Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, the appealing design thing really depends on the person, because I know a lot of people (myself included) consider a wooden puppet with a blue cape and hat to be somewhat generic and out of place for a Mario character. No offense to his supporters, but from my point of view, he genuinely does feel like a Deviantart OC that made it into a Mario game.

Nah he's not over-designed enough for that to be the case.

Dunno how you find him generic though, it's not exactly a common design.

You just answered your own question.

You mean to say that some people don't want him because they don't? You wouldn't be wrong but that's not exactly enlightening. lol

I think that Chill Penguin from Mega Man X would be a rather neat addition to the roster. Do I vocalize that desire? No, because he's an irrelevant one off. I would be laughed off the site if I started campaigning for him. What's different between him and Geno?

Isn't he like the Cut Man of Mavericks though? If we were to shed some light on them in this game he should at least make an appearance (though Magma Dragoon would probably take the playable slot due to popularity assuming we were getting a playable Maverick).

It's also worth noting that Geno comes from the Super Mario series, which has all of their major characters (+ a few "because why not" characters), and Chill Penguin comes from the Mega Man series which is still missing a whole bunch of them, and only has one character to boot. If the series had, what is it, 8 characters, then Chill Penguin as a concept would definitely be more well received.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think that Chill Penguin from Mega Man X would be a rather neat addition to the roster. Do I vocalize that desire? No, because he's an irrelevant one off. I would be laughed off the site if I started campaigning for him. What's different between him and Geno?

Oh, come now. You can't just say that and not immediantly make a Chill Penguin support thread. If you want the support to come, you need to make a starting point. THAT'S how Geno became popular.

 

[osby]

You mean to say that some people don't want him because they don't? You wouldn't be wrong but that's not exactly enlightening. lol

Let me rephrase it this way: I don't want Geno in Smash because of how much his fans shove him down my throat.

I think their attitude is incredibly irritating and I find it extremely hard to sympathize with them. And Geno himself being as bland as cardboard with exposition written on it doesn't help.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And now, a question for all of you. What is a game(s) that you are not expecting to get a character from, but would be happy to see something like a boss fight, spirit event, assist trophy, Mii costume, or something else to represent it.

Anyone from these lists that is unlikely to ever get a playable character.

So...
Bubble Bobble
Double Dragon
Gradius
Startropics
Tecmo Bowl
Pro Wrestling
Rygar
Battletoads
Bionic Commando
Crystalis
Blaster Master
Maniac Mansion
Wizards & Warriors

 

[DanganZilla5]

I have wanted a Tetris stagge since Brawl gave us those great remixes. I've tended to make this in Stage Builder, but what I have in mind can't be easily done. Granted, it would be a frustrating stage to play, but it would be really cool to see.

The stage is set in a pit (so the only blast zone KOs are through the top). As the match proceeds, the AI will drop blocks in and basically play a game of Tetris (the game will always generate the needed blocks to keep the Tetris game from losing). So basically, you're fighting among a bunch of very slowly falling blocks. And if you get trapped under one...

EDIT: Image fail. It's the .gif of Samus being crushed from the SSB Wiki

So your goal as a player is to either throw the enemies up to the blast zone, or trap them under blocks.

As the game completes lines, that line disappears and deals damage and vertical knockback to anyone standing on it. The more lines they take out, the more damage and knockback, so a Tetris ends up being a OHKO.


I think a lot of the avatar hate comes from two places: 1) "They're not my most wanted" 2) "They have no personality aside from what I give them in my RP".

People love to play up personality like it's the most important thing. And yes, personality is important, but the characters who are avatars in RPGs are pretty blank slates that you can put your own personality with. Doubly so for WRPGs (which are not in Smash) since those characters are fully insert-character-here as opposed to the JRPG 'here's a character with a prebuilt backstory, now play as you want.' But Sakurai and his team can give an avatar a personality, and the fact that they're the playable character means they have a lot of moveset potential to work with.

I remember people digging up complaints (they claimed it was from Japanese fans) about Ridley that he was not a worthy addition since he didn't have a personality beyond killing. I also remember the RTC thread would constantly go on about how charcter XYZ (I think they were usually Kid Icarus characters) were so deserving since they were really funny. Thing is, some specific traits like humor don't really translate to a fighting game, whereas even a blank slate can be allowed to emote for a fight (heck, we have a robot emoting, and that was a major thing in Sm4sh that ROB stopped emoting due to a bug, despite the literal ROB being a toy). And yeah, the personality may not be exactly what you had planned, but in a fighting game, it's a little tough to expand a few facial expressions into a full personality and vice versa. If we take Link for example, he's actually got a whole personality in BotW: He's nervous about how the world sees him, and he dedicates himself to his training; he's silent because he feels unworthy, but he opens up with food; he's haunted by his previous failure... but that doesn't really read from his Smash incarnation. In Smash, he's another fighter with some facial expressions. Wario's another great one. Despite all of us knowing that his entire thing is greed, his 'personality' in Smash is LOL FARTS.

Not to mention that anyone, even someone who isn't in the Fire Emblem series is just "Another swordsman! Ugh!" I also love the people who complain about swordsmen, then go on to talk about someone like Dante and how he could use a sword ("but he has a gun too so he's different!")

Obviously I don't have a problem with avatar characters considering my most wanted, but to me this argument does come off as another way for people to dismiss other options.


Funny you should mention those two: those are the only two Western games to have gotten perfect 40/40 on Famitsu, which also shows they were pretty nicely received in Japan. They both also won GOTY from Spike (later the Game Awards) for their respective years. They're really influential...but they're not one of the golden children, so nobody really talks about them.

I know one of the main things that people discount them with is "no Nintendo history!" as if that matters anymore. I mean, Snake, Cloud, and Joker are all most associated with PlayStation with maybe a handful of forgotten titles between them on Nintendo consoles. And that's also disregarding the influence that Skyrim/GTA have had on actual Nintendo games - I know there are more than a few parallels in BotW that made it feel a bit like an Elder Scrolls game.

Incidentally, if anyone is interested in one of those two, come to the support thread in my sig!

That is a great idea for a Tetris stage. How did I not even think of Tetris? If there is a game that deserves a stage, it's Tetris (and minecraft).

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm being a bit nitpicky here, but can anybody tell me the appeal of playable geno?

He's a Luma in a wooden Iron Man suit.

 

[Cosmic77]

Not to call anyone names like “stupid”, but need I remind you that Sakurai has made movesets for:
- Two nomads who only jump and swing their hammers
- An LCD whatshisface
- A toy from the 80’s
- Village people
- A virtual fitness instructor
- A dog who picks up the shot ducks
- A potted plant

I’m sure he could find a way to make Geno work.

That wasn't my arguement. Geno could work, but he doesn't have many attacks in SMRPG. Plus, three or four of his special attacks feel similar to existing special attacks from other characters (Shuriken of Light, Heavenly Light, Clown Cannon).

If Geno were to get in Smash, I feel like Sakurai would really have to deviate away from SMRPG to make Geno feel unique, and that's something you could do with literally any character and their game of orgin to help them stand out.

Nah he's not over-designed enough for that to be the case.

Dunno how you find him generic though, it's not exactly a common design.

There's a difference between a generic design and an uncommon design. I could design some type of special cape and hat, throw it on a lamp with eyes, and technically be able to claim that the character design was uncommon. I just wouldn't be able to say the design was unique. That's sort of how I see Geno.

I'm not saying this is a problem exclusive to Geno. A lot of Nintendo's most iconic characters have an extremely generic design. I'm just saying I've never looked and Geno and said, "Woah, that's a really cool design! I never would've thought of something like that!"

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well he would bring a unique fighting style being a gun mage, he can shoot from his arm cannon as well as cast magic and he has an appealing design being a wooden puppet with a striking blue hat and cape.

That's all that really needs to be said about him.

To be fair, that's mostly subjective and conjectural.

"He has moveset potential!" So does literally every other character. Sakurai's done amazing things, so anyone could get a lovingly-crafted moveset (except for Zelda characters, evidently)
"He'd be unique!" Sakurai can even make Wolf and Fox feel wholly different. Sharing a similar build to anyone in the cast (or even two people holding swords) doesn't make them clones. Yeah, Geno could work off of Mii Gunner as a base and then get changed enough to be really unique with a few vestigial moves.
"He has an appealing design!" is subjective. He definitely stands out from the Mario cast, so it depends if you like the uniqueness or dislike the clashing. And everyone has different tastes as well. Heck, I think that viking themes are the best, but that doesn't mean that everyone else does.

I don't understand why some people really don't want him as a fighter.

I know I could talk at length about how my favorite could be unique (I've made full movesets) and would look great in Smash (again, I've written full concepts of stage ideas, costumes, Kirby hats, etc. in the thread) and has a lot of importance in general (see the discussion from before). I could easily wonder why there is anyone who doesn't see them that way.

And yet, I know you've straight up said a few days ago in this thread that my favorite is one of the characters you actively don't want to see in.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a problem. I'm not mad about it. You're allowed to like and dislike whatever you want. I'm just pointing out that it's perfectly understandable for some people to dislike something even if you think it's the coolest thing ever.

 

[RouffWestie]

Ask for opinion
Get opinion
"Omg that's subjective."

Holy ****.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sam & Max are originally comic book characters. Not eligible.

Oh yeah...Still though. All of my yes.

Let me rephrase it this way: I don't want Geno in Smash because of how much his fans shove him down my throat.

I think their attitude is incredibly irritating and I find it extremely hard to sympathize with them. And Geno himself being as bland as cardboard with exposition written on it doesn't help.

That's not really a good reason to not want a character in my opinion. I mean, I get it, fans can be toxic, but that applies to pretty much everything. I think the only fan communities I've heard is actively not toxic is either really small, or ToonTown (which is probably both), but I digress. It's best to separate a character from their fandom if you want to be more objective with your subjective evaluation of a character. Find him bland? I don't really get it but it's a pretty good reason not to want a character.

And keep in mind this is just my two cents. I'm not trying to be the thought police or anything. I just think don't like the idea of people ruining characters for others, and I hope this isn't the sole reason why tons of people hate certain characters.

 

[⛧Lord Metallium⛧]

you forgot Kos-Mos at least

 

[Garteam]

From the writers of the hit "Anime Swordsman" and the producers of the award-winning "Punchy Cereal Box Mascot", we here at Smash Buzzwords Enterprises are here to bring you the hit new argument that makes you want to get a lobotomy...

"Guy with a Gun for an Arm!"
Premiering soon at a forum near you.

 

[kirbsmash]

Holy ****.

My bad...?

 

[PeridotGX]

Oh, come now. You can't just say that and not immediantly make a Chill Penguin support thread. If you want the support to come, you need to make a starting point. THAT'S how Geno became popular.

If you insist...
https://smashboards.com/threads/the-first-maverick-chill-penguin-mega-man-x-for-smash.504491/

Thers also a moveset I made awhile back: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_KJXi1Q8N-rH08L-eGgn3oq0J_COBYW-SHyGGLIZJXQ/edit?usp=sharing

 

[slrigeigdew]

Oh yeah...Still though. All of my yes.


That's not really a good reason to not want a character in my opinion. I mean, I get it, fans can be toxic, but that applies to pretty much everything. I think the only fan communities I've heard is actively not toxic is either really small, or ToonTown (which is probably both), but I digress. It's best to separate a character from their fandom if you want to be more objective with your subjective evaluation of a character. Find him bland? I don't really get it but it's a pretty good reason not to want a character.

And keep in mind this is just my two cents. I'm not trying to be the thought police or anything. I just think don't like the idea of people ruining characters for others, and I hope this isn't the sole reason why tons of people hate certain characters.

It's not a good reason but it's still a reason nonetheless. I don't know how common it is but I've seen plenty of people who had their opinions on a character soured by annoying fans. Infact I know one guy in particular who dealt with such fans (in the funniest way possible)

 

[TheCJBrine]

That wasn't my arguement. Geno could work, but he doesn't have many attacks in SMRPG. Plus, three or four of his special attacks feel similar to existing special attacks from other characters (Shuriken of Light, Heavenly Light, Clown Cannon).

If Geno were to get in Smash, I feel like Sakurai would really have to deviate away from SMRPG to make Geno feel unique, and that's something you could do with literally any character and their game of orgin to help them stand out.



There's a difference between a generic design and an uncommon design. I could design some type of special cape and hat, throw it on a lamp with eyes, and technically be able to claim that the character design was uncommon. I just wouldn't be able to say the design was unique. That's sort of how I see Geno.

I'm not saying this is a problem exclusive to Geno. A lot of Nintendo's most iconic characters have an extremely generic design. I'm just saying I've never looked and Geno and said, "Woah, that's a really cool design! I never would've thought of something like that!"

The only move of Geno’s I can see being similar to already existing moves is Geno Beam, and even then that could work as a neutral special while the ones it’s similar to are all final smashes. Of course, his bullets/star bullets are definitely similar to some moves or items, but even they could work different. I think Legacy XP did a good job with him.

I’m assuming Geno Blast is the one you’re comparing to Heavenly Light; it does seem a bit similar, but Geno could be making the stars rain down in front of him instead of having them come directly from above straight down to the ground. Also, I don’t think Heavenly Light is in Ultimate anyway, but correct me if I’m wrong; the wiki just says it was one of Palutena’s custom moves in Smash 4.

I don’t think any of Geno’s special moves are like Clown Cannon? Geno Flash is completely different if that’s what you’re referring to, aside from a cannon being involved, and it would fit well as his Final Smash.

Geno Whirl definitely wouldn’t just be Shuriken of Light. It could be a bit larger, travel faster, and go through opponents, and pressing B at the right time would let it deal more damage and knock back (but also make it disappear).

As for his appearance, I think he’s cool and I don’t really understand how he’s generic; I haven’t seen any puppets just like him, save for maybe Puppetmon and some Kingdom Hearts enemy someone compared to him, but he still looks different and has his own unique flair; really this reason feels like calling most human characters generic, and maybe most Nintendo characters in general as well as some cartoon characters and others, but to each their own.

 

[GoodGrief741]

the only Grand Theft Auto game on Nintendo consoles is Grand Theft Auto Advance (Which I'm sure no one will have to look up to even believe me).

This is Chinatown Wars erasure and I won't stand for it, that game's a treasure.

Also GTA 1 and 2 were also on Nintendo consoles.

As many people have mentioned already, a lot of Geno's appeal comes down to a few factors: he's cool, he's been a long time request, and he's a major underdog.

Geno's backstory is pretty unusual and high concept for a Mario character: he's a star possessing a wooden doll to fight an army of sentient weapons. That already makes him stick out a fair bit. He's also characterized in a way that gives him a lot of attention. He's the party's Gandalf, giving exposition on the various locations and enemies that party faces along with general advice, while also being one of the most assertive and charismatic members of the group. He's also very powerful in gameplay, with most people agreeing that Geno is Mario RPG's best offensive character. As such, Geno left a pretty strong impression on many people, even though he was only in one game.

Likewise, Geno's requests go all the back to Melee, but he really started to pick up steam during the Brawl speculation period. Basically everyone and their dog was calling out for Geno around this time, which kind of makes sense. The kids who grew up playing Mario RPG in 1996 were now old enough to advocate for who they wanted to see in Brawl by 2008. Popular fan animations from the time like Rawest Forest and Smash Kingdom helped introduce Geno to a new generation as well. Likewise, Geno is one of the last major characters from that era who isn't already in (Unlike Dedede, Diddy Kong, Ike, Ridley, etc.) and still has significant fan support behind him (Unlike Krystal, Midna, Lyn, etc.). As such, there's also an appeal to have Geno get in to help "complete the collection" (which is fitting, given Geno is literally a toy).

FInally, Geno is basically the ultimate Smash underdog. Being completely honest, Geno has very little going for him in a vacuum outside of his popularity. His only role is as a supporting character in a 24 year old game that has notorious rights issues. However, he's got a few things that don't make him a never-ever: Cloud and Hero getting Square Enix involved, Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo all joining the roster for their popularity despite historically having major hurdles to be overcome, his Mii Costume in Smash for Wii U and Spirit in Ultimate's base game, and Sakurai admitting that he considered Geno for Brawl give him some hope. Geno basically does what any good underdog does, he has enough evidence to not be entirely hopeless while also having an uphill battle.

I have never seen the comparison with Gandalf and it fits Geno so well. People will be naturally drawn to the side character that's cooler than the MCs, clearly knows a lot more about the plot and has more flashy/powerful abilities.

What were , , and advertising?

Mother 3's international release, obviously.

I think that Chill Penguin from Mega Man X would be a rather neat addition to the roster. Do I vocalize that desire? No, because he's an irrelevant one off. I would be laughed off the site if I started campaigning for him. What's different between him and Geno?

It's not like Geno's fans don't get mocked a lot, it's just that there's so many of them that mockery or not, Geno's still a strong contender.

 

[Gribbo]

What's different between him and Geno?

Chill Penguin's a minor boss fought twice whereas Geno's a main party member. He's more or less the Rosalina of SMRPG, just without all the later appearances in other games.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

He's a Luma in a wooden Iron Man suit.

Which sounds cool as ****.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's not a good reason but it's still a reason nonetheless. I don't know how common it is but I've seen plenty of people who had their opinions on a character soured by annoying fans. Infact I know one guy in particular who dealt with such fans (in the funniest way possible)

Yeah, and I do get it. I just think it's kinda sad.
EDIT: The fact that people have to feel this way, not the people for feeling this way. I'm not trying to say anyone's pathetic. They're not.

Geno Whirl definitely wouldn’t just be Shuriken of Light. It could be a bit larger, travel faster, and go through opponents, and pressing B at the right time would let it deal more damage and knock back (but also make it disappear).

That seems a bit too precise. Maybe just allow the player to detonate Geno Whirl whenever, but give the explosion a sweetspot to encourage, but not so strictly enforce precision. Kinda like Din's Fire if it were more versatile.

This is Chinatown Wars erasure and I won't stand for it, that game's a treasure.

Also GTA 1 and 2 were also on Nintendo consoles.

You're telling me Wikipedia has deceived me?

*Shocked Pikachu face*

Chill Penguin's a minor boss fought twice whereas Geno's a main party member.

What? Robot Masters and Mavericks are the meat and potatoes of the Mega Man and Mega Man X series.

 

[Cosmic77]

The only move of Geno’s I can see being similar to already existing moves is Geno Beam, and even then that could work as a neutral special while the ones it’s similar to are all final smashes. Of course, his bullets/star bullets are definitely similar to some moves or items, but even they could work different. I think Legacy XP did a good job with him.

I’m assuming Geno Blast is the one you’re comparing to Heavenly Light; it does seem a bit similar, but Geno could be making the stars rain down in front of him instead of having them come down directly from above straight down to the ground. Also, I don’t think Heavenly Light is in Ultimate anyway, but correct me if I’m wrong; the wiki just says it was one of Palutena’s custom moves in Smash 4.

I don’t think any of Geno’s special moves are like Clown Cannon? Geno Flash is completely different if that’s what you’re referring to, aside from a cannon being involved, and it would fit well as his Final Smash.

Geno Whirl definitely wouldn’t just be Shuriken of Light. It could be a bit larger, travel faster, and go through opponents, and pressing B at the right time would let it deal more damage and knock back (but also make it disappear).

As for his appearance, I think he’s cool and I don’t really understand how he’s generic; I haven’t seen any puppets just like him, save for maybe Puppetmon and some Kingdom Hearts enemy someone compared to him, but he still looks different and has his own unique flair; really this reason feels like calling most human characters generic, and maybe most Nintendo characters in general as well as some cartoon characters and others, but to each their own.

I forgot Geno Flash was a ball of fire that explodes instead of a cannonball. I guess that would be unique compared to everything else we have.

Regardless, my point stands with the rest of Geno's specials. Geno Beam is just a standard beam, and there's no way Sakurai will let it be an attack that reaches across the entire stage unless it's charged for a long time like Thoron. Geno Boost is normally used for other party members, but even if Sakurai let Geno use it for himself, it's essentially a variation of Deep Breathing that effects different stats at best. I don't even know how Geno Blast could be used properly outside a Final Smash or something weak like Heavenly Light; maybe if they limited it to one beam. Then there's Geno Whirl. Even if we get a best case scenario and it's exactly how you described it, that's still very similar to Shuriken of Light.

That's why I think if Geno were to get in, Sakurai would have to make a lot of new attacks that weren't in SMRPG. He might keep the names, but I'm not expecting them to function similarly.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

One reason Geno is one of my most wanted (aside from potentially being a really fun character and also just a great fan-pleasing pick a la Banjo) is that he would be a good pick to represent a side of the Mario series that currently doesn't have great representation in Smash: the Mario RPG games... not just Super Mario RPG, but also Paper Mario (which started development as a Super Mario RPG sequel) and Mario & Luigi (the first game having Geno as a cameo).

I would **** my pants out of excitement if Geno became playable and brought with him a bunch of Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi music tracks... especially ones from The Thousand-Year Door and Superstar Saga.

 

[osby]

That's not really a good reason to not want a character in my opinion. I mean, I get it, fans can be toxic, but that applies to pretty much everything. I think the only fan communities I've heard is actively not toxic is either really small, or ToonTown (which is probably both), but I digress. It's best to separate a character from their fandom if you want to be more objective with your subjective evaluation of a character. Find him bland? I don't really get it but it's a pretty good reason not to want a character.

And keep in mind this is just my two cents. I'm not trying to be the thought police or anything. I just think don't like the idea of people ruining characters for others, and I hope this isn't the sole reason why tons of people hate certain characters.

I think it's a perfectly fine reason considering fan demand is literally the only thing that makes Geno possible for Smash in the first place.

You can't just look down on other characters for not having a fanbase as big as yours and then expect people to overlook the faults of the said fanbase.

 

[Perkilator]

Okay, I'm having WAY too much fun with Roster Maker. Here's a general wishlist of mine.

Green borders denote characters I don't badly want, but would be okay with. Yellow borders denote the two Echoes I could be bothered to list (not that I don't want more Echoes).
.

 

[Cosmic77]

Personally, I'd pick Paper Mario to represent the Mario RPG games. He's fairly iconic, his series is seemingly the only one of the three to still be alive, and (if you can look past him being a variation of Mario) he has loads of moveset potential regardless of whether you look at the older PM games or the newer ones. I'd even argue he's currently the easiest Mario character to create a moveset for. He really does have that much material to work with.

I wouldn't shove in content from the other two series though if Paper Mario was DLC. Surprisingly, there's not many Paper Mario tracks in Smash, so I'd love for them to add as many as they can in the bundle. There's also a lot of iconic PM characters who didn't get Spirits, so I'd prefer if the 8-10 new Spirits filled in those gaps (Like Paper Luigi and Paper Peach).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Personally, I'd pick Paper Mario to represent the Mario RPG games. He's fairly iconic, his series is seemingly the only one of the three to still be alive, and (if you can look past him being a variation of Mario) he has loads of moveset potential regardless of whether you look at the older PM games or the newer ones. I'd even argue he's currently the easiest Mario character to create a moveset for. He really does have that much material to work with.

I wouldn't shove in content from the other two series though if Paper Mario was DLC. Surprisingly, there's not many Paper Mario tracks in Smash, so I'd love for them to add as many as they can in the bundle. There's also a lot of iconic PM characters who didn't get Spirits, so I'd prefer if the 8-10 new Spirits filled in those gaps (Like Paper Luigi and Paper Peach).

One of my current predictions actually. In response notably for Mario's anniversary.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I forgot Geno Flash was a ball of fire that explodes instead of a cannonball. I guess that would be unique compared to everything else we have.

Especially if you could aim it. No one really has a powerful projectile that's also aimable.

I think it's a perfectly fine reason considering fan demand is literally the only thing that makes Geno possible for Smash in the first place.

Not really.

If we're trying to give a character a fair judgement, "yeah, but screw his fans" isn't even a relevant criticism. It kinda gets into functions vs. functions territory with how jaded it is.

And again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have this mentality or tire of the character, I just don't personally think it has a place in deciding roster picks.

You can't just look down on other characters for not having a fanbase as big as yours and then expect people to overlook the faults of the said fanbase.

For the record, I don't look down on smaller characters. I do think a series's major characters should get in first, but after those bases are covered, I say go nuts.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Chill Penguin's a minor boss fought twice whereas Geno's a main party member. He's more or less the Rosalina of SMRPG, just without all the later appearances in other games.

You mean he is just another party member, his design was the least appealing in my opinion and a lot of people probably didn't use him at all, the only main party member is Mario. (this does not mean he is not used or popular, but he is not as essential to his game as most people make him out to be)

I would argue Mallow is the Rosalina of SMRPG, at least he has a character arc and makes the story start moving, Geno only has a motivation, but not really a development in the narrative.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not really.

If we're trying to give a character a fair judgement, "yeah, but screw his fans" isn't even a relevant criticism. It kinda gets into functions vs. functions territory with how jaded it is.

And again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have this mentality or tire of the character, I just don't personally think it has a place in deciding roster picks.

At the same time I often see people suggest supporting characters they have zero connection with solely because that fanbase wants the character, if a fanbase acts toxic to me like idk, accusing me of sending death threats multiple times, I won't feel included to go "Oh but that character's fans really want them, I'll pretend to want them for their sake!"

 

[Cosmic77]

At the same time I often see people suggest supporting characters they have zero connection with solely because that fanbase wants the character, if a fanbase acts toxic to me like idk, accusing me of sending death threats multiple times, I won't feel included to go "Oh but that character's fans really want them, I'll pretend to want them for their sake!"

I guess this is one of the rare instances where we agree. Setting aside the fanbase and whether or not they're toxic, I never feel obligated to support a character I have no interest in just because a lot of other people want said character.

I'd rather stay true to myself and support an unpopular character who I genuinely like than to follow the trends and support someone just because everyone else is.

 

[osby]

Not really.

If we're trying to give a character a fair judgement, "yeah, but screw his fans" isn't even a relevant criticism. It kinda gets into functions vs. functions territory with how jaded it is.

And again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have this mentality or tire of the character, I just don't personally think it has a place in deciding roster picks.

I never said my opinions should affect roster picks.

I just don't get why some Geno fans complain about some people not wanting him when they feel free to vocally hate any character they want.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I guess this is one of the rare instances where we agree. Setting aside the fanbase and whether or not they're toxic, I never feel obligated to support a character I have no interest in just because a lot of other people want said character.

I'd rather stay true to myself and support an unpopular character who I genuinely like than to follow the trends and support someone just because everyone else is.

Exactly! **** everyone else! Just like you said!

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Geno talk in a nutshell:

At the end of the day, he's a video game character, he got a significant group of supporters so for now, he's a valid candidate for Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I never said my opinions should affect roster picks.

I just don't get why some Geno fans complain about some people not wanting him when they feel free to vocally hate any character they want.

Same reason any Smash fan shows every character outside their most wanted utter contempt, it's competition and shouldn't be allowed to exist. You'd think after getting their most wanted they'd calm down but they just go to the next one on the list, see Grinch Leak, the half hour between Hero and Banjo's reveal, the people getting mad at legit character leaks, etc

 

[ZelDan]

Fanbases are most likely to affect my feelings on characters that I am largely neutral on. Geno got in that neutral area sometime early on in Ultimate speculation (before Ultimate I didn't really want him at all due to being a one shot from decades ago, but realizing we had no Mario rep from an RPG opened me up to him more). As someone that has seen the good, bad, and ugly of the Geno fanbase, moreso than any other fanbase, that puts Geno in a very awkward position for me.

Fanbases won't really change my feelings on characters that I genuinly already like or already have significant interest in.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

For any character, judging their merit on popularity alone is a poor idea.

If we were to go by people's personal wants and not so much their influenced wishes, we may never get a conclusion on who deserves to get into Smash by any means. Smash fans differ greatly and may not be as adaptable to shifts in common consensus.

I for one disliked the idea of Inkling being a lock for a long time, and only adapted to the idea after experiencing Splatoon for myself.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I for one would not mind Geno. Not an character I exactly want or be hyped about but still imagine would be an fun addition. Be happy for his fans.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For any character, judging their merit on popularity alone is a poor idea.

If we were to go by people's personal wants and not so much their influenced wishes, we may never get a conclusion on who deserves to get into Smash by any means. Smash fans differ greatly and may not be as adaptable to shifts in common consensus.

I for one disliked the idea of Inkling being a lock for a long time, and only adapted to the idea after experiencing Splatoon for myself.

What the **** even is this post? "If we got characters that are overwhelmingly popular requests, they wouldn't truly be deserving unless they were manipulated into wanting them"? I HAVE to be misreading this, explain yourself

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

At the same time I often see people suggest supporting characters they have zero connection with solely because that fanbase wants the character, if a fanbase acts toxic to me like idk, accusing me of sending death threats multiple times, I won't feel included to go "Oh but that character's fans really want them, I'll pretend to want them for their sake!"

That is true. Being happy for a character's fans is a nice sentiment, but a good reason for wanting them it does not make.

And that's not to say that popularity or fan demand isn't a good reason to add a character if you were calling the shots since that's your primary gauge for how much/how many people will like it, though making sure the character adds something fun mechanically is even more important. Fortunately though, this seems to be the easy part so long as you understand the character and how to build a cohesive moveset.

I never said my opinions should affect roster picks.

I just don't get why some Geno fans complain about some people not wanting him when they feel free to vocally hate any character they want.

That's fair.

...the people getting mad at legit character leaks...

This one makes sense if you have the "I hate spoilers" angle.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

What the **** even is this post? "If we got characters that are overwhelmingly popular requests, they wouldn't truly be deserving unless they were manipulated into wanting them"? I HAVE to be misreading this, explain yourself

That wasn't what I meant at all, I was just loosely referring to how people grow into wanting characters through influence. It's not something that gets shoved down our throats.

I don't feel great about mentioning it anymore.