Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I kind of doubt that after its role in Detective Pikachu.

Tbh, I didn't see the movie and completely forgot Mewtwo was even a part of it.

You seriously underestimate how huge Gen 1 of Pokemon was as a cultural phenomenon and how specifically the first movie that released for the Pokemon anime was based around Mewtwo. Squirtle, Charizard, and Mewtwo all owe a huge part of the public's general understanding of them to the anime's massive success and like, kids who got into Pokemon after the initial craze traditionally would still like see those original movies and such too.

Yeah, I kind of realized that after I posted. There's merch everywhere. I'll admit Pokémon's left my sphere somewhat in the past three or four years, so I just forgot some basic stuff. I still stand by Wario, though.

With Toad I don't know that the A-tier thing matters as much as the fact that he's a blank slate moveset-wise. I'd love him in the game, but I don't know if Nintendo would go for him over anyone else. He wouldn't be a good exposure pick and he probably wouldn't be a great fanservice pick compared to others.

 

[krokotopia101]

So community logic is that 1st party characters would be boring....Aren't these the same people that want Dixie Kong? On top of that, people would say that ANY ARMS rep would have such an uncreative moveset....And yet they're the same people that want Waddle Dee...OR BANDANA WADDLE DEE WHO APPARENTLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. The Smash community's just picky with their characters, and believing they're entitled to have the characters THEY want. No I'm not singling the entire community out.

 

[RouffWestie]

There's only one thing I fear coming from this. Just one.
Are we eventually going to see the birth of... Grotesque Biff?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So community logic is that 1st party characters would be boring....Aren't these the same people that want Dixie Kong? On top of that, people would say that ANY ARMS rep would have such an uncreative moveset....And yet they're the same people that want Waddle Dee...OR BANDANA WADDLE DEE WHO APPARENTLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. The Smash community's just picky with their characters, and believing they're entitled to have the characters THEY want. No I'm not singling the entire community out.

Smash community for you. Same community that are tired of anime swordsmen yet Sora remains one of the most current requested.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dixie Kong is a great choice for a newcomer.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So community logic is that 1st party characters would be boring....Aren't these the same people that want Dixie Kong? On top of that, people would say that ANY ARMS rep would have such an uncreative moveset....And yet they're the same people that want Waddle Dee...OR BANDANA WADDLE DEE WHO APPARENTLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. The Smash community's just picky with their characters, and believing they're entitled to have the characters THEY want. No I'm not singling the entire community out.

Smash community for you. Same community that are tired of anime swordsmen yet Sora remains one of the most current requested.

You do have to remember; the Super Smash Bros. community is made up of a million gajillion people around the world. There's bound to be a bunch of contradictions in that much diversity. That's not to say that there isn't hypocrisy, but I'd say it's more likely that tastes are just all over the place.

 

[PeridotGX]

So community logic is that 1st party characters would be boring....Aren't these the same people that want Dixie Kong? On top of that, people would say that ANY ARMS rep would have such an uncreative moveset....And yet they're the same people that want Waddle Dee...OR BANDANA WADDLE DEE WHO APPARENTLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. The Smash community's just picky with their characters, and believing they're entitled to have the characters THEY want. No I'm not singling the entire community out.

I.. highly doubt these are the same people, but whatever.

And Bandana Dee is the fourth main character in the Kirby series, there's a world of difference between him and a generic one.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

*Min Min topping the poll by a long shot*

I'm so proud of this community

 

[Michael the Spikester]

*Min Min topping the poll by a long shot*

I love you guys!

LMAO and there were some people saying she wasn't the most popular ARMS character. The poll says otherwise.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I.. highly doubt these are the same people, but whatever.

And Bandana Dee is the fourth main character in the Kirby series, there's a world of difference between him and a generic one.

Frankly I still don't see the difference between these generic Kirby enemies

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Minor note, I love that people are considering Biff without missing a beat. He was on the screen with the playable roster so he should be considered. We're on to your blarney Nintendo!

 

[Cosmic77]

LMAO and there were some people saying she wasn't the most popular ARMS character. The poll says otherwise.

Even as a Spring Man supporter, I highly doubt he's the second most popular character.

I think a lot of people are voting based off of who they think is most likely or who would be the best choice to rep ARMS in Smash, not who they like the most.

 

[cosmicB]

So community logic is that 1st party characters would be boring....Aren't these the same people that want Dixie Kong? On top of that, people would say that ANY ARMS rep would have such an uncreative moveset....And yet they're the same people that want Waddle Dee...OR BANDANA WADDLE DEE WHO APPARENTLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. The Smash community's just picky with their characters, and believing they're entitled to have the characters THEY want. No I'm not singling the entire community out.

The community isn't a monolith. I'm one of those people that would hate almost any 1st party pick just because I want Smash to be a celebration of gaming in addition to being a celebration of Nintendo, and the DLC is a perfect place to do that. The sole exception that overrides that thought pattern is Captain Rainbow.

 

[P.Kat]

Hey Mods, thanks for putting up the ARMS' poll.

I’d be hyped for Lyn but I doubt a lot of people would embrace the 9th FE character.

I feel like Lyn is the one FE character who could be revealed without most people making an angry riot.

 

[SmashChu]

Even as a Spring Man supporter, I highly doubt he's the second most popular character.

I think a lot of people are voting based off of who they think is most likely or who would be the best choice to rep ARMS in Smash, not who they like the most.

While this is probably true, Min Min is still pretty popular. She's one of the few ARMS character that had her own thread before the ARMS character was announced. I don't think her place on the poll is just because she works.

 

[Cosmic77]

While this is probably true, Min Min is still pretty popular. She's one of the few ARMS character that had her own thread before the ARMS character was announced. I don't think her place on the poll is just because she works.

I'm not saying she isn't popular, I'm just saying this poll shouldn't be used to measure an ARMS character's popularity.

That is, unless everyone is in agreement that Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are more popular than Twintelle.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Arms character is neat. This gives us four true Switch reps in BotW Link, 11, Byleth, and now an Arms character.

 

[Koopaul]

Twintelle would be a horrible choice to represent ARMS. The only fighter who doesn't fight with her arms!

I'm assuming this is the only ARMS character Smash is getting. They'll be the sole representative of the series. So I want it to be one that symbolizes the series at its core.

 

[Kokiden]

I’ve seen a lot of indifferent to negative reactions from my friends though. Has that been the case all around as well?

From what I've seen, yeah.

The reception hasn't been as explosive with excitement compared to the characters in the previous pass. Lukewarm, indifferent, disappointment is more common from what I'm seeing online.

Of course there are some who are excited, but they're overshadowed by the former.

 

[Cosmic77]

From what I've seen, yeah.

The reception hasn't been as explosive with excitement compared to the characters in the previous pass. Lukewarm, indifferent, disappointment is more common from what I'm seeing online.

Of course there are some who are excited, but they're overshadowed by the former.

Other than Joker and Banjo, I don't think any of the reveals from the first pass were really "explosive" in the US. Hero got mixed reception at best, Terry was completely overshadowed by a Mii Costume, and Byleth...well, Byleth was explosive, but not in the way you're talking about.

I think the response to ARMS so far has been pretty average. Some people are excited, some are disappointed, and a lot of people are just indifferent – they don't necessarily want the character, but they're interested to how this turns out.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hero got mixed reception at best

Japan says hello.

 

[Dinoman96]

Arms character is neat. This gives us four true Switch reps in BotW Link, 11, Byleth, and now an Arms character.

Forgetting someone

 

[Cosmic77]

Japan says hello.

You didn't read my post.

Other than Joker and Banjo, I don't think any of the reveals from the first pass were really "explosive" in the US.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

To be fair the way the Arms character was announced was just really boring… Announcing a franchise with no cgi trailer, no model, not even a character in the middle of a unannounced direct is honestly the most boring Smash announcement I could even think of.

 

[PeridotGX]

Frankly I still don't see the difference between these generic Kirby enemies

Bandana Dee isn't a generic enemy, though. Waddle Dees are, but he's not just a Waddle Dee, he's his own character. From being a joke boss in Super Star Ultra to a Sidekick in RtDL to being a hero of his own in Star Allies, his tale is one of carving your own destiny, rising up from helper to hero.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think people should cut the underwhelming ARMS reveal a little slack. They likely didn't have anything ready to show us, but of course, everyone started freaking out three days after Byleth was revealed because we didn't know who F6 was.

It was either this or just wait until June when the trailer and gameplay footage was ready.

 

[GoodGrief741]

People can recognize Toad, but not really care about him. Until Captain Toad/3D World, he's mostly known as a race of characters that just exists in Mario. He's Piranha Plant levels of recognizable, but not really that beloved (I know some people care more, but Toad isn't some uber popular character people are itching for in Smash either despite knowing he exists). He's only just become an A-lister in the sense he finally got his own games... but like, recognizable isn't enough to make you an A-list character. Like Charizard, Sonic, and several others were absolutely at the forefront of marketing of titles and led them in major ways (Charizard is easily Pokemon's #2 and continues to be one of the most popular fictional "characters" in existence). Toad mostly just showed up in spin-offs and NPC roles until the Wii U era.

Hard disagree, but either way saying "oh it isn't enough to be recognized by everyone, everyone's got to love them too" is just moving the goalposts.

So community logic is that 1st party characters would be boring....Aren't these the same people that want Dixie Kong? On top of that, people would say that ANY ARMS rep would have such an uncreative moveset....And yet they're the same people that want Waddle Dee...OR BANDANA WADDLE DEE WHO APPARENTLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. The Smash community's just picky with their characters, and believing they're entitled to have the characters THEY want. No I'm not singling the entire community out.

Those are obviously not the same people. I guarantee you not a single Dixie Kong or Bandana Dee supporter said that 1st party characters are boring. And I haven't seen anyone, even detractors, say that a moveset would be uncreative.

Seems to me that you just wanted to bash on characters you don't care about and used some people's complaints towards the new reveal as an excuse.

 

[Megadoomer]

I haven’t even played ARMS yet (demo is downloading) and I’m excited for a character from that series.

I just love everything about it! ... except the price.
But I’ll finally get a little taste of it.

I’ve seen a lot of indifferent to negative reactions from my friends though. Has that been the case all around as well?

Yeah, I've got the same problem. From what little I've played of ARMS, it seems like fun, but I'm not willing to drop $90 Canadian on it, especially since my backlog's big enough as it is and I don't know how long I'm going to be on break from work for thanks to the coronavirus. (I have online teaching, but I'm not getting many hours for what seems like a variety of reasons)

If it ever goes on sale (maybe in June, when the Direct that would have been the E3 Direct happens), I might pick it up.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I think people should cut the underwhelming ARMS reveal a little slack. They likely didn't have anything ready to show us, but of course, everyone started freaking out three days after Byleth was revealed because we didn't know who F6 was.

It was either this or just wait until June when the trailer and gameplay footage was ready.

I think this reveal ended up the way it did because of the virus, at least to some extent. It likely impacted development on the DLC, to the point that the reveals and releases of the first few characters had to be pushed back to a later date (if it weren't for the virus, I think the ARMS character would've already been revealed and shadow-dropped the same day as the Direct Mini)... but since Nintendo didn't want to leave us hanging for months (especially after the polarized reactions to Byleth), they decided to give us a little tidbit of info on the fighter to help keep us busy until their eventual release in June.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Smash community for you. Same community that are tired of anime swordsmen yet Sora remains one of the most current requested.

That's not a sword, it's a key.

You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like. No, I do not take criticism, disapproval, or dissenting opinions.

Well I got bad news for you, buddy. That's a 0/6 pass!

LMAO and there were some people saying she wasn't the most popular ARMS character. The poll says otherwise.

Smash community polls are notoriously bad at being representative of the general gaming public.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That's not a sword, it's a key.

Then why is it called an keyblade and treated like an sword as an weapon.

So still an sword.

 

[Kokiden]

Other than Joker and Banjo, I don't think any of the reveals from the first pass were really "explosive" in the US. Hero got mixed reception at best, Terry was completely overshadowed by a Mii Costume, and Byleth...well, Byleth was explosive, but not in the way you're talking about.

I think the response to ARMS so far has been pretty average. Some people are excited, some are disappointed, and a lot of people are just indifferent – they don't necessarily want the character, but they're interested to how this turns out.

I wouldn't say it's average.

For Terry, there was more positivity, and being an icon with an already long established fan base helped.

ARMS has the most lukewarm and underwhelming reception out of the lot thus far, which if you average it out with the other reveals, puts it below average if you ask me.

To be fair the way the Arms character was announced was just really boring… Announcing a franchise with no cgi trailer, no model, not even a character in the middle of a unannounced direct is honestly the most boring Smash announcement I could even think of.

In light of the Coronavirus, I think the reveal is fine. The important thing is we finally know what series is getting into Smash.

I think it's strange people are expecting more than a simple reveal. I said it before the character got announced, but expecting anything more is just not reading the room.

It doesn't matter how they went about it, the fact that the character is from ARMS wouldn't have changed the reception being lukewarm.

 

[axel_]

Okay here's my BIG post for why I think the ARMS character, if it's only one, is more than likely Min Min.

First off, as I'm sure you've all seen before, there was a big ARMS event that started in November 2018 (when Smash DLC was revealed to the public) and ended in June 2019 (around E3, when Nintendo decided to do the second pass according to insiders like Imran)

Its wording seemed to suggest it doubled as a popularity contest. Its final match had Min Min and Ninjara pitted together after several matches had the characters racking in victories.

Spoiler: big image

In the end, the winner was Min Min.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

With what I just said about the timing of this event in correlation to Smash DLC, it can almost be inferred that it was planned from the get-go, with the results gauging what character they may choose. This leads me into another piece.

The creator of ARMS, Kosuke Yabuki, is credited as a game supervisor for Smash Ultimate and has a bunch of other big positions for some of the Switch and Wii U's best-sellers
https://armswiki.org/wiki/Kosuke_Yabuki
In matches he's played, he uses Min Min in most cases, with the only other fighter used being Max Brass. His surprise performance at the ARMS open invitational with Min Min made a lot of waves, covered by a lot of YouTubers including Etika.

He even said himself in an interview that his favorite characters are Min Min and Spring Man.
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/arms-postmortem-interview-kosuke-yabuki-twintelle

We've seen characters getting picked based on developer bias before, especially with Terry and the extreme bulk of SNK content that Sakurai brought with it. So with Yabuki more than likely having a big role in picking the ARMS character as the creator of the series and a big part of Smash Ultimate's development, I could see his favoritism making some sort of influence in the pick.

So we have Min Min, the series creator's favorite character winning overall in an popularity contest for a game that was probably planned to get a character for DLC based on this event's results, ALL BEING UNIFIED BY HER RESTAURANT BEING CALLED THE "MINTENDO NOODLE SHOP"

I rest my case.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That's not a sword, it's a key.

Then why is it called an keyblade and treated like an sword as an weapon.

So still an sword.

Plot twist! It's a club.

I mean look at it. It's not sharp.

 

[smashkirby]

I think this reveal ended up the way it did because of the virus, at least to some extent. It likely impacted development on the DLC, to the point that the reveals and releases of the first few characters had to be pushed back to a later date (if it weren't for the virus, I think the ARMS character would've already been revealed and shadow-dropped the same day as the Direct Mini)... but since Nintendo didn't want to leave us hanging for months (especially after the polarized reactions to Byleth), they decided to give us a little tidbit of info on the fighter to help keep us busy until their eventual release in June.

Honestly, this right here is pretty much my entire thought process as to why and how the 'ARMS in Smash' thing was reveled the way it was. I won't deny that it was a bit underwhelming, but in light of the virus, I'm certainly willing to forgive and forget.

I'm probably biased for saying this, but it helps me that not only is this a 1st party character appearing as DLC, but the fact that it's not yet another F.E. character, and it's from a game I rather enjoy playing on my downtime is a big bonus.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So about the potential sequel to ARMs that could be announced in June.

The main producer was open to a sequel two years ago. Plenty of time for a sequel to be started and finished in 2020 if it's a mission packed sequel like Splatoon 2 or Galaxy 2.

https://www.nintendoreporters.com/en/news/nintendo-switch/arms-producer-kosuke-yabuki-wants-a-sequel

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So about the potential sequel to ARMs that could be announced in June.

The main producer was open to a sequel two years ago. Plenty of time for a sequel to be started and finished in 2020 if it's a mission packed sequel like Splatoon 2 or Galaxy 2.

https://www.nintendoreporters.com/en/news/nintendo-switch/arms-producer-kosuke-yabuki-wants-a-sequel

Yep its all coming together now.

The ARMS rep is gonna be an new character and probably new protag/face/mascot/icon.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Smash Community: Ughhhhh another anime swordsman!

Yet they clamored for Chrom, and still clamor for Isaac.

 

[Megadoomer]

Yet they clamored for Chrom, and still clamor for Isaac.

I've only played the opening of the first Golden Sun game, and even I know that there's far more to how Isaac fights than just using a sword.

This post would be even more confusing if I thought that you were referring to Isaac from the Binding of Isaac, but I hope that's not the case haha.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I still don't think it'll be a completely new character from a potential sequel, since they teased with the current roster instead of just waiting.

Who's to say Spring Man wouldn't still be the mascot, anyway? And why not include a character from the first game?