Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rikarte]

with fellow Rare characters DK, Diddy Kong and King K. Rool happy to see their old buddies back

Plot twist: The DK crew wasn't celebrating because Banjo was back but because Duck Hunt got freaking annihilated!

Spoiler

I feel people would be more open to other characters if they at least learned just a little bit about them before dumping on them for not being exclusively what they wanted.

Some Smash fans are really against trying new things...

This is why I'd like to see Sakurai continue merging his presentations with the fighter reveals. Getting a little history lesson right after the announcement to give people a general idea why the character was chosen should reduce most of the community's visible confusion. Someone rather niche like Terry would have definitely benefited from this treatment.

 

[Krankees]

Anyone see the third trailer for P5S. I can't wait for it to come out...once it's international release is announced.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Good thing we're getting an article that will (hopefully) better explain things about Fighters Pass 2 on Tuesday.

inb4 it's just something about why we're getting 6 fighters in this pass instead of 5

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone see the third trailer for P5S. I can't wait for it to come out...once it's international release is announced.

I'mma just wait for the finished product and the reviews.

 

[Dinoman96]

So here's a completely baseless observation/pattern that will more than likely be made bunk within the next FP:

It's interesting how the unique newcomer lineups for Ultimate, both base game and DLC, have been evenly divided between 'old' and 'new' characters.

For the base game, we have:

(old legacy characters)
(popular modern characters)

For the first Fighters Pass, we only had five characters so it's not exactly even like the base roster, but...

(basically half new, half old, due to being a composite character of heroes from old and new DQ games)

But now we're back to six characters, so perhaps we'll get three boomers and three zoomers again just like the base roster? Maybe? Probably not, but it'd be neat.

Sakurai actually did somewhat adresss this:

https://www.theouterhaven.net/2020/02/sakurai-talks-bringing-byleth-into-super-smash-bros-ultimate/

“My preferences don’t play a role in which new fighters are added; Nintendo has a larger say in that decision and brings their thoughts to the table. At any rate, the “theme” for this character was the how much freshness they brought to the game. The fighters that we include in Smash Bros. tend to come from series that have histories. For instance, Dragon Quest’s “Hero,” “Banjo & Kazooie,” and Fatal Fury’s Terry Bogard all first appeared around 20 to 30 years ago – I want to include quite a wide breadth of characters. For this fighter, an important factor was being able to turn the protagonist of a game that people are playing right now into a fighter that players could experience immediately in Smash Bros. As such, I tried my hand at working on the character while the source game was still in development.”

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Hmmm

It's probably gonna take a while until we get more Smash information. In the meantime I have a game for everyone to play. Pick a character you don't like or care about that much and write a moveset for them. By the time you finished researching and writing the moveset, do you feel like your opinion on the character has changed?

I'm quite surprised no one has done this yet. Sure I'll give it a go but I'm quite stubborn when it comes to franchises I'm not familiar with.

Since she is the topic in question, I'll go with 2B because I don't care for the series and she is another sword fighter but one thing that I can finally talk about is how her robot companion has an uncanny resemblance to Med Unit 6.



Where does med-unit 6 come from? TimeSplitters Future Perfect! Who else comes from that game... heh heh heeeeeh...

SGT. CORTEZ! TIME TO-

Oh right... I gotta talk about 2B...

Anyways I'll make a Special moveset for her.

Neutral special: Pod Shot - Tap the button to fire a ranged laser shot, hold the button down to lock on to enemies for it to fire multiple missiles.

Side Special: Charge Slash - Hold down the button to charge up a slash that changes depending on the direction you hold (e.g. Diagonally upwards/downwards or straight ahead, controls like dancing blade).
If straight ahead: 2B will throw her sword that will slash horizontally and spin in place in front of her.
If Diagonally upwards: 2B will jump flip and slash around herself.
If Diagonally downwards: 2B will flip slash and then does a forward thrust motion with her sword.

Up Special: Pod lift - 2B grabs onto pod 042 and they fly up into the air but she can swing around on the pod to do a quick horizontal slash to end it early to give her some horizontal distance.

Down Special: Counter/Self Destruct - Like other characters, it counters moves but if she uses it too often, she will self destruct much like Hero. The first time deals 50 damage to her but the next time she will be KO'd, However it will also deal massive damage towards any opponents in proximity of the blast.

Final Smash: YoRHa Flight Unit Type-B - A trapping final smash just like every other DLC character where the flight unit flies toward 2B and any opponent in the way gets pulled into a cinematic final smash where it just shoots a bunch of missiles and then 2B jumps out of it to do a devastating slash through her opponents where they all get sent flying.

Overall I've probably done this really badly but this is as good as I can make it for being really unfamiliar with the series. 2B to me is still kind of boring but she isn't as bad as I initially thought. I wouldn't mind if she got into Smash Ultimate and I think she has a really good chance of being one of the Fighters Pass volume 2 characters.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So here's a completely baseless observation/pattern that will more than likely be made bunk within the next FP:

It's interesting how the unique newcomer lineups for Ultimate, both base game and DLC, have been evenly divided between 'old' and 'new' characters.

For the base game, we have:

(old legacy characters)
(popular modern characters)

For the first Fighters Pass, we only had five characters so it's not exactly even like the base roster, but...

(basically half new, half old, due to being a composite character of heroes from old and new DQ games)

But now we're back to six characters, so perhaps we'll get three boomers and three zoomers again just like the base roster? Maybe? Probably not, but it'd be neat.

Sakurai actually did somewhat adresss this:

https://www.theouterhaven.net/2020/02/sakurai-talks-bringing-byleth-into-super-smash-bros-ultimate/

Let's see...

Old timers: Sora, Phoenix, Heihachi

More recent characters: 2B, Jybanyan, and another Fire emblem character

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So here's a completely baseless observation/pattern that will more than likely be made bunk within the next FP:

It's interesting how the unique newcomer lineups for Ultimate, both base game and DLC, have been evenly divided between 'old' and 'new' characters.

For the base game, we have:

(old legacy characters)
(popular modern characters)

For the first Fighters Pass, we only had five characters so it's not exactly even like the base roster, but...

(basically half new, half old, due to being a composite character of heroes from old and new DQ games)

But now we're back to six characters, so perhaps we'll get three boomers and three zoomers again just like the base roster? Maybe? Probably not, but it'd be neat.

Sakurai actually did somewhat adresss this:

https://www.theouterhaven.net/2020/02/sakurai-talks-bringing-byleth-into-super-smash-bros-ultimate/

Based on my predictions.

Boomers (New): 2B, Travis Touchdown, Ring Fit Adventurer
Zoomers (Old): Crash Bandicoot, Heihachi, Phoenix Wright

 

[Deleted member]

I'm quite surprised no one has done this yet. Sure I'll give it a go but I'm quite stubborn when it comes to franchises I'm not familiar with.

Since she is the topic in question, I'll go with 2B because I don't care for the series and she is another sword fighter but one thing that I can finally talk about is how her robot companion has an uncanny resemblance to Med Unit 6.

View attachment 262383View attachment 262386

Where does med-unit 6 come from? TimeSplitters Future Perfect! Who else comes from that game... heh heh heeeeeh...

SGT. CORTEZ! TIME TO-

View attachment 262385

Oh right... I gotta talk about 2B...

Anyways I'll make a Special moveset for her.

Neutral special: Pod Shot - Tap the button to fire a ranged laser shot, hold the button down to lock on to enemies for it to fire multiple missiles.

Side Special: Charge Slash - Hold down the button to charge up a slash that changes depending on the direction you hold (e.g. Diagonally upwards/downwards or straight ahead, controls like dancing blade).
If straight ahead: 2B will throw her sword that will slash horizontally and spin in place in front of her.
If Diagonally upwards: 2B will jump flip and slash around herself.
If Diagonally downwards: 2B will flip slash and then does a forward thrust motion with her sword.

Up Special: Pod lift - 2B grabs onto pod 042 and they fly up into the air but she can swing around on the pod to do a quick horizontal slash to end it early to give her some horizontal distance.

Down Special: Counter/Self Destruct - Like other characters, it counters moves but if she uses it too often, she will self destruct much like Hero. The first time deals 50 damage to her but the next time she will be KO'd, However it will also deal massive damage towards any opponents in proximity of the blast.

Final Smash: YoRHa Flight Unit Type-B - A trapping final smash just like every other DLC character where the flight unit flies toward 2B and any opponent in the way gets pulled into a cinematic final smash where it just shoots a bunch of missiles and then 2B jumps out of it to do a devastating slash through her opponents where they all get sent flying.

Overall I've probably done this really badly but this is as good as I can make it for being really unfamiliar with the series. 2B to me is still kind of boring but she isn't as bad as I initially thought. I wouldn't mind if she got into Smash Ultimate and I think she has a really good chance of being one of the Fighters Pass volume 2 characters.

I really admire this moveset potential for her and...I admire your dedication to your most wanted character.

 

[blackghost]

Saying Waluigi is "irrelevant" isn't "an opinion," it's a falsehood. You don't get to say blatantly incorrect information and get a free pass by erroneously calling it an opinion.

i think a good many people look at walugi as a side game character that exists to fill a roster spot in sports, racing, and party games. he's the outlier in those games. other characters are enemies, allies, or even playable characters within the mario universe. existing alone doesnt make a character relevant. especially not when you compare him to the legacies of other dlc characters that have gotten in.

Even if Waluigi doesn't bring a new world with him, we're still getting a character that people clearly wanted in Smash.

He'd be worthwhile in that regard.

that some people on this board want? yes. but i dont think he'd be nearly as well reicved by non smash fans outsideof echo chambers. especially as a AT upgrade. If nintendo is gonna do an upgrade i'd place bets on zero, bomberman, or alucard.

 

[Opossum]

i think a good many people look at walugi as a side game character that exists to fill a roster spot in sports, racing, and party games. he's the outlier in those games. other characters are enemies, allies, or even playable characters within the mario universe. existing alone doesnt make a character relevant. especially not when you compare him to the legacies of other dlc characters that have gotten in.



that some people on this board want? yes. but i dont think he'd be nearly as well reicved by non smash fans outsideof echo chambers. especially as a AT upgrade. If nintendo is gonna do an upgrade i'd place bets on zero, bomberman, or alucard.

People still pretend games like Mario Kart don't matter despite them routinely outselling their contemporary platformers, huh.

 

[MooMew64]

Are people really implying Waluigi isn't a relevant or popular Nintendo character? When he's acknowledged by Nintendo several times, is used in their marketing for Mario spin-offs a bunch, and even recently got his own alt in Mario Kart Tour along with other popular Mario characters? My man even had a costume in Mario Odyssey AND Mario Maker.

People out here acting like "He's a no-name spin-off character, those don't count!" when Daisy only ever got a damsel in distress role one time and got in, Piranha Plant is a mook and got in, and people are still asking for Geno.

C'mon, guys. :/

 

[andree123]

So here's a completely baseless observation/pattern that will more than likely be made bunk within the next FP:

It's interesting how the unique newcomer lineups for Ultimate, both base game and DLC, have been evenly divided between 'old' and 'new' characters.

For the base game, we have:

(old legacy characters)
(popular modern characters)

For the first Fighters Pass, we only had five characters so it's not exactly even like the base roster, but...

(basically half new, half old, due to being a composite character of heroes from old and new DQ games)

But now we're back to six characters, so perhaps we'll get three boomers and three zoomers again just like the base roster? Maybe? Probably not, but it'd be neat.

Sakurai actually did somewhat adresss this:

https://www.theouterhaven.net/2020/02/sakurai-talks-bringing-byleth-into-super-smash-bros-ultimate/

So far my predictions that there would be four swordsmen in the fighters pass 2, so...
Old: Isaac, Lloyd Irving, Crash
New: Rex, Euden, Spring man or ring fit adventurer

 

[blackghost]

People still pretend games like Mario Kart don't matter despite them routinely outselling their contemporary platformers, huh.

nobody is pretending that but at the end of the day its MARIO kart. waluigi isnt part of that branding or legacy, nor has he majorly contributed to it. other companies have made superior kart games that don't have the impact because they dont have mario in the title. some people in this board should recognize that modern characters like 2b, Geralt, and other gaming icons have built themselves to the level they are without 40 years of word of mouth or legacy to draw people in.

Are people really implying Waluigi isn't a relevant or popular Nintendo character? When he's acknowledged by Nintendo several times, is used in their marketing for Mario spin-offs a bunch, and even recently got his own alt in Mario Kart Tour along with other popular Mario characters? My man even had a costume in Mario Odyssey AND Mario Maker.

People out here acting like "He's a no-name spin-off character, those don't count!" when Daisy only ever got a damsel in distress role one time and got in, Piranha Plant is a mook and got in, and people are still asking for Geno.

C'mon, guys. :/

first daisy is here on convenience. different animations (on idle at least) but there are no gameplay differences. waluigi doesnt have a body type to be created on as an echo.

popular? i dont really know how you can say waluigi is popular. theres no games to base that off, you are choosing to believe internet noise and polls both of which have reliability issues. getting an alt in a mobile game isnt proving much. mario maker practically everyone got costumes.
PP got in because sakurai loves making at least one weird character per smash game. he was supposed to be base game anyway not dlc.

the idea of waluigi getting in over a character like dante, 2b, sephiroth, ryu, even freaking geno is mind-boggling to me. monetarily, popularity, fan interest, every measure i can think of.

like apreivous post stated he has a presnece more than an impact. bowser jr and baby bowser have appeared in more mainline titles. show up ina role that isnt to race, sport, or play mario party and i'll see a change in his status as a character.

 

[MooMew64]

People still pretend games like Mario Kart don't matter despite them routinely outselling their contemporary platformers, huh.

It's simply continuing the "Waluigi bad" narrative that started with Ultimate's pre-release.

Smash fans in general like to pretend Mario spin-offs don't exist, but they most certainly do, and typically sell pretty dang well. Only ones that struggled in recent memory were Paper Mario Color Splash and both M&L remakes, but that was more due to being on dead hardware rather than it being the games' fault.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I'm quite surprised no one has done this yet. Sure I'll give it a go but I'm quite stubborn when it comes to franchises I'm not familiar with.

Since she is the topic in question, I'll go with 2B because I don't care for the series and she is another sword fighter but one thing that I can finally talk about is how her robot companion has an uncanny resemblance to Med Unit 6.

View attachment 262383View attachment 262386

Where does med-unit 6 come from? TimeSplitters Future Perfect! Who else comes from that game... heh heh heeeeeh...

SGT. CORTEZ! TIME TO-

View attachment 262385

Oh right... I gotta talk about 2B...

Anyways I'll make a Special moveset for her.

Neutral special: Pod Shot - Tap the button to fire a ranged laser shot, hold the button down to lock on to enemies for it to fire multiple missiles.

Side Special: Charge Slash - Hold down the button to charge up a slash that changes depending on the direction you hold (e.g. Diagonally upwards/downwards or straight ahead, controls like dancing blade).
If straight ahead: 2B will throw her sword that will slash horizontally and spin in place in front of her.
If Diagonally upwards: 2B will jump flip and slash around herself.
If Diagonally downwards: 2B will flip slash and then does a forward thrust motion with her sword.

Up Special: Pod lift - 2B grabs onto pod 042 and they fly up into the air but she can swing around on the pod to do a quick horizontal slash to end it early to give her some horizontal distance.

Down Special: Counter/Self Destruct - Like other characters, it counters moves but if she uses it too often, she will self destruct much like Hero. The first time deals 50 damage to her but the next time she will be KO'd, However it will also deal massive damage towards any opponents in proximity of the blast.

Final Smash: YoRHa Flight Unit Type-B - A trapping final smash just like every other DLC character where the flight unit flies toward 2B and any opponent in the way gets pulled into a cinematic final smash where it just shoots a bunch of missiles and then 2B jumps out of it to do a devastating slash through her opponents where they all get sent flying.

Overall I've probably done this really badly but this is as good as I can make it for being really unfamiliar with the series. 2B to me is still kind of boring but she isn't as bad as I initially thought. I wouldn't mind if she got into Smash Ultimate and I think she has a really good chance of being one of the Fighters Pass volume 2 characters.

That down special is both hilarious and brilliant at the same time. I never thought of incorporating the self destruct mechanic into her moveset for Smash until you mentioned it.

 

[3BitSaurus]

nobody is pretending that but at the end of the day its MARIO kart. waluigi isnt part of that branding or legacy, nor has he majorly contributed to it. other companies have made superior kart games that don't have the impact because they dont have mario in the title. some people in this board should recognize that modern characters like 2b, Geralt, and other gaming icons have built themselves to the level they are without 40 years of word of mouth or legacy to draw people in.

Frankly, to the people that want him, it doesn't matter that Waluigi is not a main character. It doesn't matter that he doesn't have his own game. He's been a mainstay in Mario Kart since the Gamecube and Mario Party since the N64, plus the sports games. And the first two are often among Nintendo's top 10 best selling franchises.

Like him or not, Waluigi is, to some level, a mainstay in the Mario series. Has been for some time. And people want him in Smash him because of it. That's all you need, really. Not that different from any other pick in that regard.

Speaking of, his Smash Flash 2 moveset is really interesting. I like how they basically made him a joke character that incorporates really nonsensical stuff, like the Judge-like RNG in his neutral special and the spike in his up aerial.

 

[MooMew64]

nobody is pretending that but at the end of the day its MARIO kart. waluigi isnt part of that branding or legacy, nor has he majorly contributed to it. other companies have made superior kart games that don't have the impact because they dont have mario in the title. some people in this board should recognize that modern characters like 2b, Geralt, and other gaming icons have built themselves to the level they are without 40 years of word of mouth or legacy to draw people in.



first daisy is here on convenience. different animations (on idle at least) but there are no gameplay differences. waluigi doesnt have a body type to be created on as an echo.

popular? i dont really know how you can say waluigi is popular. theres no games to base that off, you are choosing to believe internet noise and polls both of which have reliability issues. getting an alt in a mobile game isnt proving much. mario maker practically everyone got costumes.
PP got in because sakurai loves making at least one weird character per smash game. he was supposed to be base game anyway not dlc.

the idea of waluigi getting in over a character like dante, 2b, sephiroth, ryu, even freaking geno is mind-boggling to me. monetarily, popularity, fan interest, every measure i can think of.

like apreivous post stated he has a presnece more than an impact. bowser jr and baby bowser have appeared in more mainline titles. show up ina role that isnt to race, sport, or play mario party and i'll see a change in his status as a character.

I'd say the fact people play as him a ton in those games is pretty dang convincing that he's popular. Not to mention, again, Nintendo themselves even push the character in marketing for whatever game he's in. Heck, when he was gone from Mario Kart 7? People were upset. His absence was incredibly strange, and many called Nintendo out on it.

Sites were writing news articles about Waluigi not being in Smash. If that doesn't speak volumes about how he is a well beloved Nintendo character, I don't know what would.

Also, if characters need to "make an impact" on gaming to be in Smash, y'all better kiss like, 70% of this roster goodbye, and by your logic, never get anyone who isn't a protagonist ever again.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I approve of what has been said. If Geno or Waluigi (overrated characters that have no relevance in the series what so ever in my opinion) are added, no new worlds will be added. Sorry for bringing up my opinion again, but this is why I want Zero (the Mega Man Zero series version) in Smash. He'll bring a new world with him (Earth after the Elf Wars) and some content never seen before (Zero's techniques across the Mega Man X and Zero series, the Shield Boomerang, the Zero Knuckle, Elemental Chips, etc.).

This seems a little hypocritical, assuming Mega Man Zero is in fact already represented with a spirit and a music track

if Geno's hypothetical inclusion is not considered adding a new world, then neither should Mega Man Zero's

 

[MooMew64]

This seems a little hypocritical, assuming Mega Man Zero is in fact already represented with a couple spirits and a music track

He also has a Mii Costume, I believe.

 

[Metal Shop X]

He also has a Mii Costume, I believe.

That's Mega Man X Zero who has a Mii costume.

The other Zero only got a spirit.

 

[MooMew64]

That's Mega Man X Zero who has a Mii costume.

The other Zero only got a spirit.

Oh, I see. My bad, then. Thanks for the correction!

 

[Iko MattOrr]

From what I've seen the Kirby series has a linear timeline, but info on it is well hidden like in Dark Souls. (It probably has a similar subject matter too. lol)

Indeed, it has a similar subject matter, to be more precise, a Dark Matter...
I know this makes Zero sense

But seriously, yes, Kirby's timeline is mostly linear with some small exceptions (such as Spring Breeze that happens in Kirby Superstar but it's a remake of the first Kirby's Dream Land game, so it's placed at the beginning of the timeline). Though, some extra modes have been said to be parallel timelines, "what if". The events in them follow the canon, but they never happend in the main canon... such as Galacta Knight, he does exist, is referenced muliple times, but Kirby (nor any other character) never met him in the main canon, only in "what if" timelines (unless you consider the Star Dream summons in the Metaknight mode of Robobot as main canon).

There's also the "Dream Kingdom" stuff, the setting in the Kirby Clash series. It apparently seems to be a different universe but probably it's a prequel to Kirby's main adventures, maybe someting happend in ancient times, or Halcandra before it became a lava and machines hell (Magolor seems to be the same one of the main games, so he might be very old). Kirby's presence might not even be canon in those games, probably they're just some random adventurers canon-wise.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly, main reason why I support smaller name characters, even if people will spam "Literally who" or "Too niche" or stuff like that is because they benefit from Smash more. Like here's an example, who would likely gain more out of getting included in Smash? Sol Badguy and Reimu or Doom Guy and Sora? Not harping on the latter two at all but the former would gain more exposure and traction.

It's why seeing characters like Terry get included makes me smile: It's not gonna be "Big" names and smaller people will get a chance to shine. Admittedly, it's why I think people who believe that the second fighters pass will be full of nothing but the biggest, most requested names are wrong. We may get one or two of them but it's gonna likely be characters people gloss over at all or thought impossible.

At least, that's what I think.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

True fact: the next character will be hype.

The DLC reveals so far have alternated perfectly between 'hype' and 'not hype' in my personal opinion.

Joker: Hype
Hero: Not hype
Banjo: Hype
Terry: Not hype
Byleth Cuphead: Hype

Obviously Sakurai knows my own personal tastes exactly and his choosing characters to keep my hype balance perfect, so basically Dante confirmed.


I should add that my hype for Terry, while initially low because I'd never heard of him, increased exponentially once I watched Sakurai's presentation.

 

[Faso115]

Mario spin-offs have more mainstream recognition than every single popular smash character combined.

Honestly this "literally who?" crowd is starting to get on my nerves

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly this "literally who?" crowd is starting to get on my nerves

Take a shot of alcohol every time people use that as a reason against a possible character inclusion or as a response to any new characters getting in.


It's one of the more annoying parts of the Smash fandom. You try to educate people why a character has a better chance than initially given and people go in and say "Literally who" or more recently, "Too niche" and call it a day. It's annoying.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

That's what makes Banjo-Kazooie inclusion into Super Smash Bros feel so right and natural, It feels more like a 1st/2nd Party Nintendo character inclusion.

Most 3rd Party's have more of a "Invading" the Smash universe vibe while Banjo-Kazooie's felt more like "Returning or We're Back !!!" take and it shows with fellow Rare characters DK, Diddy Kong and King K. Rool happy to see their old buddies back and the majority of the Nintendo cast welcoming them back, You can even hear the Smash crowd cheering in the background the moment this frame pops up in the trailer.

Nearly 20 years in the making and changes of ownership and legal issues couldn't stop this historic moment from happening.

And for me personally it doesn't get much better than this...

View attachment 262330

Could have been a little better for me.....

 

[HansShotFirst20]

What do you guys think is the likelihood of Rivals of Aether Mii skins/spirits/music to coincide with the Switch release?

Would be pretty wild for a smashalike to come full circle and get into smash.

Bonus points if Shovel Knight gets another spirit for his Rivals of Aether character art.

 

[Garteam]

The fact that there's people arguing that 2B is more popular with a general audience than Waluigi shows maybe the Geno thread isn't the only one with a bubble problem.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

The fact that there's people arguing that 2B is more popular with a general audience than Waluigi shows maybe the Geno thread is the only one with a bubble problem.

Finally someone that gets how niche actually irrelevant Geno is.

2b is popular enough, but she's been losing relevancy since a few months after the release of her game. Waluigi on the other hand has been more recently relevant, reaching the peak of his popularity around June 2018 -- with Mario Tennis Aces' release and the reaction to him not being in Ultimate.

Of all characters who aren't the main protags of their own games, I think Waluigi has the biggest chance of getting into FPv2.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Personally I'm honestly don't see Geno getting in. He's not as likely as the thread makes him out to be.

I think he's gonna get the Mii treatment again and Shantae will too. If Sans and Cuphead were resorted to such I don't see her chances being that good anymore.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So I’m just going to point out a few things with this argument.

We’re comparing a protagonist of a recent mainstream hit (2B) vs. a Mario character. Basically any Mario character has more mainstream appeal to Nintendo fans than a non-Nintendo character. They’re apples and oranges.

Also, lol at 2B losing relevance. The game is a few years old but saying she’s losing relevance after having crossover events seems a bit misguided. NieR Automata is one of the best rated games of the last decade, and would certainly still be in contention for Smash.

There is no 2B bubble. Some folks may be overzealous right now to say Waluigi isn’t popular. But we’re comparing apples and oranges with this comparison. She’s not this “popular” pick all of a sudden. There’s been discussion in this thread for like...two weeks.

The real question becomes, “Does Waluigi get upgraded?” Which we can’t really say until an upgrade happens, because until then it’s a hypothetical. Popularity only gets you so far. It’s not the be all end all, I think folks need to come up with other reasons than popularity to really get people to start thinking about upgrades like Waluigi. There are far too many characters that are non-playable who would be considered “popular” for it to be an exception for one or two characters in my humble opinion.

 

[Garteam]

I think I should clarify my position. I am a Geno supporter and think he actually has a decent shot, but I'm also a realist about why he'd get in: he's maintained an extremely high level of popularity in the West and that's served a lot of characters well (, , and ).

However, when things start to go off the rails is when people argue "Geno is the most important Mario character lore-wise and is a gaming icon unlike anything the world has seen!". We're past the Brawl days of Third Parties where everyone has be an icon the size of Sonic, Snake, or Mega Man to get in. Geno is ultimately a footnote on the greater scheme of Mario's history, but a lot of people think he's really cool and would have a fun moveset, which is more or less all he needs.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

So here's a completely baseless observation/pattern that will more than likely be made bunk within the next FP:

It's interesting how the unique newcomer lineups for Ultimate, both base game and DLC, have been evenly divided between 'old' and 'new' characters.

For the base game, we have:

(old legacy characters)
(popular modern characters)

For the first Fighters Pass, we only had five characters so it's not exactly even like the base roster, but...

(basically half new, half old, due to being a composite character of heroes from old and new DQ games)

But now we're back to six characters, so perhaps we'll get three boomers and three zoomers again just like the base roster? Maybe? Probably not, but it'd be neat.

Sakurai actually did somewhat adresss this:

https://www.theouterhaven.net/2020/02/sakurai-talks-bringing-byleth-into-super-smash-bros-ultimate/

Hmm I wonder when the cut off for old characters and new characters is?

10 years old? 15 years? I feel like there’s this weird limbo area with some characters being not old enough to be classic but not young enough to be modern either.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I know Im setting myself up for depressing dissapointmrnt but I feel like sora has a chance.
Yeah yeah blah blah disney let me get dissapointed on my own pf

 

[SNEKeater]

Any Mario character is more popular to the general audience than the 99% of characters. So there's not much discussion there, by default any non-Mario character will be less known than any Mario character. Not a fair comparison if you ask me, btw.

I don't think 2B is losing popularity. If anything, the other way around. She hasn't received new games since 2017 and the next Nier game will probably take place a lot of years after Automata's events, like already happens with Nier Automata and the original Nier. And despite of that she has managed to keep his popularity without new games. Yeah, she has appeared in some games as a guest character, like Soul Calibur VI.
But I would say she's more popular and recognizable than Joker, which is in a similar position to her, even when Joker had new games since Persona 5 (Persona 5 Dancing, Persona Q2, Persona 5 Royal, and the upcoming Persona 5 Scramble) plus all the crossovers he's in, which of course includes Smash.

So if anything, I think 2B maintaining his popularity despite of not having new games since 2017 has a good amount of merit, to put it in a way.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Yesterday I was testing a bit some things from Assist trophies (I tend to play without items) and was thinking, how cool would be to have a mode with playable assist trophies? There are a good amount of AT that have a reduced moveset, can jump, some defend and more important, be KO’d. They even can attack each other. So I think something called “Assist Smash” where if you pick up an assist trophy, another player can control it with other joy con. Of course, it need some rules;

1) Can only use AT that are KO’d (no Andross or Nintendogs). You can only choose 1 AT to use.
2) If you play stock battles, your AT looses a stock each time is KO’d and if you play time battle, you get a -1 and your rival a +1
3) Can only play 1 vs 1 smash battles, the game has a mechanic that can only have 2 AT at the same time.

This would be a cool idea to bring AT to a psuedo playable status and brings a lot of requested characters to this status like Waluigi, Isaac, Krystal, Knuckles, Aluccard and even you can control a Rathalos.

They can also bring more ATs to the game like Chorus Kids, Ray MKII, Saki Akamiya and more.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know Im setting myself up for depressing dissapointmrnt but I feel like sora has a chance.
Yeah yeah blah blah disney let me get dissapointed on my own pf

As far as I know his chances aren't null, but his situation is really weird. Not really better or worse, just...weird.

Hmm I wonder when the cut off for old characters and new characters is?

10 years old? 15 years? I feel like there’s this weird limbo area with some characters being not old enough to be classic but not young enough to be modern either.

Well if we're talking just Geno then he'd be considered retro since he appeared alongside King K. Rool on the SNES and King K. Rool is considered more of a retro character. So are Banjo & Kazooie and I believe they're younger.

In general, my thoughts are that if they were created (or had notable appearances beyond crossover titles) in this decade, they're modern. If their prime audience is now 30 and they haven't really done anything recently, they're retro.

EDIT: And now I'm imagining the retro decade references that you see in every indie game shifting from the '80's and '90's to the early 2000's...I don't think I'm ready for that.

 

[Garteam]

So I’m just going to point out a few things with this argument.

We’re comparing a protagonist of a recent mainstream hit (2B) vs. a Mario character. Basically any Mario character has more mainstream appeal to Nintendo fans than non-Nintendo character. They’re apples and oranges.

Also, lol at 2B losing relevance. The game is a few years old but saying she’s losing relevance after having crossover events seems a bit misguided. NieR Automata is one of the best rated games of the last decade, and would certainly still be in contention for Smash.

There is no 2B bubble. Some folks may be overzealous right now to say Waluigi isn’t popular. But we’re comparing apples and oranges with this comparison. She’s not this “popular” pick all of a sudden. There’s been discussion in this thread for like...two weeks.

The real question becomes, “Does Waluigi get upgraded?” Which we can’t really say until an upgrade happens, because until then it’s a hypothetical. Popularity only gets you so far. It’s not the be all end all, I think folks need to come up with other reasons than popularity to really get people to start thinking about upgrades like Waluigi. There are far too many characters that are non-playable who would be considered “popular” for it to be an exception for one or two characters in my humble opinion.

I agree that comparing 2B and Waluigi is generally a dumb idea. The reality is Mario's cast will be more popular with mainstream audiences than virtually any other character. Problem is, I didn't start that comparison, someone else in the thread did as a point against Waluigi.

I also agree that 2B likely isn't going anywhere. Between crossovers and a definite sequel, 2B is definitely still relevant. As relevant as when her game released? Maybe not, but the gaming spotlight is pretty quick to move on. Byleth had lost some relevance in the six months between Fire Emblem: Three Houses and his Smash reveal, but that obviously doesn't matter. You can't really strike when the iron is at max heat, but that doesn't mean the iron isn't hot when you do strike.

Where I disagree is there not being a 2B bubble. The thread seems to have a general consensus on 2B, she's a legitimate contender with Geno and Sora for the next Square character, which I don't necessarily disagree with. Where I do disagree is just how high 2B has been built up in this thread. I would say the biggest example of this is just yesterday, when someone added that they didn't know who 2B was prior to speculation. Rather than accept that someone just couldn't name a character who has only starred in one game (a large game mind you, but still only one game), a minor inquisition developed and explanations were made about how someone could've missed 2B, one of gaming's greatest stars.

If it's getting to the point where individual experiences and opinions that go against the argument for 2B's inclusion have to be explained away for contradicting the argument, then I think a bubble is at least developing, if not outright here.