• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

MasterOfKnees

Space Pirate
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
8,579
Location
Denmark
NNID
KneeMaster
Switch FC
SW-6310-1174-0352
Some of these reasons seems subjective, I had played the game, yes, but I just don't get the appeal of him. He's overshadowing the game for me, honestly.
Well yeah, character appeal is entirely subjective, there is no character that is popular in the Smash community for entirely objective reasons. The only objective factor that might play into a character's popularity is something like sales, and only because it roughly tells us how successful or well known a character or franchise is. Even then, not every character that comes from a game that's sold well has a lot of fans, you basically see no support for a GTA 5 character, Dragonborn has a middling following at best, and a lot of people are actively against the potential inclusion of Steve.

The reason characters like Crash and Sora are popular is also very subjective. It's easier to understand for a lot of people than with Geno since they're stars of big series, but at the end of the day it still comes down to people liking their designs, abilities and having good memories from playing their games, which are all subjective things.
 
Last edited:

kirbsmash

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
2,361
Well yeah, character appeal is entirely subjective, there is no character that is popular in the Smash community for entirely objective reasons. The only objective factor that might play into a character's popularity is something like sales, and only because it provides a rough estimate of how well known a character might be to your average gamer and whether they have mass appeal. Even then, not every character that comes from a game that's sold well has a lot of fans, you basically see no support for a GTA 5 character, Dragonborn has a middling following at best, and a lot of people are actively against the potential inclusion of Steve.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue here. You're right. But for me, Geno has been just there for me, honestly. I don't really have a use for him since Bowser and Peach joined in the party.
 

SpectreJordan

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,726
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
NNID
SpectreJordan
The Smash DLC is still set for June, so that's good. It seems like they aren't doing a traditional briefing and that it was/is being held over a conference call, meaning that unlike every other year they haven't said anything about what they plan for E3, or what they plan to do instead this year. We might be in the drought for the long haul at this point.
I think we’ll be in a drought for news on other games for a while, but at this point I bet we see the next Smash character during the Arms character’s presentation.

It sounds like Sakurai & the Smash team are still on schedule, there’s no reason for them to change their schedule because everyone else is behind. Hell, I’d say it’d be encouraged so there’s ANY Nintendo content being released for Switch this year after Xenoblade lol
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
And now, a question for all of you. What is a game(s) that you are not expecting to get a character from, but would be happy to see something like a boss fight, spirit event, assist trophy, Mii costume, or something else to represent it.
I think Agumon from Digimon and Jibanyan from Yo-kai Watch could make for some great Assist Trophies.

Proooooobably gonna get a ton of disagreements for this, but I wouldn’t mind if Crash Bandicoot was a Mii Costume for the Brawler. Mostly because I like those commercials of the guy wearing a Crash costume.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,446
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Even then, not every character that comes from a game that's sold well has a lot of fans, you basically see no support for a GTA 5 character, Dragonborn has a middling following at best, and a lot of people are actively against the potential inclusion of Steve.
Part of this is because of their distance from Nintendo. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is the only game in the series on a Nintendo console (and people get less excited for ports), and the only Grand Theft Auto game on Nintendo consoles is Grand Theft Auto Advance (Which I'm sure no one will have to look up to even believe me).

And Minecraft has the whole "popular thing bad" phenomenon going on. Granted that's not the only reason why people don't want Steve, another one being he's an avatar character and the community hates avatars for some reason (until they don't :ulthero::ulthero2::ulthero3::ulthero4::ultinkling::ultjoker::ultlink::ultlucas::ultness::ultpokemontrainer::ultvillager:).

None of this is meant to disprove your point, I'm just adding my perspective.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue here. You're right. But for me, Geno has been just there for me, honestly. I don't really have a use for him since Bowser and Peach joined in the party.
He may be a bit redundant functionally, but he didn't seem to be worse at his job than Mario and Bowser (unlike Mallow, who was literally just Peach, but not as good). I'd be willing to bet he's there for players who want to run an all DPS team.
 
Last edited:

MasterOfKnees

Space Pirate
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
8,579
Location
Denmark
NNID
KneeMaster
Switch FC
SW-6310-1174-0352
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue here. You're right. But for me, Geno has been just there for me, honestly. I don't really have a use for him since Bowser and Peach joined in the party.
Yeah, I get that people can be confused about Geno's popularity in the sense that he's not even that important in his one and only game. I mean, the story more or less begins and ends with him, but his involvement in between that is entirely optional, and Mario is the de facto main character of the game regardless, so not even everyone who's actually played SMRPG will grow to care enough about him to support him for Smash.

He's very much the type of character where you either get it or you don't, and I think you'll figure out which side you're on pretty early during your time speculating about Smash. I just wanted to point out that there's not really any magic code that's made Geno as popular within the speculation community as he's become. I do think there are some outside factors that have helped his modern resurgence (Sakurai's quotes, Ridley and K. Rool getting in, the Mii Costume being MIA), but the roots of his popularity go way back to the pre-Brawl days, and back then it came from something as simple as a lot of people liking the character (in large part due to good timing between the community's then prominent generation as well as the initial surge of 3rd party requests, combined with what I mentioned in my original post), so when the idea was put forward and started being taken seriously it just kept on gaining more and more momentum.
 
Last edited:

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,974
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Geno became really popular due to Forest Maze becoming a meme due to a musical video of SMRPG, that song ends with Geno in the background with the last part saying "I'm a gaming god", I'm pretty sure that had a big factor as that video popped up during 2007 or so iirc
 

MasterOfKnees

Space Pirate
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
8,579
Location
Denmark
NNID
KneeMaster
Switch FC
SW-6310-1174-0352
Geno became really popular due to Forest Maze becoming a meme due to a musical video of SMRPG, that song ends with Geno in the background with the last part saying "I'm a gaming god", I'm pretty sure that had a big factor as that video popped up during 2007 or so iirc
It definitely did play a pretty significant part, although I think it was mostly one of several things that kept his momentum going strong rather than being one of the initial driving forces behind his fanbase. I'd say it probably helped a lot in bringing more awareness to the character outside of dedicated Smash forums (the speculation community was much more segmented back then), but Geno's popularity was already well on its way up in 2006, as can be seen on old threads on this forum. I admit that part is more based on research and being there slightly after the fact than actual first hand experience though, as I only joined Brawl speculation around the time the Dojo opened in 2007.
 
Last edited:

SNEKeater

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,375
Nintendo's financials released.
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2020/200507_3e.pdf
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/software/index.html
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/index.html

Nothing really new in the schedule for games. Xenoblade, Clubhouse Games and Famicom Detective Club (in Japan) this year, Bayo 3, Metroid Prime 4 and BotW2 still tba. Don't know if there's really anything to pull from here for character discussion but figure some people will be interested.

Animal Crossing is making bank.
Not really a surprise at this point but it still hurts to see Prime 4 and Bayonetta 3 in this situation.

I could add Shin Megami Tensei V here despite not being a first party title.
 

XorahnGaia

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
309
Bravely isn't firstparty either. Meanwhile NMH3, which is ALSO a 2020 release last ww checked, has no ****ing info at all
BD II is mentioned in the document because Nintendo will publish the game in the west.
I guess NMH3 will be self-published by Grasshopper.
 

toonito

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
828
And now, a question for all of you. What is a game(s) that you are not expecting to get a character from, but would be happy to see something like a boss fight, spirit event, assist trophy, Mii costume, or something else to represent it.
answers in bold

Boss Fights:
Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy: Giga Bowser
Bowser, Bowser Jr, Wario.: Mario
Yoshi: Kamek
Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong: King K Rool
King K Rool: Donkey Kong
Link, Sheik, Zelda: Ganon
Young Link: Skull Kid
Toon Link: Toon Ganondorf
Ganondorf: Link
Samus, Zero Suit Samus: Meta Ridley (big)
Dark Suit Samus, Ridley: Samus
Kirby, Meta Knight: Emperor DeDeDe (new)
King DeDeDe: Kirby
Little Mac: Giga Mac
Fox, Falco: Wolf
Wolf: Fox
Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff: Mewtwo
Lucario, Greninja, Incineroar: Rayquaza
Mewtwo: Pokemon Trainer
Pokemon Trainer: Blue (Gyarados, Growlithe, Exeggcute; type advantages in this battle are on)
Captain Falcon: Black Shadow
Pit, Dark Pit, Palutena: Medusa
Ness, Lucas: Porky
Wii Fit Trainer: Wii Fat Trainer (made up, out of shape WFT)
Shulk: Zanza
Pac Man: Big Ghost
Simon: Dracula
Snake: Metal Gear
Sonic: Dr. Eggman
Mega Man: Dr. Wily
Ryu: M. Bison
Ken: Ryu
Bayonetta: Baldur
Cloud: Sephiroth
Banjo-Kazooie: Gruntilda
Terry Bogard: Geese Howard

Deluxe Mii Costumes:
Geno (Gunner)
Viewtiful Joe (Brawler)
Hollow Knight (Swordfighter)


Stages:
Tetris
Minecraft


Assist Trophies:
Dan Hibiki (Street Fighter)
Blanka (Street Fighter)
Waddle Doo (Kirby)
Glass Joe (Punch-Out)
 
Last edited:

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,446
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
So what is the deal with avatar characters? A lot of people give them flak for being boring, but a lot of them are fairly well liked within the community. As far as I'm concerned there are 17 of them in the game: :ultbyleth::ultcorrin::ulthero::ultinkling::ultjoker::ultlink::ultlucas::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter::ultness::ultpokemontrainer::ultrobin::ulttoonlink::ultvillager::ultwiifittrainer::ultyounglink:

Hero, Inkling, Joker, Link, Lucas, Ness, Pokémon Trainer, and Villager are the most well received, with Joker and the Inklings being popular before their inclusion, and Lucas being wanted back after being cut (though this applies to most veterans). To be fair though, the Pokémon Trainer is kind of cheating since you don't actually play as him, and people generally didn't want him back because Squirtle and Ivysaur were seen as wasted roster slots (though I may be misremembering that with people just not wanting them on their own). At present though the character is fairly well liked since the implementation of his swapping mechanic has finally been done right. Hero had some backlash, but it was over "anime swordsman" and "ew RNG" stuff. Neither of which were really disliking Hero as a character specifically (though there were quite a few people who assumed Erdrick would be boring). Ness gets a lot of hate because of PK Fire, but I've never seen anyone hating his spot on the roster in principle. Lastly, Link has had the spotlight on him for so long that people don't really consider him to be an avatar anymore even though he still is, now even moreso than ever. Regardless, he is an extremely beloved character within Nintendo's lineup.

The Mii Fighters, Robin, Wii Fit Trainer, and the other Links have a more "meh" reception. The Mii Fighters in premise sound like a lot of fun, but in practice don't really interest people. This is probably because, why play as a generic brawler, swordfighter, or gunner when you have Mario, about 12 other swordfighters, and Samus/Dark Samus respectively. I'd imagine the people that do like them are happy they exist rather than actively excited for their inclusion, though that's probably the point. Robin gets hate mostly due to being from Fire Emblem with his positive trait usually being cited as "at least he's not another Marth". Outside of Super Smash Bros., he's a fairly well liked character. People's problem with the other two Links has more to do with the fact that they feel redundant rather than the fact that they exist at all. That and the three of them make up half of The Legend of Zelda's characters, which is pretty sad. Wii Fit Trainer is just a weird character that nobody asked for so people are either going to love her or not care since she's not really that offensive an edition.

The only two avatars that are actively hated are Corrin and Byleth. Both get the "Fire Emblem bad" hate, but Corrin is even hated within the Fire Emblem community due to his (or really, the game's) awful writing. Byleth isn't nearly as unpopular as Corrin is, but even for a Fire Emblem character, he wasn't most people's first choice of the realistic roster picks, though they do understand why he was picked over her.

I guess where I'm going with all this is: Why are avatar characters seen as "the boring picks that shouldn't happen" when a lot of the ones we have in the game are either incredibly well liked or bring new and interesting ideas to the table. Did people just get burned by Corrin and Byleth or is there something I'm overlooking?

You know, more representation for Wario Land could be nice.
Wario what now? The only Wario series I know of is called WarioWare.

-Sakurai, probably.
 
Last edited:

Curious Villager

Puzzles...
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
11,770
Location
London
I feel that's a bit disingenuous. It may have helped, but it can't be the only reason. Like, Banjo & Kazooie were planned (or at least considered) for Super Smash Bros. Melee, and people wanted them on their merits as characters. Likewise we know characters like Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, and who we assume to be Plussle & Minun were planned for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and the Chorus Kids in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U, but support for them is pretty much nonexistent.
To be fair, every time someone tries to support Toon Zelda, they get shunned immediately by the community for being another Zelda.
But hey, feel free to support the likes of Hilda, BotW Zelda or even Twilight Princess Zelda as their own separate characters as you please though, despite the latter offering even less aside from a more stoic personality...

As for the Chorus Kids, pretty sure we don't really have any exact evidence on who the Rhythm Heaven character was asides from certain rumours. People are still interested in seeing a Rhythm Heaven character in general though, but like most first parties, they've kind of been thrown into the backburner these days..
 
Last edited:

CaptainAmerica

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
3,089
Location
New York
NNID
TomOfHyrule
And now, a question for all of you. What is a game(s) that you are not expecting to get a character from, but would be happy to see something like a boss fight, spirit event, assist trophy, Mii costume, or something else to represent it.
I have wanted a Tetris stagge since Brawl gave us those great remixes. I've tended to make this in Stage Builder, but what I have in mind can't be easily done. Granted, it would be a frustrating stage to play, but it would be really cool to see.

The stage is set in a pit (so the only blast zone KOs are through the top). As the match proceeds, the AI will drop blocks in and basically play a game of Tetris (the game will always generate the needed blocks to keep the Tetris game from losing). So basically, you're fighting among a bunch of very slowly falling blocks. And if you get trapped under one...

EDIT: Image fail. It's the .gif of Samus being crushed from the SSB Wiki

So your goal as a player is to either throw the enemies up to the blast zone, or trap them under blocks.

As the game completes lines, that line disappears and deals damage and vertical knockback to anyone standing on it. The more lines they take out, the more damage and knockback, so a Tetris ends up being a OHKO.

So what is the deal with avatar characters? A lot of people give them flak for being boring, but a lot of them are fairly well liked within the community. As far as I'm concerned there are 17 of them in the game: :ultbyleth::ultcorrin::ulthero::ultinkling::ultjoker::ultlink::ultlucas::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter::ultness::ultpokemontrainer::ultrobin::ulttoonlink::ultvillager::ultwiifittrainer::ultyounglink:

Hero, Inkling, Joker, Link, Lucas, Ness, Pokémon Trainer, and Villager are the most well received, with Joker and the Inklings being popular before their inclusion, and Lucas being wanted back after being cut (though this applies to most veterans). To be fair though, the Pokémon Trainer is kind of cheating since you don't actually play as him, and people generally didn't want him back because Squirtle and Ivysaur were seen as wasted roster slots (though I may be misremembering that with people just not wanting them on their own). At present though the character is fairly well liked since the implementation of his swapping mechanic has finally been done right. Hero had some backlash, but it was over "anime swordsman" and "ew RNG" stuff. Neither of which were really disliking Hero as a character specifically (though there were quite a few people who assumed Erdrick would be boring). Ness gets a lot of hate because of PK Fire, but I've never seen anyone hating his spot on the roster in principle. Lastly, Link has had the spotlight on him for so long that people don't really consider him to be an avatar anymore even though he still is, now even moreso than ever. Regardless, he is an extremely beloved character within Nintendo's lineup.

The Mii Fighters, Robin, Wii Fit Trainer, and the other Links have a more "meh" reception. The Mii Fighters in premise sound like a lot of fun, but in practice don't really interest people. This is probably because, why play as a generic brawler, swordfighter, or gunner when you have Mario, about 12 other swordfighters, and Samus/Dark Samus respectively. I'd imagine the people that do like them are happy they exist rather than actively excited for their inclusion, though that's probably the point. Robin gets hate mostly due to being from Fire Emblem with his positive trait usually being cited as "at least he's not another Marth". Outside of Super Smash Bros., he's a fairly well liked character. People's problem with the other two Links has more to do with the fact that they feel redundant rather than the fact that they exist at all. That and the three of them make up half of The Legend of Zelda's characters, which is pretty sad. Wii Fit Trainer is just a weird character that nobody asked for so people are either going to love her or not care since she's not really that offensive an edition.

The only two avatars that are actively hated are Corrin and Byleth. Both get the "Fire Emblem bad" hate, but Corrin is even hated within the Fire Emblem community due to his (or really, the game's) awful writing. Byleth isn't nearly as unpopular as Corrin is, but even for a Fire Emblem character, he wasn't most people's first choice of the realistic roster picks, though they do understand why he was picked over her.

I guess where I'm going with all this is: Why are avatar characters seen as "the boring picks that shouldn't happen" when a lot of the ones we have in the game are either incredibly well liked or bring new and interesting ideas to the table. Did people just get burned by Corrin and Byleth or is there something I'm overlooking?
I think a lot of the avatar hate comes from two places: 1) "They're not my most wanted" 2) "They have no personality aside from what I give them in my RP".

People love to play up personality like it's the most important thing. And yes, personality is important, but the characters who are avatars in RPGs are pretty blank slates that you can put your own personality with. Doubly so for WRPGs (which are not in Smash) since those characters are fully insert-character-here as opposed to the JRPG 'here's a character with a prebuilt backstory, now play as you want.' But Sakurai and his team can give an avatar a personality, and the fact that they're the playable character means they have a lot of moveset potential to work with.

I remember people digging up complaints (they claimed it was from Japanese fans) about Ridley that he was not a worthy addition since he didn't have a personality beyond killing. I also remember the RTC thread would constantly go on about how charcter XYZ (I think they were usually Kid Icarus characters) were so deserving since they were really funny. Thing is, some specific traits like humor don't really translate to a fighting game, whereas even a blank slate can be allowed to emote for a fight (heck, we have a robot emoting, and that was a major thing in Sm4sh that ROB stopped emoting due to a bug, despite the literal ROB being a toy). And yeah, the personality may not be exactly what you had planned, but in a fighting game, it's a little tough to expand a few facial expressions into a full personality and vice versa. If we take Link for example, he's actually got a whole personality in BotW: He's nervous about how the world sees him, and he dedicates himself to his training; he's silent because he feels unworthy, but he opens up with food; he's haunted by his previous failure... but that doesn't really read from his Smash incarnation. In Smash, he's another fighter with some facial expressions. Wario's another great one. Despite all of us knowing that his entire thing is greed, his 'personality' in Smash is LOL FARTS.

Not to mention that anyone, even someone who isn't in the Fire Emblem series is just "Another swordsman! Ugh!" I also love the people who complain about swordsmen, then go on to talk about someone like Dante and how he could use a sword ("but he has a gun too so he's different!")

Obviously I don't have a problem with avatar characters considering my most wanted, but to me this argument does come off as another way for people to dismiss other options.

Even then, not every character that comes from a game that's sold well has a lot of fans, you basically see no support for a GTA 5 character, Dragonborn has a middling following at best
Funny you should mention those two: those are the only two Western games to have gotten perfect 40/40 on Famitsu, which also shows they were pretty nicely received in Japan. They both also won GOTY from Spike (later the Game Awards) for their respective years. They're really influential...but they're not one of the golden children, so nobody really talks about them.

I know one of the main things that people discount them with is "no Nintendo history!" as if that matters anymore. I mean, Snake, Cloud, and Joker are all most associated with PlayStation with maybe a handful of forgotten titles between them on Nintendo consoles. And that's also disregarding the influence that Skyrim/GTA have had on actual Nintendo games - I know there are more than a few parallels in BotW that made it feel a bit like an Elder Scrolls game.

Incidentally, if anyone is interested in one of those two, come to the support thread in my sig!
 
Last edited:

Garteam

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,309
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Garteam
I'm being a bit nitpicky here, but can anybody tell me the appeal of playable geno?
As many people have mentioned already, a lot of Geno's appeal comes down to a few factors: he's cool, he's been a long time request, and he's a major underdog.

Geno's backstory is pretty unusual and high concept for a Mario character: he's a star possessing a wooden doll to fight an army of sentient weapons. That already makes him stick out a fair bit. He's also characterized in a way that gives him a lot of attention. He's the party's Gandalf, giving exposition on the various locations and enemies that party faces along with general advice, while also being one of the most assertive and charismatic members of the group. He's also very powerful in gameplay, with most people agreeing that Geno is Mario RPG's best offensive character. As such, Geno left a pretty strong impression on many people, even though he was only in one game.

Likewise, Geno's requests go all the back to Melee, but he really started to pick up steam during the Brawl speculation period. Basically everyone and their dog was calling out for Geno around this time, which kind of makes sense. The kids who grew up playing Mario RPG in 1996 were now old enough to advocate for who they wanted to see in Brawl by 2008. Popular fan animations from the time like Rawest Forest and Smash Kingdom helped introduce Geno to a new generation as well. Likewise, Geno is one of the last major characters from that era who isn't already in (Unlike Dedede, Diddy Kong, Ike, Ridley, etc.) and still has significant fan support behind him (Unlike Krystal, Midna, Lyn, etc.). As such, there's also an appeal to have Geno get in to help "complete the collection" (which is fitting, given Geno is literally a toy).

FInally, Geno is basically the ultimate Smash underdog. Being completely honest, Geno has very little going for him in a vacuum outside of his popularity. His only role is as a supporting character in a 24 year old game that has notorious rights issues. However, he's got a few things that don't make him a never-ever: Cloud and Hero getting Square Enix involved, Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo all joining the roster for their popularity despite historically having major hurdles to be overcome, his Mii Costume in Smash for Wii U and Spirit in Ultimate's base game, and Sakurai admitting that he considered Geno for Brawl give him some hope. Geno basically does what any good underdog does, he has enough evidence to not be entirely hopeless while also having an uphill battle.
 
Last edited:

blackghost

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
2,249
So what is the deal with avatar characters? A lot of people give them flak for being boring, but a lot of them are fairly well liked within the community. As far as I'm concerned there are 17 of them in the game: :ultbyleth::ultcorrin::ulthero::ultinkling::ultjoker::ultlink::ultlucas::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter::ultness::ultpokemontrainer::ultrobin::ulttoonlink::ultvillager::ultwiifittrainer::ultyounglink:

Hero, Inkling, Joker, Link, Lucas, Ness, Pokémon Trainer, and Villager are the most well received, with Joker and the Inklings being popular before their inclusion, and Lucas being wanted back after being cut (though this applies to most veterans). To be fair though, the Pokémon Trainer is kind of cheating since you don't actually play as him, and people generally didn't want him back because Squirtle and Ivysaur were seen as wasted roster slots (though I may be misremembering that with people just not wanting them on their own). At present though the character is fairly well liked since the implementation of his swapping mechanic has finally been done right. Hero had some backlash, but it was over "anime swordsman" and "ew RNG" stuff. Neither of which were really disliking Hero as a character specifically (though there were quite a few people who assumed Erdrick would be boring). Ness gets a lot of hate because of PK Fire, but I've never seen anyone hating his spot on the roster in principle. Lastly, Link has had the spotlight on him for so long that people don't really consider him to be an avatar anymore even though he still is, now even moreso than ever. Regardless, he is an extremely beloved character within Nintendo's lineup.

The Mii Fighters, Robin, Wii Fit Trainer, and the other Links have a more "meh" reception. The Mii Fighters in premise sound like a lot of fun, but in practice don't really interest people. This is probably because, why play as a generic brawler, swordfighter, or gunner when you have Mario, about 12 other swordfighters, and Samus/Dark Samus respectively. I'd imagine the people that do like them are happy they exist rather than actively excited for their inclusion, though that's probably the point. Robin gets hate mostly due to being from Fire Emblem with his positive trait usually being cited as "at least he's not another Marth". Outside of Super Smash Bros., he's a fairly well liked character. People's problem with the other two Links has more to do with the fact that they feel redundant rather than the fact that they exist at all. That and the three of them make up half of The Legend of Zelda's characters, which is pretty sad. Wii Fit Trainer is just a weird character that nobody asked for so people are either going to love her or not care since she's not really that offensive an edition.

The only two avatars that are actively hated are Corrin and Byleth. Both get the "Fire Emblem bad" hate, but Corrin is even hated within the Fire Emblem community due to his (or really, the game's) awful writing. Byleth isn't nearly as unpopular as Corrin is, but even for a Fire Emblem character, he wasn't most people's first choice of the realistic roster picks, though they do understand why he was picked over her.

I guess where I'm going with all this is: Why are avatar characters seen as "the boring picks that shouldn't happen" when a lot of the ones we have in the game are either incredibly well liked or bring new and interesting ideas to the table. Did people just get burned by Corrin and Byleth or is there something I'm overlooking?
you hit the nail on the head. people clamor for personality in their characters then hate on the strong personalities that show up in-game.

as for the geno discussion, he's a just a giant "meh" for me personally. fanbase built on memes and begging, and insisting he's this super popular cool character. one statement is subjective and the other is an overstatement. smash ultimate dlc has been characters to build relationships, advertisement, or a combination of the two.

im also skeptical of whether geno will even be fun to play if he gets in. i dont want another banjo situation. where the fanbase insists it wants a retro character that is even more likely to be a zoner than banjo was, only to drop him in a month and complain he wasn't implemented correctly. I do find it funnny that the most liked DLC (from what i can tell) are the two characters that the least people wanted in terry and hero.
 
Last edited:

Koopaul

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
2,336
How is Wii Fit Trainer an avatar character? You don't even play as them.
 
Last edited:

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
9,547
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Here's the new top 10 Switch games in sales.

| Mario Kart 8 Deluxe | 24.77M |
| Super Smash Bros. Ultimate | 18.84M |
| Super Mario Odyssey | 17.41M |
| The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild | 17.41M |
| Pokémon Sword/Shield | 17.37M |
| Animal Crossing: New Horizons | 13.41M |
| Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee | 11.97M |
| Splatoon 2 | 10.13M |
| Super Mario Party | 10.10M |
| New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe | 6.60M |
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
9,810
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
You know, more representation for Wario Land could be nice.
View attachment 271177
(Made up my own Challenger Pack.)
The Captain Syrup Support Thread could certainly use all our support.

J.C. Thornton created a great 3D Model for the character as well.

 
Last edited:

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,446
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
How is Wii Fit Trainer an avatar character? You don't even play as them.
While they weren't created with the purpose of representing you, they are a representation of a fitness instructor, and in that sense, they are still avatars since their purpose is to represent a person rather than to be their own character.
 
Last edited:

Michael the Spikester

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
29,714
Location
Canada
Switch FC
SW-0818-8347-0203
Here's the new top 10 Switch games in sales.

| Mario Kart 8 Deluxe | 24.77M |
| Super Smash Bros. Ultimate | 18.84M |
| Super Mario Odyssey | 17.41M |
| The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild | 17.41M |
| Pokémon Sword/Shield | 17.37M |
| Animal Crossing: New Horizons | 13.41M |
| Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee | 11.97M |
| Splatoon 2 | 10.13M |
| Super Mario Party | 10.10M |
| New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe | 6.60M |
Still surprised Smash isn't number 1 given popularity.
 

Evil Trapezium

Smash Master
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
3,291
NNID
GuyManRunnin
Switch FC
SW-2246-2414-0334
I'm being a bit nitpicky here, but can anybody tell me the appeal of playable geno?
Well he would bring a unique fighting style being a gun mage, he can shoot from his arm cannon as well as cast magic and he has an appealing design being a wooden puppet with a striking blue hat and cape.

That's all that really needs to be said about him. I don't understand why some people really don't want him as a fighter.
 

♕Pretty Roger♕

God Roger
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
141
NNID
RogelioWii
3DS FC
0602-6365-8680
Switch FC
SW-2762-7992-4597
Still surprised Smash isn't number 1 given popularity.
Mario Kart is a lot more popular with casual people, and the Switch's duality works better for Mario Kart than for Smash. Hoping for Mario Kart 9 soon <3
Also happy to see Peach appears in 5 out of the top 10 sold Switch games and Daisy appears in 3 of them as well.
 

Mamboo07

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
9,553
Location
Agartha, Hollow Earth
Well he would bring a unique fighting style being a gun mage, he can shoot from his arm cannon as well as cast magic and he has an appealing design being a wooden puppet with a striking blue hat and cape.

That's all that really needs to be said about him. I don't understand why some people really don't want him as a fighter.
Me too, dunno why.
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
9,547
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Well he would bring a unique fighting style being a gun mage, he can shoot from his arm cannon as well as cast magic and he has an appealing design being a wooden puppet with a striking blue hat and cape.

That's all that really needs to be said about him. I don't understand why some people really don't want him as a fighter.
For me, the problem with Geno is that Sakurai would have to make a lot of the moveset from scratch. He has his standard finger bullets, but not many of Geno's five special attacks can be used in Smash, and the ones that can feel almost identical to existing attacks.

Also, the appealing design thing really depends on the person, because I know a lot of people (myself included) consider a wooden puppet with a blue cape and hat to be somewhat generic and out of place for a Mario character. No offense to his supporters, but from my point of view, he genuinely does feel like a Deviantart OC that made it into a Mario game.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,459
Alright, show of hands; if DLC bosses were possible as at least gifts in updates (a la the Tockles Spirit), which bosses would you’ve liked to see regardless?
Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross(N64 version) [Star Fox]
Arceus [Pokemon]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]
 

PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
9,031
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Well he would bring a unique fighting style being a gun mage, he can shoot from his arm cannon as well as cast magic and he has an appealing design being a wooden puppet with a striking blue hat and cape.

That's all that really needs to be said about him. I don't understand why some people really don't want him as a fighter.
I think that Chill Penguin from Mega Man X would be a rather neat addition to the roster. Do I vocalize that desire? No, because he's an irrelevant one off. I would be laughed off the site if I started campaigning for him. What's different between him and Geno?
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,462
Location
Sweden
Here's the new top 10 Switch games in sales.

| Mario Kart 8 Deluxe | 24.77M |
| Super Smash Bros. Ultimate | 18.84M |
| Super Mario Odyssey | 17.41M |
| The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild | 17.41M |
| Pokémon Sword/Shield | 17.37M |
| Animal Crossing: New Horizons | 13.41M |
| Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee | 11.97M |
| Splatoon 2 | 10.13M |
| Super Mario Party | 10.10M |
| New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe | 6.60M |
Worth noting is that New Horizons leapfrogged New Leaf and Wild World in just 6 weeks*, and Sword / Shield's about to pass Diamond / Pearl. 3 Houses is close to 3 million (wouldn't that make it the first FE game to pass that mark?).

Funny you should mention those two: those are the only two Western games to have gotten perfect 40/40 on Famitsu, which also shows they were pretty nicely received in Japan. They both also won GOTY from Spike (later the Game Awards) for their respective years. They're really influential...but they're not one of the golden children, so nobody really talks about them.

I know one of the main things that people discount them with is "no Nintendo history!" as if that matters anymore. I mean, Snake, Cloud, and Joker are all most associated with PlayStation with maybe a handful of forgotten titles between them on Nintendo consoles. And that's also disregarding the influence that Skyrim/GTA have had on actual Nintendo games - I know there are more than a few parallels in BotW that made it feel a bit like an Elder Scrolls game.

Incidentally, if anyone is interested in one of those two, come to the support thread in my sig!
Huh, TIL. Still though, it's not just that they're not golden children I'd imagine. At least in GTA's case it might be difficult to make a moveset that stays true to the games while also keeping things appropriate for CERO.

Skyrim though could be interesting, I agree on that notion. I just do wonder if Skyrim has the problem of being overshadowed (relatively speaking) by Doom - at least until recently.

*(I wouldn't be surprised if a notable chunk - my completely uneducated guess is 1-1,5 million - of the 13 million are Chinese consumers buying Japanese copies of New Horizons. And yes, wouldn't be surprised either if Chinese consumers continue to buy New Horizons even after the Chinese government de-listed New Horizons.)
 
Last edited:

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,974
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
For me, the problem with Geno is that Sakurai would have to make a lot of the moveset from scratch. He has his standard finger bullets, but not many of Geno's five special attacks can be used in Smash, and the ones that can feel almost identical to existing attacks.
I don't even like Geno and this is a buzzword argument. Sakurai makes **** up all the time and when he commented on Geno in the past, he said Mii Gunner was pretty much how he imagined Geno working, the only issue being implied that either Square, Nintendo or both were unwilling to play ball
 

ARandomFruit

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Messages
217
My only problem with Geno isn't even really a problem with the character it's that people really want him to have timed hits but in order to do that you'd either have to make all his timed attacks command grabs, have them all have really weird endlag or have it so you can only have 1 projectile at a time which doesn't sound too bad but all of them just sound really either boring or just kinda bad I guess? Unless there's a way I'm not thinking of which could be the case I'm not really a expert on this type of thinking. Besides that yeah Geno is pretty cool though sometimes I wish Smithy was similar in popularity to him because Smithy is also pretty cool or in my opinion at least.
 

HansShotFirst20

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
615
Location
Bochum, Germany
NNID
HanShot1st
I don't even like Geno and this is a buzzword argument. Sakurai makes **** up all the time and when he commented on Geno in the past, he said Mii Gunner was pretty much how he imagined Geno working, the only issue being implied that either Square, Nintendo or both were unwilling to play ball
Idk if he ever said that mii gunner was the way he envisioned Geno being, but he definitely said that the reason he wanted to include Geno was he thought it would be interesting to make a moveset based on his arm cannon -- and I think any Geno plans based on that idea that carried over into Smash 4 werewiped off the face of the Earth when Sakurai got the rights to ****ing Mega Man.

also

"Wait, who's Geno?"
-anyone not on this site
 
Last edited:

Perkilator

Smash Legend
Writing Team
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
11,438
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
For me, the problem with Geno is that Sakurai would have to make a lot of the moveset from scratch. He has his standard finger bullets, but not many of Geno's five special attacks can be used in Smash, and the ones that can feel almost identical to existing attacks.
Not to call anyone names like “stupid”, but need I remind you that Sakurai has made movesets for:
-:ulticeclimbers: Two nomads who only jump and swing their hammers
-:ultgnw: An LCD whatshisface
-:ultrob: A toy from the 80’s
-:ultvillager::ultisabelle: Village people
-:ultwiifittrainer: A virtual fitness instructor
-:ultduckhunt: A dog who picks up the shot ducks
-:ultpiranha: A potted plant

I’m sure he could find a way to make Geno work.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,459
Sam & Max though? All of my yes.
Sam & Max are originally comic book characters. Not eligible.

I've seen some people in the thread suggest Geese Howard or Rugal Bernstein which would be cool and would be my picks imo.
Bosses should be reserved for characters that wouldn't work as playable characters.

Those two would both work just fine as playable characters.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom