Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I remember back during before the July smash direct last year, there were so many fake smash leaks. Eventually they had to put gimmicks for attention, things like having vague code names for characters or the leaks being presented in crossword puzzle form.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

While he didn't get it 100% right, I appreciate that Tansut managed to leak a character straight off the bat (at the possible expense of his source), and cut out the crap he did last time for 4. He already had proved his mettle. Riddles just waste people's time if it's not shortly before a character's news.

 

[Vycoul]

This Mr. H guy doesn't deserve our time IMO. He's clearly just yanking chains. The details he called about Hero aren't particularly impressive.
I'm not going to be one of those people who acts like everything is obvious without realizing hindsight is 20/20. But this guys claim to fame is just "DQ character with all male alts." That's hardly outside the realm of lucky guesses. It seems some of you find this fun, and that's fine. But engaging with attention-seeking trolls is hardly my idea of a good time,

---

What I think deserves more speculation is the Waluigi & Undertale leak. We now have Papagenos himself confirming that he had heard of this line up, (not the DM itself mind you) coming from the same person weeks in advance. This needs a lot more digging.

Source and Source

Did Paragon get two lucky guesses and decide to run with a crazy troll?

Were his DMs edited? Maybe the stuff after BotW 2 was added to the DM by a troll? Notice that at the beginning of the DM, he says that character line up image is to "point" people to the right characters. I don't think showing the whole roster is merely "pointing."

 

[Wunderwaft]

In terms of leaks I don't think we'll see anything substantial until at least Hero gets released. Right now is free speculation time with no theories or leaks to steer how speculation discussion goes. If you have a character you want to see in the fighters pass and think they have a good shot then speak up, because I guarantee you that once legitimate leaks start dropping we won't have this luxury again.

 

[Robdelia]

What I think deserves more speculation is the Waluigi & Undertale leak. We now have Papagenos himself confirming that he had heard of this line up, coming from the same person weeks in advance. This needs a lot more digging.

Source and Source

Did Paragon get two lucky guesses and decide to run with a crazy troll?

Were his DMs edited? Maybe the stuff after BotW 2 was added to the DM by a troll? Notice that at the beginning of the DM, he says that character line up image is to "steer" people to the right characters. I don't think showing the whole roster is merely "steering."

I think Waluigi is 100% going to happen eventually (be it a new game or a second wave of DLC), but I just don't see him on this Fighter's Pass. He is arguably the one major 1st-party rep that can stand toe-to-toe with someone like Joker or Banjo in terms of hype, but I'm starting to think all the Fighter's Pass is 3rd-party.
Undertale I can definitely see getting in this DLC and I hope it does.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm to blame for bringing that guy up again. I thought what he said recently with the throwing weapon thing would at least be something to talk about but in actuality it's just him unnecessary exposure, so I apologize for that.

Doomslayer - not my cup of tea
Crash - for season 1 at least. If Season 2 happens I’m all for him, but I have characters I want to ensure are in first before then
Ryu Hayabusa - honestly never cared for Ninja Gaiden
Nightmare - i’d rather have a Tales Of Character or KOS-MOS

Funny enough, Ryu Hayabusa and Nightmare are the 2 characters I really want in Smash and pinned them down as the last 2 Fighter Packs. Doom Slayer would be fine, but I couldn't care less about Crash.

 

[dezeray112]

What would everyone's most disappointing likely characters be for the last two characters?

Not a character who would be disappointing to everyone like if we got Pepsiman or something stupid. But someone like Doomslayer or Leon that you know is big but not your cup of tea.

That is a good question, as I have stated earlier I've already got the three characters that I pretty much wanted for the pass. I do know that whoever the two remaining characters are, they may or may not be able to top Banjo-Kazooie, but we will find out eventually.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What I think deserves more speculation is the Waluigi & Undertale leak. We now have Papagenos himself confirming that he had heard of this line up, (not the DM itself mind you) coming from the same person weeks in advance. This needs a lot more digging.

Source and Source

Did Paragon get two lucky guesses and decide to run with a crazy troll?

Were his DMs edited? Maybe the stuff after BotW 2 was added to the DM by a troll? Notice that at the beginning of the DM, he says that character line up image is to "point" people to the right characters. I don't think showing the whole roster is merely "pointing."

The idea that Frisk/Sans and Waluigi are the last two characters seems a bit weird to me. I wouldn't hate it, but it does seem like such a step down in terms of caliber from Banjo & Kazooie, Hero, and Joker. But I'm sure I wouldn't know.

I'd also like to see some Cave Story representation before the rest. Dunno why.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I think Waluigi is 100% going to happen eventually (be it a new game or a second wave of DLC), but I just don't see him on this Fighter's Pass. He is arguably the one major 1st-party rep that can stand toe-to-toe with someone like Joker or Banjo in terms of hype, but I'm starting to think all the Fighter's Pass is 3rd-party.

Exactly my thoughts as well. I believe Waluigi will get in Smash but not right now, especially since the fighters pass is probably gonna be all third parties. There are hardly that many first party characters that can rival him in popularity and hype, and I think Nintendo is saving him to be one of the big hitters of the next game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

What's much more worthy of attention is Nintendo's decision to list the dates for their next E3 conference right after their most recent one just ended.

I don't recall whether they do this every year or not, but it seems pretty peculiar to do this so early, when it won't happen until near the end of next Spring. Smash-related or not, they must be planning something big.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What's much more worthy of attention is Nintendo's decision to list the dates for their next E3 conference right after their most recent one just ended.

I don't recall whether they do this every year or not, but it seems pretty peculiar to do this so early, when it won't happen until near the end of next Spring. Smash-related or not, they must be planning something big.

Whoa whoa what?

Source on this??

 

[TheCJBrine]

What I think deserves more speculation is the Waluigi & Undertale leak. We now have Papagenos himself confirming that he had heard of this line up, (not the DM itself mind you) coming from the same person weeks in advance. This needs a lot more digging.

Source and Source

Did Paragon get two lucky guesses and decide to run with a crazy troll?

Were his DMs edited? Maybe the stuff after BotW 2 was added to the DM by a troll? Notice that at the beginning of the DM, he says that character line up image is to "point" people to the right characters. I don't think showing the whole roster is merely "pointing."

I'd prefer Sans & Papyrus over Frisk (they would still be cool, I just favor the skelebros), but this would be pretty great imo. I'm gonna assume he had info and decided to mix it with fake stuff, however, or received misinfo, but I also read he (or someone from PapaGenos's discord server) mentioned having a friend who saw paperwork or something regarding amiibos for Sans and Waluigi (or at least Sans), seeing the papers at a warehouse. Still gonna assume it's likely not true.

Honestly I find it'd be strange to have Waluigi as an assist trophy and a playable character; I think it could happen, but now I'm imagining it and it just seems odd. They could have the assist trophy disabled if someone is playing as Waluigi, of course, but it still seems odd...I guess they'd go with Waluigi being so great, he gets to be a main fighter and a support character. Hopefully this would also open the door to other Assist Trophy characters, like Skull Kid and Isaac.

What's much more worthy of attention is Nintendo's decision to list the dates for their next E3 conference right after their most recent one just ended.

I don't recall whether they do this every year or not, but it seems pretty peculiar to do this so early, when it won't happen until near the end of next Spring. Smash-related or not, they must be planning something big.

My guesses:

1. Halo on Switch
2. Banjo-Redooie
3. Mother Trilogy and Pikmin 4

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In any case, I'm not sure we can take this leak as real just yet, even though we can see Nintendo force Sakurai's hand in pulling the biggest hat trick in Smash history. A double-reveal would kill it pretty quickly, depending on what happens at Fall. If the Waluigi thread's aware of this, they have to hype responsibly.

Also, the game does let you have three s on screen as it is, so...

Whoa whoa what?

Source on this??

Well, maybe not just Nintendo, but it's listed anyway:

https://ca.ign.com/articles/2019/06/13/e3-2020-dates-announced-e3-2019

I'll try to track down the relevant Nintendo Life article.

Edit: Eh, false alarm, I misinterpreted the situation.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...dates_for_e3_2020_have_already_been_confirmed

 

[GoodGrief741]

What's much more worthy of attention is Nintendo's decision to list the dates for their next E3 conference right after their most recent one just ended.

I don't recall whether they do this every year or not, but it seems pretty peculiar to do this so early, when it won't happen until near the end of next Spring. Smash-related or not, they must be planning something big.

I'm calling it now: Nintendo bought the IP for everyone's favorite mascot platformer, Knack!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm calling it now: Nintendo bought the IP for everyone's favorite mascot platformer, Knack!

Ignore my post, I completely misinterpreted the whole situation, it's E3 itself that listed the dates for next year.

 

[A.G.L.]

What would everyone's most disappointing likely characters be for the last two characters?

Not a character who would be disappointing to everyone like if we got Pepsiman or something stupid. But someone like Doomslayer or Leon that you know is big but not your cup of tea.

Waluigi - even though I’m pretty sure this is “leak” is fake

Steve - Just don’t really care for the character

DoomSlayer- To be honest I would rather have Master Chief as to me personally he’s more iconic or at least Dhovakin

Mai- I would rather see Kyo or Terry

 

[Ultomato]

What would everyone's most disappointing likely characters be for the last two characters?

Not a character who would be disappointing to everyone like if we got Pepsiman or something stupid. But someone like Doomslayer or Leon that you know is big but not your cup of tea.

Honestly the Resident Evil characters are Just... Boring to me. I don't want them.

Aside from that most of the speculated characters that remain (I do not like Banjo but it's too late to fix that now) seem pretty cool, at least.
Except Crash.

 

[ES. Dinah]

This Mr. H guy doesn't deserve our time IMO. He's clearly just yanking chains. The details he called about Hero aren't particularly impressive.
I'm not going to be one of those people who acts like everything is obvious without realizing hindsight is 20/20. But this guys claim to fame is just "DQ character with all male alts." That's hardly outside the realm of lucky guesses. It seems some of you find this fun, and that's fine. But engaging with attention-seeking trolls is hardly my idea of a good time,

---

What I think deserves more speculation is the Waluigi & Undertale leak. We now have Papagenos himself confirming that he had heard of this line up, (not the DM itself mind you) coming from the same person weeks in advance. This needs a lot more digging.

Source and Source

Did Paragon get two lucky guesses and decide to run with a crazy troll?

Were his DMs edited? Maybe the stuff after BotW 2 was added to the DM by a troll? Notice that at the beginning of the DM, he says that character line up image is to "point" people to the right characters. I don't think showing the whole roster is merely "pointing."

That one I didn't bring up because it's obviously super fake. It includes Waluigi which is a character already represented by a series. Each dlc character so far has been a entirely new series in the fight pass. Furthermore, he's an AT and Mario already has spirits represented. I really don't see why this is okay for speculation but not the other guy who's track record is much more impressive given DQ hero was first leaked by him with no female alts. Just a reminder but all we had at the time was Vergeben saying he heard of an SE REP. So yeah... I wouldn't call it a "lucky" guess as you claim. This Waluigi and Undertale leak is 100% fake. Also, Paragon claimed he was C & D for attention most likely.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Doomslayer - not my cup of tea
Crash - for season 1 at least. If Season 2 happens I’m all for him, but I have characters I want to ensure are in first before then
Ryu Hayabusa - honestly never cared for Ninja Gaiden
Nightmare - i’d rather have a Tales Of Character or KOS-MOS

though if I get Elma at the bare minimum I will be ok with literally anyone else

It's funny because I literally have not gotten a thing I wanted with this DLC and those characters plus Jill Valentine are literally my top 5.

Waluigi and Frisk would be amongst my least wanted.

What are your feelings on DLC so far?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As far as I know, I think it's only this Fighter Pass that largely focuses on new series that haven't been represented yet (at least until further notice), so we don't know what approach will be taken afterwards if other passes are confirmed.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It's funny because I literally have not gotten a thing I wanted with this DLC and those characters plus Jill Valentine are literally my top 5.

Waluigi and Frisk would be amongst my least wanted.

What are your feelings on DLC so far?

Joker’s cool I guess. Neutral on Banjo-Kazooie but happy for the fans, also neutral on Hero but the new WoL feature his trailer teased looks interesting

My wanted last two are KOS-MOS and Elma. If a season 2 happens, I’d like to also see Neku Sakuraba and either Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell

 

[ramon_zer0]

What would everyone's most disappointing likely characters be for the last two characters?

Not a character who would be disappointing to everyone like if we got Pepsiman or something stupid. But someone like Doomslayer or Leon that you know is big but not your cup of tea.

Not gonna lie, Waluigi/Undertale would be them. Getting both would be the opposite of how I feel the Grinch leak naysayers were back during that last pre-launch Direct in that I would much rather have had different people in those final two slots. (For context, I like Street Fighter and pro wrestling, so Ken and Incineroar were perfect to me).

I personally find them overrated and don't see the appeal of either: I can name a bunch of other Mario characters I like over Waluigi (who honestly feels like a newcomer they should've shown off along with Ridley initially rather than have him be the very first Assist Trophy we see), and having played through Undertale for the first time recently, I found nothing in there that made me think that it deserved the overblown reputation of being one of the greatest games of all time. Part of why I support Mii Costume theory (despite how much that really can't be proven with hard evidence or what not) is that I'm much more excited from the possibilities of seeing a character from Tekken, Tales, Resident Evil, etc. - franchises that I'm much more invested in - get into Smash. Even discarding that, other names thrown around like Ryu Hayabusa and Doomguy sound like more hype choices despite my lack of interest in their respective series.

This shouldn't be twisted as me hating on anyone who wants them. If they get in, I'll be happy for my friends who wanted them in but wouldn't particularly care about either.

What are your feelings on DLC so far?

Don't care about Hero or Banjo, but I can admit that they're cool. Joker was an absolute dream as a long-time Persona fan, and he's by far my favorite newcomer in the roster.

 

[Vycoul]

That one I didn't bring up because it's obviously super fake. It includes Waluigi which is a character already represented by a series. Each dlc character so far has been a entirely new series in the fight pass. Furthermore, he's an AT and Mario already has spirits represented. I really don't see why this is okay for speculation but not the other guy who's track record is much more impressive given DQ hero was first leaked by him with no female alts. Just a reminder but all we had at the time was Vergeben saying he heard of an SE REP. So yeah... I wouldn't call it a "lucky" guess as you claim. This Waluigi and Undertale leak is 100% fake. Also, Paragon claimed he was C & D for attention most likely.

Everyone and their mother were buzzing about a Dragon Quest character. Again, I know hindsight is 20/20, but plenty of people were already hating on Erdrick for being perceived as inevitable.

There is one thing though, did this supposed leaker say that the DQ character's name was going to be Hero?
If that's true, then I guess I was wrong about the chances of that being a lucky guess. They are still acting like most trolls right now though, that is undeniable.

As for the Paragon leak, everyone should try to resist the urge to dismiss it as fake simply because it has Waluigi in it. There are some really strange circumstances around it. I think it calls for more looking into before disregarding it.

 

[A.G.L.]

Thought I’d share Source Gaming’s viewpoint on the Frisk and Waluigi situation. Spazzy seems unconvinced that it’s real.

 

[StrawHatX]

Everyone and their mother were buzzing about a Dragon Quest character. Again, I know hindsight is 20/20, but plenty of people were already hating on Erdrick for being perceived as inevitable.

There is one thing though, did this supposed leaker say that the DQ character's name was going to be Hero?
If that's true, then I guess I was wrong about the chances of that being a lucky guess. They are still acting like most trolls right now though, that is undeniable.

As for the Paragon leak, everyone should try to resist the urge to dismiss it as fake simply because it has Waluigi in it. There are some really strange circumstances around it. I think it calls for more looking into before disregarding it.

The only reason I find the Paragon leak difficult to believe is because it uses Nintendo’s E3 presentation as a basis. Mainly naming BotW2. Not because of Waluigi.

The LoZ18 situation was the same thing if I remember correctly. Guy used E3 to back up his claims and it turned out to be a bunch of BS.

It’s not impossible the guy somehow found out about BotW2 and is now using that to throw character names out there to get people talking.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Remember when people thought the 5chan leak was plausible simply because it had Joker, Mementos, and Erdrick/Luminary in it? Fun times.

 

[merchantofsalt]

Oh man what if it's 2B and NieR: Automata is coming to the Switch?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

While I don't buy the Frisk/Waluigi leak, I still think there's much more credibility to it than that Mr. H guy. For one, it seemingly had E3 right down to exact details about the Hero character whereas Mr. H only knew that there would be a DQ character with male alts. That and Mr. H is obviously sending us on a goose chase for information.

Again, I think it's fake but definitely worth some digging. I'm glad we have something else to talk about besides Mr. H now.

 

[Vycoul]

The only reason I find the Paragon leak difficult to believe is because it uses Nintendo’s E3 presentation as a basis. Mainly naming BotW2. Not because of Waluigi.
The LoZ18 situation was the same thing if I remember correctly. Guy used E3 to back up his claims and it turned out to be a bunch of BS.
It’s not impossible the guy somehow found out about BotW2 and is now using that to throw character names out there to get people talking.

I considered that too. But you have Papagenos himself backing up the claim that this roster (Not the DM with all the E3 info mind you) was told to him by the same guy, Paragon, weeks before E3.

So, either:
Paragon guessed Luminary and Banjo right weeks in advance, and saw his chance to go crazy with trolling. Fabricating this DM message after E3.

The DM is only partially real, and the bit about Frisk and Waluigi absolutely being confirmed was edited into a genuine DM from Paragon.

It's all BS which has to mean that Papagenos is in on it, and is purposefully tanking his credibility right after winning back goodwill in the eyes of some after Banjo's reveal.

Or... it's real.

Are there any other possible scenarios that I'm missing? I really want to dig deep on this.

 

[ramon_zer0]

I considered that too. But you have Papagenos himself backing up the claim that this roster (Not the DM with all the E3 info mind you) was told to him by the same guy, Paragon, weeks before E3.

So, either:
Paragon got Luminary, and Banjo right, and saw his chance to go crazy with trolling. Fabricating this DM message after E3.

It's all BS which has to mean that Papagenos is in on it, and is purposefully tanking his credibility right after winning back goodwill in the eyes of some after Banjo's reveal.

Or... it's real.

Are there any other possible scenarios that I'm missing? I really want to dig deep on this.

I don't see how "tanking his cred" helps him. Don't see why any reasonable person would.

 

[Vycoul]

I don't see how "tanking his cred" helps him. Don't see why any reasonable person would.

I didn't mean to imply that it would help him at all.

 

[Sari]

The Waluigi/Frisk thing seems way too on the nose with the E3 news to be true. They probably just wrote that up on Discord after the E3 Direct then changed the dates to make it seem like they said it earlier.

Thought I’d share Source Gaming’s viewpoint on the Frisk and Waluigi situation. Spazzy seems unconvinced that it’s real.

Off topic but even with the Mr. H stuff being nothing but baloney, it's nice to see Mai get brought up in Smash speculation.

Oh man what if it's 2B and NieR: Automata is coming to the Switch?

Sadly she's been deconfirmed by SE producer Yosuke Saito.

 

[KingBroly]

EDIT: Wrong thread

 

[Aurora Jenny]

Brain wants to see where this goes. Ignoring rumors and leaks at the moment.... Or just ignore this post
Can someone put together a list of unused genres or still-viable ones and the most likely candidates for each? Any character is a go, but if you declare them out of the running, give a reasonable explanation why and so forth.
Ex.
1. FPS
A) Master Chief
B) Doom Slayer/Doomguy
C) B.J. Blastovitch (spelling?)
D) Gordon Freeman
2. Team / Battle Royale
A) Heavy
B) Tracer
C) Fortnite Rep
Puzzle
A)Arle Nadja

.... Yeah, I think you get the idea, feel free to add on.. I think maybe discussing it out, we can get a better idea of what to look for..?

 

[3BitSaurus]

What would everyone's most disappointing likely characters be for the last two characters?

Not a character who would be disappointing to everyone like if we got Pepsiman or something stupid. But someone like Doomslayer or Leon that you know is big but not your cup of tea.

Frankly, I think the only two franchises I'd rather don't see are Silent Hill and Undertale. For the same reason in both cases, despite having played both (and being a huge fan of the latter): combat is not only not the focus, but it can be said it is flat out disencouraged. I think having characters from these franchises in a fighting game kinda... breaks the things their series are known for.

But that's just my opinion, obviously.

What are your feelings on DLC so far?

The Fighters Pass is already worth its price for me. One nice surprise (or last surprise) in Joker, a character that I'm neutral on, but whose series I've grown to respect in Hero and my most wanted in Banjo.

Of course i'm still rooting for a few contenders, but... from this point on, everything is a bonus to me.

 

[A.G.L.]

Wasn’t there a rumor for the longest time that a GrandBlue character would make it into Smash? And isn’t the main fighter Katalina who is a fighter character heavily speculated for awhile?

Spoiler

 

[KingBroly]

Oh no...I remember that rumor.

Why did you have to dig that up?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wasn’t there a rumor for the longest time that a GrandBlue character would make it into Smash? And isn’t the main fighter Katalina who is a fighter character heavily speculated for awhile?

View attachment 228444

Katalina doesn’t use projectiles though iirc

And I think the person who leaked her also said Steve, and well...

 

[Sari]

Wasn’t there a rumor for the longest time that a GrandBlue character would make it into Smash? And isn’t the main fighter Katalina who is a fighter character heavily speculated for awhile?

That was at the start of DLC speculation (before Joker's announcement) and IIRC the person behind it came forward and said they just made it up.

Brain wants to see where this goes. Ignoring rumors and leaks at the moment.... Or just ignore this post
Can someone put together a list of unused genres or still-viable ones and the most likely candidates for each? Any character is a go, but if you declare them out of the running, give a reasonable explanation why and so forth.
Ex.
1. FPS
A) Master Chief
B) Doom Slayer/Doomguy
C) B.J. Blastovitch (spelling?)
D) Gordon Freeman
2. Team / Battle Royale
A) Heavy
B) Tracer
C) Fortnite Rep
Puzzle
A)Arle Nadja

.... Yeah, I think you get the idea, feel free to add on.. I think maybe discussing it out, we can get a better idea of what to look for..?

MMO, specifically someone from World of Warcraft. It probably won't ever happen though.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Wasn’t there a rumor for the longest time that a GrandBlue character would make it into Smash? And isn’t the main fighter Katalina who is a fighter character heavily speculated for awhile?

View attachment 228444

This was coming form the same leaker who was adamant Steve would be in the game so take that as you will. Maybe Steve still has a shot but it seems more unlikely now.

Also he went back on Katalina and said that whatever promotional talks involving her that he heard about were not related to Smash.