Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[pupNapoleon]

It was also reaffirmed by another credible (as far as people have said) source.

What source is that? I havent seen any other sources.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I saw both Kiryu and Reimu got brought up earlier and both of them are in my top most wanted list so...

Kiryu would be a fantastic addition to Smash since he'd be a unique brawler character and Yakuza has been exploding in popularity lately. Also Yakuza has the "Metal Gear Solid" syndrome of being both serious and goofy at the same time. I'd like to see Kiryu get in, even if there is competition with Arle, who I also would like to see in Smash. Given how there's several Sega characters in the roster already, it can make easy discussion to get him in. The question is what they can do with his moveset but I imagine he'd be stance changing to best reflect all the moves he had in the franchise.


I feel like people are underestimating Reimu a bit. Touhou is one of the longer lasting Indie series, being around since 1997 on the PC Engine and all the way to now and it basically blew up the doujin scene in Japan. It holds guiness record titles and it inspired people like Toby Fox to compose music and make games. ZUN also admitted he'd like to see Touhou content in smash and given how lax he is, ZUN may be the easiest person to negotiate for than some other third parties and their companies people bring up. She isn't in this "Very likely" category but she also isn't in the "100% impossible" category as people keep saying.


I'd love to have both in Smash considering both series actually mean something to me and I'm willing to put both franchises on a top list of favorite gaming series. Even though I have noticed some people, mainly on certain sites like Gamefaqs act like Reimu is Voldemort and get offended at her being merely brought up in any capacity. Doesn't stop me from wanting her or anyone else for that matter.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm curious, do you think it would be a character from:

- LoL
- Fortnight
- Overwatch

other

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm curious, do you think it would be a character from:

- LoL
- Fortnight
- Overwatch

other

LoL, even though I still think that rumor is fake and the Trials of Mana spirits were a lucky guess. Riot is owned by Tencent right? (I think Epic is too but please God keep Fortnite away fromSmash)

OW has too much backlash surrounding it rn to justify a Smash playable inclusion, not to mention the Switch release was disappointing (can barely run, no card in the case but a digital code instead). I can see Spirits at the maximum.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

LoL, even though I still think that rumor is fake and the Trials of Mana spirits were a lucky guess. Riot is owned by Tencent right? (I think Epic is too but please God keep Fortnite away fromSmash)

OW has too much backlash surrounding it rn to justify a Smash playable inclusion, not to mention the Switch release was disappointing (can barely run, no card in the case but a digital code instead). I can see Spirits at the maximum.

Sorry guys, we can't have Nintendo characters, they're profiting off of China's Nazi-esque workcamps, there'd be too much backlash as Mario is now an icon of Muslim slave labour

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm curious, do you think it would be a character from:

- LoL
- Fortnight
- Overwatch

other

It could be any of them. One of the most believe leaks in history for first one, and League of Legends is already a very notable game. The hardest thing is "who to choose", not "why put it in".

Rest are very popular series with a lot more obvious choices.

So it's all easy to make sell. Could happen.

 

[PeridotGX]

Guys I found Ivan Vanko's Smashboards account it's him he's real

ziz post doez not have de burd. giv the burd.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I guess I wasnt specific enough...

if we are going to get a massive online game in the vein of those... who do you think it would be?

 

[osby]

OW has too much backlash surrounding it rn to justify a Smash playable inclusion, not to mention the Switch release was disappointing (can barely run, no card in the case but a digital code instead). I can see Spirits at the maximum.

People still say this after everyone applauded how we got three Konami characters?

 

[SKX31]

LoL, even though I still think that rumor is fake and the Trials of Mana spirits were a lucky guess. Riot is owned by Tencent right? (I think Epic is too but please God keep Fortnite away fromSmash)

Riot is owned by Tencent, yes. Epic OTOH is minority - Sweeney has 60 % and practically total control. Tencent has the other 40 %. Tencent's investment back in 2012 did, however, signal Epic's shift to games-as-a-service (leading to Epic Game Store and Fortnite). Tencent does also have 5 % in Ubisoft and Activision-Blizzard respectively, but not much say there. But those 5 % still give them a say. I heavily suspect Tencent's web is a major reason why Nintendo chose to work with them on matters such as the Switch's Chinese release.

When I say that Tencent's about as big as Facebook (in terms of company size) their presence in other companies is partly why. NeatEase, the second biggest Chinese video game company (about as big as Spotify), only has a stake in Bungie AFAIK.

Sorry guys, we can't have Nintendo characters, they're profiting off of China's Nazi-esque workcamps, there'd be too much backlash as Mario is now an icon of Muslim slave labour

The worst part about this is that Tencent's way too close for comfort on this (I've emphasized that Tencent's Skype has grown to the point it practically doubles as China's ID system). While Tencent = / = The Chinese government / regime (the two have had intense conflicts in the past), things are still too close.

I'm curious, do you think it would be a character from:

- LoL
- Fortnight
- Overwatch

other

Incredibly difficult to say. I'm kinda leaning LoL due to Wild Rift probably getting to the Switch in 2021 as well as Tencent practically hugging Nintendo.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I guess I wasnt specific enough...

if we are going to get a massive online game in the vein of those... who do you think it would be?

Um... I don't know, a FFXIV rep? I'm spitballing here.

 

[SNEKeater]

Unrelated to Nintendo, but

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

Geoff has basically 'made' an extended E3 between May and August. Trailers, reveals, gameplays, and more. Nintendo isn't involved.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Unrelated to Nintendo, but

Geoff has basically 'made' an extended E3 between May and August. Trailers, reveals, gameplays, and more. Nintendo isn't involved.

Shouldn't this be in the social thread?

Also come on Injustice 3!

 

[SNEKeater]

Shouldn't this be in the social thread?

Also come on Injustice 3!

Well, I thought this could be interesting to discuss because a few pages ago we talked about the supossed absence of Direct for June.

 

[Garteam]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

.

Man, the Dorito Pope Cinematic Universe is looking good.

It is kinda interesting that Nintendo isn't here though. I guess Nintendo thought their directs have enough name recognition and general hype behind them that they don't need to be part of a bigger event?

Regardless, I'd still be pretty damn surprised if we didn't get something between May and August, even if its only a mini-direct.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Unrelated to Nintendo, but

-snip snap-

Geoff has basically 'made' an extended E3 between May and August. Trailers, reveals, gameplays, and more. Nintendo isn't involved.

It says 'Lineup phase 1' so maybe Nintendo will get involved later on in one of the next phases, who knows?... Geoff probably knows...

 

[Lionfranky]

Speaking of denying characters due to their parent companies...

Doom Slayer - Bethesda's bad business practice with Fallout 76... and recently dispute with the composer
Ryu Hayabusa - Koei's crappy costume sales practice... paying dollar for switching hair, remember? Although they fixed it.
Crash - Activision... do I have to say more? I guess they got better recently... but barely

Sorry if I'm missing others... I am just bringing up characters from top of my head.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Speaking of denying characters due to their parent companies...

Doom Slayer - Bethesda's bad business practice with Fallout 76... and recently dispute with the composer
Ryu Hayabusa - Koei's crappy costume sales practice... paying dollar for switching hair, remember? Although they fixed it.
Crash - Activision... do I have to say more? I guess they got better recently... but barely

Sorry if I'm missing others... I am just bringing up characters from top of my head.

I fail to see how these compare to profiting off of genocide tbh

 

[ZelDan]

Regardless of if they get involved with the Summerfest or not, I do hope Nintendo will still have some stuff to show off beyond just FP6, whether it be a direct, mini-direct, or even just shadowdrop a bunch of trailers throughout the season.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Man, the Dorito Pope Cinematic Universe is looking good.

It is kinda interesting that Nintendo isn't here though. I guess Nintendo thought their directs have enough name recognition and general hype behind them that they don't need to be part of a bigger event?

Regardless, I'd still be pretty damn surprised if we didn't get something between May and August, even if its only a mini-direct.

They're still negotiating with the rights to be featured in the Cinematic Universe from Sony.

Wait, ****...

 

[SNEKeater]

It says 'Lineup phase 1' so maybe Nintendo will get involved later on in one of the next phases, who knows?... Geoff probably knows...

True, you have a point there.

Speaking of denying characters due to their parent companies...

Doom Slayer - Bethesda's bad business practice with Fallout 76... and recently dispute with the composer
Ryu Hayabusa - Koei's crappy costume sales practice... paying dollar for switching hair, remember? Although they fixed it.
Crash - Activision... do I have to say more? I guess they got better recently... but barely

Sorry if I'm missing others... I am just bringing up characters from top of my head.

Honestly, this feels a bit random.
All the companies have their bad things. Including Nintendo, of course. You could add Nintendo themselves there because, idk
- They barely discount their first party games in comparison to other publishers (Breath of the Wild still costs 50-60 bucks ffs)
- Their online services in general are essentially prehistoric, specially if compared to Microsoft's and Sony's
- In relation to the previous point, Switch features are almost non existent after 3 years
- Nintendo's exaggeratedly protective with their IPs, cancelling fan games and more

Then you have infamous stories from them during the 90s and how they treated 3rd parties back then, among other things. The difference between Nintendo and Activision/Koei/Bethesda in this case is that Smash Bros is a Nintendo game.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Unrelated to Nintendo, but

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Geoff has basically 'made' an extended E3 between May and August. Trailers, reveals, gameplays, and more. Nintendo isn't involved.

I get what youre saying, and I suppose its exciting in theory- but its across 1/3 of the year. I dont see exactly how its any different than any other part of the year- where we get announcements and trailers and play games slowly and steadily. It seems like a great marketing gimmick without anything that actually happens differently.

 

[Lionfranky]

I fail to see how these compare to profiting off of genocide tbh

Well... Crash should be also boycotted because Blizzard is under Activision, and Activision still influences decison making at Blizzard.

True, you have a point there.



Honestly, this feels a bit random.
All the companies have their bad things. Including Nintendo, of course. You could add Nintendo themselves there because, idk
- They barely discount their first party games in comparison to other publishers (Breath of the Wild still costs 50-60 bucks ffs)
- Their online services in general are essentially prehistoric, specially if compared to Microsoft's and Sony's
- In relation to the previous point, Switch features are almost non existent after 3 years
- Nintendo's exaggeratedly protective with their IPs, cancelling fan games and more

Then you have infamous stories from them during the 90s and how they treated 3rd parties back then, among other things. The difference between Nintendo and Activision/Koei/Bethesda in this case is that Smash Bros is a Nintendo game.

I think you can add Pokemon controversy of snapping of half of Pokemons. Lazy modeling all that from what I heard.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Speaking of denying characters due to their parent companies...

Doom Slayer - Bethesda's bad business practice with Fallout 76... and recently dispute with the composer
Ryu Hayabusa - Koei's crappy costume sales practice... paying dollar for switching hair, remember? Although they fixed it.
Crash - Activision... do I have to say more? I guess they got better recently... but barely

Sorry if I'm missing others... I am just bringing up characters from top of my head.

If we were in the habit of denying characters based on their parent company doing one bad thing, this would be the Smash roster:



Every company has done bad things in the name of profits. Yeah, some are worse and publicly support bad things, but that's getting into politics I don't want to talk about. But some are just cutting corners financially. If we're putting "has microtransactions" on the same level as "CEO spouts exclusionary politically charged rhetoric and actively supports censure and authoritarian regimes," we'd never get anything.

Unrelated to Nintendo, but

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Geoff has basically 'made' an extended E3 between May and August. Trailers, reveals, gameplays, and more. Nintendo isn't involved.

Wonder if this is going to be a more structured way to do reveals. Some companies are just dropping things - Beth didn't get much fanfare from ESO outside of their own stuff, and this is the Skyrim year, and Ubi just dropped that incredible Assassin's Creed trailer. Would be fun to get some central "X company is revealing lots of stuff on Y day"

...man I love the Viking aesthetic. We need some Nords in Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well... Crash should be also boycotted because Blizzard is under Activision, and Activision still influences decison making at Blizzard.


I think you can add Pokemon controversy of snapping of half of Pokemons. Lazy modeling all that from what I heard.

So boycott Nintendo too then, unlike Activision Blizzard, Nintendo is making money off of the genocide.


That's not only misunderstanding the controversy about Dexit but grossly misunderstands the context surrounding game development and Game Freak's unique situation where delays are impossible, meaning reusing assets is more valuable than with every other game that reuses assets

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The only two characters I've seen rejected based on their company are Sora because of Disney, and Quote because of Nicalis. I can understand the line of thought but like...I want Quote in the game.

I fail to see how these compare to profiting off of genocide tbh

I...I thought you were kidding...what?

That's not only misunderstanding the controversy about Dexit but grossly misunderstands the context surrounding game development and Game Freak's unique situation where delays are impossible, meaning reusing assets is more valuable than with every other game that reuses assets

This further context doesn't make things better. They shouldn't have forced development into such a tight schedule in the first place, or at the very least, not one that's so fast paced that you can barely squeak out the next game.

 

[Lionfranky]

So boycott Nintendo too then, unlike Activision Blizzard, Nintendo is making money off of the genocide.


That's not only misunderstanding the controversy about Dexit but grossly misunderstands the context surrounding game development and Game Freak's unique situation where delays are impossible, meaning reusing assets is more valuable than with every other game that reuses assets

Basically, when people start nitpicking past and background, they are bound to be hypocrites. It's also worth noting that globalization makes it nigh impossible to avoid Chinese influence in some form.

Well, I surfed the net to see how people reacted, and that was impression I got.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The only two characters I've seen rejected based on their company are Sora because of Disney, and Quote because of Nicalis. I can understand the line of thought but like...I want Quote in the game.


I...I thought you were kidding...what?


This further context doesn't make things better. They shouldn't have forced development into such a tight schedule in the first place, or at the very least, not one that's so fast paced that you can barely squeak out the next game.

Nope. More details are here, including sources news articles https://www.resetera.com/threads/bb...-apple-google-microsoft-nintendo-sony.172923/


Ok but Game Freak didn't force the tight schedule, they were forced to commit to a tight schedule, why can't people learn who's actually to blame in this mess

Basically, when people start nitpicking past and background, they are bound to be hypocrites. It's also worth noting that globalization makes it nigh impossible to avoid Chinese influence in some form.

Well, I surfed the net to see how people reacted, and that was impression I got.

The drama involving Dexit has been handled ****ing horrendously both by people who are angry about it and people who don't mind, though the worst reactions are from the people who were upset about it, despite how I agree it was bull****

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I still find the reactions some folks have to certain topics as rather interesting.

Like, sure. Blizzard management (key word there) made the decision with Blitzchung. But then you’ve got the developers who clearly did not agree with the decision (such as Jeff Kaplan, big wig of Overwatch). Yet, folks just say, “Yeah Blizzard SUCKS! Am I cool yet?”

Like, no it wasn’t a good thing and I disagree with the decision myself. But there’s so many broad strokes, and then that injustice is used to say, “HA THIS CHARACTER ISN’T HAPPENING”?

Kinda cringe Bros. Honestly, but that’s just my perspective. Tracer and Crash would both be dope in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of denying characters due to their parent companies...

Doom Slayer - Bethesda's bad business practice with Fallout 76... and recently dispute with the composer
Ryu Hayabusa - Koei's crappy costume sales practice... paying dollar for switching hair, remember? Although they fixed it.
Crash - Activision... do I have to say more? I guess they got better recently... but barely

Sorry if I'm missing others... I am just bringing up characters from top of my head.

Even though Koei-Tecmo bumps up DLC prices way too high and rightfully got a lot of flack from the community, I don't really see how that would really affect a Koei-Tecmo rep being in Smash at all when microtransactions are apparent in games like Street Fighter 5 and Metal Gear Survive.

You could probably even say selling defective products like nylon bags and lead-poisoning helmets wouldn't affect a Bethesda rep when Nintendo still hasn't done anything to their joycons to prevent drift.

Now if you wanna go even further, Nintendo is not very involved in the eSports scene, so why would they care about the everything that came out of the Blitzchung situation?

Bad publicity from a company really doesn't hold so much weight for why Nintendo and Sakurai wouldn't consider adding a 3rd Party character in Smash. It could probably change some people's views on if they want a specific character from a certain company, but overall, it doesn't really matter.

 

[Idon]

You people really think company reputation matters when at the time of Simon Belmont's release #****Konami was trending?

Characters are characters, and people will like them regardless of what they think of the companies that make them.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Even though Koei-Tecmo bumps up DLC prices way too high and rightfully got a lot of flack from the community, I don't really see how that would really affect a Koei-Tecmo rep being in Smash at all when microtransactions are apparent in games like Street Fighter 5 and Metal Gear Survive.

You could probably even say selling defective products like nylon bags and lead-poisoning helmets wouldn't affect a Bethesda rep when Nintendo still hasn't done anything to their joycons to prevent drift.

Now if you wanna go even further, Nintendo is not very involved in the eSports scene, so why would they care about the everything that came out of the Blitzchung situation?

Bad publicity from a company really doesn't hold so much weight for why Nintendo and Sakurai wouldn't consider adding a 3rd Party character in Smash. It could probably change some people's views on if they want a specific character from a certain company, but overall, it doesn't really matter.

Don’t Koei and Capcom hate each other’s guts tho? More so the former to the latter, idk where I read it but KT won’t come within 100 feet of a Capcom project, I forget why

and Capcom has like, three characters in Smash. KT has an Assist Trophy, Yuri Kozukata from Fatal Frame (they co-own the IP with Nintendo) and it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the only content they allowed (and the Fatal Frame spirits)

 

[osby]

Don’t Koei and Capcom hate each other’s guts tho? More so the former to the latter, idk where I read it but KT won’t come within 100 feet of a Capcom project, I forget why

and Capcom has like, three characters in Smash. KT has an Assist Trophy, Yuri Kozukata from Fatal Frame (they co-own the IP with Nintendo) and it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the only content they allowed (and the Fatal Frame spirits)

That makes no sense. Smash is made by Sora and Namco. It's published by Nintendo. Capcom isn't involved at all aside from lending their IPs. They aren't in the position of telling developers how much content they can include from other third parties.

Just because something you like doesn't have more stuff in Smash doesn't mean there's some big conspiracy holding the development team back.

 

[Deleted member]

Don’t Koei and Capcom hate each other’s guts tho? More so the former to the latter, idk where I read it but KT won’t come within 100 feet of a Capcom project, I forget why

Capcom filed a patent lawsuit against Koei-Tecmo over the Xtreme Legends games they usually did for Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors back in 2014 and won 5 years later:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...illion-in-patent-infringement-lawsuit/.150970

Pretty much the lesson here is patents can ****ing suck, and while we won't be seeing KT and Capcom collaborate at any point, I still wouldn't really rule out the possibility of getting a playable character in Smash when Fatal Frame got some content.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ok but Game Freak didn't force the tight schedule, they were forced to commit to a tight schedule, why can't people learn who's actually to blame in this mess

I know that it's The Pokémon Company is the major player in Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield being rushed games. However, I've also heard that Game Freak has a say in what The Pokémon Company does. If that's the case, I highly doubt that Game Freak isn't at least partially to blame.

The drama involving Dexit has been handled ****ing horrendously both by people who are angry about it and people who don't mind, though the worst reactions are from the people who were upset about it, despite how I agree it was bull****

Oh definitely. Death threats and the like are never ok, and the other side pulling a kneejerk 180 didn't help things either (not saying that they're morally equivalent though).

In the end, Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield aren't bad games. They're just obviously rushed and drowning in missed potential partially because of fans wanting different things from the series, partially because Game Freak tries to "innovate" by throwing in flavor of the month features which makes the games feel samey, and partially because Game Freak has a tendency to throw away actual quality of life features.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

For real though, Tracer would be super cool. Like, building up the Ult Meter by dodging attacks and shooting from afar, then going for the KO with the Pulse Bomb. Glass cannon but tons of mobility.

It's probably not all that likely, but BRO. GIMME.

 

[Deleted member]

That makes no sense. Smash is made by Sora and Namco. It's published by Nintendo. Capcom isn't involved at all aside from lending their IPs. They aren't in the position of telling developers how much content they can include from other third parties.

Could you imagine how much of a headache it'd be if Sakurai had to get responses from EVERY publisher already involved in Smash just to add 3rd Party Content? I'd get a concussion just even mentioning it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Glass cannon but tons of mobility.

You just described literally every glass cannon except Little Mac and Mr. Game & Watch. lol

But yeah, I can see the appeal.

 

[Garteam]

That's not only misunderstanding the controversy about Dexit but grossly misunderstands the context surrounding game development and Game Freak's unique situation where delays are impossible, meaning reusing assets is more valuable than with every other game that reuses assets

What made Dexit frustrating for me personally was less Game Freak's reusing of previous assets, but more them trying to sell those same assets back as new. Reusing assets isn't an issue in and of itself. It can often be a good means to get extra content into a game, but it really shouldn't be the focus of a new project. Instead, reused assets should serve as a base that lets the team focus on new content. Smash Ultimate is actually a great example of this. The game could not exist its current form without reusing content from Smash for Wii U, but the game's pre-release largely didn't focus on the reused content beyond the scope it brought to the game. Instead, new content and changes to the formula were discussed as the primary reason to purchase Smash Ultimate.

Sword/Shield, by comparison, not only had less content than the previous decade's worth of entries but straight up lied about reusing content to try and save face. It's fine if the older Pokemon don't have new models or animations, but trying to make that claim when it's plainly obvious that's not the case is nothing short of scummy. I understand corners had to be cut because the game couldn't be delayed, but no one had to make that particular statement.

Likewise, I don't think blaming the Pokemon Company entirely for Dexit is necessarily fair when Game Freak's upper management also made some questionable decisions. Why did they split their limited workforce four separate projects during Sword/Shield's development? Likewise, even if they have to develop all four games, why does Game Freak refuse to hire new staff to address the ever-increasing workload? I'm sure there's a ton of talented and hardworking devs at Game Freak, but it bothers me that they can't meet their full potential because of an upper management that does them absolutely no favours.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm not really that good with Glass Cannons, with the exception of Zelda. I'd love to be able to play Mewtwo better, but I just can't deal with them. At least I'm not as bad with them as I am with the speedsters - I usually SD before I realize that I'm offscreen.

My archetype is the big tanky characters. Strong and slow, so I can get into the fight and overpower them with heavy armor and a BFS. Also why I don't end up caring about tourneys - that's the best archetype for low tier trash.