Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ceterisparibus]

Sakurai clearly did say there are too many FE characters and sword-wielders. Adding the caveat of "I also understand" doesn't change that, he didn't say "I understand the complaints, but I disagree." He said (basically verbatim): "I too understand. There are too many FE characters. And there are also too many sword wielders." Which he then compounded with "but I didn't choose the character". That's not really a necessary defence if you don't believe the complaints. Even the interviewer later remarked at Sakurai's candor.

What I've seen is people try to twist his words to mitigate Sakurai's bluntness. People are literally adding unsaid words to change the context. Even PushDustin originally translated it as "a lot" when what was said was clearly "too many". You really have to take that specific interpretation with a grain of salt considering others who have read the Japanese tell a bit of a different story. Even despite my shaky Japanese I understood the line in question.

Everyone has their own opinions, I mean I agree with the FE part but I don't agree with the swordie part. But I'm not going to try to downplay what was said.

That said, I'm not sure "disdain" is the right word to describe Sakurai's feelings towards those characters. I think that might be reading into it too much. Perhaps it's the case, I mean he really did throw Nintendo under a bus with that last article, but I think he just sees them as overabundant. Even if he does have disdain for them, clearly he still tries to make them enjoyable. So it's not any possible disdain bleeds into the execution.

However, disdain or not, if he does feel like those categories are already replete, it is entirely possible he'll avoid adding more when he can make choices of his own volition.

can you blame him when people throw insults, death threats and treat it like a life-or-death situation when their favorite characters are deconfirmed or most disliked get it? I would not be surprised if Nintendo were ok with it, they're a nameless association where people cannot directly channel their hate to.

this is something that the grinch leak should have enforced but people somehow keep forgetting

 

[Captain Shwampy]

We need Bamco Mii costumes of these guys

 

[shinhed-echi]

So outside everyone’s most wanted characters that got in, if that were the case, what were unexpected additions that you loved but not necessarily wanted?

In my case:

1) Cloud
2) Ryu
3) Pokemon Trainer
4) Pit
5) Terry
6) Duck Hunt
7) Koopaling alt
8) Dark Samus
9) Daisy
10) ROB

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So outside everyone’s most wanted characters that got in, if that were the case, what were unexpected additions that you loved but not necessarily wanted?

Duck Hunt and Piranha Plant from a character standpoint. Terry from a gameplay standpoint.

 

[Cadillac]

So outside everyone’s most wanted characters that got in, if that were the case, what were unexpected additions that you loved but not necessarily wanted?

In my case:

1) Cloud
2) Ryu
3) Pokemon Trainer
4) Pit
5) Terry
6) Duck Hunt
7) Koopaling alt
8) Dark Samus
9) Daisy
10) ROB

Terry, Hero.

 

[TriggerX]

Sol is awesome but Heihachi would be totally different from Ryu and Ken by virtue of Tekken playing completely different from a traditional SF-style fighter. He is also a heavy, heavy hitter and a rushdown fighter. Ryu and Ken use fireballs and bait people into jumping into DP. Completely different strategy.

This is actually part of the reason I just can’t see him translating well into smash. Just seems like he would potentially come off as a heavier, slower, version of Ryu with less range.
Sure he might have more power, but if the trade off is speed and range he seems like he’d be a bit on the lower end as far as fighting character goes. Just doesn’t seem like he could be balanced well.
Most of the slower heavier characters at least have range and power to compensate. But adding additional range to a move set that’s closer to a realistic martial arts/fighting style is difficult. Maybe his lightning could extend the range slightly, but idk. I’d have to see it implemented before I write the character off completely.

But who knows, never thought PAC Man could fight either, so I’d be cool with Heihachi if his gameplay added something worth utilizing.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Okay, here's something that should be fun so long as people respect each other's opinions.

Select six characters for the second pass: three you really want, and three you don't want at all. Using only the knowledge other users have of you, see if they can separate the ones you want from the ones you don't want. You can make it easy or difficult depending on who you choose. If you want to make it hard, pick popular characters you don't want and unpopular characters you do want

Here's mine. Shouldn't be too difficult if you've read a few of my posts. I purposely avoided using many characters from my signature, so don't bother cheating off of that.

Wolf Link and Midna
Geno
Steve
Zacian/Zamazenta
Crash Bandicoot
Sylux

Want: Zacian/Zamazenta, Wolf Link and Midna, Crash Bandicoot.
Don't Want: Geno, Steve, Sylux.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I finally made the tier list that was posted some pages earlier. One thing to notes is that I change the wording of "don't want" for "rather have someone else". This means that I don't really hate those character, but I just love more other character that could basically fit the same criteria. For example, Kat, Sweet tooth and Sir Daniel are in this category because I think Sackboy or others Sony character would make better Sony rep. Also every character that don't appear is because I didn't really know them.

Spoiler

Also note that in every tier they're not in order, because it would have asked me way too much time. If you have any other question you can ask me.

 

[Cosmic77]

Want: Zacian/Zamazenta, Wolf Link and Midna, Crash Bandicoot.
Don't Want: Geno, Steve, Sylux.

Close. Just switch Crash and Steve.

I knew Steve would trick a few people.

 

[Krankees]

I finally made the tier list that was posted some pages earlier. One thing to notes is that I change the wording of "don't want" for "rather have someone else". This means that I don't really hate those character, but I just love more other character that could basically fit the same criteria. For example, Kat, Sweet tooth and Sir Daniel are in this category because I think Sackboy or others Sony character would make better Sony rep. Also every character that don't appear is because I didn't really know them.

Spoiler

View attachment 262829

Also note that in every tier they're not in order, because it would have asked me way too much time. If you have any other question you can ask me.

*Looks at must have*

You have my biased respect.

Also where I can find this tier list thing.

 

[Idon]

Why... why do these tier lists always use young heihachi...

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Tried my hand at that tier generator for Smash requests. Mostly stuck to characters in my signature (at least the ones I could find among those 200), along with honorary mentions that I think should at least be Echo Fighters or Mii Fighter costumes...

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

I finally made the tier list that was posted some pages earlier. One thing to notes is that I change the wording of "don't want" for "rather have someone else". This means that I don't really hate those character, but I just love more other character that could basically fit the same criteria. For example, Kat, Sweet tooth and Sir Daniel are in this category because I think Sackboy or others Sony character would make better Sony rep. Also every character that don't appear is because I didn't really know them.

Spoiler

View attachment 262829

Also note that in every tier they're not in order, because it would have asked me way too much time. If you have any other question you can ask me.

Nice tier list.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

*Looks at must have*

You have my biased respect.

Also where I can find this tier list thing.

Here you go
https://tiermaker.com/create/the-ultimate-potential-smash-dlc-tier-list-12090

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why... why do these tier lists always use young heihachi...

Most likely it's the only option on the specific list maker they're using for Heihachi.

 

[Ben Holt]

"Fear not, for I shall assist ye!"

Spoiler: Your wishlist

View attachment 262600

Spoiler: Your predictions

View attachment 262601

Air guitar Crash is the best Crash render.

 

[snowgolem]

Saw people doing this and it looked fun so I decided to try it out.

Spoiler alert: it wasn’t fun. Wouldn’t recommend it.

 

[Cadillac]

Saw people doing this and it looked fun so I decided to try it out.
View attachment 262842
Spoiler alert: it wasn’t fun. Wouldn’t recommend it.

Sees Saki
I see that you're also a man of culture as well.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

So outside everyone’s most wanted characters that got in, if that were the case, what were unexpected additions that you loved but not necessarily wanted?

In my case:

1) Cloud
2) Ryu
3) Pokemon Trainer
4) Pit
5) Terry
6) Duck Hunt
7) Koopaling alt
8) Dark Samus
9) Daisy
10) ROB

Those are from before I got into speculation/character requests,
-Captain Falcon (I didn't even know of him at the time, but I loved him because falconpunching people is funny and satisfying)
-Bowser (I didn't "want" him but I was happy to see he was playable, and I occasionally played as him for fun)

Those are from after I joined speculation and character requests
-Villager (that spammy moveset is very fun and lately became one of my secondaries)
-Piranha Plant (because it's awesome)

Probably someone else but now I can't remember.

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing that this tier list stuff is all the rage...

You can all kill me now.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

Seeing that this tier list stuff is all the rage...

View attachment 262845


You can all kill me now.

Might as well. Seeing how you put the Cleveland Z Block into "Do not want" makes me furious! I can not tolerate this focused hate only because he might be occasionally awkward to place in Tetris.

 

[Mastermiine]

I'm no Good at photoshop so I sadly can't post my pass but here is my pass in non-visual form.

1. Waluigi
2. Billy Hatcher
3. The Assassin (Ezio, Connor, Altiar, Edward)
4. Big Daddy
5. Kid Naruto / Boruto
6. Shadow

 

[Krankees]

I have my tier list ready but I didn't feel like putting every character in it yet.

Spoiler: Tier List

I'll update it every now and then until it's all the characters are in.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Spoiler: Tier List

I worked on this until I realized that most of the remaining characters would fit into the "Indifferent" category, then I got bored and gave up.
I'm already changing my mind about who fits where. Shovel Knight and Isaac would be in the top tier if they weren't assists.
This was another good reminder that I'm already really satisfied with the roster, and there are very few characters left whose reveal trailers I would jump out of my seat for. The rest basically just range from "Oh, that's really cool!" to "Well, that's neat for fans of that character."
At this point, I'm mainly just curious to see what happens next.

 

[DevaAshera]

Since I've been playing Tales of Berseria after buying it on a whim at the mall, I've really been feeling like Velvet Crowe would be a fun Tales series rep..and, in my opinion, a more interesting pick than Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell considering that she's not really a sword wielder, she does have blades in her gauntlet and boots, but her fighting style is very kick based..which would definitely be new for a sword fighter, she also has a massive demon claw that is contained under her bandages to fight with.
Beyond that, she's a female character, which we do need more of.
Her outfit would need to be censored though to meet ESRB, CERO, and PEGI standards..so I went ahead and did a mock-up of a censored outfit for her pic in this template.
I couldn't find a very good image for a Tales of Berseria Emblem (I know there is that wolf-like symbol..but I couldn't find a good version of it online to edit), so I just used that Save File-style icon that Namco trademarked a bit ago.

(Click for Full Size)

Also had to edit my sig pic to add her in.

 

[SpectreJordan]

So outside everyone’s most wanted characters that got in, if that were the case, what were unexpected additions that you loved but not necessarily wanted?

In my case:

1) Cloud
2) Ryu
3) Pokemon Trainer
4) Pit
5) Terry
6) Duck Hunt
7) Koopaling alt
8) Dark Samus
9) Daisy
10) ROB

Joker
Terry
Duck Hunt

I didn’t see Joker coming at all. Not only was his reveal super hype, but his inclusion really opened the doors to who could get in. Conveniently I bought Persona 5 the week before the reveal. I didn’t play it until last May though, but it’s become one of my favorite games ever. Joker’s really fun to play as too.

I’m a big fighting game fan but I didn’t expect Terry at all. I was fully expecting Heihachi to be the next fighting game character. Terry’s such a cool character & super iconic amongst the FGC. He’s a great pick & a ton of fun to play as. I even like him more than Ryu/Ken despite being more of a Capcom guy than a SNK guy.

I don’t even like playing as Duck Hunt, but it’s a pick that I never saw coming that I think fits in perfectly. They’re easily the best retro character pick. I could see arguments for Game & Watch being a better retro pick, but Duck Hunt is one of THE NES games. Super iconic & super 80s.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well here it is.
Probably the last of these really time consuming games I take part in.

Only ranked the first 2 tiers. The rest are not arranged in any particular order.

 

[Lamperouge]

So outside everyone’s most wanted characters that got in, if that were the case, what were unexpected additions that you loved but not necessarily wanted?

In my case:

1) Cloud
2) Ryu
3) Pokemon Trainer
4) Pit
5) Terry
6) Duck Hunt
7) Koopaling alt
8) Dark Samus
9) Daisy
10) ROB

Shulk and Joker introduced me to some of my favorite games ever and I love how they play in Smash, so they'll likely remain at the top for me.

Honorable mentions include:

• Hero: I've grown an appreciation for the series after his inclusion and I'm attempting to play every mainline entry. Currently have the first three games under my belt and I'm working my way through DQXI S now.
• Duck Hunt: He was a wonderful surprise in Smash 4 and a damn fun retro rep.
• Terry: He's a hype character from fun fighting games who speaks hilarious Engrish; what's not to love about this guy?
• Bayonetta: Her games are really fun but I never expected to see her in Smash.

 

[Cadillac]

I made mine. Didn't put all the characters because I don't know half of them but I tried anyways.
In no particular order:

 

[DMTN]

Here you go.

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

Since I've been playing Tales of Berseria after buying it on a whim at the mall, I've really been feeling like Velvet Crowe would be a fun Tales series rep..and, in my opinion, a more interesting pick than Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell considering that she's not really a sword wielder, she does have blades in her gauntlet and boots, but her fighting style is very kick based..which would definitely be new for a sword fighter, she also has a massive demon claw that is contained under her bandages to fight with.
Beyond that, she's a female character, which we do need more of.
Her outfit would need to be censored though to meet ESRB, CERO, and PEGI standards..so I went ahead and did a mock-up of a censored outfit for her pic in this template.
I couldn't find a very good image for a Tales of Berseria Emblem (I know there is that wolf-like symbol..but I couldn't find a good version of it online to edit), so I just used that Save File-style icon that Namco trademarked a bit ago.
View attachment 262855
(Click for Full Size)

Also had to edit my sig pic to add her in.

That is awesome! And more or less how I would picture her in it.
Although I would make Starry Heavens a Remix and Fighting of the Spirit there. Good idea for the series symbol though with the safe icon.

Also I've seen that template before.

Any way to get a download out of curiosity?

 

[Mamboo07]

Where do I find this tier list thing? Would like to do one.

 

[Phoenixio]

Since people seem to say it takes forever to do the tier list thingy, here's a written one.

For me, top surprise picks that I would rejoice in would be Akira (the main character) from Astral Chain and Travis Touchdown from No More Heroes. They're great games that deserve all the attention, and they've been doing well for the console (Astral Chain just passed the million copies sold).

I'd be excited and happy with more characters from already represented series. I've always felt like Sonic was missing Tails, Knuckles and/or Dr Robotnik. Pit could have used Medusa, Dixie Kong added to Donkey Kong, Waluigi to Wario, Zero to Mega Man, Fiona to Shulk, and so on. I'm happy with the new reps we got, but I feel like it doesn't need to only be new franchises. They don't have to be echo fighters either, they could be close-clones in a lot of cases, like how Falco is different from Foxm and how Roy is now different from Marth.

I'd be okay with additions like Spyro and Crash Bandicoot. They're fairly iconic, had their games with Nintendo, and that'd be an opportunity for a good crossover. Isaac from Golden Sun would be interesting too, but does not have the reach these other two have. The wolf from Okami would be a great addition too due to being quadrupedal. And the advantage of those characters is that they can be cartoony and fit the general Nintendo vibe, unlike the more realistic human characters that have started taking over.

I'm against the addition of Steve, Doomguy, Geno, and a bunch of other mainstream characters in the polls. They just don't fit in. It'll feel like the game has become some weird Flash mod of the game you can find on fishy websites. They don't belong in there quite as well as others. Crash Bandicoot also feels a little like that (I was never a fan of his stiff animations and face), but at least he played his part in Nintendo's history, to some extent.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Where do I find this tier list thing? Would like to do one.

It's here https://tiermaker.com/create/the-ultimate-potential-smash-dlc-tier-list-12090

 

[Dukemon102]

Fiona to Shulk

Shrek confirmed as a party member for Xenoblade's Definitive Edition.

 

[Mamboo07]

Tried out the tier list maker and here's mine:

Spoiler: The List:

 

[Pinguino21v]

I did mine too.

Spoiler: List

Also, it was missing Thrall (Warcraft) that I would put in the fourth tier.

Everything else I didn't mention is between "I don't care" and "I don't want".

 

[PSIGuy]

Nintendo posted a random reminder that Joker is in Smash on Twitter and it nearly gave me a heart attack because I thought it was related to something new when I glance across it at first. Thanks, Twitter PR Guy.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nintendo posted a random reminder that Joker is in Smash on Twitter and it nearly gave me a heart attack because I thought it was related to something new when I glance across it at first. Thanks, Twitter PR Guy.

Someone needs to reply to him a picture of Slowpoke.

 

[Mamboo07]

Someone needs to reply to him a picture of Slowpoke.

Here, have one:

Earthworm Jim: "Here's your Slowpoke, don't feed it rocks like you did with the cat."