Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

What ARMS character do you want to see for FP#6?


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Ben Holt

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How the hell do you fear for something you want? My point is that nothing Zippo has said has been accurate, I'm not asking for a 100% track record, but I want more than like 5%
Ok. I'm not literally afraid. The entire concept of gaming speculation is ultimately meaningless.
But I certainly hope that the rumor of no Nintendo Direct in June is false.
Also, wasn't Zippo the one that first leaked the "no Nintendo Direct in June" thing?
 

Cutie Gwen

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Ok. I'm not literally afraid. The entire concept of gaming speculation is ultimately meaningless.
But I certainly hope that the rumor of no Nintendo Direct in June is false.
Also, wasn't Zippo the one that first leaked the "no Nintendo Direct in June" thing?
Multiple people have been saying that multiple times, the first source I could find being VentureBeat
 
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Masahiro Sakurai: "I love you, Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus Aran, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox McCloud, Pikachu, Luigi, Ness, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Princess Peach Toadstool, Bowser Koopa, Popo & Nana the Ice Climbers, Sheik, Princess Zelda, Dr. Mario, Pichu, Falco Lombardi, Marth, Young Link, Ganondorf Dragmire, Mewtwo, Roy, Mr. Game & Watch, Meta Knight, Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, Solid Snake, Ike, Pokémon Trainers Red and Leaf with Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, Diddy Kong, Lucas, Sonic the Hedgehog, King Dedede, Pikmin & Olimar of each species except Rock oh and also Alph, Lucario, Robotic Operating Buddy AKA R.O.B., Toon Link, Wolf O'Donnell, Villager from Animal Crossing, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina & Luma, Little Mac, Greninja, Mii Brawler, Mii Swordfighter, Mii Gunner, Palutena, Dark Pit, Pac-Man, Lucina, Robin, Shulk, Bowser Jr. and Koopalings, Duck Hunt dog and duck, Ryu, Cloud Strife, Corrin, Cereza AKA Bayonetta, Inkling, Princess Daisy, Ridley Simon Belmont, Richter Belmont, Chrom, Dark Samus, King K. Rool, Isabelle, Ken Masters, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Ren Amamiya AKA Joker, Heroes from Dragon Quest in general, Banjo & Kazooie, Terry Bogard, Byleth Eisner, a character from ARMS and five others~" -gives each one a good night kiss-

-Then he turned to the side and saw every other single fictional character in existence staring at him-

"...Ew, stay away from my sight, you dumb trash!"
C'mon you used full names for almost every character but missed the opportunity to namedrop Douglas J. Falcon? Smh
 

Ben Holt

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Multiple people have been saying that multiple times, the first source I could find being VentureBeat
Yea. I just looked it up before this conversation, and that was a speculation piece.
The first "leak" I found of the no Nintendo Direct in June thing was from Zippo, whom you just discredited.
But I don't want to get into an argument.
I didn't look too hard, so I'm not going to die on any hill here.
Whether the leaks are accurate or not, I strongly hope that this particular story is false.
 

Spongeboob

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My interest for speculation beyond the ARMS character has died down a bit. Not because "it's predictable" or something; rather, it's because it's too vague, and with Byleth's inclusion at the end of first Fighters Pass, I don't see anything to go on anymore, as it had reassured us that (almost) anything can happen. At least people could pretend that someone like Dante or Arle were a lock for #75. Now it's just a waiting game.
I was (apparently poorly) alluding to that fact, yes.
More like me not comprehending that you did that
filename.JPG
 

zumaddy

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Do you think we'll be told the series of another DLC fighter before they're revealed again like ARMS, or just a one-off due to the overall uncertainty of that mini Direct?
 

osby

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Do you think we'll be told the series of another DLC fighter before they're revealed again like ARMS, or just a one-off due to the overall uncertainty of that mini Direct?
I think that was unique to ARMS.

There's not many games that you can limit the possible characters with a dozen or so characters.
 
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I think that was unique to ARMS.

There's not many games that you can limit the possible characters with a dozen or so characters.
"The fighter included in wave 3 of Super Smash Bros Ultimate DLC will be...

...Joining the battle from Banjo-Kazooie!"

"THEY DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY BANJO! MY BOY MUMBO HAS A CHANCE!"
 
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Masahiro Sakurai: "I love you, Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus Aran, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox McCloud, Pikachu, Luigi, Ness, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Princess Peach Toadstool, Bowser Koopa, Popo & Nana the Ice Climbers, Sheik, Princess Zelda, Dr. Mario, Pichu, Falco Lombardi, Marth, Young Link, Ganondorf Dragmire, Mewtwo, Roy, Mr. Game & Watch, Meta Knight, Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, Solid Snake, Ike, Pokémon Trainers Red and Leaf with Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, Diddy Kong, Lucas, Sonic the Hedgehog, King Dedede, Pikmin & Olimar of each species except Rock oh and also Alph, Lucario, Robotic Operating Buddy AKA R.O.B., Toon Link, Wolf O'Donnell, Villager from Animal Crossing, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina & Luma, Little Mac, Greninja, Mii Brawler, Mii Swordfighter, Mii Gunner, Palutena, Dark Pit, Pac-Man, Lucina, Robin, Shulk, Bowser Jr. and Koopalings, Duck Hunt dog and duck, Ryu, Cloud Strife, Corrin, Cereza AKA Bayonetta, Inkling, Princess Daisy, Ridley Simon Belmont, Richter Belmont, Chrom, Dark Samus, King K. Rool, Isabelle, Ken Masters, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Ren Amamiya AKA Joker, Heroes from Dragon Quest in general, Banjo & Kazooie, Terry Bogard, Byleth Eisner, a character from ARMS and five others~" -gives each one a good night kiss-

-Then he turned to the side and saw every other single fictional character in existence staring at him-

"...Ew, stay away from my sight, you dumb trash!"
Seeing this completely out of context was wild
 

SpectreJordan

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Do you think we'll be told the series of another DLC fighter before they're revealed again like ARMS, or just a one-off due to the overall uncertainty of that mini Direct?
Someone brought this up a couple days ago & someone else mentioned they could do it for a company instead of a game. I think that’d be pretty fun.
 

UserGoozer

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Honestly I'm convinced that neither Nintendo or Square cares about Geno considering we've gotten multiple games in which Mario crosses over with Square Enix since SMRPG yet Geno was never included in them. Apparantly Fortune Street on the Wii has the Forest Maze song too but Geno's still nowhere to be seen
Slight correction: Forest Maze is not in the Fortune Street OST.

Instead, it has "Hello, Happy Kingdom!" as Peach’s Castle.

Edit: But yeah, your point still stands. There’s a SMRPG song in the game, but Geno (and Mallow) is nowhere to be seen.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Chrom will never be a good example because quite literally the only reason he's playable is just because they could make him a glorified alt costume of Roy, just without the hilt sweetspot and with Ike's up B.

All in all, it's just a consolation prize for him missing his one brief window of opportunity back in Smash 4, same thing with Dark Samus. So unless you're saying Rex could end up as an echo of Shulk....
Chrom isn't a glorified Roy costume, he's very, very different for a Echo Fighter. And he got a different Up B. Pro level players also say they are playing very different, which they do.

Also he wasn't picked because he'd be a easy costume, he was picked because he's popular, and Roy is also sort of based around a middle ground between Marth and Ike, which Sakurai said was how Chrom always ended up in concept , so it's logical Chrom made it in like this.
 
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C'mon you used full names for almost every character but missed the opportunity to namedrop Douglas J. Falcon? Smh
or Andy Summers
or Ryu Suzaku
or Ryu's other known name, Rick Wheeler, cousin to Jesse Wheeler, cousin to famous Duelist Joey Wheeler
 
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Also he wasn't picked because he'd be a easy costume, he was picked because he's popular
To be fair, I also can see as a factor that they had to model him anyway because of Robin's Final Smash. That would make bringing a popular character even easier.

Then again, I don't know if Chrom's playable and Final Smash models are the same.
 
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Chrom isn't a glorified Roy costume, he's very, very different for a Echo Fighter. And he got a different Up B. Pro level players also say they are playing very different, which they do.
They just took the hilt sweetspot off his attacks and also changed his Up B. He has more going for him than someone like Daisy but he was still effectively a very simple and cost efficient character to make.
 
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or Andy Summers
or Ryu Suzaku
or Ryu's other known name, Rick Wheeler, cousin to Jesse Wheeler, cousin to famous Duelist Joey Wheeler
Lest we forget:

Doug Bowser is obviously distantly related to current Washington D.C mayor Muriel Bowser (how else could they share the same last name?), Now why am I bringing up a politician?

Nintendo's plans are obviously a Bowser / Bowser 2020 ticket.

:4pacman:

Hi. Haven't looked at smash speculation in a while. What's new? :)

i do want min min to be the rep for arms. that's be cool.
Not much has happened since then, but things are probably going to start moving once the ARMS rep's revealed.
 
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Also he wasn't picked because he'd be a easy costume, he was picked because he's popular, and Roy is also sort of based around a middle ground between Marth and Ike, which Sakurai said was how Chrom always ended up in concept , so it's logical Chrom made it in like this.
So it wouldn't be too illogical to consider "Mike" as a nickname for Chrom, due to him being an in-between of Marth and Ike?
Interesting, very interesting...

Adobe_20200606_123005.jpg
 
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Yea. I just looked it up before this conversation, and that was a speculation piece.
The first "leak" I found of the no Nintendo Direct in June thing was from Zippo, whom you just discredited.
But I don't want to get into an argument.
I didn't look too hard, so I'm not going to die on any hill here.
Whether the leaks are accurate or not, I strongly hope that this particular story is false.
Why does it matter? No direct /= no new information. Does it really matter how the information is presented?
 
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They do care about SMRPG, however, porting it through VC/SNES Classic, NoA mentioning Geno and Mallow themselves in 2018 on Twitter, Geno was a cameo in Superstar Saga at least (maybe because of popularity but idk, I just remember someone saying that), and they had to have approved his inclusion in Smash as a costume/spirit.
I still don't think that really shows us that Nintendo really cares that much about Geno. A bad habit I've noticed with the Geno fandom is conflating the love for Super Mario RPG as something that directly correlates with the same overwhelming support for Geno himself. Yes, Geno is an essential element of the game as a major party member and plays the role as a deuteragonist in the game... but there's also a lot of love for Super Mario RPG the game itself that doesn't translate to overwhelming support for Geno, let alone Geno in Smash. Nintendo knows people care about Super Mario RPG enough to re-release it a couple of times, but that's almost certainly not a huge investment on their part and they've figured out where they stand with Square Enix for some time. Sure, Super Mario RPG got re-released on the SNES Classic... but so did every other major Square RPG from the SNES era besides Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy II (IV). And an individual can care about Geno and Mallow enough to reference them on Twitter without too much issue (also that's just such a tenuous link anyway, NOA mentions everything under the sun on Twitter).

Them recognizing the value of Super Mario RPG being ported doesn't really equate to actively investing an entire fighter in Smash or any extended love of the character, and Superstar Saga's original cameo was likely because of how many Super Mario RPG staff members worked on it and they probably asked Nintendo if they could get the rights to that cameo and they allowed it to happen.

While it doesn't benefit Geno in any way, I don't think the fact that Square Enix has properties that would make more sense from a promotional standpoint is necessarily a dealbreaker for the puppet. Both Microsoft and Nintendo would've benefitted far more from including a more mainstream and active series like Halo or Minecraft in Smash, but opted to go for the longtime fan-favourite in Banjo-Kazooie instead.

Sometimes, fulfilling a popular request with the core fanbase is the better move than following conventional wisdom. Sakurai has publicly affiliated with the character before and there's no denying there's a demand for Geno. Square has also been relatively liberal about Geno when it comes to Smash, seeing how they were willing to let Geno be a Mii costume and spirit in the past. Plus, they already have their two key franchises in Smash, so it's not like Square Enix hasn't gotten increased visibility from Smash. The biggest remaining factor at this point is if Nintendo thinks it's worthwhile to pursue Geno as a full pack. Geno's far from guaranteed, but he's in the best position he's ever been in.
Again, the issue becomes, what makes Geno anymore uniquely qualified as a popular request? One of the reasons Banjo & Kazooie happened was Microsoft's very active role in making it happen. It was made a significantly easier request to realize when the rights holder was practically opening the door and inviting Nintendo for not only a requested fighter, but collaborations as companies in general. Geno has basically nothing on that front outside of a potential Super Mario RPG 2 if they really decide to go that route. Square Enix and Nintendo have been pretty damn close entities for multiple generations again, so there's no new relationship there. Plus, there's the issue of other fan requests:
  • Rex & Pyra - Owned by Nintendo and promotes their own Xenoblade content
  • Waluigi - Owned by Nintendo, adds to the Mario content in the games with an active side character.
  • Bandanna Waddle Dee - Owned by Nintendo, adds Kirby content.
  • Lloyd Irving - Owned by Bandai Namco who codevelop the game, major request since Brawl and Geno's era, also promotes one of the biggest JRPG series not actively referenced in Smash.
  • Phoenix Wright - Owned by Capcom who work closely with Nintendo on Smash, notable request for years, advertises a much beloved series that is closely related to Nintendo.
They all bring a lot to the table for Nintendo or the other companies involved and promote brands in major ways that are beneficial to the companies involved. Geno's only real "qualifiers" are that he's a further out there pick and he's just been requested longer, which in no way, shape, or form actually gives him much to qualify as a fan pick. Square Enix probably won't object if they pick him (though they also could just not be happy with the concept of him representing their brand even with Cloud and Hero already in too), but Nintendo has the least reason to pick him of all companies involved. He makes a subsection of Smash fans happy... That's it. He's already one of the most controversial fan requests across the board, and one that has actually started declining in popularity since base game launched for a variety of factors. There's demand for a ton of characters, including a few that have popularity from the Brawl era too for longevity sake, and some that have significantly overshadowed Geno as a request too. He's just inconsistent and controversial as a request and that put hims in a really awkward situation.

I have to follow this up with the fact that I genuinely love Super Mario RPG and Geno because it's harsh. I'd love to see him in Smash, but I've never once been surprised by the fact that he's just not ever been a priority for everyone involved.
 

Diddy Kong

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They just took the hilt sweetspot off his attacks and also changed his Up B. He has more going for him than someone like Daisy but he was still effectively a very simple and cost efficient character to make.
Doesn't matter , the end result gives us a way different character than Roy. Chrom is more unique in his playstyle than Isabelle is from Villager, or Ken from Roy, despite those characters having more unique attacks and animations than Chrom has. That's why I think Chrom is a genius newcomer, and Lucina likewise for the same reasons.
 

Opossum

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They just took the hilt sweetspot off his attacks and also changed his Up B. He has more going for him than someone like Daisy but he was still effectively a very simple and cost efficient character to make.
They also had to re-rig and reanimate all of his attacks. Roy holds the Binding Blade in a reverse grip while Chrom holds the Falchion in a standard grip.

As a fun fact, this actually makes Chrom's forward tilt functionally different from Roy's albeit slightly. In order to keep the same animation in a standard grip, Chrom's forward tilt nudges him forward slightly and hits a little bit lower to the ground than Roy's, making it a better edgeguard tool because it can hit beneath the ledge.

It also helps that Chrom is one of the only three Echo Fighters with a unique Final Smash (two if you don't count Dark Pit, who only has a unique one because Zelda and Sheik changed theirs).
 
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I still don't think that really shows us that Nintendo really cares that much about Geno. A bad habit I've noticed with the Geno fandom is conflating the love for Super Mario RPG as something that directly correlates with the same overwhelming support for Geno himself. Yes, Geno is an essential element of the game as a major party member and plays the role as a deuteragonist in the game... but there's also a lot of love for Super Mario RPG the game itself that doesn't translate to overwhelming support for Geno, let alone Geno in Smash. Nintendo knows people care about Super Mario RPG enough to re-release it a couple of times, but that's almost certainly not a huge investment on their part and they've figured out where they stand with Square Enix for some time. Sure, Super Mario RPG got re-released on the SNES Classic... but so did every other major Square RPG from the SNES era besides Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy II (IV). And an individual can care about Geno and Mallow enough to reference them on Twitter without too much issue (also that's just such a tenuous link anyway, NOA mentions everything under the sun on Twitter).

Them recognizing the value of Super Mario RPG being ported doesn't really equate to actively investing an entire fighter in Smash or any extended love of the character, and Superstar Saga's original cameo was likely because of how many Super Mario RPG staff members worked on it and they probably asked Nintendo if they could get the rights to that cameo and they allowed it to happen.
SMRPG was also ported to Wii U, and okay about their twitter, I just assumed higherups would have to approve/monitor posts on it.

Nintendo still had to approve his appearances in Smash. I guess they don't care about a ton of their characters/related ones they happen to not own across all of their franchises. Or, not care about some of their franchises in general.

I'm not saying he's definitely in, but there's nothing to suggest they 100% don't care, either. Rather, the opposite; they at least seem to care a little. I realize he's not the most profitable option, but he could still make bucks, so I don't think he's doomed nor that they don't care enough to have him in mind at least.
 
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Regardless, I really do wish they would've stopped after Lucina. Marth has one of the most vanilla, non-specific movesets out of every character on the roster, and it was cloned three times because of it. There are dozens upon dozens of characters both in and out of the FE franchise who could be given Marth's moveset and work just fine.

I doubt Sakurai will make any more clones from Marth's moveset, which is good. Personally, I'd love to see him make more Echoes and semis out of characters who don't have any clones on the roster.
 

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There are dozens upon dozens of characters both in and out of the FE franchise who could be given Marth's moveset and work just fine.
I mean, no, not really. There's a lot of things baked into Marth's moveset that is specifically tied to him and wouldn't work for other swordfighters, especially ones outside of Fire Emblem all together.

There's a good reason Icons was rightfully ripped a new one for copypasting him for one of their OCs.
 
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