Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[osby]

Ahem, don't you mean "Stretchy Marth"?

They both have blue hair, after all.

Smh, even ARMS developers are FE biased.

 

[Schnee117]

For an actual rundown on FE's rapier users:
Marth - already in
Phina - a Dancer
Roy - already in
Eliwood - Roy's dad, would use Durandal, has a horse
Eirika - she's shown to actually thrust across the ground, has a horse
Chrom and Lucina - already in, Rapiers are only in their inventories whilst their Falchions are equipped so they aren't necessarily used

I mean... in all fairness, if Smash went for accuracy 100% of the time, then we wouldn't have Byleth using all the weapons they do, Shulk's Monado Arts would be completely different, Ganondorf wouldn't borrow stuff from a character who belongs in a different franchise entirely and Ness/Lucas would use the PSI they actually learn in-game. And a lot more.

...Most importantly, we would never have seen people argue that several ARMS characters could be alts of each other without any problem. That talk wouldn't have even existed, really.

There's a difference between not being fully accurate and just throwing any and all of it out of the window

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean... in all fairness, if Smash went for accuracy 100% of the time, then we wouldn't have Byleth using all the weapons they do, Shulk's Monado Arts would be completely different, Ganondorf wouldn't borrow stuff from a character who belongs in a different franchise entirely and Ness/Lucas would use the PSI they actually learn in-game. And a lot more.

...Most importantly, we would never have seen people argue that several ARMS characters could be alts of each other without any problem. That talk wouldn't have even existed, really.

This is ignoring how the point of Opo's post is how major inconsistencies due to solely being a clone can hurt a character, by bringing up other characters' inconsistencies, you're proving him right

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I agree. If it's a fighter, it should stay true to the base of percentage to launch, off screen to KO model.

That said, if it were to change genres, I'd want it to go all out. Strategy game, RPG, full platformer, heck even a rhythm game, I'd be down for it

Like I said before, Smash's gameplay formula should never change no matter what. We don't want Smash to go away from the original formula like Mario Party has.

 

[Opossum]

I mean... in all fairness, if Smash went for accuracy 100% of the time, then we wouldn't have Byleth using all the weapons they do, Shulk's Monado Arts would be completely different, Ganondorf wouldn't borrow stuff from a character who belongs in a different franchise entirely and Ness/Lucas would use the PSI they actually learn in-game. And a lot more.

...Most importantly, we would never have seen people argue that several ARMS characters could be alts of each other without any problem. That talk wouldn't have even existed, really.

Yes, some liberties are taken, but the thing is, the things I mentioned for Leif, Alm, and Celica are literally character-defining aspects. Leif's Light Brand is essentially the last memento he has of his late mother, and as such it's an important part of him. Alm being left-handed is literally a major plot point, and he was raised in a farming village with informal training, so making him a Marth clone is borderline inconceivable. Celica being a magic user has defined her as a lord since her debut in 1992.

And to be pedantic, Byleth actually can use Aymr, Areadbhar, and Failnaught. The only issue is that they can never use all three at once.

 

[Cosmic77]

Leif, whose main form of attack is shooting giant magic triangles out of his sword and after promotion can use any weapon type except for dark magic.

Alm, who has an incredibly aggressive swordplay style and literally can't be a Marth clone due to being left handed.

Celica, who is not even just more graceful than even Marth is, but who is a magic based lord before a sword based one.

If you're willing to stretch these characters THAT FAR, you're not arguing in good faith and don't really know what you're talking about. Literally the only character you mentioned that would work would be Seliph, and even he promotes to a mounted unit, which Marth doesn't do.

Aside from Alm being left-handed, something that isn't really that hard to work around, you didn't really provide any reasons why they couldn't work as a Marth clone. All you did was emphasize what else they can do that would make them unique, which is something I saw with quite a few of the characters who ended up being a clone durning Smash's lifetime. I mean, there's already a precedent for Celica working as a Marth clone thanks to Warriors.

You and others are free to disagree, but there's nothing that convinces me that Roy, Lucina, and Chrom are the limit to potential Marth clones. As I already said before, I don't expect more Marth clones, and I highly doubt any of the characters I listed would get in that way. Still, no one has really convinced me that I'm wrong in saying Marth's moveset is a basic and straightforward enough to the point where it would work with several characters. It's not remarkable or unique to him in any way.

 

[osby]

Friendly reminder that you are allowed to be not knowledgable enough about something to have an informed opinion.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Aside from Alm being left-handed, something that isn't really that hard to work around, you didn't really provide any reasons why they couldn't work as a Marth clone. All you did was emphasize what else they can do that would make them unique, which is something I saw with quite a few of the characters who ended up being a clone durning Smash's lifetime. I mean, there's already a precedent for Celica working as a Marth clone thanks to Warriors.

You and others are free to disagree, but there's nothing that convinces me that Roy, Lucina, and Chrom are the limit to potential Marth clones. As I already said before, I don't expect more Marth clones, and I highly doubt any of the characters I listed would get in that way. Still, no one has really convinced me that I'm wrong in saying Marth's moveset is a basic and straightforward enough to the point where it would work with several characters. It's not remarkable or unique to him in any way.

In that case, Zacien can work as DHD echo. After all, only Crowned has the sword, so there's no issues with that. That's what you sound like right now

 

[Schnee117]

Aside from Alm being left-handed, something that isn't really that hard to work around, you didn't really provide any reasons why they couldn't work as a Marth clone. All you did was emphasize what else they can do that would make them unique, which is something I saw with quite a few of the characters who ended up being a clone durning Smash's lifetime. I mean, there's already a precedent for Celica working as a Marth clone thanks to Warriors.

You and others are free to disagree, but there's nothing that convinces me that Roy, Lucina, and Chrom are the limit to potential Marth clones. As I already said before, I don't expect more Marth clones, and I highly doubt any of the characters I listed would get in that way. Still, no one has really convinced me that I'm wrong in saying Marth's moveset is a basic and straightforward enough to the point where it would work with several characters. It's not remarkable or unique to him in any way.

Has no one convinced you?
Or do you just not want to listen?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also, Alm has a shield. It's admittedly only used in 1 attack animation, but he fights with a shield who as far as I know, is the only FE protag to fight with one except for Great Lord Chrom and Lucina

 

[3BitSaurus]

There's a difference between not being fully accurate and just throwing any and all of it out of the window

This is ignoring how the point of Opo's post is how major inconsistencies due to solely being a clone can hurt a character, by bringing up other characters' inconsistencies, you're proving him right

Yes, they hurt characters. And yet, they happen. That's what I think Cosmic77 's point was, if my interpretation of their OP is correct.

Isn't that literally the point that was made during the ARMS discussions a few weeks back? I thought everyone that is saying otherwise now agreed back then?

 

[Schnee117]

I thought everyone that is saying otherwise now agreed back then?

No?
You're generalising people who didn't even take part.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yes, they hurt characters. And yet, they happen. That's what I think the Cosmic77 's point was, if my interpretation of their OP is correct.

Isn't that literally the point that was made during the ARMS discussions a few weeks back? I thought everyone that is saying otherwise now agreed back then?

There's a difference between "It happens sometimes and it sucks" and "you can give it to literally anyone with a sword and it'll be fine"

 

[Opossum]

Aside from Alm being left-handed, something that isn't really that hard to work around, you didn't really provide any reasons why they couldn't work as a Marth clone. All you did was emphasize what else they can do that would make them unique, which is something I saw with quite a few of the characters who ended up being a clone durning Smash's lifetime. I mean, there's already a precedent for Celica working as a Marth clone thanks to Warriors.

You and others are free to disagree, but there's nothing that convinces me that Roy, Lucina, and Chrom are the limit to potential Marth clones. As I already said before, I don't expect more Marth clones, and I highly doubt any of the characters I listed would get in that way. Still, no one has really convinced me that I'm wrong in saying Marth's moveset is a basic and straightforward enough to the point where it would work with several characters. It's not remarkable or unique to him in any way.

Literally one look at Shadows of Valentia would prove that Alm and Celica would fight nothing like Marth.

To put it into perspective, Alm and Celica are literally closer to Link and Zelda than to Marth.

 

[Cosmic77]

In that case, Zacien can work as DHD echo. After all, only Crowned has the sword, so there's no issues with that. That's what you sound like right now

Wasn't aware Zacian had a duck on its back that could attack and carry Zacian around by flying.

Duck Hunt has several properties that can't be tacked on to other characters, even if it was forced. My point with Marth is that most of his moveset isn't exclusive to him, which is why Sakurai was able to make three clones of him in the first place. If he had magic like Robin or long dragon appendages like Corrin, I wouldn't be making this argument.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Mario could have made use of power ups that would have given him more options but would be lost on hit...

Thing is though, you can't really give Mario gimmicks like that since he's supposed to be beginner friendly, and throwing in Power Ups otherwise would make the moveset feel very hodge-podgey. If you wanted to make him stand out more mechanically, I think the best way to do this is to focus on how he moves.

Marth's moveset is a basic and straightforward enough to the point where it would work with several characters.

This is true. Marth doesn't do anything that another sword user couldn't physically do unless they had a greatsword or something.

It's not remarkable or unique to him in any way.

This is false. It was specially crafted for him and takes a lot of inspiration from his home games. The fact that other characters have appropriated it doesn't really change that.

Isn't that literally the point that was made during the ARMS discussions a few weeks back? I thought everyone that is saying otherwise now agreed back then?

The difference is that for ARMS, people generally agreed that to do so would be a good thing. For this, the general consensus is that it's bad.

The truth: It's always bad. You should never stick characters together all willy-nilly.
EDIT: And if you do stick two characters together, their unique qualities need to shine through or you did a bad job representing them.

 

[Perkilator]

Literally one look at Shadows of Valentia would prove that Alm and Celica would fight nothing like Marth.

To put it into perspective, Alm and Celica are literally closer to Link and Zelda than to Marth.

You could probably even call their game "The Legend of Zelda: Shadows of Valentia".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wasn't aware Zacian had a duck on its back that could attack and carry Zacian around by flying.

Duck Hunt has several properties that can't be tacked on to other characters, even if it was forced. My point with Marth is that most of his moveset isn't exclusive to him, which is why Sakurai was able to make three clones of him in the first place. If he had magic like Robin or long dragon appendages like Corrin, I wouldn't be making this argument.

Psh nah it works fine, after all, if having a character known for being a magic user have literally just Marth's moveset with zero magic is fine, as you yourself just said, then Zacien as a DHD echo is fine too, even your example of why Celica as a Marth clone works has her use magic and she was rushed in that game

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Psh nah it works fine, after all, if having a character known for being a magic user have literally just Marth's moveset with zero magic is fine, as you yourself just said, then Zacien as a DHD echo is fine too, even your example of why Celica as a Marth clone works has her use magic and she was rushed in that game

Ok, I don't want to contribute to the sarcasm, but now I have the mental image of a tiny Zacien with a Ducklett on it's back and it's hilarious.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thing is though, you can't really give Mario gimmicks like that since he's supposed to be beginner friendly, and throwing in Power Ups otherwise would make the moveset feel very hodge-podgey. If you wanted to make him stand out more mechanically, I think the best way to do this is to focus on how he moves.

Honestly, he's a lot harder to use thanks to F.L.U.D.D. alone, which is hardly user-friendly. Kirby's more user-friendly in comparison now. He's still a decent starter character, but has gotten less user-friendly because of a gimmick. So pretty much your point already happened, unfortunately.

Not that I dislike the idea of F.L.U.D.D. It's just underutilized right now. It's only good for edgeguarding.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok, I don't want to contribute to the sarcasm, but now I have the mental image of a tiny Zacien with a Ducklett on it's back and it's hilarious.

Ducklett? Outta here with gen V, that gen only sold a measly 5 million, it'd CLEARLY be Sirfetchd who tosses the leek shield as the can of beans and clay pidgeon

 

[Cosmic77]

The truth: It's always bad. You should never stick characters together all willy-nilly.

Ehh... I disagree. As much as I love Metroid, I'll just flat-out say that Dark Samus had no hope of getting in unless she was a clone. Same with most of the other Echoes.

It's an all or nothing sort of deal. Take the character as a clone, or accept that they won't be in the game at all.

Psh nah it works fine, after all, if having a character known for being a magic user have literally just Marth's moveset with zero magic is fine, as you yourself just said, then Zacien as a DHD echo is fine too, even your example of why Celica as a Marth clone works has her use magic and she was rushed in that game

There's a difference between ignoring a character's unique properties to make them a clone and ignoring obvious obstacles that would otherwise make it impossible for a character to be a clone.

Celica could work as a Marth clone, but she wouldn't have magic. Zacian could never work as a DH clone unless Sakurai somehow found a way to make it kicking a can, flying by a tiny creature carrying it, and cowering in fear as large explosions go off around it feel somewhat believable.

 

[Digital Hazard]

So, I have a question to any staff members here:
Why don't we have these as emotes yet?

When have these?


Also why isn't Alph's Ultimate icon next to Olimar's?

I dunno if any other should count

> marth clone discussions

hasnt it been established that every character is a clone of marth?

View attachment 274033

see look they're all marth

now lets stop fighting and talk about why spring man will springaling into smash and go boiyoiyoing

-Twin Marths
-Masochist Marth
-Young Marth
-Solid Marth
-The Very Best Marth
-Water Marth
-Plant Marth
-Furry Marth
-Squid Marth
-HI I'M MARTH
-Too Big Marth
-Whip Marth
-Hunk Marth
-Dad Marth
-Glowing Marth
-King M. Marth
-Fluffy Marth
-Thumbs Up Marth
-Wrestler Marth
-Piranha Marth
-Society Marth
-RNG Marth
-GUH-MARTH!
-MARTH YOU OKAY?
-Teacher Marth

 

[frozolloyd]

Yes, they hurt characters. And yet, they happen. That's what I think the Cosmic77 's point was, if my interpretation of their OP is correct.

Isn't that literally the point that was made during the ARMS discussions a few weeks back? I thought everyone that is saying otherwise now agreed back then?

Thanks for saying that because that's exactly what I was thinking while watching this argument unfold. I think the reason why so many people are arguing this point is unlike ARMS, Fire Emblem has a very active community on this thread that will immediately point out how cloning said character ruins the character, while ARMS sadly doesn't have nearly as big of a community to defend them. Just as making a magic user like Celica a clone or skin of Marth would ruin the character, I personally think the idea of making the sneaky, teleporting ninja Ninjara the exact same fighting style as the boxer Springman is doing a huge disservice to the characters, as well as the entire game of ARMS itself. Especially because unlike fire emblem characters, we already know they don't play exactly the same in a fighting game, because they literally come from a fighting game that showcased that. Fortunately, we only have to deal with these "every ARMS character can be a skin" idea for a few more weeks at the most. And if it is revealed that there is only ONE ARMS rep, I hope we can move on from this idea that X character MUST have alt characters, even though only 2 characters extensively do it (not counting gender swaps of course).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ehh... I disagree. As much as I love Metroid, I'll just flat-out say that Dark Samus had no hope of getting in unless she was a clone. Same with most of the other Echoes.

It's an all or nothing sort of deal. Take the character as a clone, or accept that they won't be in the game at all.



There's a difference between ignoring a character's unique properties to make them a clone and ignoring obvious obstacles that would otherwise make it impossible for a character to be a clone.

Celica could work as a Marth clone, but she wouldn't have magic. Zacian could never work as a DH clone unless Sakurai somehow found a way to make it kicking a can, flying by a tiny creature carrying it, and cowering in fear as large explosions go off around it feel somewhat believable.

It's as believable as Zacien walking forward to turn 180 degrees, as believable as Celica not using any magic at all despite always being depicted with magic and as believable as "we can sue Nintendo for false advertising because of Bayonetta being in Smash 4"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly, he's a lot harder to use thanks to F.L.U.D.D. alone, which is hardly user-friendly. Kirby's more user-friendly in comparison now. He's still a decent starter character, but has gotten less user-friendly because of a gimmick. So pretty much your point already happened, unfortunately.

Not that I dislike the idea of F.L.U.D.D. It's just underutilized right now. It's only good for edgeguarding.

While I don't think F.L.U.D.D. makes Mario more difficult to use, you do have a point in that it's not intuitive since if you don't really know about the concept of edge-guarding, you're gonna have a tough time finding out what the heck the "attack" is for and kind of file it away as a garbage move (which wouldn't be entirely incorrect). A projectile attack featuring Cappy would probably be a better design decision for him to be honest.

Ehh... I disagree. As much as I love Metroid, I'll just flat-out say that Dark Samus had no hope of getting in unless she was a clone. Same with most of the other Echoes.

It's an all or nothing sort of deal. Take the character as a clone, or accept that they won't be in the game at all.

You forgot to read the fine print I added afterward:

You should never stick characters together all willy-nilly.
EDIT: And if you do stick two characters together, their unique qualities need to shine through or you did a bad job representing them.

Clone characters all you want, but if you can't let them shine in their own right, you done did them dirty.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh, as multiple people are arguing about how people were fine with the ARMS character being a composite, please point me to any of my posts in which I said I was fine with it, or rather, anyone's posts who just now disagreed with Cosmic's bizarre Marth take. The venn diagram of these groups are flatout 2 feet apart

 

[Cosmic77]

Thanks for saying that because that's exactly what I was thinking while watching this argument unfold. I think the reason why so many people are arguing this point is unlike ARMS, Fire Emblem has a very active community on this thread that will immediately point out how cloning said character ruins the character, while ARMS sadly doesn't have nearly as big of a community to defend them. Just as making a magic user like Celica a clone or skin of Marth would ruin the character, I personally think the idea of making the sneaky, teleporting ninja Ninjara the exact same fighting style as the boxer Springman is doing a huge disservice to the characters, as well as the entire game of ARMS itself. Especially because unlike fire emblem characters, we already know they don't play exactly the same in a fighting game, because they literally come from a fighting game that showcased that. Fortunately, we only have to deal with these "every ARMS character can be a skin" idea for a few more weeks at the most. And if it is revealed that there is only ONE ARMS rep, I hope we can move on from this idea that X character MUST have alt characters, even though only 2 characters extensively do it.

In all honesty, I think there are a lot of people who would agree with my point if I applied it to other franchises. It just so happens that the current franchise that we're discussing is FE, and people can be over protective of it sometimes.

There are several ARMS characters who have a similar enough build and could work as a clone of Spring Man. Aside from two special abilities and differences in size, all the characters are identical to each other. Now am I saying a Nijara who can't teleport, a Ribbon Girl who can't jump four times, or a Min Min who doesn't kick is my ideal representation of those characters? Of course not. I want something better for them. Still, cloning is possible, and I might be willing to compromise with an alt or an Echo if it means I'll be able to play as the character I wanted. That's better than nothing.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Jesus Christ some people read anything that can vaguely seem to be attacking Fire Emblem and they'll automatically turn defensive to the point of parody.

You can take Cosmic's original post, change it into being about Fox and the space furries, and it would still make sense. Chill tf down and realize you're both arguing the same point.

Marth's moveset is generic enough that many FE characters had it applied to them, with their personalities being conveyed (with varying degrees of success) through different animations and slight moveset differences that thankfully amount to different playstyles for each character.

The guy expressed a desire for more unique movesets for Fire Emblem characters (something I agree with, personally I wish that Chrom had a unique moveset, as I think that there are many ways to be a swordfighter) and more Echoes of other movesets. How the hell is that so controversial? Are people just looking to start a fight the second someone has an opinion on Fire Emblem?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think its fairly clear that Marth is purposely designed to be reflective of his character in Fire Emblem.

The only reason that Roy, Lucina and Chrom share aspects of his moveset is that they were last minute clones.

Even then when Roy made his grand return, he got Luigified to have his more unique aspects stand out while still keeping elements of his old moveset to not alienate his old players.

They don't share moves cause its such a basic moveset anyone can do it. That's like saying Ganondorf copied Falcon because Falcon's moveset is so boring that anyone could do it. Development caused the clones, not the moveset being generic.



On a separate note, I still don't understand why Lucina's personality was butchered in Smash.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Ehh... I disagree. As much as I love Metroid, I'll just flat-out say that Dark Samus had no hope of getting in unless she was a clone. Same with most of the other Echoes.

It's an all or nothing sort of deal. Take the character as a clone, or accept that they won't be in the game at all.



There's a difference between ignoring a character's unique properties to make them a clone and ignoring obvious obstacles that would otherwise make it impossible for a character to be a clone.

Celica could work as a Marth clone, but she wouldn't have magic. Zacian could never work as a DH clone unless Sakurai somehow found a way to make it kicking a can, flying by a tiny creature carrying it, and cowering in fear as large explosions go off around it feel somewhat believable.

Fine, we’ll make Zacian stand on its hind legs and use one paw to swing a sword around and make him an Echo of Marth since dog with a sword is all that really matters with getting him into Smash and that technically fits the bill.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Jesus Christ some people read anything that can vaguely seem to be attacking Fire Emblem and they'll automatically turn defensive to the point of parody.

You can take Cosmic's original post, change it into being about Fox and the space furries, and it would still make sense. Chill tf down and realize you're both arguing the same point.

Marth's moveset is generic enough that many FE characters had it applied to them, with their personalities being conveyed (with varying degrees of success) through different animations and slight moveset differences that thankfully amount to different playstyles for each character.

The guy expressed a desire for more unique movesets for Fire Emblem characters (something I agree with, personally I wish that Chrom had a unique moveset, as I think that there are many ways to be a swordfighter) and more Echoes of other movesets. How the hell is that so controversial? Are people just looking to start a fight the second someone has an opinion on Fire Emblem?

I just hate the argument entirely. The reason I wouldn't argue for the Star Fox cast is because I don't have enough knowledge on the franchise and cast to form an opinion on that

 

[frozolloyd]

Oh, as multiple people are arguing about how people were fine with the ARMS character being a composite, please point me to any of my posts in which I said I was fine with it, or rather, anyone's posts who just now disagreed with Cosmic's bizarre Marth take. The venn diagram of these groups are flatout 2 feet apart

A quick look at this thread reveals that there are literally only 2 posting on that subject, the initial post and mine. And my post wasn't even calling out anyone in this thread of doing that, I was just commenting on 1. why people in this instance are actually calling out this idea and not in the ARMS case and 2. how I personally think the idea of an ARMS composite is stupid. At no point did I say "Oh hey, everyone viewing this thread should have defended ARMS back then" or even imply that. I apologize if you thought that I was implying that, because I wasn't.

 

[Cosmic77]

Jesus Christ some people read anything that can vaguely seem to be attacking Fire Emblem and they'll automatically turn defensive to the point of parody.

You can take Cosmic's original post, change it into being about Fox and the space furries, and it would still make sense. Chill tf down and realize you're both arguing the same point.

Marth's moveset is generic enough that many FE characters had it applied to them, with their personalities being conveyed (with varying degrees of success) through different animations and slight moveset differences that thankfully amount to different playstyles for each character.

The guy expressed a desire for more unique movesets for Fire Emblem characters (something I agree with, personally I wish that Chrom had a unique moveset, as I think that there are many ways to be a swordfighter) and more Echoes of other movesets. How the hell is that so controversial? Are people just looking to start a fight the second someone has an opinion on Fire Emblem?

I think you summarized how I feel better than I did.

 

[Schnee117]

"Why do people get so defensive about FE?" asks person who then goes on to further perpetuate why people get defensive about it.

Like damn, have some self awareness lmao

 

[GoodGrief741]

I just hate the argument entirely. The reason I wouldn't argue for the Star Fox cast is because I don't have enough knowledge on the franchise and cast to form an opinion on that

You can make an argument in good faith instead of automatically taking an aggressive tone and devolving the discussion into "oh admit you just hate Fire Emblem". You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, as the saying goes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A quick look at this thread reveals that there are literally only 2 posting on that subject, the initial post and mine. And my post wasn't even calling out anyone in this thread of doing that, I was just commenting on 1. why people in this instance are actually calling out this idea and not in the ARMS case and 2. how I personally think the idea of an ARMS composite is stupid. At no point did I say "Oh hey, everyone viewing this thread should have defended ARMS back then" or even imply. I apologize if you thought that I was implying that, because I wasn't.

Sorry, out of my experience with this site, especially this thread, people ALWAYS assume that people arguing A and people arguing B are the same, which is why I interpretted your post as another "Strange, you say B but you also said A?" like Saurus did.

 

[Arcanir]

I was going to disagree with you, but now that I think about it, Lucario (and pretty much every Pokémon) take a more brute force approach to combat. It's kind of amazing how Sakurai was able to come up with something that is both incredibly random and makes perfect sense at the same time.

I guess the difference between Lucario from Super Smash Bros. and Lucario from something like Pokkén Tournament is that the former is Lucario as an individual and the latter is Lucario as little more than a representative of his species.

Thinking about it, Lucario is one of the characters that could use a touch-up of some sort. His appearance in Brawl predated his appearance in the main anime and he was put on the roster likely before DP released so it makes sense that he was primarily based on the movie and didn't have what would be major recurring moves or animations in his character like Bone Rush (though the Naruto Run should've been there as that was in the movie). Smash 4 onwards though, those traits not being present becomes odder as they've become staples of the Pokémon that almost every appearance of it has had, so he's kind of a relic of his original Smash appearance in some respects. So he could use a revisit to be updated to include more from the species' other appearances so he feels stronger as a member of his species rather then being stuck to one of them.

On a separate note, I still don't understand why Lucina's personality was butchered in Smash.

To be fair that's a localization issue. The lines are about the same between versions, but it was interpreted differently as in the Japanese version Lucina is more respectful and in line with her Awakening appearance whereas English Lucina was directed to sound more condescending.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You can make an argument in good faith instead of automatically taking an aggressive tone and devolving the discussion into "oh admit you just hate Fire Emblem". You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, as the saying goes.

I mean, saying characters who fight absolutely nothing like Marth on basis of using magic isn't exactly arguing in good faith either, but you're only aggressive to the people saying "what no Celica cannot work as a Marth clone", so why are you trying to catch flies with vinegar yourself?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Sorry, out of my experience with this site, especially this thread, people ALWAYS assume that people arguing A and people arguing B are the same, which is why I interpretted your post as another "Strange, you say B but you also said A?" like Saurus did.

...Except I didn't say your name. Or anyone specific, for that matter. I was talking about the thread in general.