Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cosmic77]

Since this is Zippo, I'll take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Whelp guess we won't know the ARMS rep and possibility FP7 until July now.

Another 10+ weeks it is!

not necessarily, I do feel like they could still at least reveal the ARMS rep in their own solely focused presentation ala Byleth, assuming production on them is still running pretty smoothly

FP7 and any other Nintendo announcement though? Yeah, I ain't holding my breath.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

not necessarily, I do feel like they could still at least reveal the ARMS rep in their own separate presentation ala Byleth

FP7 and any other Nintendo announcement though? Yeah, I ain't holding my breath.

I'm okay with that.

Plus we'd be getting another reveal the next month assuming no delay again and that way we don't run out of speculation to talk about after the ARMS rep reveal.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If by next week Nintendo comes out and state they won't be able to put a presentation together in time for June, I wonder what the plan for their would be E3 line up is gonna be? The only known first party games with dates are Xenoblade and Clubhouse Games and both of those are out by early June.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't E3 be the June direct? If so then it would mean that they will bow out.

Reeeely hope this is just an attention grab though. To my knowledge, Zippo's never leaked anything, so I'd say that's pretty likely though.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

My concern is that people could claim that a bunch of companies have a good working relationship with Nintendo, especially if it can be used to prop up a character that they want to see in Smash.

It's like that comment that Sakurai made about how it's more important for a character to be fun to play as over them being recognizable (or something along those lines - I don't remember the exact quote), where it's a concept that can be twisted to fit whoever someone supports.

I mean, people can claim whatever they want, but it doesn't make it less relevant. A better working relationship can always mean better potential for future collaborations. A good working relationship isn't a smoking gun that absolutely implies a character is coming, but it's another important piece of evidence to consider when looking at which characters have more favorable paths towards inclusion in Smash. I mean, we literally saw this play out with how Microsoft and Nintendo collaborating and working with one another resulted in Banjo & Kazooie just recently with Minecraft on Wii U being a key element that helped establish and then subsequently develop that relationship.

If Nintendo is loaning a third party Mario or Zelda to work on, we can safely conclude that there are some meaningful communication channels between companies that already exist and would more easily facilitate future decisions. Few third parties have these rather uniquely close relationships with Nintendo, so its why they get paid extra attention in regards to speculation. I mean, if Sony announced that Gravity Rush was coming to Switch tomorrow or something equally crazy, people would certainly start paying more attention to them too in terms of speculation because that's a major and interesting development between Nintendo and Sony.

The better working relationship you have with Nintendo, the easier it would be to collaborate for Smash. Not that it means specific characters are absolutely coming from such companies, but I feel like that's a pretty neutral statement of fact at that point. Especially since Nintendo is choosing the characters involved.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Spoiler: Images

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/675397060731863085/705241486400159744/gfgdgdfgsd.JPG

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/675397060731863085/705241485251182672/fsdfsdfsfgd.JPG

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/675397060731863085/705241487436152872/fdsfsdfsdg.JPG

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/675397060731863085/705241482600382472/fdfsdgdfbdfb.JPG

Very likely related to those Jeff tweets.

Zippo is hit or miss. Mostly miss, actually. But all things considered I wouldn’t be surprised by it just horribly disappointed. But I understand.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Spoiler: In regards to the Mother stuff

When there’s more official Mother news:

When the lack of English announcements makes it feel as if they’re gonna ignore Western fans and we’ll get nothing:

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Zippo at least has a record of correct stuff. But who knows. We know Sakurai's work is going well, but Nintendo is not Sakurai either. We don't know if they're having issues.

 

[I.D.]

Can I mention how amazing it is that this guy Zippo, whom nobody had heard about until a few weeks ago, suddenly became an "insider" due to resetera "verifying" him or some **** despite having no track record, got Byleth completely wrong, people kept believing him anyway, now gets another thing wrong, putting his score at 0/2, and we are probably still going to talk about him in the future?

From yours truly, back in February.

 

[N3ON]

Zippo doesn't bother me so much as the fact that by resetera's own standards he should be banned by now, and whenever someone brings up his poor track record and dubious reliability he flips out as if someone is libelling him instead of raising counterpoints based on precedent.

Though that doesn't mean he's inherently uninformed.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I know Sabi isn't really reliable, but they are teasing that we might be getting at least articles from major news outlets reporting on Nintendo not having a June direct.

 

[Ben Holt]

I know Sabi isn't really reliable, but they are teasing that we might be getting at least articles from major news outlets reporting on Nintendo not having a June direct.

I know E3 is cancelled, but E3 time is a sacred gamer holiday.
Nintendo already said that Spring Man's gonna be revealed and released in June, and that's the perfect time to announce FP7.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I know E3 is cancelled, but E3 time is a sacred gamer holiday.
Nintendo already said that Spring Man's gonna be revealed and released in June, and that's the perfect time to announce FP7.

The ARMS fighter and FP7 can easily be done in a Sakurai presentation, which requires a lot less work then a Nintendo Direct does, which needs trailers for at least a dozen or so games from both third and first party and that is not mentioning all of the editing and production work require to all together which probably takes a few good weeks inside an actual studio to put together.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Zippo doesn't bother me so much as the fact that by resetera's own standards he should be banned by now, and whenever someone brings up his poor track record and dubious reliability he flips out as if someone is libelling him instead of raising counterpoints based on precedent.

Though that doesn't mean he's inherently uninformed.

Are we sure this isn't just Sabi on an alt account?

 

[SKX31]

Well it ain’t June so...

Vergeben or his source also usually takes their time checking in on stuff

Edit: also also he probably won’t get anything back anyways since the developers are quarantined and outside talk is more limited than ever before.

Also, if working from home actually prevents leaks from happening, I'll be thrilled about it. I'd rather be completely surprised (or completely disappointed lol) than to go into this pack with full list of leaks.

I should point out an important factor here: some countries (China, Korea etc.) have returned to work. This is relevant in the case of Tencent (Nintendo's partner in China): A couple of their employees leaked Nintendo-related stuff last year (relating to the Chinese Switch and its specs). Those leaks weren't 100 % iron-clad, but pretty accurate to boot. Tencent's corporate web is also vast (includes not just Riot, but also Ubisoft, A-B and Epic through minority shares as well as SNK and Platinum indirectly.): meaning that a leak coming from that direction could theoretically hint at any of the first four.

It follows that if any work-related leaks happen within the coming month or two, it's likelier to come from that direction. It's not certain that leaks will even come from that direction or at all though.

I remain sceptical of the LoL leak (as with pretty much all leaks) since it relies on things going its way by June.

The ARMS fighter and FP7 can easily be done in a Sakurai presentation, which requires a lot less work then a Nintendo Direct does, which needs trailers for at least a dozen or so games from both third and first party and that is not mentioning all of the editing and production work require to all together which probably takes a few good weeks inside an actual studio to put together.

OTOH, it wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo had the groundwork for an E3 presentation or something like that planned before the cancellations and shutdowns. They probably negotiated for the trailers already, so letting the finished ones go to waste seems rather counter-productive.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The ARMS fighter and FP7 can easily be done in a Sakurai presentation, which requires a lot less work then a Nintendo Direct does, which needs trailers for at least a dozen or so games from both third and first party and that is not mentioning all of the editing and production work require to all together which probably takes a few good weeks inside an actual studio to put together.

The ARMS fighter maybe but not too sure with FP7 at this point given everything said...

 

[Trevenant]

The ARMS fighter maybe but not too sure with FP7 at this point given everything said...

It isn't a question of maybe, if we get a Sakurai presentation, the ARMS character will be getting revealed there unless Sakurai turns into a streamer which is beside the point and neither here nor there tbf

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Zippo doesn't bother me so much as the fact that by resetera's own standards he should be banned by now, and whenever someone brings up his poor track record and dubious reliability he flips out as if someone is libelling him instead of raising counterpoints based on precedent.

Though that doesn't mean he's inherently uninformed.

not sure this joke makes sense because I just woke up but resetera is the type of place that would verify a can of dog food if they thought it was a legit leak for a game

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So Sabi just posted.

https://twitter.com/SabiWabii/status/1255673588536901634

 

[Deleted member]

I know Sabi isn't really reliable, but they are teasing that we might be getting at least articles from major news outlets reporting on Nintendo not having a June direct.

Sabi's copying other popular leaks? Are they also posting it in a vaguely worded way so they can claim they were right if the June direct does happen?

 

[BZocky]

So Sabi just posted.

https://twitter.com/SabiWabii/status/1255673588536901634

That's really sad news. Sabi is beyond desperate for attention again.

 

[Trevenant]

So Sabi just posted.

https://twitter.com/SabiWabii/status/1255673588536901634

Ironically enough it is quite vaguely worded and it also straight after someone who has a bit of validity said it. Who else but Sabi?

 

[SpectreJordan]

Master Chief could work very well since he’s the Xbox’s mascot. I’d just hope he’d have a similar amount of Content to Terry since Halo easily has enough music/characters & deserves that focus. But he could bring over content from Gears of War, Fable, Forza, Crackdown & some of the Rare content that Banjo should’ve had like Perfect Dark, Killer Instinct, Battletoads & Conker.

Doom Slayer would be a good choice too. He could represent iD Software’s legendary library with Commander Keen, Wolfenstein & Quake.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What do you guys think of this being Crash's Classic Mode?

First Round:; Stage: Pac-Land
Second Round:; Stage: Shadow Moses Island
Third Round:; Stage: Wily's Castle
Fourth Round:; Stage: Midgar
Fifth Round:; Stage: Green Hill Zone
Sixth Round:; Stage: Mushroom Kingdom
Bonus Round
Final Round: Master Hand & Crazy Hand

The idea here is revolving around mascots given Crash's rivalry with Mario and Sonic notably in the 90's.

 

[osby]

Master Chief could work very well since he’s the Xbox’s mascot. I’d just hope he’d have a similar amount of Content to Terry since Halo easily has enough music/characters & deserves that focus. But he could bring over content from Gears of War, Fable, Forza, Crackdown & some of the Rare content that Banjo should’ve had like Perfect Dark, Killer Instinct, Battletoads & Conker.

Doom Slayer would be a good choice too. He could represent iD Software’s legendary library with Commander Keen, Wolfenstein & Quake.

I think the content Terry brought was something of an exception as he does star in his own company crossover franchise along with Fatal Fury. It's a pretty unique situation and it seems unlikely that any other character will randomly bring meaningful content from other franchises owned by the same company unless we get another PAC-MAN like characters who naturally references different series.

What do you guys think of this being Crash's Classic Mode?

First Round:; Stage: Pac-Land
Second Round:; Stage: Shadow Moses Island
Third Round:; Stage: Wily's Castle
Fourth Round:; Stage: Midgar
Fifth Round:; Stage: Green Hill Zone
Sixth Round:; Stage: Mushroom Kingdom
Bonus Round
Final Round: Master Hand & Crazy Hand

The idea here is revolving around mascots given Crash's rivalry with Mario and Sonic notably in the 90's.

If the theme is Mario and Sonic, what's the purpose of other characters?

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

So Sabi just posted.

https://twitter.com/SabiWabii/status/1255673588536901634

Thx Sabi, very helpful as usual...

(i don't know who made this gif but it's pretty handy, it can basically apply for every single time Sabi is posting something).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

What do you guys think of this being Crash's Classic Mode?

First Round:; Stage: Pac-Land
Second Round:; Stage: Shadow Moses Island
Third Round:; Stage: Wily's Castle
Fourth Round:; Stage: Midgar
Fifth Round:; Stage: Green Hill Zone
Sixth Round:; Stage: Mushroom Kingdom
Bonus Round
Final Round: Master Hand & Crazy Hand

The idea here is revolving around mascots given Crash's rivalry with Mario and Sonic notably in the 90's.

I think we could do better than that. How about a classic route that has Crash fighting against opponents that spin or roll? Maybe make a small reference to Crash Twinsanity where he fights two opponents who are good and evil like Crash and Cortex? Maybe Crash teams up with another bad guy?

First Round: /: Stage: Spear Pillar: Opponents use Neutral special more often: is an ally
Second Round: /: Stage: Brinstar Depths: Opponents use Down and Up specials more often: is an ally
Third Round: /: Stage: Halberd: Kirby uses Neutral aerial more often and King Dedede use his Down Special more often. is an ally
Fourth Round: /: Stage: Gaur Plains: Shulk uses Neutral Aerial often while ROB uses Side Special more often. is an ally
Fifth Round: (white)/ : Summit: Donkey Kong uses Up Special more often while Ice Climbers use Side Specials more often: is an ally
Sixth Round: /: Insanity Beach: Mario uses down aerial more often while Sonic uses Down special and Side Special more often: is an ally
Final Round: Master Hand & Crazy Hand

 

[StarBot]

From yours truly, back in February.

Technically he didn't get Byleth wrong, it's just for some ****ing reason, he did not know Byleth was from Fire Emblem / Fire Emblem was a 1st Party Nintendo IP

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So I guess it’s confirmed now

Report: No Nintendo Direct planned for June due to work-from-home hurdles https://t.co/B2evGzSmIf

"Nintendo is telling partner developers it’s not going to hold one of its Nintendo Direct video events in June."

— Wario64 (@Wario64) April 30, 2020

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So I guess it’s confirmed now

So July or August then are our next bets?

I also wonder if we'll still get an Smash representation of the ARMS rep. Doubtful on FP7 tho.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Even if there's no direct in June, we could maybe see a Arms presentation with release in June. Sakurai literally said yesterday that the development was going well. Maybe they could release Arms in June and announce fp7 later.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well I suppose if Sakurai is still planning to reveal the ARMS fighter on June then he'll probably do like what he did with Byleth's showcase.
Don't know if he would include the reveal for fighter 7 hough...

 

[YeppersPeppers]

So I guess it’s confirmed now

Report: No Nintendo Direct planned for June due to work-from-home hurdles https://t.co/B2evGzSmIf

"Nintendo is telling partner developers it’s not going to hold one of its Nintendo Direct video events in June."

— Wario64 (@Wario64) April 30, 2020

Silly GIF aside, while the lack of a big June direct is disappointing, I'm hopeful we'll still get some small announcements on social media and YouTube. I could easily see Nintendo tweeting "Check our YouTube page tomorrow for the reveal trailer of the mysterious ARMS fighter!" and whatnot for other announcements.

 

[I.D.]

Technically he didn't get Byleth wrong, it's just for some ****ing reason, he did not know Byleth was from Fire Emblem / Fire Emblem was a 1st Party Nintendo IP

Uh huh. I guess the other seven Fire Emblem characters already in Smash didn't tip him off. Honest mistake.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Uh huh. I guess the other seven Fire Emblem characters already in Smash didn't tip him off. Honest mistake.

Because people know whether it's 1st or 2nd party entirely?

That's not something that inherently tips people off. Combined with 2nd party being extremely confusing as hell, they might've just thought it was 2nd party, and not 1st party.

Reality is people don't know those little details very well. And they did know of a Fire Emblem character to begin with, they just thought it was 2nd party, not 1st party.

This isn't some oddity. This makes a ton of logical sense since copyrights can be very confusing. People have mistaken Bayonetta for 2nd party because Nintendo is supporting the series. So no, I'm not buying your point since it assumes everybody knows everything. It's just a leaker who admitted they didn't do good research. Zippo wasn't actually wrong, because that's not how sources work. Let's remember that sources can be confusing, no matter what information they have. Them having information isn't the same as them knowing how to present the information perfectly. One of Verge's sources didn't even know if Isabelle was an echo or clone. Didn't mean the information was wrong, just wasn't sure on every details.

Now the real question is what Zippo actually got wrong via his sources, not a simple misunderstanding of who owns the IP specifically. Also, see what I said about how 2nd and 1st party is confusing. Sometimes I can't even remember the actual difference at this point. It's so arbitrary it hurts. 3rd party is at least clear for a series. A 3rd party developer can still develop a 1st party IP too, as well. Gets confusing, doesn't it? About how it all works? Exactly. Them being confused is... actually really damn normal these days.

 

[Garteam]

That news is certainly disappointing, but not unexpected. It's better Nintendo takes their time and keeps everyone safe instead of endangering people with crunch time. Plus, the Venturebeat article seems to imply the direct was delayed rather than being outright cancelled. No doubt it sucks, but life will go on.

I think Nintendo is changing their 2020 business strategy in response to the times though. With Splatoon 2 and ARMS rising from the grave and the continued support for Animal Crossing, it seems like Nintendo's focusing more on keeping older games relevant over putting out major releases. That sort of makes sense, Splatfests, Party Crashes, and new Animal Crossing events are (relatively) easy additions that help supplement delays from unforeseen complications. I also think that Xenoblade is probably the last big first party game we see for awhile, with one or two big new titles coming at the tail end of the year (with one probably being the HD Mario Collection).

Regarding Smash, I still think we'll get the ARMS character sometime in June. Sakurai's column really made it seem like the Smash team's got work-from-home development under their thumbs with little difficulty, so I don't see any major delays in the future. There's nothing stopping them from pulling a Byleth and just going "Oh yeah, Sakurai's gonna stream the reveal for Fighter #6 tomorrow at this time". I'd then imagine that Fighter #7 and possibly Fighter #8 could be shown whenever the would-be June direct goes up.

 

[Cosmic77]

Because people know whether it's 1st or 2nd party entirely?

That's not something that inherently tips people off. Combined with 2nd party being extremely confusing as hell, they might've just thought it was 2nd party, and not 1st party.

Reality is people don't know those little details very well. And they did know of a Fire Emblem character to begin with, they just thought it was 2nd party, not 1st party.

This isn't some oddity. This makes a ton of logical sense since copyrights can be very confusing. People have mistaken Bayonetta for 2nd party because Nintendo is supporting the series. So no, I'm not buying your point since it assumes everybody knows everything. It's just a leaker who admitted they didn't do good research. Zippo wasn't actually wrong, because that's not how sources work. Let's remember that sources can be confusing, no matter what information they have. Them having information isn't the same as them knowing how to present the information perfectly. One of Verge's sources didn't even know if Isabelle was an echo or clone. Didn't mean the information was wrong, just wasn't sure on every details.

Now the real question is what Zippo actually got wrong via his sources, not a simple misunderstanding of who owns the IP specifically. Also, see what I said about how 2nd and 1st party is confusing. Sometimes I can't even remember the actual difference at this point. It's so arbitrary it hurts. 3rd party is at least clear for a series. A 3rd party developer can still develop a 1st party IP too, as well. Gets confusing, doesn't it? About how it all works? Exactly. Them being confused is... actually really damn normal these days.

Still, I do sort of agree that it doesn't instill much confidence if the Nintendo franchise that people have been complaining about for having too many reps gets another character and Zippo believes that F5 is closely associated with Nintendo but not first-party.

If this was a new franchise I might be more understanding, but FE has been in Smash since Melee. Not knowing it's first-party after four Smash games is pretty bad if you want to be involved with Smash leaks.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Even if there's no direct in June, we could maybe see a Arms presentation with release in June.

The video is just raw, unedited footage of Sakurai at his house sitting on his couch and playing the character. The Mii Costume segment is just him going though the Mii Fighter menu.

 

[Garteam]

The video is just raw, unedited footage of Sakurai at his house sitting on his couch and playing the character. The Mii Costume segment is just him going though the Mii Fighter menu.

The gameplay is recorded using a 2008 video camera facing the screen, while Sakurai uses the built-in mic from a Brawl development laptop for audio.

 

[I.D.]

Because people know whether it's 1st or 2nd party entirely?

That's not something that inherently tips people off. Combined with 2nd party being extremely confusing as hell, they might've just thought it was 2nd party, and not 1st party.

Reality is people don't know those little details very well. And they did know of a Fire Emblem character to begin with, they just thought it was 2nd party, not 1st party.

This isn't some oddity. This makes a ton of logical sense since copyrights can be very confusing. People have mistaken Bayonetta for 2nd party because Nintendo is supporting the series. So no, I'm not buying your point since it assumes everybody knows everything. It's just a leaker who admitted they didn't do good research. Zippo wasn't actually wrong, because that's not how sources work. Let's remember that sources can be confusing, no matter what information they have. Them having information isn't the same as them knowing how to present the information perfectly. One of Verge's sources didn't even know if Isabelle was an echo or clone. Didn't mean the information was wrong, just wasn't sure on every details.

Now the real question is what Zippo actually got wrong via his sources, not a simple misunderstanding of who owns the IP specifically. Also, see what I said about how 2nd and 1st party is confusing. Sometimes I can't even remember the actual difference at this point. It's so arbitrary it hurts. 3rd party is at least clear for a series. A 3rd party developer can still develop a 1st party IP too, as well. Gets confusing, doesn't it? About how it all works? Exactly. Them being confused is... actually really damn normal these days.

"Second party" isn't a real thing, at least as far as ownership is concerned. Fire Emblem and Byleth are owned by Nintendo; Intelligent Systems and Koei-Tecmo don't even factor in here. And the exact wording Mr. leaker used was "The character is not from Nintendo, but from a series related to Nintendo", so you can't even blame confusion due to Koei's involvement with 3 Houses.

It's funny that a few days ago you had people feverishly discussing that nobody should complain about not knowing characters because you can just google them, but a leaker, whose entire "job" is about getting things right, can get away with not doing a simple check on Wikipedia to confirm that Fire Emblem is, indeed, a Nintendo series.

Also at they knew it was a Fire Emblem character all along, they just didn't say it until after the fact. A true classic.