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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Dalek_Kolt

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Tbh the only major issue with Smash's voice acting is the treatment of Bowser and the DK Crew. Yeah, DKC gave Donkey Kong and Diddy realistic ape noises while Bowser's voice kinda matches Mario 64, but Kenny James and Takashi Nagasako give their a lot more character in their performance than royalty free monster and ape sounds respectively.
When Ridley was first announced, I was low-key hoping that all of the "savage kaiju" characteristics from Bowser and DK would be downplayed or transferred to him. Alas it wasn't meant to be.

It kind of made the Rare reunion hilarious tho.

Donkey Kong: Bestial gorilla noises
Diddy Kong: Screeching chimp noises
King K. Rool: Guttural crocodile noises
Banjo-Kazooie: Guh-huh!
 

Dragoncharystary

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I think it would great if Nintendo and Sakurai completely through us for a loop and chose the one ARMS character that I have literally seen zero discussion on:

Edit: Also this is the closest we would ever get to having a Jojo character in smash.
 
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Just some thoughts about "fan rules"...

From what i understand it's a derogatory term used to diminish the value of a tendency or a conclusion based on a tendency. Speculation in general (not only Smash specualtion) is basically people predicting stuff by analyzing various tendencies/trends so i really don't think it's wise to just discard all of them on the basis of "some tendencies have been broken in the past therefore, all tendencies are insignificant".

Some tendencies will never be broken but on the other hand, even a long lasting trend can come to an end pretty much at any time.

I think that one of the best thing we can get from trends is an understanding of the reason(s) behind them. A tendency alone isn't an argument (or a "rule") but the reason(s) why it's there can help predict if it'll stop or continue in the future.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Just some thoughts about "fan rules"...

From what i understand it's a derogatory term used to diminish the value of a tendency or a conclusion based on a tendency. Speculation in general (not only Smash specualtion) is basically people predicting stuff by analyzing various tendencies/trends so i really don't think it's wise to just discard all of them on the basis of "some tendencies have been broken in the past therefore, all tendencies are insignificant".

Some tendencies will never be broken but on the other hand, even a long lasting trend can come to an end pretty much at any time.

I think that one of the best thing we can get from trends is an understanding of the reason(s) behind them. A tendency alone isn't an argument (or a "rule") but the reason(s) why it's there can help predict if it'll stop or continue in the future.
This post...I like it.
 

Dalek_Kolt

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I'm personally pretty lax on fan rules. The only one that I go out of my way to reinforce is the one that explicitly forbids non-video game characters from appearing in Smash.
The only exception I'm willing to budge on are Nintendo-made toy peripherals and Sora, since he's in so hotly debated that putting him in would shift discussion to more worthy endeavors. Just focus on the Final Fantasy OCs and carefully excise the Disney references. to the point that people can't seriously debate the possibility of Mickey Mouse in Smash.
 

SKX31

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Belmont is a french name, so the family probably comes from France, but Wallachia (where the games take place) spoke some sort of Slavic language I think.
Both Transylvania and Wallachia are part of Romania nowadays and most of its people spoke - and speak - Romanian (with a German minority - Transylvanian Saxons - as well as a Hungarian minority in Transylvania present in the region during most of the Castlevania timespan. Up to the 1800s / 1900s.). And well, info about the real Vlad Tepes actions reached as far as the then-German, now-French city of Strasbourg pretty quickly.

The real Vlad's life as Prince of Wallachia is a long Game of Thrones-y tale, and a complicated one: many Romanians saw him as a hero due to him opposing the local nobles and him striving to end the general instability plagueing Wallachia. However, many of his opponents (which included Transylvanian Saxon merchants, envoys from his lord the Turkish Sultan and many nobles) faced torture and impalement:

The most influential in establishing his notoriety throughout Europe, were the German sources, dating from as early as 1463 (while Vlad was still alive). The most popular were several pamphlets that began to appear late in the fifteenth century and which were widely circulated because of the recent invention of the printing press. Indeed, some of the earliest secular texts to roll off the presses were horror stories about Vlad Dracula. Written in German and published at major centres such as Nuremburg, Bamberg, and Strassburg, these had such unsavory titles as The Frightening and Truly Extraordinary Story of a Wicked Blood-drinking Tyrant Called Prince Dracula. Researchers have discovered at least thirteen of these pamphlets dating from 1488 to 1521. The printers of the Dracula tales also included woodcut portraits of the prince and, in some cases, illustrations of his atrocities.
Wallachia and Transylvania were very much frontier regions - with a lot of battles and power struggles, since Wallachia was a Turkish vassal for 400 years and Transylvania a Hungarian (later Austrian / Austria-Hungarian) territory during that time. The Russian Empire got involved too later on (1700s), and when both the Ottoman and Austrian empires suffered major setbacks in the 1800s the two regions wound up helping to form Romania.

So Castlevania isn't, um, that unrealistic... I guess? Then again, if Rondo of Blood and SotN would've been more realistic those two games would've included guillotines and mentioned a certain general named Napoleon (since every single monarchy was trying to fight those pesky revolutionaries in France and try to reinstate the Ancien Regime - EDIT: Rondo of Blood takes place in 1792, SotN in 1796. Right in that timeframe.)...

When Ridley was first announced, I was low-key hoping that all of the "savage kaiju" characteristics from Bowser and DK would be downplayed or transferred to him. Alas it wasn't meant to be.

It kind of made the Rare reunion hilarious tho.

Donkey Kong: Bestial gorilla noises
Diddy Kong: Screeching chimp noises
King K. Rool: Guttural crocodile noises
Banjo-Kazooie: Guh-huh!
I'm of two minds about that. Yes, that reunion was hilarious. OTOH I'd kinda prefer DK yelling out what he usually does (How do you even write down those sounds?) since they'd be a hilarious contrast to "Guh-huh!" too.
 
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KillerCage

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I think it would great if Nintendo and Sakurai completely through us for a loop and chose the one ARMS character that I have literally seen zero discussion on:

Edit: Also this is the closest we would ever get to having a Jojo character in smash.
There is a good reason nobody mentions Misango: he is the most forgettable character in ARMS' roster.
Byte & Braq are more memorable characters than him and they were part of the base roster.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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There is a good reason nobody mentions Misango: he is the most forgettable character in ARMS' roster.
Byte & Braq are more memorable characters than him and they were part of the base roster.
Dang. And this is even with Springtron on the roster.

To be fair though, Byte & Barq are a robo cop and K-9 unit. It's pretty hard to make that forgettable.
 

GoodGrief741

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In ARMS, the crowd dresses up as the combatants, and waves around their paraphernalia. Do you think they'll do this in Super Smash Bros.? On the one hand, it'd be quite a bit of work to do this for all 80+ characters, but on the other hand, little details like this are what Super Smash Bros. is made of.
Oh man this would be so cool! I don't know if they'd do it, but if they did it would make the ARMS stage one of the best to play just for this.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Just some thoughts about "fan rules"...

From what i understand it's a derogatory term used to diminish the value of a tendency or a conclusion based on a tendency. Speculation in general (not only Smash specualtion) is basically people predicting stuff by analyzing various tendencies/trends so i really don't think it's wise to just discard all of them on the basis of "some tendencies have been broken in the past therefore, all tendencies are insignificant".

Some tendencies will never be broken but on the other hand, even a long lasting trend can come to an end pretty much at any time.

I think that one of the best thing we can get from trends is an understanding of the reason(s) behind them. A tendency alone isn't an argument (or a "rule") but the reason(s) why it's there can help predict if it'll stop or continue in the future.
This is a great point. Fan rules can be taken too far when people believe they're concrete and/or let confirmation bias affect their judgement on points that are brought up, but speculation is to some degree built on the idea of having some sort of base aspects to work off of, even they're just ideas and not cold facts. Otherwise its just random guesswork, the Smash predictive equivalent of guessing the lotto numbers.
 

CaptainAmerica

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In ARMS, the crowd dresses up as the combatants, and waves around their paraphernalia. Do you think they'll do this in Super Smash Bros.? On the one hand, it'd be quite a bit of work to do this for all 80+ characters, but on the other hand, little details like this are what Super Smash Bros. is made of.
Might be feasible to have a bunch of low-res crowd-looking things in the background with blank t-shirts that they could set to take a certain color and the stock icon/series logo depending on who's fighting...
 

toonito

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Just some thoughts about "fan rules"...

From what i understand it's a derogatory term used to diminish the value of a tendency or a conclusion based on a tendency. Speculation in general (not only Smash specualtion) is basically people predicting stuff by analyzing various tendencies/trends so i really don't think it's wise to just discard all of them on the basis of "some tendencies have been broken in the past therefore, all tendencies are insignificant".

Some tendencies will never be broken but on the other hand, even a long lasting trend can come to an end pretty much at any time.

I think that one of the best thing we can get from trends is an understanding of the reason(s) behind them. A tendency alone isn't an argument (or a "rule") but the reason(s) why it's there can help predict if it'll stop or continue in the future.
i agree

i get why people push back on fan rules if they're treated as fact but fan rules typically guide speculation based on trends and news about Smash and when used in this manner they're harmless.

its not like fan rules are overly restrictive on our speculation and wishlists since we have support threads for all types of characters from Sgt. Cortez to Dante to Carmen Sandiego to Ray MK II.

i understand sakurai can be unpredictable but the Smash franchise is 5 games deep and 20 years old some things can be gleaned from it. It can become more rewarding when our "rules" are thrown to the wayside with an unexpected character.

The recent ARMS speculation has excited the community because at least one of our rules may be broken.

Spring Man knocks down two: No AT becomes a character within the same game, spirits cannot become playable
Min Min, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Twintelle knock down two: spirits cannot become playable and protagonist/mascot is 1st for a new franchise
Every other ARMS character knocks down the protagonist 1st rule.

for me the only "fan rules" i have currently are:
Character should debut from a video game (or a peripheral)
OG 12 are likeliest to be safe from cuts (not 100% as Jigglypuff IIRC was almost cut during Brawl)
New Smash Game = at least 1 new pokemon (true in every game so far)
New Smash Game = at least 1 new FE character (true since Melee)
 
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Mamboo07

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i agree

i get why people push back on fan rules if they're treated as fact but fan rules typically guide speculation based on trends and news about Smash and when used in this manner they're harmless.

i understand sakurai can be unpredictable but the Smash franchise is 5 games deep and 20 years old some things can be gleaned from it. It can become more rewarding when our "rules" are thrown to the wayside with an unexpected character.

The recent ARMS speculation has excited the community because at least one of our rules may be broken.

Spring Man knocks down two: No AT becomes a character within the same game, spirits cannot become playable
Min Min, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Twintelle knock down two: spirits cannot become playable and protagonist/mascot is 1st for a new franchise
Every other ARMS character knocks down the protagonist 1st rule.

for me the only "fan rules" i have currently are:
OG 12 are likeliest to be safe from cuts (not 100% as Jigglypuff IIRC was almost cut during Brawl)
New Smash Game = at least 1 new pokemon (true in every game so far)
New Smash Game = at least 1 new FE character (true since Melee)
One of the rules I would put in is this:
"New Smash Game = Kirby and Zelda must never get new reps after Brawl"
 

I.D.

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People are hostile to so-called fanrules because let's be honest, they are often used to instantly shut down conversation about certain characters.
 

pupNapoleon

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Zoroark doesn't quite fit Lucario's proportions, and even if it did I don't think Lucario's fighting style would really do the Pokémon justice. You also wouldn't be able to use its Illusion ability to any effect.

Since you wouldn't be able to trick opponents with Illusion in a 1v1, I think Zoroark would be best as a part of some sort of Pokémon Trainer style character. That way it can masquerade as one of its teammates whenever you switch to it, forcing them to guess whether you switched to Zoroark, or the other Pokémon in the party.


The idea of the tag team thing was just to recontextualize the stance switch into something that could be deemed acceptable. Though, I don't think it would be all that weird for the character if the idea was explored beyond that. It's about a shoehorned as the stance switch itself since both are logical, but neither are things that the Pokémon can actually do. I think either would work as an extension of Urshifu's shtick.
As for the trick- if they made Zoroark work as an echo or clone, I think that they could easily add a technique where they enter the scene as another character entering, and move like that character until they either first attack or are first attacked.

As for a the stance change- well I said my bit. I dont think it makes sense for the character. If you want a tagteam, find a character where an actual tagteam makes sense. It's the same reason you don't want a stance change for the Pokemon, because it doesnt fit it.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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People are hostile to so-called fanrules because let's be honest, they are often used to instantly shut down conversation about certain characters.
And that's why they're silly to bring up. There's a difference between explaining why you doubt something and "lol not happening".

...it doesn't help that some fan rules are sometimes based upon things that don't exist. Or at least the arguments for them are based upon a fictional conclusion. That's not to say that basing it on precedence is bad. That's honestly very reasonable and makes a lot of sense. Why would you easily believe something that never happen will happen again? Of course, the idea it can happen despite precedent is just as fine.

Open minds don't exist enough. Sometimes what you want most is not that likely. And sometimes you can be vastly surprised. Joker fans can outright explain that one, as they didn't think he had a chance. But there you go.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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As for the trick- if they made Zoroark work as an echo or clone, I think that they could easily add a technique where they enter the scene as another character entering, and move like that character until they either first attack or are first attacked.
Here's the problem though: Your opponent saw you pick Zoroark on the character select screen. They know who you're playing as.

Though while it would be a pretty useless mechanic (unless you get tripped up by "Kirby" having humungo hitboxes), it could still be decent for flavor.
 

MarioRaccoon

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Hey smash fans, I was wondering, what would you think if Sakurai’s team starts to make some spirit promotions but as assist trophies ?? Characters like Rayman, Shantae, Geno, Dixie Kong and a few more.
 

Ben Holt

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Hey smash fans, I was wondering, what would you think if Sakurai’s team starts to make some spirit promotions but as assist trophies ?? Characters like Rayman, Shantae, Geno, Dixie Kong and a few more.
The more I think of it, the more convinced I am that Rayman will be a Deluxe Mii Brawler costume. His moveset from Origins and Legends is very similar to the Mii Brawler.
 

I.D.

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Hey smash fans, I was wondering, what would you think if Sakurai’s team starts to make some spirit promotions but as assist trophies ?? Characters like Rayman, Shantae, Geno, Dixie Kong and a few more.
Wynn disliked this post
 

Cosmic77

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I could type a full essay on why I think a certain character could get in Smash, providing thorough evidence and research on the topic, only for someone to respond with, "Cool, but it's still not gonna happen because of X".

I know it can work the other way around too, but it's really irritating when your entire argument gets shot down by one or two sentences. At least come up with some other reasons.

Here's the problem though: Your opponent saw you pick Zoroark on the character select screen. They know who you're playing as.

Though while it would be a pretty useless mechanic (unless you get tripped up by "Kirby" having humungo hitboxes), it could still be decent for flavor.
I think Zoroark's gimmick could come in handy if Sakurai focused more on the copy aspect rather than the disguise aspect.

Imagine taking Lucario's moveset at 124%, or turning into K. Rool right before you get hit with an attack that has high knockback.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Hey smash fans, I was wondering, what would you think if Sakurai’s team starts to make some spirit promotions but as assist trophies ?? Characters like Rayman, Shantae, Geno, Dixie Kong and a few more.
I don't think any of those character's fanbases would appreciate a 2nd reminder that their character isn't playable. It seems like too much effort to put into something that would do nothing but anger people.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Hey smash fans, I was wondering, what would you think if Sakurai’s team starts to make some spirit promotions but as assist trophies ?? Characters like Rayman, Shantae, Geno, Dixie Kong and a few more.
That could be interesting, if I'm being honest. This would also mean mods would become better since the models would be more usable.

Frankly, I'd love to see just more Mii costumes as is.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I think Zoroark's gimmick could come in handy if Sakurai focused more on the copy aspect rather than the disguise aspect.

Imagine taking Lucario's moveset at 124%, or turning into K. Rool right before you get hit with an attack that has high knockback.
That's not how Illusion works. It's one of the few illusion based abilities that can't do anything but alter perception. The mechanic sounds kind of interesting, but it's something I'd rather see in a Pokémon with Transform.
 

Dinoman96

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If anything, they should go back and make assist trophies for all the new DLC franchises (Persona, DQ, Banjo, Fatal Fury/SNK)
 

DarthEnderX

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Are there fan rules that fan come up with? Yes. Are they always based on something? No. However, the whole thing I posted earlier, the one about mascot/protag always being first? That’s a “rule” literally backed up by Smash as a series. It’s not based on trivial things that I think suit my favorite picks, it’s an observation that explains quite a bit.
It's still not an official rule unless someone official SAYS it's a rule. And unless a rule is official, it's...a fan rule. Which is not a rule at all. It's just a pattern.

That said, mascot/protag is a fairly clear pattern up to this point.

I saw the suggestion of fullscale voice acting and YES PLEASE so that Smash can FINALLY feel like a, you know, crossover. The best part of crossovers is seeing characters interact with each other
I mean, you don't even NEED VA for that.

You can tell a stort visual novel style, the way, say, Namco x Capcom games do.

I think if it ends up being spring man (which is what im personally am betting on), we can almost definitely expect a spring tron costume of some form.
I'm hoping that if Spring Man is in, the Springtron replaces the AT.

Terry is a bit of a special case. It's true that he's the main character of Fatal Fury but let's be honest... there hasn't been a Fatal Fury game in over 20 years. KoF has been the flagship fighter for SNK for the longest time, and Terry isn't a main character there.
The update was Smash x Fatal Fury, not Smash x King of Fighters. Terry is the main character of Fatal Fury. That's not a special case at all.

Hey smash fans, I was wondering, what would you think if Sakurai’s team starts to make some spirit promotions but as assist trophies ?? Characters like Rayman, Shantae, Geno, Dixie Kong and a few more.
Be cool I guess. But I'd rather they spent those resources making Echoes or something.

Or at least finished bringing back all the old ATs first.
 
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Cosmic77

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That's not how Illusion works. It's one of the few illusion based abilities that can't do anything but alter perception. The mechanic sounds kind of interesting, but it's something I'd rather see in a Pokémon with Transform.
I think that's something Sakurai would be willing to ignore if he thought it would make Zoroark more interesting. Even if it's not something Zoroark can naturally do it still fits well, kind of like how Ness and Lucas barely have any PSI moves that they could actually use in their games.
 
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7NATOR

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The more I think of it, the more convinced I am that Rayman will be a Deluxe Mii Brawler costume. His moveset from Origins and Legends is very similar to the Mii Brawler.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. I actually think a Rayman costume would go with the ARMS character because it's a nice contrast to the ARMS Character due to no limbs


Since to our Knowledge, there are only 5 slots left, I Figure ALOT of Popular characters are gonna be Spirited or Mii Costumed, because not every character can get in. even if they did Bonus fighter, it likely won't be that much and probably won't be from completely new franchises.

I Won't be surprised if Characters like Dante, Master Chief, Doomguy, Geno, Sora, Travis, Crash Bandicoot,etc become Spirit events or Mii Costumes
 

Megadoomer

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Hey smash fans, I was wondering, what would you think if Sakurai’s team starts to make some spirit promotions but as assist trophies ?? Characters like Rayman, Shantae, Geno, Dixie Kong and a few more.
That just seems like it would be a jerk move, or incredibly tone-deaf, on the developers' part. "Hey, we're promoting popular spirits like Rayman, Geno, and Dixie Kong! ...to assist trophies."

Thankfully, it's not likely going to happen, since none of the updates for any Smash game have included new assist trophies.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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There’s a dichotomy to the usage of the term “fan rule”.

In some cases, people come up with rules that by extension make certain characters unlikely. In some cases, there are rules made up that are not based in anything.

The downside? The term “fan rule” gets thrown around to that point that even sensible ideas or arguments get shut down simply because somebody doesn’t like that it makes their most wanted potential look “unlikely”. It’s not as though one side is “bad” and one is “good”. I don’t really even think there are “sides”.

I mean, I can only speak for myself. When I suggest ideas like I have today, it’s not even really to make my pick of choice (don’t really have an ARMS pick of choice) more likely than another. I base essentially all of my predictions on some sort of train of thought or line of thinking. It doesn’t necessarily mean I’m right about everything.

At the end of the day, we are going to be at a point where we realize not all of our most wanted will be in this game. It’s just a fact. Some people will be happy, others disappointed. This is just what speculation is. Some things will make potential chances go up for characters, some things will make potential chances go down. Doom Slayer is an example of this with the recent interview that evidently shot his chances down. It happens.

Not every idea is a slant toward your most wanted. Sometimes you gotta question why you get instantly defensive, and really, just remember...we’re all here because we like the game. I don’t actually think anybody is here to hurt feelings or something.

At least, I’m not.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I think that's something Sakurai would be willing to ignore if he thought it would make Zoroark more interesting. Even if it's not something Zoroark can naturally do it still fits well, kind of like how Ness and Lucas barely have any PSI moves that they could actually use in their games.
I'm sorry but if Urshifu's proposed stance change gimmick doesn't fit right, then neither does this with Zoroark. Transforming into other characters is Ditto's thing. Zoroark is about the deception and mind games. Is this really a Machamp or am I about to eat a Night Slash?
 

Cosmic77

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That just seems like it would be a jerk move, or incredibly tone-deaf, on the developers' part. "Hey, we're promoting popular spirits like Rayman, Geno, and Dixie Kong! ...to assist trophies."

Thankfully, it's not likely going to happen, since none of the updates for any Smash game have included new assist trophies.
I know a majority of people would only see it as a negative, but if we consider how things would be in the long-run, I'd be pretty grateful for it.

I'd prefer being disappointed but knowing one of my characters was further acknowledged over getting to F11 and realizing that my character didn't get squat.
 

KillerCage

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There’s a dichotomy to the usage of the term “fan rule”.

In some cases, people come up with rules that by extension make certain characters unlikely. In some cases, there are rules made up that are not based in anything.

The downside? The term “fan rule” gets thrown around to that point that even sensible ideas or arguments get shut down simply because somebody doesn’t like that it makes their most wanted potential look “unlikely”. It’s not as though one side is “bad” and one is “good”. I don’t really even think there are “sides”.

I mean, I can only speak for myself. When I suggest ideas like I have today, it’s not even really to make my pick of choice (don’t really have an ARMS pick of choice) more likely than another. I base essentially all of my predictions on some sort of train of thought or line of thinking. It doesn’t necessarily mean I’m right about everything.

At the end of the day, we are going to be at a point where we realize not all of our most wanted will be in this game. It’s just a fact. Some people will be happy, others disappointed. This is just what speculation is. Some things will make potential chances go up for characters, some things will make potential chances go down. Doom Slayer is an example of this with the recent interview that evidently shot his chances down. It happens.

Not every idea is a slant toward your most wanted. Sometimes you gotta question why you get instantly defensive, and really, just remember...we’re all here because we like the game. I don’t actually think anybody is here to hurt feelings or something.

At least, I’m not.
To paraphase the Pirates of the Caribbean:
"Smash fan-rules are more like guidelines."
 
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