Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ok you know what? I thought this was a stupid idea, but now I'm sold. Why? Because Melee Bowser's Edge Attack is so stupid and I love it.

I want to use Bowser's tank run too. XD

Plus, I love Link's Melee, 64, and Brawl movesets. Ganondorf's Melee, Brawl4, and Ultimate movesets feel very different too. And so on.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ok you know what? I thought this was a stupid idea, but now I'm sold. Why? Because Melee Bowser's Edge Attack is so stupid and I love it.

Before Smash 4 every character has 2 Ledge getup attacks.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Before Smash 4 every character has 2 Ledge getup attacks.

And they were based on damage too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Say, if we'd get more Echo Fighters, who would you suspect would be added? Say we get a 3rd Fighter Pass, only Echo Fighters, 6 characters max. Which characters would you want / suspect ?

My top 6 Echo wants?

1. Bass [Megaman]
2. Shadow [Sonic]
3. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
4. Impa [Sheik]
5. Black Knight [Ike]
6. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong]

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Say, if we'd get more Echo Fighters, who would you suspect would be added? Say we get a 3rd Fighter Pass, only Echo Fighters, 6 characters max. Which characters would you want / suspect ?

Also, since it's DLC, the characters can become more unique, like Ken or Chrom.

I love Echoes so i want to participate:

-Viridi (Palutena)
-Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong)
-Celica (Robin)
-Tails (Sonic)
-Ms. Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
-Igglybuff (Jigglypuff)

I imagine they could be Echoes with creative liberties, i know most of these don't work as a copy-paste echo

 

[Megadoomer]

Say, if we'd get more Echo Fighters, who would you suspect would be added? Say we get a 3rd Fighter Pass, only Echo Fighters, 6 characters max. Which characters would you want / suspect ?

Also, since it's DLC, the characters can become more unique, like Ken or Chrom.

I'd have no idea who to expect beyond Octoling as an Inkling echo. I could see Tails as a Ken/Chrom style Sonic echo (one or two different specials, a few different basic attacks, a different final smash, but overall very similar to Sonic), though.

I'd like to see Jeanne as a Bayonetta echo, although I don't know how likely that would be.

If I had to fill out the rest of the line-up: Funky as a DK echo, Liquid as a Snake echo (though he'd have a different final Smash, likely involving Metal Gear Rex, and likely a different side special - Big Boss, whether he's old, young, or Venom Snake, could also work), and Doc Louis as a Little Mac echo (though he'd be slower and heavier, but maybe with a better Up B since he invented the Star Punch) would be my picks.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm not sure how well Doc Louis would work as an echo fighter, since from what I recall, most if not all of them have similar builds to the characters that they're based on, and Doc Louis would be much taller than Mac, even if their movements would be similar. Maybe replace him with Proto Man or Bass.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

-Viridi (Palutena)

I've seen this one brought up a lot back during the Base Game days. Should note Echoes needs to have same heights and similar portions and Viridi is too short to be an Echo for Palutena, at most I could see an semi-clone.

Medusa I feel would be a more likely Echo especially given she's suppose to be Palutena's opposite.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Before Smash 4 every character has 2 Ledge getup attacks.

I forgot about that. I was referring to the fact that one of his Edge Attacks can hit offstage opponents in Melee.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1269434803276754944

If so I don't understand what's stopping from announcing the reveal at home with an trailer. I can see FP7 being delayed but definitely not the ARMS rep.

 

[SneakyLink]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1269434803276754944

If so I don't understand what's stopping from announcing the reveal at home with an trailer. I can see FP7 being delayed but definitely not the ARMS rep.

Article linked is from March 23. Pushdustin's words could still ring true though.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Say, if we'd get more Echo Fighters, who would you suspect would be added? Say we get a 3rd Fighter Pass, only Echo Fighters, 6 characters max. Which characters would you want / suspect ?

Also, since it's DLC, the characters can become more unique, like Ken or Chrom.

• - Jody Summer (F-Zero X)
• - Funky Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
• - Proto Man (Mega Man 3)
• - Flygon (Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire)
• - Tetra (The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker)
• - Lana (Hyrule Warriors)

All of these Echo Fighters would preferably be different from their base character the same way as Chrom and Ken, possibly even moreso while still technically being clones. They could even recycle the Custom Specials from Smash 4, or at least have moves with similar properties as those.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Say, if we'd get more Echo Fighters, who would you suspect would be added? Say we get a 3rd Fighter Pass, only Echo Fighters, 6 characters max. Which characters would you want / suspect ?

Also, since it's DLC, the characters can become more unique, like Ken or Chrom.

: Dixie Kong (Ken/Chrom style echo, only as a last resort if she can't be added any other way)
: Impa
: Viridi or Medusa
: Octoling
: Ms. Pac-Man
: Black Shadow/Jody Summer/Dr. Stewart

 

[TTF]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1269434803276754944

If so I don't understand what's stopping from announcing the reveal at home with an trailer. I can see FP7 being delayed but definitely not the ARMS rep.

Article linked is from March 23. Pushdustin's words could still ring true though.

For Fighters #7-11, I can see a bit of a delay.
If there is one for the ARMS character, I wonder if they'll say so on their social media first or if they do the reveal trailer & announce the delayed new date there?

 

[Koopaul]

I don't get why people want more Echoes just for the sake of having more Echoes. Echoes are a good way of getting a character you want in Smash that otherwise might not have made it. Daisy, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus are all good examples of this. People actually like those characters and are happy to see them in Smash. But then you start getting people who are going out of their way to find an Echo of every fighter. It's kind of ridiculous.

I need to ask the people who come up with these lists of Echo fighters. If the concept of Echoes didn't exist, would you even want those guys you are suggesting?

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1269434803276754944

If so I don't understand what's stopping from announcing the reveal at home with an trailer. I can see FP7 being delayed but definitely not the ARMS rep.

https://twitter.com/Sephazon/status/1255523291428765696


This column is from a few weeks after the one you posted, he sounds a bit more optimistic.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

I don't get why people want more Echoes just for the sake of having more Echoes. Echoes are a good way of getting a character you want in Smash that otherwise might not have made it. Daisy, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus are all good examples of this. People actually like those characters and are happy to see them in Smash. But then you start getting people who are going out of their way to find an Echo of every fighter. It's kind of ridiculous.

I need to ask the people who come up with these lists of Echo fighters. If the concept of Echoes didn't exist, would you even want those guys you are suggesting?

Do you really think people would list characters they don’t want?? Echo fighters make some less likely fighters plausible, i would play igglybuff all the time, but it will never get in, at least as an echo i can mention it in discussion.

I rather have them as a separate characters but if having similarities helps them to make it into the roster, i am happy.

 

[Idon]

If you want a character enough to put them into smash, you should want them in to be at least somewhat unique. Echoes are supposed to be a compromise between fan desire and time/budgetary constraints, not something you should expect or least of all, actually want.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't get why people want more Echoes just for the sake of having more Echoes. Echoes are a good way of getting a character you want in Smash that otherwise might not have made it. Daisy, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus are all good examples of this. People actually like those characters and are happy to see them in Smash. But then you start getting people who are going out of their way to find an Echo of every fighter. It's kind of ridiculous.

Spoiler: All of these Echoes are characters I actually want

10e. Ninten [Ness]
11e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
16e. Impa [Sheik]
27e. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight]
31e. Liquid Snake [Snake]
32e. Black Knight [Ike]
35e. Charizard [Pokemon Trainer]
36e. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]
61e. Zack [Cloud]
63e. Jeanne [Bayonetta]
64e. Octolings [Inklings]

I need to ask the people who come up with these lists of Echo fighters. If the concept of Echoes didn't exist, would you even want those guys you are suggesting?

Yes. As Alt Costumes.

Do you really think people would list characters they don’t want??

I mean, some people DO make up lists purely as a thought exercise.

If you want a character enough to put them into smash, you should want them in to be at least somewhat unique.

Well I don't. But thanks for telling me what I "should" want.

If a character comes from the same franchise, and looks the same or plays mostly the same, I have no issue with them being an Echo or Alt Costume. It gets me a character I want, while saving dev resources that could be used to add in ANOTHER character I wanted.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

If you want a character enough to put them into smash, you should want them in to be at least somewhat unique. Echoes are supposed to be a compromise between fan desire and time/budgetary constraints, not something you should expect or least of all, actually want.

I find it a little odd how you decide what people SHOULD want for their prefered characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If you want a character enough to put them into smash, you should want them in to be at least somewhat unique. Echoes are supposed to be a compromise between fan desire and time/budgetary constraints, not something you should expect or least of all, actually want.

Actually, there are a few reasons to want Echo Fighters:

1. If you like a character, but don't think they'd warrant a full moveset.
2. If the character is never realistically getting in otherwise.
3. If you think they could add an interesting nuance to their parent moveset.

For me, Chrom and Ken are the gold standard for Echo Fighters, and is what I think of when suggesting them. Their different properties and new moves provide a twist to their parent moveset beyond "it's Marth, but objectively better", and while I realize most Echo Fighters aren't like this, they quite frankly should be, and if they're not, I don't want them,* so when I say I would like x character as an Echo Fighter, I'm making the assumption that they will be able to have their unique qualities on display even though their basic skeleton is based on another fighter.

*That's not to say I want the other characters to be gotten rid of, just made more distinct.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Actually, there are a few reasons to want Echo Fighters:

1. If you like a character, but don't think they'd warrant a full moveset.
2. If the character is never realistically getting in otherwise.
3. If you think they could add an interesting nuance to their parent moveset.

The way I see it is:

Option 1: They spend the resources to make (for example)Bass a fully unique character. End result: I got 1 new character I wanted.

Option 2: They spend almost no resources to make (for example)Bass an echo. Then they spend the resources to make (for example)Hayabusa a fully unique character. End result: I got 2 new characters I wanted for almost the same resources as option 1.

I will choose Option 2. Always and forever.

 

[7NATOR]

On the topic of Echo Fighters, one thing has always made me wonder

Going into Ultimate, Donkey Kong and Metroid were in similiar situations when it came to content and characters. Coming out of it, Both got their Really big Fan demands (K.Rool and Ridley), however one franchise got an extra character in the form of Dark Samus. Dixie was absent

It's weird because i would think Dixie would be a bigger Priority than Dark Samus. She's more popular and relevant than Dark Samus, and was more requested as well, on top of being planned for Brawl (as duo with Diddy). One thing i see mentioned with Echoes is that they are a way to get Fan requested characters by making them clones of others, who otherwise might not make the roster.

Does Dixie's absense, along with other Popular Echo Requests like Shadow imply that Sakurai sees them as eligible to be Playable as their own someday, maybe even in this DLC?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Say, if we'd get more Echo Fighters, who would you suspect would be added? Say we get a 3rd Fighter Pass, only Echo Fighters, 6 characters max. Which characters would you want / suspect ?

Also, since it's DLC, the characters can become more unique, like Ken or Chrom.

Here's 6 Echos I would choose in two categories:

The ones I want:

/Boshi
/Medusa
/Metal Sonic
/Funky Kong
/Black Shadow
/Dry Bowser

The ones I see as most likely:

/Octoling
/Funky Kong
/Dixie Kong
/Dry Bowser
/Shadow
/Proto-Man

I would prefer Dixie as a semi clone but she is probably more likely to be a Echo Fighter if she get's in.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

On the topic of Echo Fighters, one thing has always made me wonder

Going into Ultimate, Donkey Kong and Metroid were in similiar situations when it came to content and characters. Coming out of it, Both got their Really big Fan demands (K.Rool and Ridley), however one franchise got an extra character in the form of Dark Samus. Dixie was absent

It's weird because i would think Dixie would be a bigger Priority than Dark Samus. She's more popular and relevant than Dark Samus, and was more requested as well, on top of being planned for Brawl (as duo with Diddy). One thing i see mentioned with Echoes is that they are a way to get Fan requested characters by making them clones of others, who otherwise might not make the roster.

Does Dixie's absense, along with other Popular Echo Requests like Shadow imply that Sakurai sees them as eligible to be Playable as their own someday, maybe even in this DLC?

Maybe. I do think it's worth noting that Dark Samus is theoretically an easier echo to make than Dixie, since Dixie would need some original moves.

Also there's the weird fact that some of Diddy's tail attacks were removed for some reason. They may have been considering Dixie as a more complex echo and didn't have time or something.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

I have a question. I know CP6 is being released sometime this month but is it confirmed that CP7 will be announced as well?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I have a question. I know CP6 is being released sometime this month but is it confirmed that CP7 will be announced as well?

Not yet, but CP7 most likely will be revealed with the Arms rep though since it is E3 season even without E3.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Not yet, but CP7 most likely will be revealed with the Arms rep though sense it is E3 season even without E3.

I'd be shock if they do honestly. Thanks for answering

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I mean it's been a tradition at every E3 Smash reveal to reveal at least two characters. Yes, we are not getting E3 this year but that shouldn't stop the lineup of characters being announced together like they were originally intended to.

 

[Idon]

I find it a little odd how you decide what people SHOULD want for their prefered characters.

I find it a little more odd that that you feel I should preface every subjective statement with a disclaimer stating it as such.

....But sure, I'm game.

In my opinion, you shouldn't want characters in such that they copy every facet of their moves from another character, as I personally feel like such circumstances are only made to compromise between what is feasible and what most fans of the character would want. I think that's a disappointing way to include new characters and assume that fans of said characters would be disappointed given the expanded time and budget of a post-release pass went into a model-swap. I also feel like many of the characters people have put up here are completely dissimilar to the extent an echo would be all but impossible and make absolutely zero sense.

But that's just me. If you have your heart set on that, be my guest.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Say, if we'd get more Echo Fighters, who would you suspect would be added? Say we get a 3rd Fighter Pass, only Echo Fighters, 6 characters max. Which characters would you want / suspect ?

Also, since it's DLC, the characters can become more unique, like Ken or Chrom.

The one I want most is Tails (). Swap out the up throw, maybe throw in Peach's float, and I'd honestly be really happy with that. I'm most familiar with Tails from being basically a palette swap of Sonic in Sonic 2, so that's honestly my best case scenario. And I think 'Super Tails' exists but isn't too well known, but the Final Smash could also just end up being similar to ZSS's with the Tornado.

These hyposthtical echo+ characters could also take some of the old custom specials as well. In that case, I'd take Midna () in her Twili form. Her proportions are right, but then give her a lot of Zelda's old haughty walk animations, recategorize her magic moves to Darkness type, and then redo Naryu's Love to Naryu's Passion with Darkness effects and the twilight particle effects (or just recolor Naryu's Love to be a green Twilight crystal), give Din's Fire a Solar effect and maybe use Din's Blaze instead, give Farore's Wind some Twilight particle effects and make it have a hitbox throughout the teleport, and have the Phantom summon a Twilight beast instead. The Final Smash could even take Zelda's old Light Arrow with Midna's spear, or it could even be a clone of Triforce of Wisdom by trapping opponents in the Twilight realm.

 

[SnowClaws]

Say, if we'd get more Echo Fighters, who would you suspect would be added? Say we get a 3rd Fighter Pass, only Echo Fighters, 6 characters max. Which characters would you want / suspect ?

Also, since it's DLC, the characters can become more unique, like Ken or Chrom.

"Want(?)"
Morgan (FE: Awakening) or Kana (FE: Fates) - Robin or Corrin
James McCloud (Star Fox) or Marcus (Star Fox) - Fox McCloud
Dark Meta Knight (Kirby) - Meta Knight
Dr. Fire Mario (Dr. Mario) - Dr. Mario
Young Samus (Metroid) - Zero Suit Samus
Classic Sonic (Sonic) - Sonic

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Actually, there are a few reasons to want Echo Fighters:

1. If you like a character, but don't think they'd warrant a full moveset.
2. If the character is never realistically getting in otherwise.
3. If you think they could add an interesting nuance to their parent moveset.

For me, Chrom and Ken are the gold standard for Echo Fighters, and is what I think of when suggesting them. Their different properties and new moves provide a twist to their parent moveset beyond "it's Marth, but objectively better", and while I realize most Echo Fighters aren't like this, they quite frankly should be, and if they're not, I don't want them,* so when I say I would like x character as an Echo Fighter, I'm making the assumption that they will be able to have their unique qualities on display even though their basic skeleton is based on another fighter.

*That's not to say I want the other characters to be gotten rid of, just made more distinct.

I think echoes were always meant to be a little extra with as little development time as possible. Chrom has literally one different move and only slight animation changes and Ken might as well be his own character since he’s about as unique from his own character as Isabelle is from hers. Echoes are there to give people more options in the shortest amount of time as they can. That’s the point. That’s why you can stack them to make them one character. If you differentiate every single Echo to a Ken and Isabelle level then what’s the point of ever making Echoes a thing anyways?

 

[Hinata]

If you differentiate every single Echo to a Ken and Isabelle level then what’s the point of ever making Echoes a thing anyways?

It's a great buzzword for marketing.

 

[PSIGuy]

Echoes are great as filler content, which makes it bizarre they haven't used a single one to fill gaps during DLC production.

 

[Shroob]

Echoes are great as filler content, which makes it bizarre they haven't used a single one to fill gaps during DLC production.

It really is.

With DLC 1, they made it a very specific point "NO ECHOES", but they haven't said that for DLC 2, which makes me slightly hopeful.

 

[Ben Holt]

It really is.

With DLC 1, they made it a very specific point "NO ECHOES", but they haven't said that for DLC 2, which makes me slightly hopeful.

They're still charging $5 per character.
If we get Echoes, they will be extra.

 

[Perkilator]

They're still charging $5 per character.
If we get Echoes, they will be extra.

Maybe for free as part of updates?

 

[Cosmic77]

Echoes still take some time to make and clean up, which is time that could be spent elsewhere. We're not even sure how many people are working on the DLC with Sakurai.

Obviously I'd love more characters, but I don't want to increase the workload to the point where the paid content suffers as a result.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean it's been a tradition at every E3 Smash reveal to reveal at least two characters. Yes, we are not getting E3 this year but that shouldn't stop the lineup of characters being announced together like they were originally intended to.

I wouldn't be surprised if Challenger Pack 7 is delayed. I at least expect it to be revealed at a later date than the ARMS character due to potential development hiccups and the now lack of an incentive to get something presentable by now.

I think echoes were always meant to be a little extra with as little development time as possible. Chrom has literally one different move and only slight animation changes and Ken might as well be his own character since he’s about as unique from his own character as Isabelle is from hers. Echoes are there to give people more options in the shortest amount of time as they can. That’s the point. That’s why you can stack them to make them one character. If you differentiate every single Echo to a Ken and Isabelle level then what’s the point of ever making Echoes a thing anyways?

You answered your own question. While I doubt Ken was as resource intensive as Isabelle, I don't expect every Echo Fighter to be changed as extensively as he was. Even so, a few key moves or attributes would go a long way.

For example, if I were to add Proto Man, I would only completely replace three of his attacks: Up Tilt with Knight Crush, and Dash Attack with Proto Strike, and Final Smash with Big Bang Strike (which, if necessary, can just be another Zero Laser copy paste, except he takes a bit of damage when using it). The rest of the changed would be attribute based: A shield that protects his front from projectiles in the air while he's not attacking, Bowser Jr's damage multiplier (he takes more damage), and his buster only fires two pellets instead of three in exchange for more power (it wouldn't be useless against Bowser for example).

Or for someone who's already in the game, replace Daisy's float with a third jump, and get rid of Toads from her moveset.

EDIT: And heck, I gave Chrom a gold star even with just one move change because it along with his attribute changes creates an interesting deviation from his parent character.

 

[Ben Holt]

Maybe for free as part of updates?

My idea is free Echoes for Switch Online Subscribers.
Which is like $3 if you buy one month JUST for the Echoes.