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i never said he would or should cram everything into dante. they didnt even give bayo a second weapon. i listed all the things Sakurai has done to add depth to characters movesets. dante wont get everything but he should get his signature weapons and moves (even though joker already stole one)
as for smash needing simplier designs or they don't work, thats already objectively been proven false. terry, ryu, shulk, ken, bayo all have notably committed player bases that enjoy a deeper and more complex moveset.
It's cause you worded it poorly. You made it sound like he needs all of that.
Which obviously is way beyond any of the characters you listed. They're complex, but not that complex. At least to play generally. But I don't need to repeat the point about being "too complex to play casually" either. It's been said over and over again. That's what all were worried about. Obviously that's not what you meant. So apologies for the misundertanding.
as for smash needing simplier designs or they don't work, thats already objectively been proven false. terry, ryu, shulk, ken, bayo all have notably committed player bases that enjoy a deeper and more complex moveset.
And yet there is still a market for simpler characters too. Anecdotal, but I'll say you just listed off four characters I don't play because they're complex, and another who I haven't bought for the same reason. See also Joker's ultimate mode and Hero's 30 different dSpecials as well.
Smash has added some complex mechanically intense characters, but also some relatively simple ones. Rids and K.Rool have some minor gimmicks, but a lot of them are pretty basic mechanically. In a game this size, it's good to have options.
I have noticed that the DLC tends to trend more complex and gimmicky, so I'd like to see some more simplicity coming in. BK actually seems relatively straightforward, and I feel like I'd click with them the most.
Even after playing the ARMS trial, due to forgetting what happens when you dodge/dash with Spring Man I thought he was kinda generic compared to the other ARMS characters in terms of moves (especially with how people on here treated him and I wasn’t actually aware of what his abilities did exactly; I remember seeing some tip or something in ARMS mention something about him but due to my apparent obliviousness I ended up thinking/assuming it said Springtron since I remembered his aura thing disabling incoming arms).
However, I still liked him as a character, and his low-health mechanic + his parry aura-thing are actually pretty cool things to have; his arms are kinda cool too even if they’re simpler compared to the others. I don’t see why he gets hated on, though I understand liking the other characters more. I would like some of the other characters, too, but I still like Spring Man and as a bonus he kills the AT/Spirit arguments in one go (which would still be nice even if we only get 1 more AT/Spirit or even none since it would still kill the argument for future games).
Actually depending on how Spring Man’s parry and rage thing are implemented in combination with how his arms work in Smash, I think he could be pretty gosh dang cool on his own even moreso than the others (though they’re still cool too).
Don't get me wrong - The one character I was most excited about was . I loved the trainer since Brawl; I even liked the stamina and type effectiveness mechanics. I know I put at least one ballot vote to reassembling the avengers.
The one thing I think is missing is that the individual mons don't get callouts anymore. In Brawl, the announcer would call them out individually, and now they're always together. Honestly, I'd favor something where you could choose to play one the whole time if you wanted, and if you spent 80% of the match as Squirtle, then the announcer would give a "Squirtle Wins!" at the end. Also I miss seeing the stock icons on the results screen - in Brawl we saw which mon made or got KOd, but now it's always the trainer's face.
At one point, I did have an idea for the hypothetical next game in which the Pokémon Trainer was a custom character. You could pick your favorite trainer, and their team from all of the Pokémon on the roster. That way you could play as any Pokémon individually, or slightly more specialized versions of any of them together. You could also add Pokémon as Echo Fighters like Blaziken for Captain Falcon and Gardevoir for Zelda (though I'm not entirely certain the current version of Zelda fits Gardevoir that well) in order to give players more choices.
This was immediately dismissed as a balancing nightmare but...I don't really see it. I think the more likely issue would be that certain Pokémon wouldn't be all that synergous with the others.
I have noticed that the DLC tends to trend more complex and gimmicky, so I'd like to see some more simplicity coming in. BK actually seems relatively straightforward, and I feel like I'd click with them the most.
Banjo & Kazooie and Byleth are the easiest characters in the Fighters Pass. The former is mostly straightforward with a limited uses ability, and a bit of item play, and the latter is pretty much just a different flavor sword character archetype.
Well if we have to pick one I'd say do Brawl's Adventure Mode. Don't hold anything back in the level design department for the Little Macs and the Ganondorfs of the game, just add more platforms in free play mode depending on who's active. Also, outsource it this time to save resources.
Pikachu is however a main character in it, and more of a supporting character for Red.
He is however co-protagonists with Ash in the anime overall, since it stars both their adventures. And Ash's obviously the more important one.
In addition to that, the first game game where PIkachu was an actual protagonist specifically is Hey You! Pikachu. And that still had controls akin to regular Pokemon Training, as you told Pikachu what to do.
He's not really ever had a standalone role outside of an episode or two in the anime. And technically some mini-movies that were made after Smash existed.
So what you did was help prove my point that he is a protagonist with Hey You, Pikachu! because that came out in Japan a month before Super Smash Bros came out in Japan.
Anyway I think Pikachu can be considered the protagonist of Pokemon Yellow since he is the first and only Pokemon you can pick from Professor Oak's lab, there are minigames that you can only do with Pikachu, he is the only Pokemon that can follow you around and he is prominently shown off during the intro.
Well if we have to pick one I'd say do Brawl's Adventure Mode. Don't hold anything back in the level design department for the Little Macs and the Ganondorfs of the game, just add more platforms in free play mode depending on who's active. Also, outsource it this time to save resources.
It was pretty cool seeing how the intro to World of Light had full voice-acting. It got pretty much everyone hyped about the Story mode.
And then it turned out that it sucked.
I think Subspace's silent protagonist motif was pretty ingenious, because so many characters can say a lot with actions instead of words. Every scene with Snake is just the best one in the game, except the one where Mario or Link tries to jump you for fighting their girl.
way i see it, Banjo & Kazooie SORT OF have a gimmick - their wonderwing. can only be used 5 times per stock. YMMV on whether you'd call it a "gimmick" in the traditional sense though
So what you did was help prove my point that he is a protagonist with Hey You, Pikachu! because that came out in Japan a month before Super Smash Bros came out in Japan.
Anyway I think Pikachu can be considered the protagonist of Pokemon Yellow since he is the first and only Pokemon you can pick from Professor Oak's lab, there are minigames that you can only do with Pikachu, he is the only Pokemon that can follow you around and he is prominently shown off during the intro.
...That was literally my point. I think? Meh, I can't remember.
But my point otherwise is Pikachu is a main character moreso than just a protagonist or mascot. That helped too.
One should expect, for the first character, to be a main character in the franchise as a whole. That doesn't mean it'll be necessarily a protagonist or a mascot, but they will be important regardless. Pikachu is a good core point of that.
I think Subspace's silent protagonist motif was pretty ingenious, because so many characters can say a lot with actions instead of words. Every scene with Snake is just the best one in the game, except the one where Mario or Link tries to jump you for fighting their girl.
It's also realizable since the pantomiming is universal, and doesn't have to deal with mute and selectively mute characters, and the butt ton of voice actors (Sonic has 6 of them) that would have to be involved, including new ones for characters like Captain Falcon (which I'm sure would go over very well). There would also inevitably be scenes where the characters talking to each other are speaking different real world languages for no apparent reason other than they just haven't been dubbed in that region. It would be amazing if they could pull it off with voice acting though. EDIT: As long as they didn't use the freedom of the script to give exposition dumps.
Also, if they do, I want a scene where Link tries to communicate via "hiyah!".
Question. Since we've gotten two of them in a row, I believe there's a decent chance we'll get at least one more first-party from a Switch game. Out of all current Switch games including those that are unannounced, which two do you consider most likely to get a character as DLC?
For me, I'll say SwSh and BotW 2. Both come from two of Nintendo's biggest franchises, both have plenty of material to make a DLC bundle, and both would likely have a few good options for unique characters (I'm only assuming in BotW 2's case).
And yet there is still a market for simpler characters too. Anecdotal, but I'll say you just listed off four characters I don't play because they're complex, and another who I haven't bought for the same reason. See also Joker's ultimate mode and Hero's 30 different dSpecials as well.
Smash has added some complex mechanically intense characters, but also some relatively simple ones. Rids and K.Rool have some minor gimmicks, but a lot of them are pretty basic mechanically. In a game this size, it's good to have options.
I have noticed that the DLC tends to trend more complex and gimmicky, so I'd like to see some more simplicity coming in. BK actually seems relatively straightforward, and I feel like I'd click with them the most.
I was playing online not to long ago (haven't played the game much since early 19), and I noticed that a lot of people were playing Byleth. Saw one Banjo. None of the others. I think its that Byleth works in the context of Smash. They're uniqueness (the different weapons) makes sense in Smash since it's just directions which you already do. Contrast this to Terry's motions (which don't work well in Smash) and Hero (menus in a fighting game is moronic). I think one problem with DLC is too often they try to make a mechanic over making a competent character. I get that they want to make it flashy, but I think more often than not being straightforward works well. Banjo is super fun to play as because he just feels like a normal Smash character. Sometimes restraint works best.
It's also realizable since the pantomiming is universal, and doesn't have to deal with mute and selectively mute characters, and the butt ton of voice actors (Sonic has 6 of them) that would have to be involved, including new ones for characters like Captain Falcon (which I'm sure would go over very well). There would also inevitably be scenes where the characters talking to each other are speaking different real world languages for no apparent reason other than they just haven't been dubbed in that region. It would be amazing if they could pull it off with voice acting though. EDIT: As long as they didn't use the freedom of the script to give exposition dumps.
Also, if they do, I want a scene where Link tries to communicate via "hiyah!".
I think it's super slept on. It's modern, popular, and a huge milestone for Nintendo, and it's one of the few 1st party IPs with zero representation in Smash yet. It's Nintendo's first IP to originate on mobile phones, and it prints money. It's also already had crossovers with Fire Emblem, Monster Hunter, and Megaman. I think Smash would be the perfect series to introduce it to people who can't and/or don't play games on mobile. Granblue has made its console appearance with its Fantasy Versus fighting game (and upcoming Re:link Action RPG), and I'd like to see Dragalia make a similar transition to the home console side of gaming. I'm very interested in the series, but I don't play games on my phone that much (except for Love Nikki!).
Personally, I'd prefer a Granblue Fantasy character, but any Cygames rep seems somewhat likely to happen.
Smash is celebration of video games, and mobile gaming is a huge part of the industry now. Whether you play them or not, I think its significance and contribution to gaming should not be looked down upon.
A mobile game rep deserves to be in because of Mobile Gaming's "significance and contibution"? Their contribution to gaming as a whole is that they've made it worse.
Overall I think mobile games are just a ****ty industry that's infecting gaming as a whole with their poor practice -- that being the bare minimum of effort, with maximum monetization. The big game companies like EA and Activision are changing their games to be more like mobile games, and monetizing their games in the same way, too -- not to mention trying to shift franchises like Diablo to mobile.
Franchises like Pokemon already suffer due to mobile gaming -- LGPE was dumbed down and made more like Go in an attempt to capture that audience, and Sw/Sh was an unfinished trainwreck because Gamefreak doesn't give a **** about the main series anymore because Go is so much more lucrative. Time will tell if other franchises like FE and Mario Kart suffer in the same or similar ways.
While I don't think Smash Bros itself would be worsened by the addition of a Mobile character, I'd really hate to see mobile gaming put on the same pedestal as the rest of the franchises in Smash. I want Nintendo to distance their mainline franchises from the mobile market, and a Dragalia/Granblue/Fate (it's a moblie franchise at this point) character in Smash is a sure sign that wouldn't happen
Question. Since we've gotten two of them in a row, I believe there's a decent chance we'll get at least one more first-party from a Switch game. Out of all current Switch games including those that are unannounced, which two do you consider most likely to get a character as DLC?
For me, I'll say SwSh and BotW 2. Both come from two of Nintendo's biggest franchises, both have plenty of material to make a DLC bundle, and both would likely have a few good options for unique characters (I'm only assuming in BotW 2's case).
It's a tricky question. I don't think there are many candidates if we're talking only about Switch characters. I could see Rex happening, but I don't really believe he's super likely.
Sooo... after ARMS, I guess that a BotW 2 rep could happen. Which I think is relatively possible is a character from an unannounced game. It doesn't have to be from a new IP, maybe a new entry for a first party series.
I definitely can see at least 1 more Nintendo character in the pass, the thing is... I have trouble deciding on who could be the most likely choice. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Nintendo pick ends being unexpected, just like happened with ARMS.
Travis Touchdown isn't a first party character, but he's the closest thing to a Nintendo character that I find very likely. I just have the feeling that he will be one of the DLC characters.
It was pretty cool seeing how the intro to World of Light had full voice-acting. It got pretty much everyone hyped about the Story mode.
And then it turned out that it sucked.
I think Subspace's silent protagonist motif was pretty ingenious, because so many characters can say a lot with actions instead of words. Every scene with Snake is just the best one in the game, except the one where Mario or Link tries to jump you for fighting their girl.
I agree. Plus, everyone being silent also added a good layer of ambiguity to the plot. You still understand who the good guys and bad guys are, and what they need to do, but a lot of the times characters give indication that they're thinking something and you can never be too sure what. Stuff like Samus' reactions to Pikachu being tortured (holy crap this happened in a game) and anything with Ganondorf. Since they couldn't explain the world and setting, a lot of it is more intriguing as well, especially when you have implied lore like the history of the R.O.B.s and the Ancient Minister.
Question. Since we've gotten two of them in a row, I believe there's a decent chance we'll get at least one more first-party from a Switch game. Out of all current Switch games including those that are unannounced, which two do you consider most likely to get a character as DLC?
For me, I'll say SwSh and BotW 2. Both come from two of Nintendo's biggest franchises, both have plenty of material to make a DLC bundle, and both would likely have a few good options for unique characters (I'm only assuming in BotW 2's case).
Octoling (Splatoon 2 Octo Expansion) and a Xenoblade rep. Maybe Fiora to promote Definitive Edition in May, or Elma for XCX Definitive.
...you did say unannounced, and i feel it's a matter of time before XCXDE happens. they only said porting it would be difficult, but what if it were a total from the ground up overhaul like XCDE?
Question. Since we've gotten two of them in a row, I believe there's a decent chance we'll get at least one more first-party from a Switch game. Out of all current Switch games including those that are unannounced, which two do you consider most likely to get a character as DLC?
Pokémon Sword, Pokémon Shield, and The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild's sequel are the only things I see them wanting to promote. Animal Crossing: New Horizons gets an honorable mention but I don't think it needs Super Smash Bros.'s help. Otherwise, I there isn't really anything foreseeable.
Some characters with gibberish would probably make for comedic cutscenes (People can't understand whatever is saying).
Fighters who canonically speak English include , so that's something. I don't know about the Belmonts, I'm like 90% sure they're from England but I don't know where they even are half the time.
Heck, I'd even be happy getting just costume DLC based on games. Seriously, it looks like they could easily expand the interface to have more than 8 costumes, particularly for characters like Link who have had loads of looks.
And I really miss the TP costumes. A BotW2 set of costumes would be an easy way to pull that in. Especially since I need a maned Dorf since I got him in Hyrule Warriors.
sidenote - when are we getting more news on that? That trailer was incredible, and just seeing them go back to Ganondorf was epic beyond reason.
And let's have some more ports while we're at it. Just go ahead and port OoT/MM/TP from the 3DS/WiiU up to Switch. I'll buy 'em again. And if we want a ground up remake, my vote's on Morrowind. That'd make a great game on Switch, Todd...
Some characters with gibberish would probably make for comedic cutscenes (People can't understand whatever is saying).
Fighters who canonically speak English include , so that's something. I don't know about the Belmonts, I'm like 90% sure they're from England but I don't know where they even are half the time.
Belmont is a french name, so the family probably comes from France, but Wallachia (where the games take place) spoke some sort of Slavic language I think.
Best version of Ganondorf to date. It's also his most physical. OOT was kind of half physical and half magic. TP was barely any magic and he showed off his true power, the physical kind, pretty well. It also helps that his update in Brawl massively made him way more canon than his OOT Melee design did.
Not that I dislike the swords.
Strangest part is if we had first gotten WW Ganondorf, he'd be even less magical than the current one.
Belmont is a french name, so the family probably comes from France, but Wallachia (where the games take place) spoke some sort of Slavic language I think.
Some characters with gibberish would probably make for comedic cutscenes (People can't understand whatever is saying).
Fighters who canonically speak English include , so that's something. I don't know about the Belmonts, I'm like 90% sure they're from England but I don't know where they even are half the time.
It'd be funny because for a while, only Villager could understand her, but he only communicates in gestures.
As for English localization, Cloud is the only character who likely wouldn't get his script translated, so any scenes with him would be odd.
The other languages could potentially have the spoken languages all over the place though assuming they wouldn't add voice actors to certain characters.
It'd be funny because for a while, only Villager could understand her, but he only communicates in gestures.
As for English localization, Cloud is the only character who likely wouldn't get his script translated, so any scenes with him would be odd.
The other languages could potentially have the spoken languages all over the place though assuming they wouldn't add voice actors to certain characters.
Brawl probably saved a lot of money for voice acting by being mute with everyone. Even with the voice acting we got in that one cutscene (which is probably why they went ahead with it), Subspace's voiceless interactions were leagues better, probably because they actually had interaction.
Like dude, that Lucas cutscene where he runs away from Wario after the man just threw Ness into trophy hell? And it starts raining? That **** hit deep.
Pit telling everyone that they can win against a giant sphere floating in the sky? I'm sleep.
I mean, any character they add is inherently promotional, because the goal of adding characters to the game is to promote spending $30 on the Fighters Pass.
As far as promoting other Switch IP, though? Yeah, there's no way they do 7 characters in a row without at least one pick that's meant to cater to veteran smash fans like Banjo was.
I was playing online not to long ago (haven't played the game much since early 19), and I noticed that a lot of people were playing Byleth. Saw one Banjo. None of the others. I think its that Byleth works in the context of Smash. They're uniqueness (the different weapons) makes sense in Smash since it's just directions which you already do. Contrast this to Terry's motions (which don't work well in Smash) and Hero (menus in a fighting game is moronic). I think one problem with DLC is too often they try to make a mechanic over making a competent character. I get that they want to make it flashy, but I think more often than not being straightforward works well. Banjo is super fun to play as because he just feels like a normal Smash character. Sometimes restraint works best.
I play a lot of Online in the Elite Smash range and I see a lot of Terry and Joker. I've seen a couple Byleth to but they were just below the Elite Smash range. Hero and Banjo are from my experience pretty rare, but I still bump into them from time to time.
Technical characters tend to appeal more to more skilled players. Terry's inputs aren't too hard to pull of if you take the time to practice them, and he's definitely a lot easier to pick up then the shotos. Although this still does give these characters more niche player bases, there's still a market for them.
Not to say that we shouldn't have simple characters in our DLC. They're popular with casual players and reward good fundamentals if your a more competitive one.
I hate to backtrack to my earlier comment, but I think we need a wee bit more context for this ARMS pick.
The other fighting-genre characters we have in Smash are Ryu and Terry Bogard. Both of those two characters are essentially treated as the “mascot” of their respective franchises. Both are essentially the “boring” picks among their respective rosters. This is why Nakoruru was suggested over Terry...because some felt she would be “more unique”, which actually doesn’t make sense considering Terry is plenty unique to Smash on his own.
Spring Man, while the Ryu or Terry to ARMS, is basically the “boring” pick of ARMS. Yet, he is the equivalent to those characters. I believe the true reason there is any debate as to whether it will be Spring Man or Min-Min is because Spring Man is already an Assist Trophy. In any other case, with any other franchise, or any other single title from a given franchise, we have always gotten the “mascot” or protagonist.
After all, Smash is a “mascot fighter”. It thrives on the big names crossing over with each other, regardless of the gameplay potential of the secondary cast of their respective games. This is exactly the case with several additions. Because this point will make my post quite long, I will spoiler it:
Now, the thing of it is, is that not all characters get added for the same reasons. It’s self-explanatory why Smash 64 started with the characters it did. They were clear mascots of Nintendo as a brand.
However, the further down the list you go, the more obscure certain picks become. Even if picks become obscure, in most cases the protagonist is still the most recognizable pick from a given series. There has never been a series that has added a character that was NOT the protagonist as their first pick. It has never happened.
If ARMS gets Min-Min as the first playable fighter in Smash, it would be the first of any series with a playable debut in Smash to not start with the protagonist. I would argue that if Spring Man were not an Assist Trophy, this conversation would be mostly over with.
If we assume that Nintendo and the dev team are fine with simply toggling Spring Man off when he is chosen as a playable character (which is something that has been done for other characters in particular situations) or maybe they don’t bother toggling it off at all and we have a situation like ZSS final smashing armored Samus in her identical armor suit, or Chrom being hit with Robin’s final Smash (which features Chrom) and then Chrom taunting Chrom as Chrom claps for Robin on the victory screen, I do have to wonder how strong of an argument it really is.
Brawl probably saved a lot of money for voice acting by being mute with everyone. Even with the voice acting we got in that one cutscene (which is probably why they went ahead with it), Subspace's voiceless interactions were leagues better, probably because they actually had interaction.
Like dude, that Lucas cutscene where he runs away from Wario after the man just threw Ness into trophy hell? And it starts raining? That **** hit deep.
Pit telling everyone that they can win against a giant sphere floating in the sky? I'm sleep.
Voice acting has a ton of logistical issues in a game of this scope, but if done well, it could be just as powerful as the voiceless cutscenes. Imagine a scene where Shulk is fighting Mewtwo and Mewtwo's all like "humanity is evil", and Shulks all like "not it's not" except there's actually good writing and context behind it. But, due to the logistical issues, I would agree that the voiceless cutscenes are the better way to go.
As much as I like to see top-notch graphics and the like, the voice acting is one of the places I'd prefer to live in nostalgia land for Nintendo. They're really good at weaving stories without dialogue, and that makes it more personal as well since you can insert your own voice in.
Besides, suddenly voicing characters who aren't normally voiced (coughZeldacough) doesn't always go well. I think that having voices in BotW was probably one of the worst things about it...which isn't saying much since the game was still incredible. Urbosa and Revali - great acting and it really helped them as characters. Mipha? I wanted to claw my ears off sometimes she was so bad, and it's a major part of the reason I don't like the character. Zelda's VA could have been better as well, but at least she was selling it in some places.
I think WoL could have worked fine without the voices. It was only in that first scene anyway, and it would have still had the impact.
I mean if assists don't get promoted wouldn't it be Ribbon Girl as she's the other face of ARMS? She is shown on promotional covers after all with Spring Man.
In a way, Ribbon Girl is the character out of the top contenders who I expect the least.
The logic people typically use for why she would be added over other characters is that she's a mascot of sorts, but if that's what Nintendo is looking for in an ARMS character, why not just add Spring Man instead? It's like people believe Nintendo would actually be intimidated by an AT to the point where they'd go with their second choice.
I've never been able to understand or get behind the idea of a playable Eevee that changes forms depending on certain things.
Like that to me is just...not Eevee. It sounds very convoluted of an idea and is incredibly rigid. You evolve into Flareon? Cool, now you're stuck until you get KO'd? Oof. Having an Eevee evolve into Flareon and then evolve into Jolteon is not how the mechanic works with Pokemon itself, so I can see why it would be avoided.
Eh. I like Eevee and think it's an iconic Pokemon, but the last thing I would want is a moveset that just doesn't fit the Pokemon or the game it comes from, nor would I want one that seems overly complicated or just...not fun sounding, if I'm being honest.
Currently, Assist Trophies are officially confirmed, to disconfirm fighters. This hurts Spring Man's chances, though with him being the far and away most obvious choice for an ARMS character, it doesn't completely kill them either.
Besides, suddenly voicing characters who aren't normally voiced (coughZeldacough) doesn't always go well. I think that having voices in BotW was probably one of the worst things about it...which isn't saying much since the game was still incredible. Urbosa and Revali - great acting and it really helped them as characters. Mipha? I wanted to claw my ears off sometimes she was so bad, and it's a major part of the reason I don't like the character. Zelda's VA could have been better as well, but at least she was selling it in some places.
Do I just have a bad ear for this kind of thing, because I thought The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild's voice acting was perfectly fine, and certainly not a weak point within the game. To me it feels people set the bar for good voice acting is set at something like The Last of Us, and anything less is awful.
