Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[EricTheGamerman]

But they don’t add characters to Smash for that reason. They didn’t add Banjo or Cloud so that people could have an identity connection with them. They added them because they’re beloved video game icons. Go play Street Fighter or Tekken or literally any other video game if you hope to feel an identity connection with the characters

Saying people can't have a connection with Smash characters is certainly... a take.

 

[epicmartin7]

If anyone asks me why I don't want more characters after the second fighters pass I'll show them this image.

Hey... technically, if we get a third fighters pass with four more characters... we get this amazing 91 icon CSS!

Spoiler: Image of CSS Here

"It...it's a perfect rectangle..."
*sheds tear*
"Beautiful"
*notices that Peach is now invading the original 12*
"Nooooooooooooo!!!"


Wait, you can stack the Miis?

Yeah, even after playing the game for awhile, I didn't even know the Miis could be stacked either. I got to say though, that is pretty brilliant on the developer's part.

 

[osby]

People voice their opinion for characters that they simply love as a video game character, not because of the character’s gender or racial background

I don't see how those things can't be a part of the reason why you like a character.

I'm not a fan of people reducing characters to their labels but there's nothing wrong with feeling a connection to a video game character because of their race or gender. You can't separate those things from a well-written/designed character.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

Okay... I got to be honest. The Stacked CSS actually looks dank as heck.
View attachment 274362

Holy.... A perfect rectangle...

Both the FP1&FP2 characters are on the last row... This is too perfect I'm actually shedding a tear...

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Um. Wut? Smash is so popular because people connect with the characters.

Alright I understand what I said was pretty harsh, and I apologize. I didn’t mean you can’t have a connection with the characters. All I meant is that they aren’t trying to fulfill specific demographics in Smash like they likely are with other original games with original characters that aren’t meant to simply be a celebration of important gaming icons like Smash is. And my gripe is with people who get upset when these superficial expectations aren’t met. That’s all. Again, I apologize for the bad take

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

EDIT: Just noticed Beth Uriel's new profile picture. Not sure how I feel about how skelly-man's lookin' at me...

Not a skeleton. It's a ghost. Literally.

The original picture was similar, heh. To note, skeletons are just skull-headed characters in the context of the pictures I used lately. It's a large texture mouth, where the Ghost grins normally, and goes frowny-face when being hit.

This is the previous version of the picture I used. It clearly does not show off its features as well. Though yes, the angle definitely looks creepier here. XD

-------------------

My two cents is characters are not only a gender/race. They're more than that. Connecting with them because of it makes sense, of course. But ignoring the rest of it is also bad. They're still characters. Their personality, abilities, these are important too.

 

[Himiko]

People voice their opinion for characters that they simply love as a video game character, not because of the character’s gender or racial background

People voice their opinions of characters they like or dislike, for their own reasons.

 

[Aetheri]

In some cases a character's gender or race is one of the reasons why people connect with them, especially if the character's written in a certain way where it's actually relevant. Everyone has their own reasons why they connect with certain characters, for some it's because they represent something they aspire to be, or it's because the character actually reminds them of themselves in some ways, in some cases it could literally be because they look like them.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In the context of ARMS, everyone can do the exact same thing Spring Man can while most have more personality than him

I mean, are you really going to say the hot-blooded competitive goofball Spring Man has less personality than Misango, Ninjara, Min Min, Twintelle, Byte & Bark, Springtron, Ribbon Girl and Helix? The only characters you can really argue have “more personality” than him are characters like Dr. Coyle, Lola Pop and Max Brass.

And no, no-one fits the bill of being the exact same as him in terms of serving the role of being an beginner character who is designed from head-to-toe to represent the essence of what ARMS is all about, which is precisely the reason why he is the most promoted by Nintendo as the face of his series. And as Nintendo is choosing the DLC, the argument shouldn’t be what makes him special since that is already clear.

The biggest problem i have with the “we need more females/people of color” argument is this. This game has ~80 characters from across the entire gaming sphere including Mario, Pikachu, Link, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac Man, Banjo-Kazooie, Solid Snake, Ryu, Terry Bogard, Cloud Strife among many others and yet people are being nitpicky about the artificial lack of something superficial that’s completely beside the point of the series. Would it be great to see characters like Elma, Dixie Kong and Lara Croft? Of course. But I am so sick of hearing that we “NEED” x, y, or z in the Fighter Pass purely to satisfy some superficial politically correct narrative.

This is a strawman. We don’t need anything, including any of the DLC characters to begin with. It’s just a case of people wanting more representation. At any rate, I already feel like the base roster alone is as close to perfection as a fighting game crossover roster can get.

 

[Himiko]

I don't see how those things can't be a part of the reason why you like a character.

I'm not a fan of people reducing characters to their labels but there's nothing wrong with feeling a connection to a video game character because of their race or gender. You can't separate those things from a well-written/designed character.

In some cases a character's gender or race is one of the reasons why people connect with them, especially if the character's written in a certain way where it's actually relevant. Everyone has their own reasons why they connect with certain characters, for some it's because they represent something they aspire to be, or it's because the character actually reminds them of themselves in some ways, in some cases it could literally be because they look like them.

I agree with these guys that race or gender can be a reason someone likes a character. And it’s pretty obvious Sakurai/Nintendo isn’t trying to address diversity in Smash—doesn’t mean some people aren’t going to be bummed about it if they’re getting the short end of the stick, like me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, even after playing the game for awhile, I didn't even know the Miis could be stacked either. I got to say though, that is pretty brilliant on the developer's part.

Man this game's got so much attention to detail that it actually becomes super jarring when they miss something like a hazard toggle for the Stage Select Screen or icons for Hero's spells. It's kind of an underhanded compliment, but I do mean it as a compliment. This game gives players so much freedom.

Not a skeleton. It's a ghost. Literally.

The original picture was similar, heh. To note, skeletons are just skull-headed characters in the context of the pictures I used lately. It's a large texture mouth, where the Ghost grins normally, and goes frowny-face when being hit.

I kinda knew that but...I dunno. It just gives me skelly vibes for some reason. Maybe it was the mouth? Now that I can see that it's just a head, hands, and feet, it reminds me of a Rayman character. Overall, it's a pretty neat ghost design.

 

[PeridotGX]

What?

There's no reason to not want Spirit/AT upgrades, unless you don't like the idea of people having hope.

 

[SKX31]

I don't see how those things can't be a part of the reason why you like a character.

I'm not a fan of people reducing characters to their labels but there's nothing wrong with feeling a connection to a video game character because of their race or gender. You can't separate those things from a well-written/designed character.

In some cases a character's gender or race is one of the reasons why people connect with them, especially if the character's written in a certain way where it's actually relevant. Everyone has their own reasons why they connect with certain characters, for some it's because they represent something they aspire to be, or it's because the character actually reminds them of themselves in some ways, in some cases it could literally be because they look like them.

I'm going to illustrate this by talking about a massive aversion to the norm. Honor of Kings, Tencent's mobile LoL (known as Arena of Valor internationally, got a Switch port that's now been shut down):

Honor of Kings surprised the video game industry regarding two assumptions:

A MOBA game on a smartphone can be a full featured and fun esports game that would smash record revenues for any MOBA game.

Young women became the majority 54% player-base for a non-casual, core multiplayer game in an industry and genre (MOBAs) that is historically ~90% male dominant—quite a stunning achievement.

In addition, HoK introduced more new players to MOBAs than any other MOBA game in history — I recently wrote an article sharing that 80.6% of female and 54% of male Honor of Kings players are first time MOBA players.

HoK has been the biggest reason for the continued rapid growth of China’s esports market since 2017 where 36% of female and 50% of male Honor of Kings players watch esports.​

And thus, Tencent got together with makeup company MAC:

The HoK + MAC mash-up was an overwhelming success. Consumers placed over 14,000 pre-orders across the three platforms, and all five lipstick styles sold out across all sales channels within 24 hours of the launch, demonstrating HoK’s cultural impact. Source: Sohu, Jing Daily

The girls / women buying the lipstick obviously feel a connection to the characters in question, just as console game fans and anime fans buy merchandise with their favorite characters.

 

[osby]

There's no reason to not want Spirit/AT upgrades, unless you don't like the idea of people having hope.

Or you know, you could be hoping for new franchises or characters that aren't a Spirit or AT.

 

[Opossum]

In some cases a character's gender or race is one of the reasons why people connect with them, especially if the character's written in a certain way where it's actually relevant. Everyone has their own reasons why they connect with certain characters, for some it's because they represent something they aspire to be, or it's because the character actually reminds them of themselves in some ways, in some cases it could literally be because they look like them.

One good example of this is Claude from Fire Emblem: Three Houses. The series mostly stuck to medieval European settings so the majority of characters were very fair skinned. Hoshido (feudal Japan), Chon'sin (non-descript fuedal East Asia), Isaach (central Asia), and Sacae (Mongolia) were also based off of Asian nations. The only ones really outside of these before Three Houses were Verdane (which took minor inspiration from Persia) and Plegia (which took inspiration from ancient Egypt)...and all playable characters from these places were white.

But then Three Houses gave us Claude who is not only full of meaningful ancient Persian and Ottoman inspiration, but is also a main lord. For a lot of fans that was a really awesome step toward greater cultural diversity in the series. And personally I know many people with Middle Eastern heritage were especially happy to see someone who actually looked like them be depicted in a starring role with a positive light.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Or you know, you could be hoping for new franchises or characters that aren't a Spirit or AT.

I mean... those two things aren't contradictory?

You can have both happen

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I kinda knew that but...I dunno. It just gives me skelly vibes for some reason. Maybe it was the mouth? Now that I can see that it's just a head, hands, and feet, it reminds me of a Rayman character. Overall, it's a pretty neat ghost design.

The boots and hands are literally detached, yep. Maybe I missed what you mean on Skelly, cause I don't think you meant a general skeleton, but a more clear character. >.<;

 

[osby]

I mean... those two things aren't contradictory?

You can have both happen

I meant specific series that aren't currently present in the Ultimate. Should have clarified that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

One good example of this is Claude from Fire Emblem: Three Houses. The series mostly stuck to medieval European settings so the majority of characters were very fair skinned. Hoshido (feudal Japan), Chon'sin (non-descript fuedal East Asia), Isaach (central Asia), and Sacae (Mongolia) were also based off of Asian nations. The only ones really outside of these before Three Houses were Verdane (which took minor inspiration from Persia) and Plegia (which took inspiration from ancient Egypt)...and all playable characters from these places were white.

But then Three Houses gave us Claude who is not only full of meaningful ancient Persian and Ottoman inspiration, but is also a main lord. For a lot of fans that was a really awesome step toward greater cultural diversity in the series. And personally I know many people with Middle Eastern heritage were especially happy to see someone who actually looked like them be depicted in a starring role with a positive light.

Off-topic, but I also remember there being quiet a lot of people happy with the inclusion of Rashid in Street Fighter 5.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The only ones really outside of these before Three Houses were Verdane (which took minor inspiration from Persia) and Plegia (which took inspiration from ancient Egypt)...and all playable characters from these places were white.

"Oh c'mon, we have a stage in Smash! How could you forget us? We're an important part of your favorite Fire Emblem game!"

"It's okay he forgot about the Fire Tribe too."

"Aren't you the only member of the Fire Tribe we see?"

"Yeah, but I'm almost a main character so I count."

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I meant specific series that aren't currently present in the Ultimate. Should have clarified that.

Yes, but that reply was originally meant for someone who was saying he wanted an ARMS character that wasn't an upgrade for the sole purpose of keeping the fan rule intact. So it was already talking about a series that was already in Ultimate.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hello! I have an interesting fact for you today. Did you know that it gets hotter in the northern hemisphere and colder in the southern hemisphere until we reach the solstice? That's on June 20th this year, so we have some new themed items in Nook Shopping for you! pic.twitter.com/SwgRcBFLl1

— Isabelle (@animalcrossing) June 10, 2020

BRACE YOURSELF. NOA is catching up with NOE. somethings coming...

 

[Opossum]

"Oh we c'mon, we have a stage in Smash? How could you forget us? We're an important part of your favorite Fire Emblem game!"

"It's okay he forgot about the Fire tribe too."

"Aren't you the only member of the Fire Tribe we see?"

"Yeah, but I'm almost a main character so I count."

Lol, I mainly left out Regna Ferox and the Flame Tribe because it's harder to pinpoint an exact cultural inspiration for them.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One good example of this is Claude from Fire Emblem: Three Houses. The series mostly stuck to medieval European settings so the majority of characters were very fair skinned. Hoshido (feudal Japan), Chon'sin (non-descript fuedal East Asia), Isaach (central Asia), and Sacae (Mongolia) were also based off of Asian nations. The only ones really outside of these before Three Houses were Verdane (which took minor inspiration from Persia) and Plegia (which took inspiration from ancient Egypt)...and all playable characters from these places were white.

But then Three Houses gave us Claude who is not only full of meaningful ancient Persian and Ottoman inspiration, but is also a main lord. For a lot of fans that was a really awesome step toward greater cultural diversity in the series. And personally I know many people with Middle Eastern heritage were especially happy to see someone who actually looked like them be depicted in a starring role with a positive light.

His actual name's even Eastern, how relatable must that be? Having white people struggle to say Khalid so hard that you make up a fake white name because for some reason your real name is harder to spell and pronounce than Bblaidyd or Hresvelg

I mean, are you really going to say the hot-blooded competitive goofball Spring Man has less personality than Misango, Ninjara, Min Min, Twintelle, Byte & Bark, Springtron, Ribbon Girl and Helix? The only characters you can really argue have “more personality” than him are characters like Dr. Coyle, Lola Pop and Max Brass.

And no, no-one fits the bill of being the exact same as him in terms of serving the role of being an beginner character who is designed from head-to-toe to represent the essence of what ARMS is all about, which is precisely the reason why he is the most promoted by Nintendo as the face of his series. And as Nintendo is choosing the DLC, the argument shouldn’t be what makes him special since that is already clear.



This is a strawman. We don’t need anything, including any of the DLC characters to begin with. It’s just a case of people wanting more representation. At any rate, I already feel like the base roster alone is as close to perfection as a fighting game crossover roster can get.

Being hotblooded is just being competitive in the ring, which applies to literally all of them who're in it for sport, being goofy isn't a trait exclusive to him either, the world of ARMS by nature has wacky characters

 

[True Blue Warrior]

"Oh we c'mon, we have a stage in Smash? How could you forget us? We're an important part of your favorite Fire Emblem game!"

"It's okay he forgot about the Fire tribe too."

"Aren't you the only member of the Fire Tribe we see?"

"Yeah, but I'm almost a main character so I count."

Don’t you put any stock in this destiny hogwash!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Lol, I mainly left out Regna Ferox and the Flame Tribe because it's harder to pinpoint an exact cultural inspiration for them.

"Where do I fit in?"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maybe I missed what you mean on Skelly, cause I don't think you meant a general skeleton, but a more clear character. >.<;

Nah you're correct. Skelly is just a cutesy name for the skeleton mobs much like zombo or gobbo.

Spoiler: Image

"Oh we c'mon, we have a stage in Smash? How could you forget us? We're an important part of your favorite Fire Emblem game!"

Too bad you're only playable from the second to last chapter onward.


Seriously though. I understand why they weren't there too early, but the two khans appear so late in the game that they kind of feel like "here's some units in case all of yours died" characters.

 

[Opossum]

"Where do I fit in?"

Benny is an enigma and I really have no idea...Fates didn't have the strongest world building lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"Oh we c'mon, we have a stage in Smash! How could you forget us? We're an important part of your favorite Fire Emblem game!"

"It's okay he forgot about the Fire Tribe too."

"Aren't you the only member of the Fire Tribe we see?"

"Yeah, but I'm almost a main character so I count."

Rinkah will only get to be important when she has a higher strength stat than a 14 year old

 

[Jomosensual]

Hello! I have an interesting fact for you today. Did you know that it gets hotter in the northern hemisphere and colder in the southern hemisphere until we reach the solstice? That's on June 20th this year, so we have some new themed items in Nook Shopping for you! pic.twitter.com/SwgRcBFLl1

— Isabelle (@animalcrossing) June 10, 2020

BRACE YOURSELF. NOA is catching up with NOE. somethings coming...

God dammit dont get me excited

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Enough is enough! I have had it with these monkey-fighting Risen on this Monday-to-Friday arena!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nah you're correct. Skelly is just a cutesy name for the skeleton mobs much like zombo or gobbo.

Ahhhhhh. I'm used to them being more skullish heads. Zelda, etc. Heh.

...I'll take Ghost as a spirit in Smash though in the massively rare chance Brian were to get in. Is there really any character besides Donkey Kong that's known for being a massive grinner? Robin isn't too off from his abilities, or Ness/Lucas(since PK Thunder is kind of similar to its spell, Homing Arrow Lv 2, which is an erratic projectile that goes in quite a few different directions).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Seriously though. I understand why they weren't there too early, but the two khans appear so late in the game that they kind of feel like "here's some units in case all of yours died" characters.

"That's actually an important gameplay archtype in Fire Emblem, kiddo. Don't knock what's important."

"Plus Flavia and I and important throughout the plot, so I don't think its fair to put us as afterthoughts."

Rinkah will only get to be important when she has a higher strength stat than a 14 year old

 

[Cap'n Jack]

If we were to get a POC character that wouldn’t feel like a token character, who would be your pick?

I still support the Sandman from Punch-Out. It would be another villain type character and would be an interesting fighter type being a stronger slower Mac type with some of the most powerful attacks in the game. His character would be built entirely around the concept of easy KOs for opponents while being a super heavy weight that is also hard to knock out with loads of super armor.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If we were to get a POC character that wouldn’t feel like a token character, who would be your pick?

Elma

Elma's a bad ass.

I still support the Sandman from Punch-Out. It would be another villain type character and would be an interesting fighter type being a stronger slower Mac type with some of the most powerful attacks in the game. His character would be built entirely around the concept of easy KOs for opponents while being a super heavy weight that is also hard to knock out with loads of super armor.

The only thing villainous about Mr. Sandman is that he wants to beat Mac in the ring. He doesn't actually do anything bad otherwise.

Aran Ryan is the only Punch Out character who I'd call a villain.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Well villain might not be the best word...antagonist?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If we were to get a POC character that wouldn’t feel like a token character, who would be your pick?

I still support the Sandman from Punch-Out. It would be another villain type character and would be an interesting fighter type being a stronger slower Mac type with some of the most powerful attacks in the game. His character would be built entirely around the concept of easy KOs for opponents while being a super heavy weight that is also hard to knock out with loads of super armor.

Realistically: Elma (Xenoblade X)
Pipe dream: either T-elos (Xenosaga; hey androids can be POC too) or Marina (Splatoon 2, though she’d probably be an alt for regular Octolings)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well villain might not be the best word...antagonist?

That's a better term for Mr. Sandman.

He's just an obstacle, not a bad dude.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Elma would be a good choice too

 

[Wunderwaft]

If we were to get a POC character that wouldn’t feel like a token character, who would be your pick?

I still support the Sandman from Punch-Out. It would be another villain type character and would be an interesting fighter type being a stronger slower Mac type with some of the most powerful attacks in the game. His character would be built entirely around the concept of easy KOs for opponents while being a super heavy weight that is also hard to knock out with loads of super armor.

CJ from Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas