Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RouffWestie]

How to tell someone knows absolutely nothing about Fire Emblem protags

No thanks to what Smash is telling us about 4 of them lol.

 

[osby]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Marth's moveset might have a couple of things tied to him, but it's nothing that would look weird on anyone else with a sword and a similar build. Sakurai has already given Marth's moveset to three other completely separate characters, so that's not exactly supportive of the idea that him swinging and thrusting a sword in different directions is a skill that only he can do.

At the very least, there are several FE characters who could be given Marth's moveset without any issues.

Do you even play those characters? Lucina, Chrom, and Roy all play differently from each other and even if you ignore that, you need a lot of intentional ignorance to miss completely different moves like Blazer or Flare Blade.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No thanks to what Smash is telling us about 4 of them lol.

I highly doubt anyone will disagree there, but when you have people assume they're experts on the franchise trying to go "well Actually" despite clearly not having played any FE games

 

[Digital Hazard]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Marth's moveset might have a couple of things tied to him, but it's nothing that would look weird on anyone else with a sword and a similar build. Sakurai has already given Marth's moveset to three other completely separate characters, so that's not exactly supportive of the idea that him swinging and thrusting a sword in different directions is a skill that only he can do.

At the very least, there are several FE characters who could be given Marth's moveset without any issues.

tbh I have to kinda agree here, but more on the base of what defined Marth long ago in Melee.

When Marth was introduced it was more special since he was meant to be a pure swordsman as opposed to Link using zoning moves, and even Roy's inclusion didn't make him any less special since Roy's differences made him feel more aggressive while Marth more refined.

Now, we have plenty of swordsmen with various gimmicks and playstyles that make Marth look kinda... Outdated in a way, even amongst other pure swordsmen. Even 2 out of his 3 clones feel more special and with more flavor than him, and the 3 have enough differences so you choose them over him.

iirc, the only thing that is really pulled from Fire Emblem with him is that the counter was meant to make him more strategic in when to use it, but now plenty of fighters have counters, including those from his own series and many from outside it.

 

[osby]

Now, we have plenty of swordsmen with various gimmicks and playstyles that make Marth look kinda... Outdated in a way, even amongst other pure swordsmen. Even his 3 clones feel more special and with more flavor than him, and have enough differences so you choose them over him.

Isn't Lucina's whole point being a vanilla Marth? People prefer her because she's better from a competitive standpoint but her moveset is objectively simpler than Marth's due to the lack of tipper.

 

[Cosmic77]

Do you even play those characters? Lucina, Chrom, and Roy all play differently from each other and even if you ignore that, you need a lot of intentional ignorance to miss completely different moves like Blazer or Flare Blade.

M'kay, and did you even my post? Cause it seems like you noticed someone said something negative about Marth and you responded with something that wasn't even relevant to the point being brought up.

Me: "Marth has a basic, vanilla moveset for a swordfighter, which is why Sakurai was able to clone it so many times."
You: "Have you even played them before!? They all play completely different from each other!!"

 

[Opossum]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Marth's moveset might have a couple of things tied to him, but it's nothing that would look weird on anyone else with a sword and a similar build. Sakurai has already given Marth's moveset to three other completely separate characters, so that's not exactly supportive of the idea that him swinging and thrusting a sword in different directions is a skill that only he can do.

At the very least, there are several FE characters who could be given Marth's moveset without any issues.

He gave it to two other characters, and one of those got reworked. Marth and Roy (and by extension, Chrom) do not have the same moveset anymore. This isn't subjective, this is a fact.

The two characters who received Marth's moveset were Lucina and Melee!Roy. Now let's look at why. Lucina is blindingly obvious. She literally takes Marth's name as a rallying cry for hope and is his direct descendant. To say nothing of the fact that Lucina doesn't really even fight like herself in Smash. She's probably among the characters botched the most during the transition to playability.

And with Roy, The Binding Blade hadn't come out yet, so Sakurai using Marth as a base in Melee made total sense. And there's also the fact that The Binding Blade is essentially almost a remake of Shadow Dragon as far as plot and characters are concerned: Roy was literally just a Marth expy with very few things setting him apart. Then Smash 4 made Roy much more unique to the point of being a Falco-level semi-clone, being more removed from Marth than Isabelle was from Villager, to put things into perspective.

So of the two characters to take Marth's moveset, one of which doesn't exist anymore, and the other had reason enough to do so by literally assuming his identity.

It's just a really ignorant statement, calling Marth's moveset generic and all-purpose for any swordsman. His forward tilt and up smash come directly from Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light. His forward smash, his animation for Counter, and Shield Breaker all come from Mystery of the Emblem (and Shadow Dragon retroactively made Shield Breaker and his up smash's inspiration even more apparent). You could even argue the first hit of jab could be based on Mystery's non-critical follow up attack animation. Obviously things like Throws and Aerials needed to be made up due to those not being things in Fire Emblem.

The Counter itself was literally and explicitly inspired by enemy phase combat. Marth's playstyle, which is centered around proper spacing, is fittingly emblematic of Fire Emblem's gameplay, where unit positioning can mean the difference between life and death.

Hell, even something people tend to overlook, Marth having the highest walking speed, is a direct callback to Mystery of the Emblem, where he had an absurdly high relative walk speed in his attack animation.

The idea that Marth was made with a genuinely generic moveset is bafflingly uninformed. He's arguably more faithfully and flavorfully represented than quite a number of other characters, like Lucario who fights nothing like how Lucario are shown to fight in the games OR anime.

 

[Guynamednelson]

M'kay, and did you even my post? Cause it seems like you noticed someone said something negative about Marth and you responded with something that wasn't even relevant to the point being brought up.

Me: "Marth has a basic, vanilla moveset for a swordfighter, which is why Sakurai was able to clone it so many times."
You: "Have you even played them before!? They all play completely different from each other!!"

You also said they should've stopped at Lucina when she isn't even the only FE rep who's anti-zoning.

 

[Cosmic77]

He gave it to two other characters, and one of those got reworked. Marth and Roy (and by extension, Chrom) do not have the same moveset anymore. This isn't subjective, this is a fact.

The two characters who received Marth's moveset were Lucina and Melee!Roy. Now let's look at why. Lucina is blindingly obvious. She literally takes Marth's name as a rallying cry for hope and is his direct descendant. To say nothing of the fact that Lucina doesn't really even fight like herself in Smash. She's probably among the characters botched the most during the transition to playability.

And with Roy, The Binding Blade hadn't come out yet, so Sakurai using Marth as a base in Melee made total sense. And there's also the fact that The Binding Blade is essentially almost a remake of Shadow Dragon as far as plot and characters are concerned: Roy was literally just a Marth expy with very few things setting him apart. Then Smash 4 made Roy much more unique to the point of being a Falco-level semi-clone, being more removed from Marth than Isabelle was from Villager, to put things into perspective.

So of the two characters to take Marth's moveset, one of which doesn't exist anymore, and the other had reason enough to do so by literally assuming his identity.

It's just a really ignorant statement, calling Marth's moveset generic and all-purpose for any swordsman. His forward tilt and up smash come directly from Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light. His forward smash, his animation for Counter, and Shield Breaker all come from Mystery of the Emblem (and Shadow Dragon retroactively made Shield Breaker and his up smash's inspiration even more apparent). You could even argue the first hit of jab could be based on Mystery's non-critical follow up attack animation. Obviously things like Throws and Aerials needed to be made up due to those not being things in Fire Emblem.

The Counter itself was literally and explicitly inspired by enemy phase combat. Marth's playstyle, which is centered around proper spacing, is fittingly emblematic of Fire Emblem's gameplay, where unit positioning can mean the difference between life and death.

Hell, even something people tend to overlook, Marth having the highest walking speed, is a direct callback to Mystery of the Emblem, where he had an absurdly high relative walk speed in his attack animation.
View attachment 274014
The idea that Marth was made with a genuinely generic moveset is bafflingly uninformed. He's arguably more faithfully and flavorfully represented than quite a number of other characters, like Lucario who fights nothing like how Lucario are shown to fight in the games OR anime.

It doesn't matter how many of Marth's animations were inspired from or reference the games. That doesn't suddenly make those attacks something that Marth and only Marth can perform. A lot of references in Peach's moveset don't make sense with Daisy, but that didn't stop her from using them anyways.

Marth is a pure swordsman who relies almost entirely on swinging his sword. There's very little (if anything) in his moveset that absolutely could not be given to another sword character of a similar build.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...like Lucario who fights nothing like how Lucario are shown to fight in the games OR anime.

I was going to disagree with you, but now that I think about it, Lucario (and pretty much every Pokémon) take a more brute force approach to combat. It's kind of amazing how Sakurai was able to come up with something that is both incredibly random and makes perfect sense at the same time.

I guess the difference between Lucario from Super Smash Bros. and Lucario from something like Pokkén Tournament is that the former is Lucario as an individual and the latter is Lucario as little more than a representative of his species.

You also said they should've stopped at Lucina when she isn't even the only FE rep who's anti-zoning.

What about Lucina is anti-zoning?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He gave it to two other characters, and one of those got reworked. Marth and Roy (and by extension, Chrom) do not have the same moveset anymore. This isn't subjective, this is a fact.

The two characters who received Marth's moveset were Lucina and Melee!Roy. Now let's look at why. Lucina is blindingly obvious. She literally takes Marth's name as a rallying cry for hope and is his direct descendant. To say nothing of the fact that Lucina doesn't really even fight like herself in Smash. She's probably among the characters botched the most during the transition to playability.

And with Roy, The Binding Blade hadn't come out yet, so Sakurai using Marth as a base in Melee made total sense. And there's also the fact that The Binding Blade is essentially almost a remake of Shadow Dragon as far as plot and characters are concerned: Roy was literally just a Marth expy with very few things setting him apart. Then Smash 4 made Roy much more unique to the point of being a Falco-level semi-clone, being more removed from Marth than Isabelle was from Villager, to put things into perspective.

So of the two characters to take Marth's moveset, one of which doesn't exist anymore, and the other had reason enough to do so by literally assuming his identity.

It's just a really ignorant statement, calling Marth's moveset generic and all-purpose for any swordsman. His forward tilt and up smash come directly from Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light. His forward smash, his animation for Counter, and Shield Breaker all come from Mystery of the Emblem (and Shadow Dragon retroactively made Shield Breaker and his up smash's inspiration even more apparent). You could even argue the first hit of jab could be based on Mystery's non-critical follow up attack animation. Obviously things like Throws and Aerials needed to be made up due to those not being things in Fire Emblem.

The Counter itself was literally and explicitly inspired by enemy phase combat. Marth's playstyle, which is centered around proper spacing, is fittingly emblematic of Fire Emblem's gameplay, where unit positioning can mean the difference between life and death.

Hell, even something people tend to overlook, Marth having the highest walking speed, is a direct callback to Mystery of the Emblem, where he had an absurdly high relative walk speed in his attack animation.
View attachment 274014
The idea that Marth was made with a genuinely generic moveset is bafflingly uninformed. He's arguably more faithfully and flavorfully represented than quite a number of other characters, like Lucario who fights nothing like how Lucario are shown to fight in the games OR anime.

Honestly, Marth's translation to Smash is so ****ing good, there's only 2 FE things he didn't originally have used in the animations, but combining the Falchion with rapiers, Marth's other broken star rank weapon? That **** is so ****ing big brained that there's nothing you can do to improve Marth's moveset

 

[Opossum]

It doesn't matter how many of Marth's animations were inspired from or reference the games. That doesn't suddenly make those attacks something that Marth and only Marth can perform. A lot of references in Peach's moveset don't make sense with Daisy, but that didn't stop her from using them anyways.

Marth is a pure swordsman who relies almost entirely on swinging his sword. There's very little (if anything) in his moveset that absolutely could not be given to another sword character of a similar build.

They could give others that moveset, sure, but it would absolutely be ill-fitting and arguably a bastardization. Once again, look at Icons.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I was going to disagree with you, but now that I think about it, Lucario (and pretty much every Pokémon) take a more brute force approach to combat. It's kind of amazing how Sakurai was able to come up with something that is both incredibly random and makes perfect sense at the same time.

I guess the difference between Lucario from Super Smash Bros. and Lucario from something like Pokkén Tournament is that the former is Lucario as an individual and the latter is Lucario as little more than a representative of his species.


What about Lucina is anti-zoning?

I think Nelson meant that she wasn't a zoner, rather than being an anti-zoner

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think Nelson meant that she wasn't a zoner, rather than being an anti-zoner

But she is tho.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

For FP7, can we cut Shulk?

Take it back

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Take it back

No. I'm willing to compromise though, FP8 will be Shulk but with a model that doesn't look like a downgrade from Smash 4 and with a gimmick that actually makes ****ing sense for him, a Talent Gauge. Smack people around enough and you get the right to do all the crazy bull**** the Monado Arts are actually capable, including Monado Buster, which is surprisingly absent from Smash

 

[Schnee117]

He gave it to two other characters, and one of those got reworked. Marth and Roy (and by extension, Chrom) do not have the same moveset anymore. This isn't subjective, this is a fact.

The two characters who received Marth's moveset were Lucina and Melee!Roy. Now let's look at why. Lucina is blindingly obvious. She literally takes Marth's name as a rallying cry for hope and is his direct descendant. To say nothing of the fact that Lucina doesn't really even fight like herself in Smash. She's probably among the characters botched the most during the transition to playability.

And with Roy, The Binding Blade hadn't come out yet, so Sakurai using Marth as a base in Melee made total sense. And there's also the fact that The Binding Blade is essentially almost a remake of Shadow Dragon as far as plot and characters are concerned: Roy was literally just a Marth expy with very few things setting him apart. Then Smash 4 made Roy much more unique to the point of being a Falco-level semi-clone, being more removed from Marth than Isabelle was from Villager, to put things into perspective.

So of the two characters to take Marth's moveset, one of which doesn't exist anymore, and the other had reason enough to do so by literally assuming his identity.

It's just a really ignorant statement, calling Marth's moveset generic and all-purpose for any swordsman. His forward tilt and up smash come directly from Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light. His forward smash, his animation for Counter, and Shield Breaker all come from Mystery of the Emblem (and Shadow Dragon retroactively made Shield Breaker and his up smash's inspiration even more apparent). You could even argue the first hit of jab could be based on Mystery's non-critical follow up attack animation. Obviously things like Throws and Aerials needed to be made up due to those not being things in Fire Emblem.

The Counter itself was literally and explicitly inspired by enemy phase combat. Marth's playstyle, which is centered around proper spacing, is fittingly emblematic of Fire Emblem's gameplay, where unit positioning can mean the difference between life and death.

Hell, even something people tend to overlook, Marth having the highest walking speed, is a direct callback to Mystery of the Emblem, where he had an absurdly high relative walk speed in his attack animation.
View attachment 274014
The idea that Marth was made with a genuinely generic moveset is bafflingly uninformed. He's arguably more faithfully and flavorfully represented than quite a number of other characters, like Lucario who fights nothing like how Lucario are shown to fight in the games OR anime.

The other thing shown is that Marth's using a Rapier, something that very few characters in the series actually canonically use.

 

[Idon]

It doesn't matter how many of Marth's animations were inspired from or reference the games. That doesn't suddenly make those attacks something that Marth and only Marth can perform. A lot of references in Peach's moveset don't make sense with Daisy, but that didn't stop her from using them anyways.

Marth is a pure swordsman who relies almost entirely on swinging his sword. There's very little (if anything) in his moveset that absolutely could not be given to another sword character of a similar build.

Well, when you put it that way can't all humanoid characters simply perform what other humanoids do? Outside of gameplay gimmicks and different species, you really could move a lot of moves over other characters. Smash sometimes does this, but mostly only for a small part of movesets and not as the whole (unless they're echoes, which are universally agreed to be compromises)

It's a fighting game and they're trying to convey uniqueness in character. Marth is the most graceful Lord in the series and trying to shove in the other Lords who don't share his skills or personality into his moves simply won't feel right.

Eirika might work honestly, but like, she's got a horse.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

SMRPG was also ported to Wii U, and okay about their twitter, I just assumed higherups would have to approve/monitor posts on it.

Nintendo still had to approve his appearances in Smash. I guess they don't care about a ton of their characters/related ones they happen to not own across all of their franchises. Or, not care about some of their franchises in general.

I'm not saying he's definitely in, but there's nothing to suggest they 100% don't care, either. Rather, the opposite; they at least seem to care a little. I realize he's not the most profitable option, but he could still make bucks, so I don't think he's doomed nor that they don't care enough to have him in mind at least.

I mean, again, they recognize the value of porting Super Mario RPG since it doesn't really require any work and as a Mario title, they may have worked something out with Square Enix licensing wise to be able to re-release it since it is pretty much the only Square related title to end up on the Wii U VC. It was a big deal in Virtual Console communities for a long time when Geno's popularity was just in its infancy because it wasn't available many places and was a very sought after game during the mid to late 2000s. Again, that at best echoes the sentiment that they recognize re-releasing Super Mario RPG when they can and its likely to be one of the least investment necessary things they could do regarding the game.

Also, the higher ups having to sign off on everything or Nintendo approving appearances in Smash are kind of non starters as points because they apply to literally every piece of content in Smash or that appears on NOA's Twitter feed equally. Like, there's no real value you can assign or say that it's special because it got approved. For Smash, so did Gil from Tower of Drauga in Smash 4 as far as Mii Costumes are concerned, so did Wonder Red in Smash Ultimate's Spirits among a literal thousand others. It's just not much to actually build a point from when there's nothing really special about it outside of the fact it got approved in the first place, which at most means Nintendo knows they can legally include that content (also a Tweet doesn't actually require any licensing, so it could just literally be one employee deciding to post something about Super Mario RPG and NOA approving it because... Well why the hell not?).

Similarly, every fighter is going to make money they release. Even Bubsy would technically pull in some money. Now that's a false equivalency I realize, but my point is that Geno isn't uniquely well suited to make money as a fan demand in the last post and also doesn't advance really anyone else's goals as a company. I'm not saying there's evidence to suggest they "don't care", just that the evidence that people put forward to show that "they care" is seriously lacking and inherently non-committal as far as a company taking actions that are not really that major. I don't think Geno has a zero percent chance by any means, but I've also expressed how much I wouldn't be surprised to see him not show up as a fighter. I just see the lists that some other Geno fans put out there, and it's literally just a short list of any time the character's name has appeared in rather insignificant ways. It feels like its really reaching to assign much value to these different scenarios or largely unimportant references (seriously, we've got a couple of anniversary tweets and a quiz answer as supposed "evidence" regarding how much Nintendo cares or that points towards him).

I don't say this to say Geno is impossible. He's possible if Nintendo really buckles down and decides they distinctly want to really surprise a portion of fans in a very specific way. And that in of itself is not inherently worthless by any stretch of the imagination in a game like Smash, but we are increasingly talking about the end game of Ultimate and what it brings to the table too. I just say it to point out just how much some fans feel the need to desperately reach for "proof" or "evidence" that doesn't really show much at all.

 

[Cosmic77]

They could give others that moveset, sure, but it would absolutely be ill-fitting and arguably a bastardization. Once again, look at Icons.

Well, that goes along with pretty much every clone character.

Would I have preferred Daisy and Dark Samus get something better than what's essentially a glorified alt with different animations? Absolutely, but whether or not those characters deserved that isn't what I'm arguing. If Sakurai really wanted to add more FE characters, he could add quite a few via Marth's moveset. I don't believe he will, but he could do it if he wanted to.

 

[SmashChu]

I believe that Byleth was always planned but I also believe that the pass had a designated 1st party slot because the when the whole pass is bought it's at a one pack discount. They needed one without royalties to make economic sense.

This is part of the reason why, I see FP2 having more first parties and why we are getting 6 as a oppose to the 5 we got with FP1. I have a sneaking suspicion with the deadline being the end of 2021, they are working with a smaller and maybe a reduce budget, but they don't have to worry about royalties as much for first party characters and the 6th character came from saving a bit of money this time due to having not to pay royalties for third parties.

These are both interesting theories and I think Guybrush20X6 is on to something with a Nintendo character being in to justify the cost. On the 6 vs 5 thing, my assumption was it was six since we had 6 DLC characters already with PP. My assumption could just be wrong and the reason it, as you say, due to being more Nintendo focused which they can do with the lower cost as well as to keep people interested (people may accept less hype characters if they are just getting more).

One thing to add as well is time and cost. Generally speaking, longer time means more cost. If you have to cover someone's salary over two years, that cost a lot more than one year. But if you are working with half the size, then it essentially washes out (not considering fixed cost that are unavoidable despite the team size). At the same time, it's better to get money upfront than later. Look up the Time Value of Money. The first pass is economically better since the $25 was released over a entire year. Contrast this to Vol 2 and it's $15 every year. Also, Accounting Standards require that you don't recognize revenue until its earned, so Nintendo can't regonize any of the revenue for Pass 2 until the DLC is released (so not until the ARMS fighter is out in June). So while, yes, Nintendo gets the cash upfront if you but the full pass, only a portion will show up in this year's financials. Fun Fact, Fighter Pass Vol 1 was done within a single fiscal year.

Now, technically the cost of third parties is less of an issue because, in theory, their fee should come from revenue. So buying Joker at $5.99 means Atlus(Sega) gets a portion of that revenue. With Nintendo characters, it's not that it cost less, it's that you keep more of it, but consider what I said before. Vol2 is already less profitable since the revenue is coming slower than before. So, it may be that they needed to have a smaller team, so the development time was extended, so they choose more Nintendo characters to make up the difference. Of course, this remains to be seen since we don't know the other 5 characters and maybe none of them are Nintendo characters. Still, it think it's a possibility that something like this is what's going on. Might be interesting to revisit once it's all said and done.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do you think we'll be told the series of another DLC fighter before they're revealed again like ARMS, or just a one-off due to the overall uncertainty of that mini Direct?

I sure as hell hope not. I mean, there's probably other content coming with the FP6 patch, so I assume there will have to be a Direct to explain it all. And I just want it to end with another trailer.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

No. I'm willing to compromise though, FP8 will be Shulk but with a model that doesn't look like a downgrade from Smash 4 and with a gimmick that actually makes ****ing sense for him, a Talent Gauge. Smack people around enough and you get the right to do all the crazy bull**** the Monado Arts are actually capable, including Monado Buster, which is surprisingly absent from Smash

I’m all for a model upgrade but I like his play style as it is.

Edit: it’s crazy how much worse he looks from Smash 4. Just a damn shame.

 

[Opossum]

Well, that goes along with pretty much every clone character.

Would I have preferred Daisy and Dark Samus get something better than what's essentially a glorified alt with different animations? Absolutely, but whether or not those characters deserved that isn't what I'm arguing. If Sakurai really wanted to add more FE characters, he could add quite a few via Marth's moveset. I don't believe he will, but he could do it if he wanted to.

If there are "quite a few," then name them.

 

[Idon]

The one time replacing a character's moveset with another actually makes them look more accurate to the source material.

But no seriously, Sakurai why did you make Shulk so damn clunky in Smash, I beg of you, calm down with your gimmicks.

 

[Digital Hazard]

No. I'm willing to compromise though, FP8 will be Shulk but with a model that doesn't look like a downgrade from Smash 4 and with a gimmick that actually makes ****ing sense for him, a Talent Gauge. Smack people around enough and you get the right to do all the crazy bull**** the Monado Arts are actually capable, including Monado Buster, which is surprisingly absent from Smash

: "Am I a joke to you?"

I agree on the model tho

 

[Schnee117]

Well, when you put it that way can't all humanoid characters simply perform what other humanoids do? Outide of gameplay gimmicks and different species, you really could move a lot of moves over other characters.

Icnineroar is just a model swap of Zangief after all

 

[Digital Hazard]

Icnineroar is just a model swap of Zangief after all

I mean...

We have this

 

[Schnee117]

I mean...
View attachment 274018

We have this

I can't believe Snake's just a telephone model swap

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Well, that goes along with pretty much every clone character.

Would I have preferred Daisy and Dark Samus get something better than what's essentially a glorified alt with different animations? Absolutely, but whether or not those characters deserved that isn't what I'm arguing. If Sakurai really wanted to add more FE characters, he could add quite a few via Marth's moveset. I don't believe he will, but he could do it if he wanted to.

I mean why stop at Fire Emblem characters? We can make Ghirahim a Marth clone, Sephiroth a Marth clone, Travis Touchdown a Marth clone, and Yuri Lowell a Marth clone.

Do any of those make any actual amount of sense? No, but neither does just blindly assigning Fire Emblem characters to Marth and neither does just making **** up that "Sakurai can do whatever he wants to add fighters." Like, sure he could have made Rosalina a Peach clone if he wanted to as well... But literally what's the point of those kinds of conversations?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

: "Am I a joke to you?"

I agree on the model tho

Nah the idea for a Talent Gauge gimmick wouldn't be like Limit at all, Limit boosts your stats and beefs up your next special move while giving you Finishing Touch, the idea of the Talent Gauge is that when pressing B, a small menu pops up above Shulk letting him scroll between any Monado Arts he wants, Speed can stay the same because it's depicted that way in cutscenes, but Buster isn't a damage boost, it's a big ass blade of light getting smashed on your head. Then there's Monado Cyclone, an AoE attack, Eater, which causes the Bleed status for a powerful DoT, Shield would sooner be a free hit of super armour as boosting defences is a different Monado Art, etc

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean...

We have this

No no. I've seen the mod...


It will haunt my nightmares for years to come.

EDIT: "Zangief's model over Incineroar isn't real. It can't hurt you."

Spoiler: Zangief's model over Inceneroar:

 

[Cosmic77]

If there are "quite a few," then name them.

Actually, quite a few of the main characters could work. Seliph, Leif, Alm, and as much as you're probably going to disagree, Celica.

If you can set aside, "They'd never be a clone! Look at what else they can do and how they're represented in their games!" all of these guys have a similar enough build to work as a Marth clone if Sakurai really wanted them in Smash but didn't have the time to make them unique. The only thing that would look weird is the scaling down of their sword to match Marth's, but it's not like Lucina/Chrom didn't look weird anyway.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

There's a lot of characters who could have had one gimmick or another.

Heck, even going back to the start, Mario could have made use of power ups that would have given him more options but would be lost on hit, Samus could have switched between her upright and morph ball forms and Yoshi could have been able to aim and throw his eggs straight like in Yoshi's Island 1.

Part of why I think that Smash needs a full reboot at some point.

 

[Opossum]

Actually, quite a few of the main characters could work. Seliph, Leif, Alm, and as much as you're probably going to disagree, Celica.

If you can set aside, "They'd never be a clone! Look at what else they can do and how they're represented in their games!" all of these guys have a similar enough build to work as a Marth clone if Sakurai really wanted them in Smash but didn't have the time to make them unique. The only thing that would look weird is the scaling down of their sword to match Marth's, but it's not like Lucina/Chrom didn't look weird anyway.

Leif, whose main form of attack is shooting giant magic triangles out of his sword and after promotion can use any weapon type except for dark magic.

Alm, who has an incredibly aggressive swordplay style and literally can't be a Marth clone due to being left handed.

Celica, who is not even just more graceful than even Marth is, but who is a magic based lord before a sword based one.

If you're willing to stretch these characters THAT FAR, you're not arguing in good faith and don't really know what you're talking about. Literally the only character you mentioned that would work would be Seliph, and even he promotes to a mounted unit, which Marth doesn't do.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

> marth clone discussions

hasnt it been established that every character is a clone of marth?

see look they're all marth

now lets stop fighting and talk about why spring man will springaling into smash and go boiyoiyoing

 

[RetrogamerMax]

There's a lot of characters who could have had one gimmick or another.

Heck, even going back to the start, Mario could have made use of power ups that would have given him more options but would be lost on hit, Samus could have switched between her upright and morph ball forms and Yoshi could have been able to aim and throw his eggs straight like in Yoshi's Island 1.

Part of why I think that Smash needs a full reboot at some point.

Not in the gameplay department though. Smash's 2D side scrolling fighting gameplay should never change no matter what. I can't stand the thought of Smash becoming a 3D fighter.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

> marth clone discussions

hasnt it been established that every character is a clone of marth?

see look they're all marth

now lets stop fighting and talk about why spring man will springaling into smash and go boiyoiyoing

Ahem, don't you mean "Stretchy Marth"?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Leif, whose main form of attack is shooting giant magic triangles out of his sword and after promotion can use any weapon type except for dark magic.

Alm, who has an incredibly aggressive swordplay style and literally can't be a Marth clone due to being left handed.

Celica, who is not even just more graceful than even Marth is, but who is a magic based lord before a sword based one.

If you're willing to stretch these characters THAT FAR, you're not arguing in good faith and don't really know what you're talking about. Literally the only character you mentioned that would work would be Seliph, and even he promotes to a mounted unit, which Marth doesn't do.

I mean... in all fairness, if Smash went for accuracy 100% of the time, then we wouldn't have Byleth using all the weapons they do, Shulk's Monado Arts would be completely different, Ganondorf wouldn't borrow stuff from a character who belongs in a different franchise entirely and Ness/Lucas would use the PSI they actually learn in-game. And a lot more.

...Most importantly, we would never have seen people argue that several ARMS characters could be alts of each other without any problem. That talk wouldn't have even existed, really.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Not in the gameplay department though. Smash's 2D side scrolling fighting gameplay should never change no matter what. I can't stand the thought of Smash becoming a 3D fighter.

I agree. If it's a fighter, it should stay true to the base of percentage to launch, off screen to KO model.

That said, if it were to change genres, I'd want it to go all out. Strategy game, RPG, full platformer, heck even a rhythm game, I'd be down for it