Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[zeldasmash]

Can we simply end the violence debate? Not only is Halo not that violent but Smash doesn't care at all if your extra violent. When Smash has Bayonetta, Snake and Castlevania and people want characters like Doomguy, Travis Touchdown and Scorpion, I think violence ceases to be a factor in a character's inclusion completely.

 

[[Maple]]

Can we simply end the violence debate? Not only is Halo not that violent but Smash doesn't care at all if your extra violent. When Smash has Bayonetta, Snake and Castlevania and people want characters like Doomguy, Travis Touchdown and Scorpion, I think violence ceases to be a factor in a character's inclusion completely.

I agree and disagree. Sure violence is not that much a problem, but it's a little bit complicated to include a character like Scorpion when his base game is not available in Japan due to ultraviolence. Like it or not but Japan is a huge factor in the inclusion of a new fighter.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

>Still on the violence debate

Can we simply end the violence debate?

I've read the whole thing earlier and I'm not sure it should have been a debate in the first place.

The two sides of the argument were basically:

Phoenixio:
"Master Chief shouldn't be in Smash because i think that he shouldn't be in Smash"

Everybody else:

I'm paraphrasing obviously ...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I've been kinda bored so I'm trying to come up with a hypothetical moveset for Kiryu. Imma include it in a spoiler tag because the final smash is a spoiler:

Spoiler: Yakuza 7

B: the kick seen on the Japanese cover art of the first game, including the red paint line:

Side B: a swift sword strike, preferably with the lightsaber from Yakuza Zero to show the more outlandish parts of his series.

Down B: Essence of Reversal/Essence of Seizing

A counter like the ones he does in his home games, however if the opponent has an item equipped like a baseball bat, a fire flower or laser, Kiryu will swipe the item from them during the counter. Hence the seizing part

Final smash: Tiger drop, using a similar animation for when he does it in Yakuza 7:

Victory poses:

1 He holds a microphone to sing some sick karaoke

2 His pocket car victory pose from Zero and Kiwami where he raises his toy car in the air with a joyful smile

3 "Omae wa mo, shindeiru"

I can't come up with a good recovery.

 

[osby]

I've been kinda bored so I'm trying to come up with a hypothetical moveset for Kiryu. Imma include it in a spoiler tag because the final smash is a spoiler:

Spoiler: Yakuza 7

B: the kick seen on the Japanese cover art of the first game, including the red paint line:
View attachment 266559

Side B: a swift sword strike, preferably with the lightsaber from Yakuza Zero to show the more outlandish parts of his series.
View attachment 266560

Down B: Essence of Reversal/Essence of Seizing

A counter like the ones he does in his home games, however if the opponent has an item equipped like a baseball bat, a fire flower or laser, Kiryu will swipe the item from them during the counter. Hence the seizing part

Final smash: Tiger drop, using a similar animation for when he does it in Yakuza 7:
View attachment 266561

Victory poses:

1 He holds a microphone to sing some sick karaoke

2 His pocket car victory pose from Zero and Kiwami where he raises his toy car in the air with a joyful smile

3 "Omae wa mo, shindeiru"

I can't come up with a good recovery.

I think you can always give him a generic recovery. Maybe something like Flame Chop?

Also, Majima better appears in all of his taunts.

 

[chocolatejr9]

So we didn't get anything today despite that card thing releasing. So, assuming the rumors are true, Thursday's are best bet, right?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So we didn't get anything today despite that card thing releasing. So, assuming the rumors are true, Thursday's are best bet, right?

Dude they normally announce an potential direct on Tuesdays. Its Sunday.

 

[zeldasmash]

I agree and disagree. Sure violence is not that much a problem, but it's a little bit complicated to include a character like Scorpion when his base game is not available in Japan due to ultraviolence. Like it or not but Japan is a huge factor in the inclusion of a new fighter.

I understand what you mean. However, Mortal Kombat is one of the easiest M rated franchises to make Rated T for something like Smash Bros. Injustice proves that you can make them Rated T and still feel like Mortal Kombat.

 

[Schnee117]

Scorpion's most iconic fatality is literally just him taking his mask off and breathing fire.
You don't have to tone anything down lol

 

[chocolatejr9]

Dude they normally announce an potential direct on Tuesdays. Its Sunday.

I know that. I was just saying that because I've noticed people theorising that the card was teasing a reveal. Sorry about that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

https://gonintendo.com/stories/357587-star-wars-jedi-knight-jedi-academy-may-come-to-switch-on-march

Seems evidence is building up for an Nintendo Direct this week. We'll probably know by Tuesday or Wednesday. Hopefully FP6 will be teased then.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's nothing "wrong" with my interpretation.

Perhaps not, but it doesn't really make sense to me for a few reasons. The first is that any character that has a gun in Super Smash Bros. If you shot someone multiple times with enough force to push them back they wouldn't be able to then run and jump around in an attempt to punch you in the face. In the end, the whole thing is just friendly competition in universe and nobody actually dies or even gets seriously hurt. I don't think Master Chief pulling out an assault rifle is going to change that any more than Doom's protagonist whipping out a shot gun.

I know that. I was just saying that because I've noticed people theorising that the card was teasing a reveal. Sorry about that.

You did nothing wrong. He just thought you were being impatient.

 

[DarthEnderX]

[Insert badass fanart of my most wanred here]
[Insert equally cool quote from DBZA]

"Ow! Right in the tit!"

This is getting tedious. You're more than welcome to disagree, but maybe don't act like a 12 years old when arguing against me?

Everyone already tried that, and you kept on insisting on being wrong. So they do this now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 266567

"Ow! Right in the tit!"

This brought a tear to my eye from all the laughter. Thank you.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ok, I'm just going to add this last part and then hopefully we can move on.

Bayonetta. Now obviously Bayonetta is the most violent game in Smash at the moment. A game about hunting Angel's and Demons where her special finishing moves have her using weapons of torture like guillotines before exploding the enemy into a fit of Blood and Gore and that is one of her key ways of fighting. It is ingrained into the game and is impossible to miss. On top of this, any time she does anything gargantuan, she is stripped down naked and often giant Demon dragons bite their humanoid target into tiny bloody bits. Oh and she uses guns. Straight guns.

If Bayonetta can be toned down to that extreme of a degree why can't Master Chief or Doom Slayer. This is just cherry picking because you don't want the character. Stop that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ok, I'm just going to add this last part and then hopefully we can move on.

Bayonetta. Now obviously Bayonetta is the most violent game in Smash at the moment. A game about hunting Angel's and Demons where her special finishing moves have her using weapons of torture like guillotines before exploding the enemy into a fit of Blood and Gore and that is one of her key ways of fighting. It is ingrained into the game and is impossible to miss. On top of this, any time she does anything gargantuan, she is stripped down naked and often giant Demon dragons bite their humanoid target into tiny bloody bits. Oh and she uses guns. Straight guns.

If Bayonetta can be toned down to that extreme of a degree why can't Master Chief or Doom Slayer. This is just cherry picking because you don't want the character. Stop that.

I'd arguehonestly and he's 1st party.

An genocidal, sadistic, cunning, destructive space dragon that burned and ate/parents alive and mocking her about it.

If that isn't violent I don't know what is...

 

[osby]

I'd arguehonestly and he's 1st party.

An genocidal, sadistic, cunning, destructive space dragon that burned and ate/parents alive and mocking her about it.

If that isn't violent I don't know what is...

Yeah, that's dark but I don't think it's a great comparison. As far as I know, Ridley never caused Metroid to earn a mature rating due to graphical violence since you never see those on-screen.

 

[Brindor]

Jesus Christ I can't take these Smash Bros DLC withdrawal symptoms anymore, I need to KNOW NOW ALREADY SAKURAI

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Jesus Christ I can't take these Smash Bros DLC withdrawal symptoms anymore, I need to KNOW NOW ALREADY SAKURAI

You better hope this week then for the sake of your mental well being.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Pushdustin tweeted this out

Fighter Pass 2 is finally on sale!
No new information on the card, and the design is the same as the first pass. Kind of disappointing.

The ad won't change until April 5th BTW. pic.twitter.com/0KVj09gEgj

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) March 22, 2020

Well that's something.

Though unless Mr. Sakruai recorded a showcase already we might not have a solid release date for the first character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ridley's entirely based around violence and is as toned down as you can get while still capturing his extremity pretty well. That alone is why someone like Scorpion can work. Extreme violence is basically toned down into "a heavy hit that causes the opponent clear visible pain and has a massive impact". A lot of Smash attacks can do that too, but Ridley emphasizes this a lot more. Of course, Ganondorf did this too, as part of his murderous design. I forget where, but Ganondorf is described as murderous in a trophy or one of Sakurai's descriptions? Albeit, it refers to the TP version. He doesn't have the same presence in his OOT form, which while still clearly intimidating, has a bit less darkness to it.

As for Toasty, that's another good option. A cutscene brutality is one that came to mind for Scorpion as well. Ending with an uppercut that sends 'em flying quite high(often ending in a Star KO). Obviously it wouldn't if on Stamina, which would be the most fun way to do it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well that's something.

Though unless Mr. Sakruai recorded a showcase already we might not have a solid release date for the first character.

They could just Joker/Terry style tease the next character in the general direct

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think if the PTSD having soldier and the sexy witch who takes off her clothes to kill angels could get in Smash, that means the green shooty spacemen, the yellow firebreathing Kung Fu skeleton, the murderous sword-masturbating otaku, and more are all safe.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ridley's entirely based around violence and is as toned down as you can get while still capturing his extremity pretty well. That alone is why someone like Scorpion can work. Extreme violence is basically toned down into "a heavy hit that causes the opponent clear visible pain and has a massive impact". A lot of Smash attacks can do that too, but Ridley emphasizes this a lot more. Of course, Ganondorf did this too, as part of his murderous design. I forget where, but Ganondorf is described as murderous in a trophy or one of Sakurai's descriptions? Albeit, it refers to the TP version. He doesn't have the same presence in his OOT form, which while still clearly intimidating, has a bit less darkness to it.

As for Toasty, that's another good option. A cutscene brutality is one that came to mind for Scorpion as well. Ending with an uppercut that sends 'em flying quite high(often ending in a Star KO). Obviously it wouldn't if on Stamina, which would be the most fun way to do it.

And even if all that fails, Subzero can arguably have an even easier time being translated to Smash. His ice attacks freeze and impale - both things that can be done in Smash without any blood.

Then there's the idea of using a Friendship as a Final Smash... given the context of MK and the origins of the ESRB, I think it could be interesting if done right.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And even if all that fails, Subzero can arguably have an even easier time being translated to Smash. His ice attacks freeze and impale - both things that can be done in Smash without any blood.

Then there's the idea of using a Friendship as a Final Smash... given the context of MK and the origins of the ESRB, I think it could be interesting if done right.

Honestly, they're both extremely easy to add either way. Link already showed that swords don't need to be bloody, as well as the original Hookshot is pretty much how the Spear can work. The original Spear is actually less ridiculous than the movie versions too. In the movies, it comes out of his hand. In the games, it originally was designed where he threw a Spear on a rope, which is a great interpretation that's accurate enough(also, the cartoon went with that).

Sub-Zero being ice is still nice, as we have few ice users. But he can't even share the cover with Scorpion anymore, though Injustice shows that it doesn't have to always be Scorpion, but it looks like the fire ninja is treated as "first bill" too at some points for guest crossovers. It could go either way, though. They're both extremely iconic either way and would represent the franchise well. That said, didn't Ed Boon only talk about Scorpion being in Smash or reply in particular to that bit?(not that it'd matter since Nintendo is choosing it) So it may suggest he thinks Scorpion is the more logical one.

Friendships I'd use for taunts/victory screens. Also, now I want a spirit of Kane-O's as one of the joke ones. Like giving you the Curry ability, or giving you a boost when you eat food, or something. I loved those silly things they had in older games. Though it's harder to translate Cooking With Scorpion into a Spirit in comparison...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wonder how you'd incorporate Fatalities into Super Smash Bros. I don't mean the toning down part, but the general mechanic. In Mortal Kombat, Fatalities are only available to you after you win right? But in Super Smash Bros., the game immediately cuts to the win screen. I see three main ways of rectifying this:

1. Fatalities are the win screen.
2. If you place the opponent in a stun state (like after a shield break), you can perform a Fatality using a traditional input. Landing a Fatality is an instant kill.
3. If the opponent has high damage, the player will be prompted to "FINISH THEM!", signifying that the player can now input a Fatality. Landing a Fatality is an instant kill.

Come to think of it, Killer Instinct has something like this as well by encouraging you to combo the opponent to style on them even though they're already dead. I wonder how you'd implement that...

 

[3BitSaurus]

Honestly, they're both extremely easy to add either way. Link already showed that swords don't need to be bloody, as well as the original Hookshot is pretty much how the Spear can work. The original Spear is actually less ridiculous than the movie versions too. In the movies, it comes out of his hand. In the games, it originally was designed where he threw a Spear on a rope, which is a great interpretation that's accurate enough(also, the cartoon went with that).

Sub-Zero being ice is still nice, as we have few ice users. But he can't even share the cover with Scorpion anymore, though Injustice shows that it doesn't have to always be Scorpion, but it looks like the fire ninja is treated as "first bill" too at some points for guest crossovers. It could go either way, though. They're both extremely iconic either way and would represent the franchise well. That said, didn't Ed Boon only talk about Scorpion being in Smash or reply in particular to that bit?(not that it'd matter since Nintendo is choosing it) So it may suggest he thinks Scorpion is the more logical one.

Friendships I'd use for taunts/victory screens. Also, now I want a spirit of Kane-O's as one of the joke ones. Like giving you the Curry ability, or giving you a boost when you eat food, or something. I loved those silly things they had in older games. Though it's harder to translate Cooking With Scorpion into a Spirit in comparison...

Maybe. Perhaps you get a short regular "attack-type" special in the beginning of the FS, then "FINISH HIM" appears, with your opponents paralyzed and a slightly different FS cinematic plays depending on your input. Kinda similar to Bayo's FS works. Dunno, just putting it out there.

For taunts, yeah, I agree that "buy a Scorpion/Subzero doll!" definitely fits better for one.

Also...

ice is still nice.

Intentional or not, this made me laugh more than it should have.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Like giving you the Curry ability...

I just realized something. If Scorpion gets in Smash then...

Scorpion: *is a literal flaming skeleton that spits demonic fire out of his mouth*
Also Scorpion: "AAAAHH! THIS CURRY IS TOO SPICYYYY!!!"

 

[Guynamednelson]

I just realized something. If Scorpion gets in Smash then...

Scorpion: *is a literal flaming skeleton that spits demonic fire out of his mouth*
Also Scorpion: "AAAAHH! THIS CURRY IS TOO SPICYYYY!!!"

Wouldn't be the first time a firebreather panics over the curry.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I just realized something. If Scorpion gets in Smash then...

Scorpion: *is a literal flaming skeleton that spits demonic fire out of his mouth*
Also Scorpion: "AAAAHH! THIS CURRY IS TOO SPICYYYY!!!"

Pffffffft. I'd love that.

Maybe. Perhaps you get a short regular "attack-type" special in the beginning of the FS, then "FINISH HIM" appears, with your opponents paralyzed and a slightly different FS cinematic plays depending on your input. Kinda similar to Bayo's FS works. Dunno, just putting it out there.

For taunts, yeah, I agree that "buy a Scorpion/Subzero doll!" definitely fits better for one.

I imagine if they want to use them, they'll find some unique way. I like some of the ideas noted. Maybe if the opponent hits at least 100% you could do so, but they're not like normal Final Smashes. Otherwise, having two FS' like Ryu does could work too. I'd still stick with the 100% to indicate that they're "ready to be finished off".

My thought is if you input the command, you get the "Finish him!"(or "Finish her!". Not sure what they'd do for those without clarified Genders, though, when the target is made clear. "Finish 'em!" maybe?).

Also...



Intentional or not, this made me laugh more than it should have.

Were you expecting a cold reception?

 

[Garteam]

If this drought keeps up, I may have to replace Smash Ultimate speculation with Smash Remix speculation.

Who here Marth gang?

 

[Schnee117]

I wonder how you'd incorporate Fatalities into Super Smash Bros. I don't mean the toning down part, but the general mechanic. In Mortal Kombat, Fatalities are only available to you after you win right? But in Super Smash Bros., the game immediately cuts to the win screen. I see three main ways of rectifying this:

1. Fatalities are the win screen.
2. If you place the opponent in a stun state (like after a shield break), you can perform a Fatality using a traditional input. Landing a Fatality is an instant kill.
3. If the opponent has high damage, the player will be prompted to "FINISH THEM!", signifying that the player can now input a Fatality. Landing a Fatality is an instant kill.

Come to think of it, Killer Instinct has something like this as well by encouraging you to combo the opponent to style on them even though they're already dead. I wonder how you'd implement that...

The general idea is just have them as a final smash in the vein of Zelda and Bayonetta's where it's an insta KO if the damage goes above 100% and then I guess you could do something similar to Joker's where the win screen is different if it's the final stock.

 

[chocolatejr9]

If this drought keeps up, I may have to replace Smash Ultimate speculation with Smash Remix speculation.

Who here Marth gang?

What's Smash Remix?

 

[Garteam]

What's Smash Remix?

It's a mod for Smash 64 that adds new characters and stages. Previously, they've only had success creating clone characters like Ganondorf and Dr. Mario, but they've recently created a character that's 90% unique in the form of Wario.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My thought is if you input the command, you get the "Finish him!"(or "Finish her!". Not sure what they'd do for those without clarified Genders, though, when the target is made clear. "Finish 'em!" maybe?).

It'd probably be something like:

Spoiler: Using all the emoticons

Him: (SoPo)

Her:(female)(SoNa)(Spiky Eared)(heart tailed)

Them:(together)

It:

Or they'd just use "them" as a blanket term.

 

[StarBot]

Someone says something:
Someone respectfully disagree:
This thread every ****ing time:

Can we simply end the _____ debate?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I wonder how you'd incorporate Fatalities into Super Smash Bros. I don't mean the toning down part, but the general mechanic. In Mortal Kombat, Fatalities are only available to you after you win right? But in Super Smash Bros., the game immediately cuts to the win screen. I see three main ways of rectifying this:

1. Fatalities are the win screen.
2. If you place the opponent in a stun state (like after a shield break), you can perform a Fatality using a traditional input. Landing a Fatality is an instant kill.
3. If the opponent has high damage, the player will be prompted to "FINISH THEM!", signifying that the player can now input a Fatality. Landing a Fatality is an instant kill.

Come to think of it, Killer Instinct has something like this as well by encouraging you to combo the opponent to style on them even though they're already dead. I wonder how you'd implement that...

I got an idea, if you break an opponents shield and make them dizzy, you can perform a fatality. In Scorpion's case he can do his iconic toasty fatality which does an instant KO on an opponent.

Or it could happen at kill percent on the opponent's last life where instead of being launched, the opponent will fly up like they got their shield broken and go into a dizzy state to allow you to finish them off there.

But then you're left with the question of what his Final Smash could be? Maybe a child friendly version of his Chain Reaction fatality from Mortal Kombat 11?

 

[osby]

Someone says something:
Someone respectfully disagree:
This thread every ****ing time:

If we're talking about this particular scenario, it was less "respectfully disagreeing" and more "making the same uninformed points over and over while refusing to acknowledge the other side's counterarguments".

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It's a mod for Smash 64 that adds new characters and stages. Previously, they've only had success creating clone characters like Ganondorf and Dr. Mario, but they've recently created a character that's 90% unique in the form of Wario.

You see Project+? It's a build based off of unfinished Project M stuff, rebalanced, and has a TON of stuff added from Legacy TE.

The game just jaw dropping.

 

[PeridotGX]

It's a mod for Smash 64 that adds new characters and stages. Previously, they've only had success creating clone characters like Ganondorf and Dr. Mario, but they've recently created a character that's 90% unique in the form of Wario.

So there are six slots left, and they have to be at least partially based on a character on the Smash 64 roster. If I had to guess...

Pichu - . The only actual clone left, he seems inevitable.
Marth - . He's one of the most essential characters that isn't there yet.
Chrom/Roy - Marth. You might as well make another clone using one of the most famous templates on the roster.
Villager - . It'd be interesting to see how you would go about "downgrading" such a modern character.
Banjo - . He was designed to have a simple, old-fashined moveset. It'd be interesting seeing how it would feel in an actual old Smash.
Crash - . I can't imagine they'll go without a single newcomer, and the most interesting guest for a N64 game is a character from the PS1. Could also be Cloud () I guess.