Fury: Geese Howard
ARMS: Minmin

Rate my opinion.

I really like the idea of Pig Ganon or Gruntilda being a super heavy weight spell caster.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Spoiler

Tuesday and the 16th rumor is looking like it'll be an probability now.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Not sure how that correlates with what I'm saying and why you reply with that every single time I suggest spirits are a bit more important than this thread believes, but it would be great if they did that. The problem that it would take time to overview any revisions they could do to every for single battle in the game every single time a new character is added, so it's doubtful they'll make changes to base spirit fights soon. Cuphead shows they'll do it for new spirits, so there's hope that they just might make revisions by the time Ultimate's DLC development comes to a close, but that's doubtful seeing how many battles there are.

They don’t need to revise spirit battles, though. And if they do, they’d just need to make small changes to the spirit of the new fighter. It wouldn’t be difficult. It’s not like they’d have to review every single spirit battle, or a lot of them, or even a big handful. That doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

NoA just tweeted about The Outer Worlds. Did NoE do that?

 

[Goombaic]

They don’t need to revise spirit battles, though. And if they do, they’d just need to make small changes to the spirit of the new fighter. It wouldn’t be difficult. It’s not like they’d have to review every single spirit battle, or a lot of them, or even a big handful. That doesn’t make any sense.

I didn't say they had to, just that it would be nice if they did. It would be really extra, but that's just Sakurai's nature so it's not really that farfetched. I wasn't the one that suggested the idea either.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

NoA just tweeted about The Outer Worlds. Did NoE do that?

NoA just in one of those trolling moods again apparently

 

[SneakyLink]

NoA just in one of those trolling moods again apparently

Likely NoA is going through a backlog of tweets since they haven’t tweeted since June 3rd (5th if counting NintendoVS)

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Spoiler

Tuesday and the 16th rumor is looking like it'll be an probability now.

What does this have to do with Arms or Smash?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Spoiler

Tuesday and the 16th rumor is looking like it'll be an probability now.

Doesn’t seem official, or at least not backed much, and it wasn’t retweeted, so probably nothing to fret over.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

I legit hope it isn't spring man because while that would give me hope for Isaac. It would also give hope to...wah-boy and I'd rather that thing never becomes a smash rep and lose my chance for Isaac forever

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Should point out that after several days of silence, Nintendo of America is back to tweeting about things. First was Clubhouse Games, and just a few minutes ago they tweeted about The Outer Worlds. It may not mean anything, but it does show that NoA is back to communicating.

I'll comment on some other things shortly.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I feel like it'd be agreed that it would be Bandana Waddle Dee pretty quickly, though there will be stans for the rest of the Dream Friends as well...

Which brings me to my next question: If we were to get a Dream Friend from Kirby Star Allies, which one would you guys want most, and @Iko MattOrr, Why is it Adeline & Ribbon?

Hey, I'd prefer Adeleine and Ribbon as a Smash fighter, too! Does my opinion not count?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Seems that Pokémon thing was changed to Saturday anyway:

https://twitter.com/amazongames/status/1270775803773513728?s=21

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hey, I'd prefer Adeleine and Ribbon as a Smash fighter, too! Does my opinion not count?

No. You just weren't at the forefront of my brain. I also knew what Iko's response would be sot that's why I even called him out in the first place.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Seems that Pokémon thing was changed to Saturday anyway:

https://twitter.com/amazongames/status/1270775803773513728?s=21

Saturday seems even more odd. When have they ever had a showcase on the weekend?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I want to address this specifically because that's what makes ARMS uniquely situated to help deal with this issue. Twintelle and Min Min, for example, have become immensely popular ARMS characters post launch that even lead a great deal of promotional material for ARMS and have actually moved the needle in terms of highlighting characters of color in the game. That's more or less exactly what you're telling people to do, the fan base literally made their voices heard and have helped push these characters to the forefront of ARMS. Now, are they exclusively beloved or supported for their skin color and/or ethnicity, of course not, and I hate when people resort to the straw man of "Ask for characters you want, not just diversity quota" when a good deal of people recognize both the diversity of the fighter AND their unique traits, abilities, and character all at once. Race, gender, or sexuality are rarely "all that matters" with these fighters for most people, but these realities can make people connect more with a character and be a further major component as to why people support them even if it's not "the only reason."

ARMS already has its white male protagonist already in the game as an Assist Trophy and has had some time to really define which of its characters are genuinely popular over the course of those next couple years post launch. It's uniquely situated to have very popular female characters of color step into a leading role within Smash that we just absolutely cannot say about most other video games, let alone Nintendo games. That's not disqualifying Spring Man per se, but it is creating an opening for further diverse fighters that is rarely open (which in of itself is a problem with the industry as you highlighted in your post). Nintendo of Japan may take diversity less into consideration than Nintendo of America would, but that doesn't mean they can't recognize such an opportunity as the one present with the ARMS situation. Having Spring Man continue to be the Assist Trophy alongside a new playable fighter from ARMS that isn't him actually helps result in showing off more of ARMS to players. Spring Man still gets an incredible honor as the assist trophy in the first place and could fight alongside or against another ARMS fighter. So, there's still a perfectly valid argument to foregoing the "traditional mascot" route as, again, ARMS and its characters have evolved in status and popularity significantly post launch from where Nintendo started advertising the game. Again, I have to emphasize how unique these circumstances are to creating a window for a more diverse (and more popular) fighter to step into the ring.


But beyond that, I think your "demand more diverse main characters in video games" comes off a bit as passing the buck on the issue. It essentially makes for a situation in which people who would like to see more diverse and popular options in Smash where there is no actionable plan forward. There can't be anything done directly in regards to Smash when you're telling people to diversify the industry as a whole instead (and it also is a macro ideology versus a targeted micro call to action, which in of itself makes it more difficult to realize). Pushing for more diversity across games as a whole and moving away from the homogenization of protagonists is still a worthy goal to pursue... but again, it basically makes a statement that you can't do anything about the current topic at hand of diversity in Smash when you utilize that approach. And it's not like Smash inherently lacks a ton of perfectly valid candidates to address this issue to begin with. 2B, Lara Croft, and Reimu are some options that immediately come to mind from brand new franchises that fit within Smash's tendency to add new franchises. I've already laid out how the ARMS situation is well suited to add to at least the gender diversity. I will admit that yes, adding additional fighters from existing franchises helps too in the cases of say Chun-Li and Dixie Kong too. I don't think Smash is in such a situation that we can't actively take action with it or request beloved fighters who also help expand Smash's diversity (which is literally something that Sakurai has highlighted as a goal in the past with Smash 4, so I don't think it's absolutely unreasonable to approach this topic as well).

This is not to say male characters are invalid options or any other hyperbolic misconstruing of my words. This is just pointing out that Smash does have some opportunities to diversify its roster with beloved characters, and that while yes, Spring Man is still a "valid choice" (the fact that calling for diversity makes me people think a character is thus invalid worries me a little to begin with), ARMS is also uniquely situated to pick a more diverse rep as a game that itself actually pushes more diversity than most with its two most popular characters being among the most diverse options in the game.

I don't want to bring up what by this point is a mostly dead topic, but I agree with this. I just hope that, if we do get Spring Man, people keep supporting Min Min, Twintelle, Ribbon Girl, Dr. Coyle, et al with the same passion. I don't want people to give up on these characters, or on any character that would make the game more diverse, because they didn't get in the first time around. The way I see it, if a character from a franchise doesn't get in but another one does, that's one obstacle to inclusion out of the way.

Granted, I get why people don't do that. The speculation environment has been for a while focused only on main characters from new franchises, so it's easy to dismiss these kinds of picks as unlikely. But I think ultimately we'll be worse off if we don't provide the environment to at least discuss these characters. If a character as legendary as Chun-Li gets little discussion, maybe our parameters for discussion should change a bit.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

No. You just weren't at the forefront of my brain. I also knew what Iko's response would be sot that's why I even called him out in the first place.

Lol I'm so predictable
Though there's a good amount of Dream Friends and other Kirby characters that I would also like to have in the game (I kinda even support Chef kawasaki, as crazy as it may sound). It's just that Adeleine gets all the priority for me, everything else comes after.

 

[Deleted member]

Other than wanting spirits to actually hold their purpose and not be rendered pointless by a so-called "upgrade" but since I'm the only person that cares about World of Light, spirits, and singleplayer Smash in general left in existence I'll just watch in anguish as Spring Man is added.

Okay, but like,

What if an upgraded spirit is one of your most wanted characters?

Would you be happy if that happens, or will you complain because a png image is now rendered "pointless"?

I legit hope it isn't spring man because while that would give me hope for Isaac. It would also give hope to...wah-boy and I'd rather that thing never becomes a smash rep and lose my chance for Isaac forever

I don’t think Waluigi getting in would disconfirm Isaac at all, their both from completely different series.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t think Waluigi getting in would disconfirm Isaac at all, their both from completely different series.

I think they meant that they'd rather see Isaac (and all ATs) disconfirmed if it meant Waluigi wouldn't get in.

 

[Flik]

No matter how you slice it it's pretty whack that the only dark skinned character on a roster of almost 80 (barring alternate costumes for certain avatars) is the literal self-proclaimed King of Evil.

Ganondorf? I thought he was the King of Disrespect

--------------

A new character for each franchise in Smash? Can't comment on those I didn't play much or at all and the ones I dislike, so...

Spoiler

Super Mario Bros.: Geno
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ganon
Kirby: Bandana Dee
Pokemon: Cinderace
Fire Emblem: Alm/Celica tag team
Metal Gear: Big Boss
Sonic the Hedgehog: Shadow
Mega Man: X
Street Fighter: Guy (it's Final Fight but also Street Fighter )
Final Fantasy: Tifa
Castlevania: Alucard
Fatal Fury: Blue Mary

 

[DarthEnderX]

Super Mario Bros.: Captain Toad/Toadette
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong(Diddy echo)
The Legend of Zelda: Impa
Metroid: Don't care
Yoshi: Don't care
Kirby: Bandana Dee
StarFox: Don't care
Pokemon: Garchomp
EarthBound: Ninten(Ness echo)
F-Zero: Black Shadow(Captain Falcon echo)
Fire Emblem: Black Shadow(Ike echo)
Kid Icarus: Medusa
WarioWare: Don't care
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic the Hedgehog: Shadow(Sonic echo)
Pikmin: Don't care
Animal Crossing: Don't care
Mega Man: Zero
Punch-Out!!: King Hippo
Pac-Man: Don't care
Xenoblade Chronicles: Don't care
Ryu Hayabusa: Bison
Final Fantasy: Black Mage
Bayonetta: Jeanne(Bayonetta echo)
Castlevania: Alucard
Splatoon: Octoling(Inklings echo)
Persona 5: Don't care
Dragon Quest: Don't care
Banjo-Kazooie: Don't care
Fatal Fury: Geese Howard
ARMS: Don't care