Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

potential Smash characters from games you enjoy like idk, from the last 5 games you played

Jessica from Dragon Quest 8
Terry from Dragon Quest 6
Sagat from Street Fighter 2/Alpha
Hero from Dragon Quest 5
Landsknecht from EO 4

Enjoy your Dragon Quest pack, y'all

 

[clearandsweet]

Man I wish I loved repitition as much as ypu guys you love talking about hating Fire Emblem instead of potential Smash characters from games you enjoy like idk, from the last 5 games you played

Witch (Dungeon Fighter Online)
Alicia Melchiott (Valkyria Chronicles 4)
Halloween L'Arachel (Fire Emblem Heroes)
Valkyrie/Hera (Puzzle and Dragons)
Sirfetch'd (Pokemon Sword and Shield)

Man, I would _love_ a primarily PC-based character, maybe from Blizzard. Or a mobile game rep. Just something completely off the radar from what we here think.

 

[blackghost]

1. You compare the amount Fire Emblem to amount of Mario and Pokemon but there's a huge difference, and that's the Fighters themselves. Many Fire Emblem characters not only look similar but plays similar as well. Many Fire Emblem characters are very similar to each other; Marth & Roy are extremely similar to each other and they also Echo Fighters as well (so you have 4 characters that are clones of one character), majority of them have counters, three of them have charging neutral specials, and a lot of them have the same aesthetics (all use swords and five have blue hair). Meanwhile just about every single Pokemon rep not only look different but plays different. Mario, Peach, Bowser, Rosalina, Bowser Jr, and Piranha Plant all play completely different as well.
2. There are other Nintendo franchises that are bigger than Fire Emblem. Kirby is bigger than Fire Emblem. Zelda is bigger than Fire Emblem.
3. The reason why Chrom was celebrated and Byleth was hated is because people wanted Chrom way back in during Smash 4 (probably around 2012) while Byleth's game was only a few months old when he got added and people weren't really didn't want him. Fire Emblem Awakening revived the series and introduced new people to it, so of course people want to see Chrom gets in. Robin and Lucina was a complete surprise but people totally felt sad for Chrom during that reveal trailer. So when this fan favorite finally got in after the ridicule he received in the last game was a joyous occasion. Meanwhile Three Houses while still being a good game was way too new, and most agree that out of all the characters that are in that game Byleth is extremely dull with barely any emotion. It was clear that Byleth was only include to promote Three Houses seeing how everything was finalized before the game even released, not because people like the game or Byleth. And seeing how ARMS and Rex couldn't get in because their game came out "too late" while Threr Houses released two years after those two games adds more salt to the wounds.
The gimmick doesn't matter, people want to see the character they like in the game. People are perfect fine with a character they like being in as a clone, like Chrom, because they're playable.
I don't know how hard it is to understand that.

1.marth and roy are not echoes. thats smash official not a fan's opinion. they were clones 20 years ago but they are no longer. there arent listed as such on the website.
(all pokemon play differently) lucario was definitely critiqued for having a very similar moveset to mewtwo when he was rleeased. lets not revise history.
2. you named kirby as being bigger than FE thats just no longer the case. the sales numbers and revenue for FE far surpass kirby. FE is both older and more successful now than kirby. only zelda, mario, and pokemon are over FE these days.

 

[snowgolem]

I’m gonna try and argue about stupid things on this site less often. All it does for me is get me more stressed and then tire me out. I’d rather talk about more positive things.
Anyways, people seemed to be about 75% through arguing before I went to bed last night. The fact that you’re still arguing 10+ hours later is crazy to me. I understand we have nothing to talk about but I know someone can come up with something. Seriously, quit arguing about Fire Emblem.

 

[PeridotGX]

2. you named kirby as being bigger than FE thats just no longer the case. the sales numbers and revenue for FE far surpass kirby. FE is both older and more successful now than kirby. only zelda, mario, and pokemon are over FE these days.

This is incorrect. While Three Houses has outsold Star Allies, the difference is almost negligible (.02 million), and the Kirby numbers are older than the FE numbers, so it might have dethroned it at this point. I'd argue they're tied in importance. I'd also argue that both Splatoon and Animal Crossing are far more important than either Kirby or FE.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(all pokemon play differently) lucario was definitely critiqued for having a very similar moveset to mewtwo when he was rleeased. lets not revise history.

True, but I think the reason for this was the similar personality and the fact that they have a chargeable Neutral Special. I don't think this shows that he doesn't play differently to Lucario, just that people wanted Mewtwo back and that Lucario was seen as his replacement.

I mean, you wouldn't argue that Samus or Greninja play similarly to the two of them right?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Man I wish I loved repitition as much as ypu guys you love talking about hating Fire Emblem instead of potential Smash characters from games you enjoy like idk, from the last 5 games you played

1. Thrall (World of Warcraft Classic)
2. Toad (Super Mario Maker 2)
3. Android 21 (Dragon Ball FighterZ... because she's the only actual video game character to pick from)
4. Sandbag (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)
5. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)

Turned out surprisingly alright, Toad and Hayabusa make a lot of sense, and Sandbag would be super funny. Thrall and Android 21 are kinda stupid, but that's about it.

 

[SNEKeater]

I mean besides the clones in there respective series mario characters and pokemon play differently from each other so there isn't as much anger while the a good chunk of the FE crew plays the same

...Maybe I'm missing something, but what you're saying doesn't make much sense because your point with Mario characters is exactly the same for FE reps.
Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth all of them play completely different from each other, and Roy, Lucina and Chrom have more differences in comparison to the character they're based on than clones like Daisy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So what characters are you sure will be getting in?

Only ones I'm certain on are Crash, Ryu Hayabusa and Travis Touchdown.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

This Fire Emblem talk is still going?

Look, I understand people are mad that they got another sword-user that seems to be the equivalent of COVID-19 for them at this point. It’s simply not the same thing to say, “X series has plenty of characters, why don’t THEY get a pick?” It’s actually quite simple.

Marth and Ike are not repeating characters. They have nothing to do with a game like Three Houses. On the flip side, Mario and friends are the same cast for essentially the same games. Mario games always star Mario, Bowser, Peach, and sometimes Luigi.

With Zelda, while each game seems to add a new key character, they’re essentially side characters to the series itself.

Pokémon and Fire Emblem have rotating casts. Each time a new game comes out, there are things/characters included in them that cannot be shown off the same way that Mario or Zelda do with a costume change. Certainly, there’s the added fact that DLC make it more likely for some characters/series to be added.

To compare Fire Emblem, a thriving series that sees new entries and characters every few years, to F-Zero which is a series that is extremely dormant for...2-3 console generations? It’s not nearly the same thing.

It’s more than just “representing” things. It’s business. Adding Fire Emblem goes to the chagrin of the fans, but has the chance to interest some folks in Three Houses if that hadn’t played it.

Though, altogether, I find the Fire Emblem spite exhausting because we’re probably not getting a new Smash game in half a decade at the least. We will have the current Fire Emblem cast until then whether y’all like it or not. It seems more productive (to me), to move on and focus that energy elsewhere. Getting mad or frustrated over it doesn’t make a lot of sense if it’s not going to actually bring about change in the game itself.

I am probably going to come off as rude with this post. I don’t know, I just don’t see why we’re still doing this. What’s actually to gain from beating the dead horse that Sakurai himself has addressed? It isn’t going to change because of continued complaining at this point and it has no bearing on future DLC choices either.

 

[SNEKeater]

So what characters are you sure will be getting in?

Only ones I'm certain on are Crash, Ryu Hayabusa and Travis Touchdown.

Well that already would be 4 of the 6 characters...
I don't feel any character as a lock, the closest thing to that for me is Travis.

 

[blackghost]

True, but I think the reason for this was the similar personality and the fact that they have a chargeable Neutral Special. I don't think this shows that he doesn't play differently to Lucario, just that people wanted Mewtwo back and that Lucario was seen as his replacement.

I mean, you wouldn't argue that Samus or Greninja play similarly to the two of them right?

greninja can't store his neutral special so i wouldnt even consider that.
same neutral special, similar side specials. remember mewtwo in melee didnt even reflect, it was supposed to but didnt. combo starter on uptilt and down tilt. it was s tretch but not unheard of as a complaint.

This is incorrect. While Three Houses has outsold Star Allies, the difference is almost negligible (.02 million), and the Kirby numbers are older than the FE numbers, so it might have dethroned it at this point. I'd argue they're tied in importance. I'd also argue that both Splatoon and Animal Crossing are far more important than either Kirby or FE.

if you are just looking at three houses thats just not correct. fire emblem also has a mobile game that earned 500 million in 2 years. FE is a lot more than the games themselves. kirby star allies was the best selling kirby game ever. Came out two years ago. three houses already passed it and will likely still keep going. splatoon is rising fast but i dont think its yet FE . I dont know enough about animal crossing to know how big it is.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well that already would be 4 of the 6 characters...
I don't feel any character as a lock, the closest thing to that for me is Travis.

Wasn't saying exactly a lock. I meant likely tbh.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

1. Thrall (World of Warcraft Classic)
2. Toad (Super Mario Maker 2)
3. Android 21 (Dragon Ball FighterZ... because she's the only actual video game character to pick from)
4. Sandbag (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)
5. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)

Turned out surprisingly alright, Toad and Hayabusa make a lot of sense, and Sandbag would be super funny. Thrall and Android 21 are kinda stupid, but that's about it.

It's funny that you mention 21 because I recently thought of a dumb idea, Soma Cruz using her gimmick, one of his specials, Soul Steal, is a command grab and like 21's gimmick, the soul you get depends on the characters you land the attack on, so characters associated with firey attacks give him Hellfire, swordusers give him his Valkyrie Soul attack, etc

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If vol 2 is anything like the first pass, there's gonna be a whole lotta wildcards.

I'd say the only character I'm pretty confident in at the moment is Hayabusa.

everything else is way way up in the air.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don’t know that I would say I’m “confident” in any particular characters, but Dante seems to be in a decent spot if you ask me.

Other than that, there are some pretty interesting wild card things we simply can’t know. Will we get more Western characters? Will we get repeating 3rd party companies? Will we get characters from series already in Smash?

There are a lot of things we simply don’t know. The thing I do think we know, is that this wait for information, especially even just that first character, is getting rough, lol.

I assume a Direct will come after Animal Crossing is out. Probably two weeks to go.

 

[CureParfait]

Man I wish I loved repitition as much as ypu guys you love talking about hating Fire Emblem instead of potential Smash characters from games you enjoy like idk, from the last 5 games you played

Lowain (Granblue)
Madolche Puddingcess (Yu Gi Oh Duel Links)
Alcremie (Pokemon Sword/Shield)
Darkrai (Pokken)
Susanoo (Blazblue Cross Tag)

 

[SNEKeater]

It's funny that you mention 21 because I recently thought of a dumb idea, Soma Cruz using her gimmick, one of his specials, Soul Steal, is a command grab and like 21's gimmick, the soul you get depends on the characters you land the attack on, so characters associated with firey attacks give him Hellfire, swordusers give him his Valkyrie Soul attack, etc

I'd rather have Alucard as our next Castlevania rep (not that we're gonna get another one soon) but Soma would be so ****ing cool if he had the soul mechanic from the Sorrow games.
Also, having him would be the closest thing to (Aria of Sorrow spoilers incoming)

Spoiler

play as Dracula

And that's rad.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

since Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem are Nintendo’s biggest franchises.

Fire Emblem shouldn't be in the realm of Mario, Pokemon and Zelda. Kirby is slightly bigger, Splatoon is bigger, Animal Crossing is bigger, even Metroid is arguably bigger in the west.

 

[Cosmic77]

View attachment 265721
Fire Emblem shouldn't be in the realm of Mario, Pokemon and Zelda. Kirby is bigger, Splatoon is bigger, even Metroid is arguably bigger.

Well, you're close.

Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda are giants compared to FE, but those are Nintendo's staple franchises, so that's not a huge surprise.

Animal Crossing and Splatoon are next, and the latter managed to outperform the combined sales of every FE game after only two games.

Kirby is...sort of on the same level, I guess? Though Kirby can pump out a lot of merchandise in Japan that people will buy. I don't know how much more value that adds to its worth, but I'm sure it's a lot.

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 265722
Fire Emblem shouldn't be in the realm of Mario, Pokemon and Zelda. Kirby is slightly bigger, Splatoon is bigger, Animal Crossing is bigger, even Metroid is arguably bigger in the west.

I hate to be that person, but apparently Nintendo themselves consider Fire Emblem to be on par with the big 3.

 

[SNEKeater]

If we're talking only about sales, Zelda isn't in the same level as Mario and Pokémon. Assuming Mario and Pokémon could be considered S tier franchises in term of sales, Zelda would be an A tier franchise.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

even Metroid is arguably bigger.

No.

A series that is Nintendo is still trying to work the defibrillators on is not bigger than a series that is actually doing really well for itself. This is likely to change if Metroid Prime 4 is any good, but for now. No.

 

[Brindor]

Cant believe Metroid Prime 4 has already been forgotten by Nintendo.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

So what characters are you sure will be getting in?

Only ones I'm certain on are Crash, Ryu Hayabusa and Travis Touchdown.

IMO at this point it's too bold to say any characters are a lock. Right now we are 90% in the dark about which characters could or could not be coming. However, in the 10% we are not in the dark about lie:

- A Capcom rep. This wouldn't be unlikely as it is, but the RE spirit event lends to their likelihood. Front runners are Dante or a Monster Hunter rep, who both recently had massively successful installments that propelled them back into the mainstream.

- An Arcsys rep. Similar story to Capcom, though they don't have the precedent of previous representation in Smash. Front runners are the Lee Brothers from Double Dragon (a classic on the NES), Kyoko/Misako from River City Girls (a switch title that got pretty good reception), or Sol Badguy (who is probably ArcSys's most iconic character).

- An Ubisoft rep. We recently got new Ubisoft related content in Smash, in the from of Mii costumes. Travis.

Then into the territory of characters I think are likely, but don't have as much evidence for them as the above:

- Crash. I think whatever was holding Activision back from licensing Crash for Smash went away when they saw the reception for Banjo's reveal.

- A NamCo rep. Ultimate is developed by Bandai Namco, so they may be more willing to license one of their characters for DLC. Front Runners are Nightmare and Heihachi, who are both the posterboys of long-running arena fighters.

Overall, I'm not so sure about who's getting in, but if you were to put a gun to my head and make me spit out six characters, I would say:

Dante (DMC5 more recent than Monster Hunter World, DMC3 just added to switch)
Sol Badguy (Previous fighting game reps were well-recieved, and he definitely has a marketing punch the 'dated' Lee Brothers lack).
Travis Touchdown (NMH3 is coming. If any of these characters is going to be the first character for the pass, it's Travis)
Crash Bandicoot (E3 announcement)
Nightmare (Over Heihachi because I like SOul Calibur and not Tekken, SC mechanics would work better in Smash than Tekken, and Soul Calibur has more of a history with Nintendo and crossovers in general).
A character (possibly one we haven't seen at all yet) from Pokemon, Mario, Metroid Prime 4, or BotW2. (Because Byleth)

 

[Arcanir]

Man I wish I loved repitition as much as ypu guys you love talking about hating Fire Emblem instead of potential Smash characters from games you enjoy like idk, from the last 5 games you played

Pokémon Sword - Toxtricity
Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate - Monster Hunter
Final Fantasy VIII - Squall
Dark Souls Remastered - Chosen Undead
DOS2 - …Lohse? There's no real standout I don't think, so I'll go with her.

greninja can't store his neutral special so i wouldnt even consider that.
same neutral special, similar side specials. remember mewtwo in melee didnt even reflect, it was supposed to but didnt. combo starter on uptilt and down tilt. it was s tretch but not unheard of as a complaint.

It was more then a stretch, it was people looking for any reason to trash a character they didn't like being in over the one they did, so they saw one move being similar and ran with it. There was no good reason for them being called clones, and the fact that the complaint pretty much disappeared completely as soon as both of them were put in should show how silly and steeped in bias it was in retrospect.

 

[Cosmic77]

I hate to be that person, but apparently Nintendo themselves consider Fire Emblem to be on par with the big 3.

Nothing like that was ever said.

The closest comment to that they've ever made was when they said that they consider FE to be one of their major franchises. That doesn't necessarily mean top shelf. I'm sure they consider AC, Splatoon, DK, Kirby, and maybe even a few beneath FE to be "major franchises".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If we're talking only about sales, Zelda isn't in the same level as Mario and Pokémon. Assuming Mario and Pokémon could be considered S tier franchises in term of sales, Zelda would be an A tier franchise.

Zelda sells worse than Fate, therefore Astolfo Bean deserves more representation in Smash than Snot Hat Peter Pan Boy

 

[SKX31]

Zelda sells worse than Fate, therefore Astolfo Bean deserves more representation in Smash than Snot Hat Peter Pan Boy

Knives Out (Chinese mobile Fortnite) does much better in Japan than FE Heroes, therefor Knives Out deserve 10 characters in Smash.

Spoiler: Spoil the spoiler

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Knives Out (Chinese mobile Fortnite) does much better in Japan than FE Heroes, therefor Knives Out deserve 10 characters in Smash.

Spoiler: Spoil the spoiler

Goddammit I was hoping Rian Johnson's Knives Out got in the game instead

 

[PeridotGX]

So what characters are you sure will be getting in?

Only ones I'm certain on are Crash, Ryu Hayabusa and Travis Touchdown.

I'm goin all in on the Grovyle train.

-PMD has no content in the game. This week or last was primetime for a spirit event, but they didn't make one.

-In addition, none of the major character in PMD2 (Skunktank, Dusknoir, Wigglytuff,.etc) have spirits. None of the Pokemon in the Treeko line have spirits, despite trophies being in previous games.

-Now that PMD is relevant again, Game Freak/Spike Chunsoft might want to promote it. People sometimes say "why would they choose PMD over the more successful SWSH?" and that's the thing: PMD needs the promotion, SWSH doesn't.

-This is kinda flimsy, but back in the ballot era, Sceptile was a top request. Grovyle and Sceptile are part of the same evolution line, Sakurai might assume that all the people who supported Sceptile also like Grovyle, making him a popularity pick of sorts.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

So what characters are you sure will be getting in?

Only ones I'm certain on are Crash, Ryu Hayabusa and Travis Touchdown.

None really

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nothing like that was ever said.

The closest comment to that they've ever made was when they said that they consider FE to be one of their major franchises. That doesn't necessarily mean top shelf. I'm sure they consider AC, Splatoon, DK, Kirby, and maybe even a few beneath FE to be "major franchises".

Oh sorry. Must've misread that.

 

[SNEKeater]

No.

A series that is Nintendo is still trying to work the defibrillators on is not bigger than a series that is actually doing really well for itself. This is likely to change if Metroid Prime 4 is any good, but for now. No.

Now there isn't much discussion about this, in the last years FE is bigger and more important than Metroid, and this is coming from someone who adores Metroid.
But that's in term of sales and popularity in the last years. Historically speaking Metroid is probably one of the most influential franchises in the industry. With only that a franchise can 'survive' some years even without new games, and Samus and his franchise are a lot more present in videogame culture than Fire Emblem. Of all the Nintendo franchises people usually asks to come back Metroid was the number one before Prime 4 was announced.

Of course, it helps that Metroid came out outside of Japan back then. Fire Emblem wasn't localized in the west until FE7. We will never know the result at all but if Nintendo had decided to launch the first six Fire Emblem games outside of Japan the awareness and the popularity of FE would be definitely bigger in the west, even before Awakening.

It's obvious that Metroid isn't a S tier franchise for Nintendo from a sales perspective. Metroid is, at best, a B/C tier IP in that regard. But if we speak about quality and influence the IP is a S tier franchise, and I think that even Nintendo knows that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Here's my perception of each of Nintendo's franchises in Smash:

• S:
  • These series are cultural phenomenons even to this day.
• A+:
  • These series have frequent, high profile games.
• A-:
  • These series have infrequent, high profile games.
• B:
  • Beloved series with semi-frequent, low profile games.
• C:
  • The Donkey Kong series has infrequent, high-profile games, and WarioWare has semi-frequent low-profile games. They both have a smaller audience than Kirby though, which is why they're down here (The characters themselves, however, are more popular than this due to their affiliation with the Super Mario series).
• D:
  • These franchises have recent enough games to be considered active, and high enough reception to not be considered a zombie. Their popularity isn't all that high. (The Yoshi series is being judged in a vacuum like the other Super Mario spin-offs.)
• Zombie:
  • StarFox and Metroid are trying to get back on the map after poorly received games. Metroid is on the right track, and could easily jump to A-.
• Dead:
  • These series haven't had a game since before the Wii era.

Two things to note: First, I don't consider lower tier franchises to be worse, just less impactful (or widely notable/relevant) in today's market, or less of a priority to Nintendo. Second, this is my perception so some (or many) things are bound to be inaccurate (and also I've probably missed a series or two).

To be honest, I think the whole series tier argument is used to either to try and justify Byleth, Corrin, and Chrom's inclusion to people who don't want them, or to justify wanting characters from The Legend of Zelda, Kirby, and the like instead. The first application is ineffective, and the second seems kinda meaningless to me, though the reasoning for it is absolutely valid, just not a factual reason as to why Byleth and the gang shouldn't be here.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Since we're talking about comparing the importance of Nintendo's franchises, I want to use this opportunity to remind everybody that some of our beloved Nintendo icons are not completely owned by Nintendo themselves.

The Pokemon ip is owned by The Pokemon Company, which is a joint venture between Nintendo, Gamefreak, and Creatures inc. Nintendo is a partial owner of the Pokemon ip, it does not develop the games and does not even publish the Pokemon games in Japan itself, only does so in overseas territories.

The Kirby ip is co-owned by Nintendo and HAL Labrotory through a joint venture called Warpstar inc.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Since we're talking about comparing the importance of Nintendo's franchises, I want to use this opportunity to remind everybody that some of our beloved Nintendo icons are not completely owned by Nintendo themselves.

The Pokemon ip is owned by The Pokemon Company, which is a joint venture between Nintendo, Gamefreak, and Creatures inc. Nintendo is a partial owner of the Pokemon ip, it does not develop the games and does not even publish the Pokemon games in Japan itself, only does so in overseas territories.

The Kirby ip is co-owned by Nintendo and HAL Labrotory through a joint venture called Warpstar inc.

Well, on a somewhat similar topic, how would you guys feel about Nintendo buying other studios? Not that they need to, of course, but I feel like some of their affiliates could potentially benefit from full support. Keyword: potentially (I don't exactly know how it works).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So what characters are you sure will be getting in?

Only ones I'm certain on are Crash, Ryu Hayabusa and Travis Touchdown.

There is no other character I'm sure is getting in more than...

SGT. CORTEZ! Time to Split!

Well, on a somewhat similar topic, how would you guys feel about Nintendo buying other studios? Not that they need to, of course, but I feel like some of their affiliates could potentially benefit from full support. Keyword: potentially (I don't exactly know how it works).

Nintendo should buy Playtonic so they can work on Donkey Kong Country again.

 

[Megadoomer]

Man I wish I loved repitition as much as ypu guys you love talking about hating Fire Emblem instead of potential Smash characters from games you enjoy like idk, from the last 5 games you played

Persona 4: Yu Narukami (though I'm not far into the game, so maybe there are more interesting options than the main character - I've only beaten the first dungeon, and I was tempted to put Chie here instead)

A Hat in Time: Hat Kid

Doom 2: Doomguy

River City Girls: Kyoko (with Misako as an alternate costume, like Olimar and Alph?)

Nier Automata: 2B

I'd be fine with that line-up. (though since they're all from games that I've played and games that I'm currently enjoying, of course I'd say that)

 

[wynn728]

1.marth and roy are not echoes. thats smash official not a fan's opinion. they were clones 20 years ago but they are no longer. there arent listed as such on the website.
(all pokemon play differently) lucario was definitely critiqued for having a very similar moveset to mewtwo when he was rleeased. lets not revise history.
2. you named kirby as being bigger than FE thats just no longer the case. the sales numbers and revenue for FE far surpass kirby. FE is both older and more successful now than kirby. only zelda, mario, and pokemon are over FE these days.

1. Marth & Roy are still clones of each other. They share the same animation, majority of their attacks are the same, the only real difference is that Marth does extra damage on the tip while Roy does extra damage closer up. And when I reference echoes I'm talking about Lucina & Chrom, so you have 4 character that play extremely similar to one character. Lucario is still way more different when compare to Mewtwo, it was clear Lucario was to replace Mewtwo but there was still variety.
2. Fire Emblem success has only just started a couple of years ago, it was only thriving in Japan and it was doing so bad that Awakening was going to be the last game due to the state of the series. Meanwhile Kirby was a success in the beginning, it has out done Fire Emblem way longer. In fact if you compare all their sale all together Kirby is out performing Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem is certainly back up to being successful instead of dying, but there still other series that are bigger than FE. Hell, Splatoon is bigger than FE seeing how both Splatoon games outsold every FE game.