Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why? It'll be win-win for everyone who wanted Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara and Minmin.

At least Ninjara or Min Min would be done a disservice though. I think the best alt situation would be Spring Man & Ribbon Girl. Their abilities put together would make a more well rounded fighter rather than a jumbled mess that doesn't make sense. I suppose you could throw in Springtron by virtue of him being Spring Man, but a robot, but I wouldn't want anyone else's abilities erased/replaced with another character's.

EDIT: Which is to say that peronally, I see it as a lose-lose.

 

[Dinoman96]

If Ninjara was an alt, they could possibly just represent his warp ability through the dodging animations.

I think the Hero setup being a thing depends on how much they're willing to differentiate the cosmetic animations for each alt skin. Stuff like Byleth does show it's possible, but the ARMS character would be taking it to a whole other level.

 

[Perkilator]

People can’t handle a different opinion.

Unless, of course, they decide to show some respect towards opinions they don't agree with.

You know, something I at least have the decency to do.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also this wouldn't be the first time Sabi lied about being contacted by Vergeben

 

[RileyXY1]

If Ninjara was an alt, they could possibly just represent his warp ability through the dodging animations.

I think the Hero setup being a thing depends on how much they're willing to differentiate the animations for each alt skin. Stuff like Byleth does show it's possible, but the ARMS character would be taking it to a whole other level.

Especially considering that these characters have their own special abilities, such as Ninjara's teleporting or Min Min's kick. I don't think that people would want them to fight exactly like Spring Man.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Ninjara was an alt, they could possibly just represent his warp ability through the dodging animations.

I think the Hero setup being a thing depends on how much they're willing to differentiate the cosmetic animations for each alt skin. Stuff like Byleth does show it's possible, but the ARMS character would be taking it to a whole other level.

There is actually a pretty big problem with this in that it would make him objectively the best alternate costume since his air dodge and dodge rolls are ambiguous while everyone else's are not.

 

[Dinoman96]

Especially considering that these characters have their own special abilities, such as Ninjara's teleporting or Min Min's kick. I don't think that people would want them to fight exactly like Spring Man.

In regards to Min Min, I'd say it's also possible they could just give Spring Man a kicking attack, as a way to give him something else to do in Smash outside of just punching stuff.

I guess it may not be that far removed from Ness and Lucas using their party members' moves, or Simon borrowing some of Richter's abilities.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

They might as well go the echo fighter route, the hero thing just doesn't work with ARMS imo

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Does Vergeben even HAVE a discord? His GFAQS signature says he’s only on GFAQS and Reddit and if you see him anywhere else it’s not him

All the more reason I don't believe this at all. Vergeben would've posted it somewhere. At the very least he would've been screencapped properly if it was removed later on on GameFAQs or something(they don't much touch leak topics, but one was deleted within the last few months).

The only source is Sabi's Discord.

Yeah, that's barely a source if Vergeben isn't the one saying it. There's no reason to believe they actually heard it from Verge themselves here. Does Sonic have any actual credibility?

 

[RileyXY1]

They might as well go the echo fighter route, the hero thing just doesn't work with ARMS imo

I don't know if they would include Echo Fighters, although there are four World of Light slots left over when all the FP2 characters are out. It may be possible that four out of the six FP2 characters would come with their own Echo Fighter.

 

[Himiko]

Unless, of course, they decide to show some respect towards opinions they don't agree with.

You know, something I at least have the decency to do.

Sure, you really do think that making false accusations makes you sound smart huh?

 

[SKX31]

If Ninjara was an alt, they could possibly just represent his warp ability through the dodging animations.

They can change animations has a different (and slightly faster) roll from , and this difference is one reason why competitive players consider Dark Samus to be slightly better than regular Samus (Dark Samus' charged shot also shoots lower, allowing it to catch crouching Pikachus and Pichus. Samus' charged shot flies above a crouching Pika. Dark Samus' shield is weaker than Samus' is though because it doesn't cover Dark Samus' body as well). Albeit in the end, it's up to personal preference since the differences are pretty minor.

As for alts, there are none that I can think of. But even small differences like the above can have an impact. As SMAASH! Puppy said, it would make Ninjara the best alt out of them because he gains an Inkling-like advantage (where the opponent has more difficulty telling what Ninjara's going to do, just like Inkling's dash is ambigous).

 

[Gentlepanda]

nothing would suggest confidence in your fighting game's roster quite like admitting that all the characters are mechanically identical

 

[Rie Sonomura]

They might as well go the echo fighter route, the hero thing just doesn't work with ARMS imo

There ARE four empty WoL slots after pass 2 is done. They could bundle four echoes with four corresponding pass 2 characters

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think it's entirely possible that that screenshot is used to bait Vergeben into saying something related to that content. It isn't properly sourced, and it puts words into somebody else's mouth.

It essentially puts Vergeben's credibility on the line, but it's not him saying it. Entirely possible that Verg responds, but that doesn't mean we'll find out anything from him.

 

[Trevenant]

At least Ninjara or Min Min would be done a disservice though. I think the best alt situation would be Spring Man & Ribbon Girl. Their abilities put together would make a more well rounded fighter rather than a jumbled mess that doesn't make sense. I suppose you could throw in Springtron by virtue of him being Spring Man, but a robot, but I wouldn't want anyone else's abilities erased/replaced with another character's.

EDIT: Which is to say that peronally, I see it as a lose-lose.

didn't read the whole post oops

 

[Phoenixio]

How young do you think everyone is? This is an issue for a lot of people 16+.

From my experience, where I'm from, most people under the age of 35 are fully supporting gender equality. Which conveniently is also the age of people who grew up with video games being quite accessible throughout their whole lives, and what I assume is the vast majority of people on this forum.

Above that, you get the generation that made it more equal, but also grew up under old-fashioned regimes. So there's still uneven treatment of women, depending on the context. And I'm obviously not taking location in the world as a factor, I'm certain there are big differences depending on the country.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Because I'd like characters with more to them, Spring Man's such a basic protagonist that he makes goddamn Goku look complex in comparison

Couldn’t it be said that all the ARMS characters are pretty “basic” in general? I mean, it’s not as the latter sentence couldn’t apply to many characters already in Smash to begin with.

The only character we know was rejected for being too “basic” was Chrom and that was only because of how similar he was compared to Marth and Ike. Spring Man wouldn’t really have that problem nor would he feel vanilla in the context of Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think it's entirely possible that that screenshot is used to bait Vergeben into saying something related to that content. It isn't properly sourced, and it puts words into somebody else's mouth.

It essentially puts Vergeben's credibility on the line, but it's not him saying it. Entirely possible that Verg responds, but that doesn't mean we'll find out anything from him.

Another user just posted it on GameFAQs. Funny timing, that.

He hasn't responded yet.

 

[epicmartin7]

Here's the CSS when Fighters Pass Vol. 2 is all said and done!

Image was taken in-game as... well... I'm bad at art, and this was more convenient lol.

 

[Himiko]

From my experience, where I'm from, most people under the age of 35 are fully supporting gender equality. Which conveniently is also the age of people who grew up with video games being quite accessible throughout their whole lives, and what I assume is the vast majority of people on this forum.

Above that, you get the generation that made it more equal, but also grew up under old-fashioned regimes. So there's still uneven treatment of women, depending on the context. And I'm obviously not taking location in the world as a factor, I'm certain there are big differences depending on the country.

I like how we’re talking about gender equality even though I specifically stated it isn’t about politics.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Couldn’t it be said that all the ARMS characters are pretty “basic” in general? I mean, it’s not as the latter sentence couldn’t apply to many characters already in Smash to begin with.

Well, each character does have strong characterization, but as a fighting game with basically no story, each character is about on par with the cast of any given Mario Kart game as far as complexity goes. Spring Man's traits are more just familiar, and therefore, less interesting to most people. The latter trait is kind of the point though.

It's funny, because before ARMS came out I specifically remember there being praise of Spring Man for not being "the boring one" even though he's the mascot. I guess it's because Max Brass hadn't come out yet. lol

Here's the CSS when Fighters Pass Vol. 2 is all said and done!

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 274361

Image was taken in-game as... well... I'm bad at art, and this was more convenient lol.

Oh boy! Can't wait to play as the invisible man, his wife, their two kids, their dog, and their house, the invisible castle.

EDIT: I just noticed that the entire original 12 is all on one row now. Yuuuuuuuus!!!!

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

The biggest problem i have with the “we need more females/people of color” argument is this. This game has ~80 characters from across the entire gaming sphere including Mario, Pikachu, Link, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac Man, Banjo-Kazooie, Solid Snake, Ryu, Terry Bogard, Cloud Strife among many others and yet people are being nitpicky about the artificial lack of something superficial that’s completely beside the point of the series. Would it be great to see characters like Elma, Dixie Kong and Lara Croft? Of course. But I am so sick of hearing that we “NEED” x, y, or z in the Fighter Pass purely to satisfy some superficial politically correct narrative.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Spoiler

Wrap it up folks. Vergeben spoke out, speculation is over. Time to move onto FP7.

I have my doubts but a lot of that stuff sounds like it'll either be confirmed or denied when the PS5 reveal comes around tomorrow.

 

[Himiko]

The biggest problem i have with the “we need more females/people of color” argument is this. This game has ~80 characters from across the entire gaming sphere including Mario, Pikachu, Link, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac Man, Banjo-Kazooie, Solid Snake, Ryu, Terry Bogard, Cloud Strife among many others and yet people are being nitpicky about the artificial lack of something superficial that’s completely beside the point of the series. Would it be great to see characters like Elma, Dixie Kong and Lara Croft? Of course. But I am so sick of hearing that we “NEED” x, y, or z in the Fighter Pass purely to satisfy some superficial politically correct narrative.

Or, y’know, maybe it isn’t politics and instead just wanting something new that appeals to me just like everyone else is getting new characters they like and find cool and fun.

 

[Perkilator]

Sure, you really do think that making false accusations makes you sound smart huh?

That's not what I'm doing at all. I just want to make sure EVERYONE, not just specific users, understand that we should treat others how we want to be treated. I'm not targeting anyone.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Or, y’know, maybe it isn’t politics and instead just wanting something new that appeals to me just like everyone else is getting new characters they like and find cool and fun.

Maybe that’s because other people appreciate any new character from across the gaming sphere joining the roster and realize that this is a video game meant to celebrate gaming icons rather than intending to fulfill gender and race roles and getting mad every time those superficial expectations aren’t met

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Couldn’t it be said that all the ARMS characters are pretty “basic” in general? I mean, it’s not as the latter sentence couldn’t apply to many characters already in Smash to begin with.

The only character we know was rejected for being too “basic” was Chrom and that was only because of how similar he was compared to Marth and Ike. Spring Man wouldn’t really have that problem nor would he feel vanilla in the context of Smash.

Most characters in Smash have a reason for me to care about them besides "I woke up with spring arms one day and decided I wanted to become spring wrestling Hokage and I can't eat pizza properly" be it backstory, personality, how they react to the wacky situationa they're in, character development, etc. ARMS' minimalistic approach hurts this but deapite this the most that the ingame lore does is maybe hint that Coyle and Brass are his parents, but nothing's done with that.

In the context of ARMS, everyone can do the exact same thing Spring Man can while most have more personality than him and sometimes even a unique ability Smash hasn't utilized before. In the context of Smash, this character who barely got to be a character at all stands out solely for gameplay reasons, but if every other character from his franchise is able to the exact same things he can, what makes him more special than the rest beyond being on the box?

 

[epicmartin7]

Okay... I got to be honest. The Stacked CSS actually looks dank as heck.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maybe that’s because other people appreciate any new character from across the gaming sphere joining the roster and realize that this is a video game meant to celebrate gaming icons rather than intending to fulfill gender and race roles and getting mad every time those superficial expectations aren’t met

Well...if girls are what you like, it doesn't mean your tastes are superficial. Same with whatever else catches your eye or is the easiest for you to identify with.

 

[Opossum]

The biggest problem i have with the “we need more females/people of color” argument is this. This game has ~80 characters from across the entire gaming sphere including Mario, Pikachu, Link, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac Man, Banjo-Kazooie, Solid Snake, Ryu, Terry Bogard, Cloud Strife among many others and yet people are being nitpicky about the artificial lack of something superficial that’s completely beside the point of the series. Would it be great to see characters like Elma, Dixie Kong and Lara Croft? Of course. But I am so sick of hearing that we “NEED” x, y, or z in the Fighter Pass purely to satisfy some superficial politically correct narrative.

People like seeing themselves in characters. If a character looks or acts or is like them, they can feel a stronger connection. This is why good representation matters.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Well...if girls are what you like, it doesn't mean your tastes are superficial. Same with whatever else catches your eye or is the easiest for you to identify with.

That’s fine and all, I agree. But straight up getting mad when those expectations aren’t met is just ridiculous. Nobody is entitled to any kinds of expectations being met for the sake of fulfilling some type of role

 

[slrigeigdew]

Okay... I got to be honest. The Stacked CSS actually looks dank as heck.
View attachment 274362

If anyone asks me why I don't want more characters after the second fighters pass I'll show them this image.

 

[Himiko]

That's not what I'm doing at all. I just want to make sure EVERYONE, not just specific users, understand that we should treat others how we want to be treated. I'm not targeting anyone.

Okay, I agree with you.

Maybe that’s because other people appreciate any new character from across the gaming sphere joining the roster and realize that this is a video game meant to celebrate gaming icons rather than intending to fulfill gender and race roles and getting mad every time those superficial expectations aren’t met

Sorry that I’m not as easy to please as you because of my “superficial” preferences in characters and decided to voice my opinion about it like everyone else is voicing theirs.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay... I got to be honest. The Stacked CSS actually looks dank as heck.

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 274362

"It...it's a perfect rectangle..."
*sheds tear*
"Beautiful"
*notices that Peach is now invading the original 12*
"Nooooooooooooo!!!"


Wait, you can stack the Miis?

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

People like seeing themselves in characters. If a character looks or acts or is like them, they can feel a stronger connection. This is why good representation matters.

But they don’t add characters to Smash for that reason. They didn’t add Banjo or Cloud so that people could have an identity connection with them. They added them because they’re beloved video game icons. Go play Street Fighter or Tekken or literally any other video game if you hope to feel an identity connection with the characters

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pfft. I didn't realize that Sabi's name was Sonic on the Discord.

...I don't consider Sabi particularly credible, however. Vergeben, definitely. And with the Nintendo ninjas all about, Vergeben is going to make the claim public or not at all towards anyone. He's only going to keep with his contacts, not tell someone who doesn't trust. Sabi's not really trustworthy and lied about getting a cease & desist from Nintendo(documents don't look like that).

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Okay, I agree with you.



Sorry that I’m not as easy to please as you because of my “superficial” preferences in characters and decided to voice my opinion about it like everyone else is voicing theirs.

People voice their opinion for characters that they simply love as a video game character, not because of the character’s gender or racial background

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Go play Street Fighter or Tekken or literally any other video game if you hope to feel an identity connection with the characters

Um. Wut? Smash is so popular because people connect with the characters.


EDIT: Just noticed Beth Uriel's new profile picture. Not sure how I feel about how skelly-man's lookin' at me...

 

[Opossum]

But they don’t add characters to Smash for that reason. They did add Banjo or Cloud so that people could identify with them. They added them because they’re beloved video game icons. Go play Street Fighter or Tekken or literally any other video game if you hope to feel an identity connection with the characters

Telling people to "play something else" to have what should be basic representation isn't cool, man. Makes you look pretty bad tbh.

No matter how you slice it it's pretty whack that the only dark skinned character on a roster of almost 80 (barring alternate costumes for certain avatars) is the literal self-proclaimed King of Evil.