Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

The first thing I thought of when I saw "Eevee Trainer" was Wes from Pokemon Colosseum. That or Michael from XD: Gale of Darkness who actually uses a Eevee. Not to say this is a good way to represent Eevee or Pokemon Colosseum/XD, but I wouldn't complain if we got Eevee with either of them in the background.

Man I'd love to have another Colosseum like game, a side Pokemon RPG that focuses on more of the world/story rather than the normal trapping of a new mainline games.

 

[Ben Holt]

They're about as similar as the Koopalings are, and I don't like the Koopalings as alternate costumes either.

Oh I love the Koopalings as alts. They'd never be playable otherwise. But I would like to see Hero broken up into separate characters in the future.
You realize that I'm only speaking about Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min. Right? Those four are similar enough to be alts. Ninjara's disappearing can easily just be his dodge animation. Spring Man's rage is already a toggle-able Smash Mechanic. Ribbon Girl's four jumps can be averaged out with the other three to get Smash's default double jump, and Min Min's kicks can be incorporated into a generic moveset.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Why don't they just put all the Eeveelutions into one moveset as alts? Sure they have different properties, but they have the same central gimmick and a similar enough bodyshape. I really don't get why someone wouldn't want that! Just have the moveset use Flareon's Flame Wheel, Vaporeon's Acid Armor, Minmin's kicks and Ribbon Girl's multiple jumps. There! Perfect.

There seems to be some subtext in this one that's going over my head... /s

I get it - the whole ARMS bunch-of-alts thing is a hot topic. I get that for fans of ARMS, it's pretty uncool to see your favorite get diluted in such a way.

But everyone keeps bringing up the same points, which makes me think the ARMS characters alone don't have a full Smash moveset that could be ripped from game without some liberties. All you hear is 'Min's kicks' or 'Ribbon's jumps.' If the bar for "they don't have that move!" is "Ribbon Girl is the only character with multiple jumps," I'm sorry to have to break this to you - whoever the character is going to be is going to get that, whether it's Ribbons or Springo or some chimera of all of them. Even our resident boxer character, who has no business jumping, has a double jump (But "You ain't no air fighter, Mac!")

As we all know, Smash basically requires characters to be able to have a full set of normal attacks (both fast but weak, slow but strong), a full set of specials, a full set of throws, and yes - a double jump. Even the characters who can't jump in their normal games get not only one but two jumps. Therefore, either the character has to be Ribbon Girl, or some ARMS character is going to get an ability that really looks like hers. That's going to happen.

I'm more interested in this being a character that'll break our fanrules - either we'll get our first same-game Assist promotion, or a character who's not the face of the game sets in before the boxart. And either way, it'll be our first Spirit promotion...unless they go for one of the lesser-known characters. Will they rename the Spirit or even change them? And is this a precedent, or a one-off? I don't know if this will open the Assist promotion floodgates, but I would have expected Waluigi to be the first to get that, tbh.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You realize that I'm only speaking about Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min. Right? Those four are similar enough to be alts. Ninjara's disappearing can easily just be his dodge animation. Spring Man's rage is already a toggle-able Smash Mechanic. Ribbon Girl's four jumps can be averaged out with the other three to get Smash's default double jump, and Min Min's kicks can be incorporated into a generic moveset.

No.
They're not.
Otherwise they wouldn't have a reason to exist.

I can live with Ninjara not having his poof shield(TM) since that could be too powerful in a 2D space. EDIT: He should still make up for it by being the most ambiguously dodging character in the game (including his tech rolls and such).
Spring Man's mechanic is not the same as Rage. It makes his ARMS's effects always go off. It does not directly buff damage. You're also ignoring his deflect ring that helps him hold his ground in neutral.
You're ignoring Ribbon Girl's fast fall ability. Yes this is a normal trait for a Smash character, but hers would still be unique, as it would be the fastest in the game. This along with her four short jumps allow her to mix up her approach, and she's also one of the few characters that incorporates jumping into their gameplan.
First, Spring Man is a boxer, he should not kick. Second, kicks would de-emphasize the whole point of the character. You're also ignoring Min Min's dragon ARM that allows her to be one of the best characters at pressuring the opponent.

But everyone keeps bringing up the same points, which makes me think the ARMS characters alone don't have a full Smash moveset that could be ripped from game without some liberties. All you hear is 'Min's kicks' or 'Ribbon's jumps.' If the bar for "they don't have that move!" is "Ribbon Girl is the only character with multiple jumps," I'm sorry to have to break this to you - whoever the character is going to be is going to get that, whether it's Ribbons or Springo or some chimera of all of them. Even our resident boxer character, who has no business jumping, has a double jump (But "You ain't no air fighter, Mac!")

I don't have a problem with giving the characters new abilities and properties to fit within Super Smash Bros. What I do have a problem with, is mishmashing all of the characters into something that isn't any of them.

If you want Spring Man in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, great! If you want Min Min in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, sure. Why not? Don't put Spbbarin in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. That's not even a real character.

 

[PSIGuy]

As we all know, Smash basically requires characters to be able to have a full set of normal attacks (both fast but weak, slow but strong), a full set of specials, a full set of throws, and yes - a double jump.

Multiple jumps in a base game (like Banjo Kazooie, Kirby etc) result in MULTIPLE mid-air jumps in Smash. That's the difference between Smash baseline abilities and game-inspired ones. No other Arms character has reason to jump in mid-air more than once. That kind of air mobility also inspires the rest of their kit; Ribbon Girl would have better aerials than other characters because so much of her playstyle is based around it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Even this is a horrible idea. They'd just be Pokémon Trainer, but waaaaay too much. I suppose you could make the player pick three of them to take into battle, but even if it's executed perfectly, there is no way anyone can justify making 9 entire movesets (with inevitably more in the future) for one character idea, even (or especially) if they're all semi-clones of each other.

You're overthinking it. It'd probably be Vaporeon, Flareon and Jolteon. The original 3, and the only ones available in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee. Which is also the trainer the should have.

 

[Ben Holt]

Eevee would be a pretty cool Pokémon rep, but he doesn't absolutely require its evolutions.
If anything, just make them assist characters (not Assist Trophies) like Toad and Chrom.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why don't they just put all the Eeveelutions into one moveset as alts? Sure they have different properties, but they have the same central gimmick and a similar enough bodyshape. I really don't get why someone wouldn't want that! Just have the moveset use Flareon's Flame Wheel, Vaporeon's Acid Armor, Minmin's kicks and Ribbon Girl's multiple jumps. There! Perfect.

My theory has always been that Eevee should get in, as an evergreen Pokemon (always relevant), that promotes the core premise of EVOLUTION within Pokemon.

Eevee has a base moveset, and either once per stock or once period, can evolve. WHAT Eevee can evolve into depends on the type of game being played
(example: time of day gives it an option to turn into either Espeon or Umbreon; some locations only allow for Leafeon or Glaceon; Only in elite smash and team smash can you get a Sylveon; Stock matches unlock the ability to turn into a Stone evolution)- something balanced in some way.

Each evolution has one difference to the main Eevee (aside from visual changes). The moveset is otherwise the same, only with slightly affected properties.

This way, new evolutions can be added (great promotion), it adds the theme of major Pokemon evolutuion quite nicely, makes use of this as a mechanic in gameplay, and it allows the skins to easily be programmed- effectively it represents many different Pokemon,generations, and types.

 

[Ben Holt]

My theory has always been that Eevee should get in, as an evergreen Pokemon (always relevant), that promotes the core premise of EVOLUTION within Pokemon.

Eevee has a base moveset, and either once per stock or once period, can evolve. WHAT Eevee can evolve into depends on the type of game being played
(example: time of day gives it an option to turn into either Espeon or Umbreon; some locations only allow for Leafeon or Glaceon; Only in elite smash and team smash can you get a Sylveon; Stock matches unlock the ability to turn into a Stone evolution)- something balanced in some way.

Each evolution has one difference to the main Eevee (aside from visual changes). The moveset is otherwise the same, only with slightly affected properties.

This way, new evolutions can be added (great promotion), it adds the theme of major Pokemon evolutuion quite nicely, makes use of this as a mechanic in gameplay, and it allows the skins to easily be programmed- effectively it represents many different Pokemon,generations, and types.

Can we also get Blaziken and Zoroark?
My idea for Zoroark has always been a Lucina-esque Echo of Lucario. No Aura mechanic, but replace Side-B with Wolf's Side-B, as Lucario's Force Palm only really works with Aura. Call it Night Slash.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Evolving mid-battle would be even LESS game accurate than just letting him use both Urshifu's styles.

As for this-- c'mon, are you just being obstinate?
There are no '8 player free for alls' in Pokemon. Okay. That's a bit literal.
You were comparing Pokemon not evolving in battle literally (Versus, them evolving by EXPERIENCE, which you could argue each little confrontation equivocates to being)
to two completely separate beings being the same person.


To that- I reckon back to those who recommended a tag team of Urshifu instead of a stance change.
I don't see a reason to shoehorn in a tag team- that's a valid mechanic that is an actual mechanic of other games.
Its a bit different than a stance change- which uses the same being, the same skeleton, just handling completely differently.

This would feel very sloppy to me- like the interpretation of many characters in a Marvel VS Capcom- it takes an idea in theory, and forces it into the gameplay, when that gameplay would ultimately no longer feel like the 'essence' of the character. The essence is what is important, not the literal. I think Sakurai mentioned this when he spoke on Robin, that a character must dance in his head. It rang true for me because it is always what I thought Sakurai did his best to achieve. It rings true for me because this is the ART of ADAPTATION- its relating one thing to another, for an over all feel. Not taking each individual part and attempting to make a direct ratio. Adapting any one thing to another is a challenge, it takes the essence. Like translation of a language, or turning one story (say, a book) into another story (a movie).

END MAJOR THESIS

 

[Simnm]

You all might want to take a look at this,I found something that might be very compelling evidence towards steves inclusion in smash

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Still surprised Zeraora wasn't a Lucario echo. They have almost the exact same body shape, and Zeraora was the big new mythical when Ultimate launched.

You all might want to take a look at this,I found something that might be very compelling evidence towards steves inclusion in smash

There was a problem fetching the tweet

>make a tweet about how much I want Arbiter from Halo in smash
>delete tweet
>The nintendo ninjas force Sakurai to add him to conform with the deleted tweet = confirmation logic (when did this start? I've seen it used as an argument for a ton of characters)

There's literally no reason for Nintendo to delete a tweet asking for a certain character in Smash. Leakers like Sabi got hit with a C&D because they were actually leaking secrets, not wishing for certain characters. If the tweet was 'I have insider information that says Steve/Skelly is in' and it got deleted, that would be something, but it's just someone talking about the characters in Smash.

 

[Kokiden]

You all might want to take a look at this,I found something that might be very compelling evidence towards steves inclusion in smash

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Can't see that meaning anything. Sorry Steve fans.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pokeballs being made before ATs and nog being designed to be able to get hit means literally nothing as smacking around ATs wasn't a thing in Brawl but rather Smash 4, why are you like this

I can't even figure out what on earth you're talking about anymore.

You've been just marking them as stingy despite it being proven otherwise and aren't backing it up. And that's barely what I can get out of it.

I probably missed the first post, so whatever original argument you're making I don't know what you're talking about anymore.

I'm just going to move on cause you're being extremely confusing.

Still surprised Zeraora wasn't a Lucario echo. They have almost the exact same body shape, and Zeraora was the big new mythical when Ultimate launched..

That's why they aren't Echoes. They need to have identical bodyshapes.

Zeraora has only a similar bodyshape and at best could use Lucario to slightly build off of. They don't really share much of anything either. They're tangibly similar by being creatures who can use energy, so maybe a few animations could easily work.

A clone/semi-clone is possible, though.

 

[Will]

Eevee would be a pretty cool Pokémon rep, but he doesn't absolutely require its evolutions.

Oh, you totally do.

If Mega Man has the cool crossover Final Smash, if I ain't seeing all Eeveelutions going ham when I build up the FS meter there will be riots.

 

[Ben Holt]

Oh, you totally do.

If Mega Man has the cool crossover Final Smash, if I ain't seeing all Eeveelutions going ham when I build up the FS meter there will be riots.

Literally read the second half of my post. Lol.

 

[Will]

Literally read the second half of my post. Lol.

Bro you said assists not final smash partners.

 

[Arcanir]

Still surprised Zeraora wasn't a Lucario echo. They have almost the exact same body shape, and Zeraora was the big new mythical when Ultimate launched.

USUM in general got no content in the base game as things like Dusk Lycanroc and the Necrozma forms were missing, and we didn't even get any exclusive music to it. So even if it was a plausible echo it probably wasn't even on their radar until it was far too late.

 

[Spongeboob]

Pardon me if I'm interrupting anything, but what do you guys think about the chances of Dragalia Lost getting a fighter in the future?

 

[PSIGuy]

Maybe not a Fighter but I think it’s definitely viable to get representation (Mii Fighter or Spirits) to raise awareness. Our first new Pass character is an ARMS rep so trying time push their mobile stuff and other releases seems possible.

 

[Will]

Pardon me if I'm interrupting anything, but what do you guys think about the chances of Dragalia Lost getting a fighter in the future?

this whole pass will have me sleep by then

 

[SKX31]

Pardon me if I'm interrupting anything, but what do you guys think about the chances of Dragalia Lost getting a fighter in the future?

Decently likely, honestly. I get the impression that Nintendo would want more attention to the mobile side of their business - and Dragalia seems like a natural fit. They might also consider DL before any third party reps originating from the mobile side (Angry Birds etc.) to avoid accusations of "selling out".

While Nintendo has really stumbled on the mobile side in some cases, there's some promise there. And while the problems with the mobile industry are well-known, I feel that it's also underestimated by most core gamers. EDIT: Dragalia for example seems to work pretty well with its fast pace; and one can do a lot on the a platform:

 

[Jocario Zero]

Sometimes i wonder if people really understand how echo-fighters work. Last night i saw a video where someone suggested Sephiroth as an echo for Cloud.

Like...really?! Yes, it was just briefly mentioned but the idea alone is just...stupid.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You all might want to take a look at this,I found something that might be very compelling evidence towards steves inclusion in smash

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So basically where we are with Rayman?

 

[Simnm]

Still surprised Zeraora wasn't a Lucario echo. They have almost the exact same body shape, and Zeraora was the big new mythical when Ultimate launched.



>make a tweet about how much I want Arbiter from Halo in smash
>delete tweet
>The nintendo ninjas force Sakurai to add him to conform with the deleted tweet = confirmation logic (when did this start? I've seen it used as an argument for a ton of characters)

There's literally no reason for Nintendo to delete a tweet asking for a certain character in Smash. Leakers like Sabi got hit with a C&D because they were actually leaking secrets, not wishing for certain characters. If the tweet was 'I have insider information that says Steve/Skelly is in' and it got deleted, that would be something, but it's just someone talking about the characters in Smash.

The person who deleted was aubrey norris the senior manager/community manager of minecraft,according to her deleted statements,she would be involved if there was a negotiaton between nintendo and mojang about smash

So basically were we are with Rayman?

It is quite similiar to the rayman situation so yes(if thats what you mean)

 

[SNEKeater]

Granted I don't know about her, but I really doubt than the regular CM would know about a character getting into Smash, even if said character is from the company she works for.

And even if she knows... why she would delete a random old tweet? I mean, the date of the tweet is very clear, it was published even before of Ultimate's release. Even if Steve was next, she wouldn't break NDA or anything like that.

 

[Will]

You all might want to take a look at this,I found something that might be very compelling evidence towards steves inclusion in smash

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The same old song and dance, throw it with the rest we've had in the past year.

 

[ShrimpScampi]

Pardon me if I'm interrupting anything, but what do you guys think about the chances of Dragalia Lost getting a fighter in the future?

I don't think we'd get a fighter, but I would be super down to see some kind of inclusion (Euden Mii Swordfighter costume with some sick remix of a Dragalia track or a spirit event). I just think Euden has limited moveset potential, and a lot of the ways his moveset could go are similar to existing characters (Roy with the fire sword, Corrin with the dragon shapeshifting). Nintendo could certainly get creative and make it work, and any Dragalia inclusion would be super neat, but I think moveset potential is a big obstacle for a Dragalia fighter.

 

[osby]

I don't think we'd get a fighter, but I would be super down to see some kind of inclusion (Euden Mii Swordfighter costume with some sick remix of a Dragalia track or a spirit event). I just think Euden has limited moveset potential, and a lot of the ways his moveset could go are similar to existing characters (Roy with the fire sword, Corrin with the dragon shapeshifting). Nintendo could certainly get creative and make it work, and any Dragalia inclusion would be super neat, but I think moveset potential is a big obstacle for a Dragalia fighter.

Didn't Sakurai say he never rejected a fighter request from Nintendo over moveset reasons?

I don't think Euden is likely but if he gets in, I can see him borrowing moves from other Draglia Lost characters to stand out more from the other fighters.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Pardon me if I'm interrupting anything, but what do you guys think about the chances of Dragalia Lost getting a fighter in the future?

>mobile games

No, thank you

 

[SmashChu]

Pardon me if I'm interrupting anything, but what do you guys think about the chances of Dragalia Lost getting a fighter in the future?

I wouldn't rule it out. If the Pass is more Nintendo focused then I think it's a possibility but its hard to say one way or another.

 

[KatKit]

Pardon me if I'm interrupting anything, but what do you guys think about the chances of Dragalia Lost getting a fighter in the future?

I think it's super slept on. It's modern, popular, and a huge milestone for Nintendo, and it's one of the few 1st party IPs with zero representation in Smash yet. It's Nintendo's first IP to originate on mobile phones, and it prints money. It's also already had crossovers with Fire Emblem, Monster Hunter, and Megaman. I think Smash would be the perfect series to introduce it to people who can't and/or don't play games on mobile. Granblue has made its console appearance with its Fantasy Versus fighting game (and upcoming Re:link Action RPG), and I'd like to see Dragalia make a similar transition to the home console side of gaming. I'm very interested in the series, but I don't play games on my phone that much (except for Love Nikki!).

Personally, I'd prefer a Granblue Fantasy character, but any Cygames rep seems somewhat likely to happen.

>mobile games

No, thank you

Smash is celebration of videogames, and mobile gaming is a huge part of the industry now. Whether you play them or not, I think its significance and contribution to gaming should not be looked down upon.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dragalia Lost has to deal with Granblue, Granblue VS had the best fighting game launch in Japan in a looooooooong time due to the IP, so seeing people rule it out because it's not Nintendo is Smash 4 tier headassery

 

[Freduardo]

I think it's super slept on. It's modern, popular, and a huge milestone for Nintendo, and it's one of the few 1st party IPs with zero representation in Smash yet. It's Nintendo's first IP to originate on mobile phones, and it prints money. It's also already had crossovers with Fire Emblem, Monster Hunter, and Megaman. I think Smash would be the perfect series to introduce it to people who can't and/or don't play games on mobile. Granblue has made its console appearance with its Fantasy Versus fighting game (and upcoming Re:link Action RPG), and I'd like to see Dragalia make a similar transition to the home console side of gaming. I'm very interested in the series, but I don't play games on my phone that much (except for Love Nikki!).

Personally, I'd prefer a Granblue Fantasy character, but any Cygames rep seems somewhat likely to happen.



Smash is celebration of videogames, and mobile gaming is a huge part of the industry now. Whether you play them or not, I think its significance and contribution to gaming should not be looked down upon.

I missed the monster hunter crossover? Just picked it up again cause fire emblem was back in town (have them all but Marth now). First time I actually played as Mega Man. He genuinely makes it a better game.

 

[blackghost]

Well they did a pretty good job at balancing Bayonetta. I imagine he would definitely have his combos but they would have to be limited, just like Bayonetta. You said "...so what amounts to a neutered moveset compared to MVC might not be so good". Unless if I''m misinterpreting your statement, you said that Dante's limited moveset would look inferior to his moveset in MVC or look bad beside it. The difference is MVC is a full-fledged fighting game based on combos, which is very different from Smash. So I don't see why his powers in MVC would matter to Smash. They are fundamentally different games in terms of the combat system.

they wouldnt have to limit dante. ultimately he'd end up as one of the most diffult characters to play im sure but heres what we have in ultimate:
characters with command inputs
characters with charge specials
characters with limited use specials
characters with meter
chaarcters with light medium and hard variations of normals
character with a back special

its plausible that dante combines all these elements to create a vast moveset. becuase there's no chance sakurai would deflate dante moveset because thats not who dante is.
as for Bayonetta balancing in ultimate I'll just say LOL and call it a post.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

they wouldnt have to limit dante. ultimately he'd end up as one of the most diffult characters to play im sure but heres what we have in ultimate:
characters with command inputs
characters with charge specials
characters with limited use specials
characters with meter
chaarcters with light medium and hard variations of normals
character with a back special

its plausible that dante combines all these elements to create a vast moveset. becuase there's no chance sakurai would deflate dante moveset because thats not who dante is.
as for Bayonetta balancing in ultimate I'll just say LOL and call it a post.

Dante doesn't need all that in one though, as long as Dante's flashy, that's honestly all he needs, especially considering no character in Smash fights like Dante's regular swordstyle

 

[RouffWestie]

Smash is celebration of videogames, and mobile gaming is a huge part of the industry now. Whether you play them or not, I think its significance and contribution to gaming should not be looked down upon.

Hence why the first mobile game rep should be MK Tour Diddy Kong, with his special mechanic being you have to pay an additional $40 to actually play as him.

 

[blackghost]

Dante doesn't need all that in one though, as long as Dante's flashy, that's honestly all he needs, especially considering no character in Smash fights like Dante's regular swordstyle

dante as a character isnt about what he needs. he's about how much he wants to style and gameplay-wise he is defined accross multiple games as having a lot of specials and being hard to master. if he gets in i'd expect him to reflect that.

 

[Deleted member]

Only thing Dante needs is the Royal Gyard stance for the disrespect hype.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You're overthinking it. It'd probably be Vaporeon, Flareon and Jolteon. The original 3, and the only ones available in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee. Which is also the trainer the should have.

Oh that makes sense. Though, now we don't have Eevee which was who we were trying to add in the first place. lol

My idea for Zoroark has always been a Lucina-esque Echo of Lucario. No Aura mechanic, but replace Side-B with Wolf's Side-B, as Lucario's Force Palm only really works with Aura. Call it Night Slash.

Zoroark doesn't quite fit Lucario's proportions, and even if it did I don't think Lucario's fighting style would really do the Pokémon justice. You also wouldn't be able to use its Illusion ability to any effect.

Since you wouldn't be able to trick opponents with Illusion in a 1v1, I think Zoroark would be best as a part of some sort of Pokémon Trainer style character. That way it can masquerade as one of its teammates whenever you switch to it, forcing them to guess whether you switched to Zoroark, or the other Pokémon in the party.

To that- I reckon back to those who recommended a tag team of Urshifu instead of a stance change.
I don't see a reason to shoehorn in a tag team- that's a valid mechanic that is an actual mechanic of other games.
Its a bit different than a stance change- which uses the same being, the same skeleton, just handling completely differently.

This would feel very sloppy to me- like the interpretation of many characters in a Marvel VS Capcom- it takes an idea in theory, and forces it into the gameplay, when that gameplay would ultimately no longer feel like the 'essence' of the character. The essence is what is important, not the literal. I think Sakurai mentioned this when he spoke on Robin, that a character must dance in his head. It rang true for me because it is always what I thought Sakurai did his best to achieve. It rings true for me because this is the ART of ADAPTATION- its relating one thing to another, for an over all feel. Not taking each individual part and attempting to make a direct ratio. Adapting any one thing to another is a challenge, it takes the essence. Like translation of a language, or turning one story (say, a book) into another story (a movie).

The idea of the tag team thing was just to recontextualize the stance switch into something that could be deemed acceptable. Though, I don't think it would be all that weird for the character if the idea was explored beyond that. It's about a shoehorned as the stance switch itself since both are logical, but neither are things that the Pokémon can actually do. I think either would work as an extension of Urshifu's shtick.

Well they did a pretty good job at balancing Bayonetta.

as for Bayonetta balancing in ultimate I'll just say LOL and call it a post.

To give you a TLDR version, she's a low tier character that nobody likes fighting because she warps the game around her.

Dante doesn't need all that in one though, as long as Dante's flashy, that's honestly all he needs, especially considering no character in Smash fights like Dante's regular swordstyle

Agreed. I'll just add that while he should have his various weapons, they should just pick the most important ones for Special Moves and potentially Smash Attacks and Final Smash (assuming it isn't Stinger). Anything more risks cluttering the moveset.