Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[HansShotFirst20]

Tbh I think the introduction of 3rd parties murdered the chances for a lot of characters. There's now a much much deeper pool to draw from, and a ton of characters (mostly on the obscurer side) just get pushed to the wayside.

Sakurai wanted to add Geno to brawl because he thought it would be cool to design a character based around his arm cannon, but why would he do that when Capcom was letting him use Mega Man, a gaming icon, instead?

Isaac could have been a cool character with RPG mechanics and a sword&magic combat style, but in Sakurai's position, would you choose to add Isaac when the protagonist of Dragon Quest was on the table?

The list goes on (Banjo over Dixie Kong, Simon as Ultimate's retro rep, etc.); I don't think a lot of the still-requested 1st party characters have the punching power in fan demand or market relevance to outshine the 3rd parties, especially now that companies seem to be clamoring to get their characters into Smash.

Sorry Dixie, Bandana Dee, Krystal, etc. fans, but I think you've missed you chance.

 

[epicmartin7]

Desmos doesn't have a ± operation.
Could you please separate this into two functions for me?

If your putting it into desmos, I would just copy the function with only putting a plus or negative sign in. So you basically have two functions. One where 9.something is negative, and one where 9.something is positive.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I agree that comparing 2B and Waluigi is generally a dumb idea. The reality is Mario's cast will be more popular with mainstream audiences than virtually any other character. Problem is, I didn't start that comparison, someone else in the thread did as a point against Waluigi.

I also agree that 2B likely isn't going anywhere. Between crossovers and a definite sequel, 2B is definitely still relevant. As relevant as when her game released? Maybe not, but the gaming spotlight is pretty quick to move on. Byleth had lost some relevance in the six months between Fire Emblem: Three Houses and his Smash reveal, but that obviously doesn't matter. You can't really strike when the iron is at max heat, but that doesn't mean the iron isn't hot when you do strike.

Where I disagree is there not being a 2B bubble. The thread seems to have a general consensus on 2B, she's a legitimate contender with Geno and Sora for the next Square character, which I don't necessarily disagree with. Where I do disagree is just how high 2B has been built up in this thread. I would say the biggest example of this is just yesterday, when someone added that they didn't know who 2B was prior to speculation. Rather than accept that someone just couldn't name a character who has only starred in one game (a large game mind you, but still only one game), a minor inquisition developed and explanations were made about how someone could've missed 2B, one of gaming's greatest stars.

If it's getting to the point where individual experiences and opinions that go against the argument for 2B's inclusion have to be explained away for contradicting the argument, then I think a bubble is at least developing, if not outright here.

While I agree that folks shouldn’t point out the “disbelief” that they couldn’t possibly know 2B, I feel as though this “bubble” you speak of could go both ways.

While there are folks that play many games and may be in a “bubble” that overstated popularity, I see it’s equally, if not more of a thing within Smashboards or Nintendo fans as a whole. There are many fans here who have mainly played strictly Nintendo/Nintendo “related” 3rd parties. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, as I myself used to be that person.

However, let’s face it. NieR Automata has sold at least 4 million copies. We have Joker in Smash, and Persona 5 has sold less than that. In a post-Joker Smash, the sales markets don’t matter as much, but for anyone to say she’s no “recognizable” is a bit off base.

It all comes to perception, for me at least. Certainly, nobody should be shamed for not knowing a character. Rather, I would say they should be encouraged to learn more about those characters. I myself can provide some more information on NieR Automata if anybody would like to know more.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

inb4 it's just something about why we're getting 6 fighters in this pass instead of 5

Even something like that could be beneficial for Fighter 11 speculation.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Tbh I think the introduction of 3rd parties murdered the chances for a lot of characters. There's now a much much deeper pool to draw from, and a ton of characters (mostly on the obscurer side) just get pushed to the wayside.

Sakurai wanted to add Geno to brawl because he thought it would be cool to design a character based around his arm cannon, but why would he do that when Capcom was letting him use Mega Man, a gaming icon, instead?

Isaac could have been a cool character with RPG mechanics and a sword&magic combat style, but in Sakurai's position, would you choose to add Isaac when the protagonist of Dragon Quest was on the table?

The list goes on (Banjo over Dixie Kong, Simon as Ultimate's retro rep, etc.); I don't think a lot of the still-requested 1st party characters have the punching power in fan demand or market relevance to outshine the 3rd parties, especially now that companies seem to be clamoring to get their characters into Smash.

Sorry Dixie, Bandana Dee, Krystal, etc. fans, but I think you've missed you chance.

I would choose Isaac over a Piranha Plant.
I would also choose Dixie Kong over a Piranha Plant.
I would choose Bandanna Dee over a Piranha Plant.
I would, again, choose Krystal over a Piranha Plant.
I would choose Geno, as well, over a Piranha Plant.
I would even choose Waluigi over a Piranha Plant.

No, being a “Joke character” is not an excuse.

Stop calling characters too insignificant to get in when a Piranha Plant got in.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I know I bash Geno a whole lot, but if I can give him credit for one thing, its that his support base (even if its mostly confined to the echo chambers) has grown organically over time.

Meanwhile, the whole reason that Shantal broke out of obscurity in the first place was because Wayforward kept begging people for votes during the Ballot era. Had they actually acted professionally, we wouldn’t have been talking about her in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

If we are getting a reveal in the next Direct, I'm kinda hoping the trailer to catch people offguard like how Joker did at the VGAs with nothing Smash related up until the Smash logo appeared. The only thing is that there isn't that many characters that would probably be able to pull something like that off, but there are 2 characters I had in mind since they both have games coming to the Switch with an unannounced date.

1 is Travis mainly because that Goddamn Superhero trailer was hype as **** and caught me offguard when the Akira reference hit. They could probably catch me offguard again with a different kind of trailer, but I don't really got any scenarios for how they could do it.

The other is York from Deadly Premonition. Because there's only been a reveal for Deadly Premonition 2 in the Fall Direct so far, the next Direct could have us believe York's trailer is going to be about Deadly Premonition 2 only for it to actually be about Smash. I already pictured in my head with York talking to Zach for a good minute about how long it's been since their last adventure while drinking coffee. He looks into the coffee and proceeds to tell Zach they're heading somewhere and doesn't want to keep the guests waiting, and after they leave, the camera slowly looks into the cup showing the foam shaped in the Smash logo. Now that would top Joker's reveal by a mile for me.

I wonder what other characters could pull a reveal like that off. I already know people probably have Master Chief in mind since pretty much every Halo reveal trailer is something that has no real relevance to Halo up until Master Chief is shown.

 

[shinhed-echi]

All I know from 2B is that she's an android.

... and I like it.

Edit: And that she can use the Cypress stick, which is pretty much the weakest and basically a joke weapon in Dragon Quest.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I agree that comparing 2B and Waluigi is generally a dumb idea. The reality is Mario's cast will be more popular with mainstream audiences than virtually any other character. Problem is, I didn't start that comparison, someone else in the thread did as a point against Waluigi.

I also agree that 2B likely isn't going anywhere. Between crossovers and a definite sequel, 2B is definitely still relevant. As relevant as when her game released? Maybe not, but the gaming spotlight is pretty quick to move on. Byleth had lost some relevance in the six months between Fire Emblem: Three Houses and his Smash reveal, but that obviously doesn't matter. You can't really strike when the iron is at max heat, but that doesn't mean the iron isn't hot when you do strike.

Where I disagree is there not being a 2B bubble. The thread seems to have a general consensus on 2B, she's a legitimate contender with Geno and Sora for the next Square character, which I don't necessarily disagree with. Where I do disagree is just how high 2B has been built up in this thread. I would say the biggest example of this is just yesterday, when someone added that they didn't know who 2B was prior to speculation. Rather than accept that someone just couldn't name a character who has only starred in one game (a large game mind you, but still only one game), a minor inquisition developed and explanations were made about how someone could've missed 2B, one of gaming's greatest stars.

If it's getting to the point where individual experiences and opinions that go against the argument for 2B's inclusion have to be explained away for contradicting the argument, then I think a bubble is at least developing, if not outright here.

I mean, if you paid attention to gaming outside of Nintendo in 2017, 2B and Nier Automata were incredibly hot topics that have remained in the gaming consciousness since then, and Nier Automata continues to cross over with big IPs and make a big splash, and it continues to be considered one of the top games of this generation.

Now while that doesn't mean you have to know 2B or Nier Automata personally, there is an element that people are actively playing down about a breakthrough hit that sold 5 million copies and established a formerly very niche Japanese developer as a mainstream name. Again, it's fine to not know that, but I've also seen people practically revel in the fact that they "DIDN'T EVEN KNOW 2B UNTIL SMASH SPECULATION" and thus use that to bludgeon down her chances and discussion regarding her. The individuals who seem to take their lack of knowledge of certain characters as a point of pride tend to lead to these more extreme reactions, and let's face it, there are people in the Smash fan base who didn't know the likes of incredibly popular third parties until they showed up in Smash. You only have to take a step back to Dragon Quest to realize how fundamentally out of touch some Smash fans can be with recognizing globally popular series (and this was a popular series that had massive ties with Nintendo too). Lack of knowledge is not an issue, but I've rarely seen "I didn't know who this character was until Smash" positioned in genuine good faith.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I mean, if you paid attention to gaming outside of Nintendo in 2017, 2B and Nier Automata were incredibly hot topics that have remained in the gaming consciousness since then, and Nier Automata continues to cross over with big IPs and make a big splash, and it continues to be considered one of the top games of this generation.

Now while that doesn't mean you have to know 2B or Nier Automata personally, there is an element that people are actively playing down about a breakthrough hit that sold 5 million copies and established a formerly very niche Japanese developer as a mainstream name. Again, it's fine to not know that, but I've also seen people practically revel in the fact that they "DIDN'T EVEN KNOW 2B UNTIL SMASH SPECULATION" and thus use that to bludgeon down her chances and discussion regarding her. The individuals who seem to take their lack of knowledge of certain characters as a point of pride tend to lead to these more extreme reactions, and let's face it, there are people in the Smash fan base who didn't know the likes of incredibly popular third parties until they showed up in Smash. You only have to take a step back to Dragon Quest to realize how fundamentally out of touch some Smash fans can be with recognizing globally popular series (and this was a popular series that had massive ties with Nintendo too). Lack of knowledge is not an issue, but I've rarely seen "I didn't know who this character was until Smash" positioned in genuine good faith.

Its honestly hilarious that the same ones that claim this about Nier Automata (Which was really popular outside the Nintendo echo chambers when it was released) are the same ones pushing for picks like Geno, Shantal, and Isaac.

Now those picks I can guarantee a majority of people haven’t heard of until they arrived at the Smash echo chambers, lol.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

If we are getting a reveal in the next Direct, I'm kinda hoping the trailer to catch people offguard like how Joker did at the VGAs with nothing Smash related up until the Smash logo appeared. The only thing is that there isn't that many characters that would probably be able to pull something like that off, but there are 2 characters I had in mind since they both have games coming to the Switch with an unannounced date.

1 is Travis mainly because that Goddamn Superhero trailer was hype as **** and caught me offguard when the Akira reference hit. They could probably catch me offguard again with a different kind of trailer, but I don't really got any scenarios for how they could do it.

The other is York from Deadly Premonition. Because there's only been a reveal for Deadly Premonition 2 in the Fall Direct so far, the next Direct could have us believe York's trailer is going to be about Deadly Premonition 2 only for it to actually be about Smash. I already pictured in my head with York talking to Zach for a good minute about how long it's been since their last adventure while drinking coffee. He looks into the coffee and proceeds to tell Zach they're heading somewhere and doesn't want to keep the guests waiting, and after they leave, the camera slowly looks into the cup showing the foam shaped in the Smash logo. Now that would top Joker's reveal by a mile for me.

I wonder what other characters could pull a reveal like that off. I already know people probably have Master Chief in mind since pretty much every Halo reveal trailer is something that has no real relevance to Halo up until Master Chief is shown.

I'd love a surprise reveal, but ever since 2018 VGA's smash fans will never not expect a character reveal.

I would choose Isaac over a Piranha Plant.
I would also choose Dixie Kong over a Piranha Plant.
I would choose Bandanna Dee over a Piranha Plant.
I would, again, choose Krystal over a Piranha Plant.
I would choose Geno, as well, over a Piranha Plant.
I would even choose Waluigi over a Piranha Plant.

No, being a “Joke character” is not an excuse.

Stop calling characters too insignificant to get in when a Piranha Plant got in.

Not really my point; my claim wasn't 'muh relevancy', it was that characters that would represent a specific playstyle or cater to a specific audience got outshined by their 3rd party counterparts. Dixie and Isaac weren't competing for a slot with Piranha Plant, they were competing with Banjo (Rare nostalgia) and Hero (JRPG mechanics) respectively.

Also, Piranha Plant is more relevant than all of those characters. Piranha Plant is the most relevant Ultimate DLC so far. Pretty much everyone knows what a Piranha Plant is, or at least recognizes one. You can't say that about any other Ultimate newcomer. Hell, the character the Piranha Plant got in 'over' was probably Waluigi, who remains the most requested Mario character.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'd love a surprise reveal, but ever since 2018 VGA's smash fans will never not expect a character reveal.



Not really my point; my claim wasn't 'muh relevancy', it was that characters that would represent a specific playstyle or cater to a specific audience got outshined by their 3rd party counterparts. Dixie and Isaac weren't competing for a slot with Piranha Plant, they were competing with Banjo (Rare nostalgia) and Hero (JRPG mechanics) respectively.

Also, Piranha Plant is more relevant than all of those characters. Piranha Plant is the most relevant Ultimate DLC so far. Pretty much everyone knows what a Piranha Plant is, or at least recognizes one. You can't say that about any other Ultimate newcomer.

That would have been a good reasoning for Smash games before Ultimate (or even Smash 4), since characters only took about the most basic traits of their respective games.

But especially in Ultimate, Sakurai's trying really hard to be as faithful to their respective games as possible.
It's probably why Joker and Hero can coexist and were even released back to back.

Isaac has a lot going for him. This has probably been said to death but Isaac could bring:
- Earth / Grass magic. (And even then he's not limited to these two. These are only his strongest ones because he's an earth adept).
- Have summon magic. Summoning is intrinsic to Golden Sun battle systems. The stats and magic attacks usually change once performed, but that's just because Djinns are reset.
- Djinns: These are like Pokemon you can equip, and attack with. They influence Isaac's magic roster. You can mix and match setting them to get different results.

Etc. There's just too much Isaac could do differently. In Ultimate, genre similarity is a non issue. But I get the point you were trying to make.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd love a surprise reveal, but ever since 2018 VGA's smash fans will never not expect a character reveal.

Of course they wouldn't, which is why the 2 characters I mentioned at least have an upcoming game for the Switch. When a potential trailer hits, more people will believe it's going to be about those games and not Smash. I'm not gonna look at a trailer for No More Heroes 3 or Deadly Premonition 2 as something Smash related; like I'll probably think "hey what if this guy was in Smash?" but not "this HAS to be the Smash trailer!". People can expect a reveal to happen, but they can't expect how it happens.

 

[3BitSaurus]

If we are getting a reveal in the next Direct, I'm kinda hoping the trailer to catch people offguard like how Joker did at the VGAs with nothing Smash related up until the Smash logo appeared. The only thing is that there isn't that many characters that would probably be able to pull something like that off, but there are 2 characters I had in mind since they both have games coming to the Switch with an unannounced date.

1 is Travis mainly because that Goddamn Superhero trailer was hype as **** and caught me offguard when the Akira reference hit. They could probably catch me offguard again with a different kind of trailer, but I don't really got any scenarios for how they could do it.

The other is York from Deadly Premonition. Because there's only been a reveal for Deadly Premonition 2 in the Fall Direct so far, the next Direct could have us believe York's trailer is going to be about Deadly Premonition 2 only for it to actually be about Smash. I already pictured in my head with York talking to Zach for a good minute about how long it's been since their last adventure while drinking coffee. He looks into the coffee and proceeds to tell Zach they're heading somewhere and doesn't want to keep the guests waiting, and after they leave, the camera slowly looks into the cup showing the foam shaped in the Smash logo. Now that would top Joker's reveal by a mile for me.

I wonder what other characters could pull a reveal like that off. I already know people probably have Master Chief in mind since pretty much every Halo reveal trailer is something that has no real relevance to Halo up until Master Chief is shown.

Travis' trailer would absolutely be a bait and switch one. It's practically a tradition for his series' trailers to be like that, really.

Imagine that the trailer actually starts with NMH and his fans go "oh, no bait and switch this time, Suda?" only for it to be Smash instead. It would be the funniest thing.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Now while that doesn't mean you have to know 2B or Nier Automata personally, there is an element that people are actively playing down about a breakthrough hit that sold 5 million copies and established a formerly very niche Japanese developer as a mainstream name. Again, it's fine to not know that, but I've also seen people practically revel in the fact that they "DIDN'T EVEN KNOW 2B UNTIL SMASH SPECULATION" and thus use that to bludgeon down her chances and discussion regarding her. The individuals who seem to take their lack of knowledge of certain characters as a point of pride tend to lead to these more extreme reactions, and let's face it, there are people in the Smash fan base who didn't know the likes of incredibly popular third parties until they showed up in Smash. You only have to take a step back to Dragon Quest to realize how fundamentally out of touch some Smash fans can be with recognizing globally popular series (and this was a popular series that had massive ties with Nintendo too). Lack of knowledge is not an issue, but I've rarely seen "I didn't know who this character was until Smash" positioned in genuine good faith.

I think it's mostly because Smash fans and Nintendo fans are basically the same group. I mean, I'd like to think I know a lot about gaming but my track record for knowing the DLC characters are:
Knew of the series (but not the character):
Knew the character from speculation: (and Erdrick)
Actually knew enough to appreciate the character before reveal: (and Byleth)

And of course this is probably assuming I'm a part of a majority, but I feel like most Smash fan's knowledge on gaming doesn't really leave Nintendo of their region.

- Djinns: These are like Pokemon you can equip, and attack with. They influence Isaac's magic roster. You can mix and match setting them to get different results.

Also, they're adorable.

like I'll probably think "hey what if this guy was in Smash?" but not "this HAS to be the Smash trailer!".

Unless of course, you see the "not actual gameplay" disclaimer. lol

 

[HansShotFirst20]

That would have been a good reasoning for Smash games before Ultimate (or even Smash 4), since characters only took about the most basic traits of their respective games.

But especially in Ultimate, Sakurai's trying really hard to be as faithful to their respective games as possible.
It's probably why Joker and Hero can coexist and were even released back to back.

Isaac has a lot going for him. This has probably been said to death but Isaac could bring:
- Earth / Grass magic. (And even then he's not limited to these two. These are only his strongest ones because he's an earth adept).
- Have summon magic. Summoning is intrinsic to Golden Sun battle systems. The stats and magic attacks usually change once performed, but that's just because Djinns are reset.
- Djinns: These are like Pokemon you can equip, and attack with. They influence Isaac's magic roster. You can mix and match setting them to get different results.

Etc. There's just too much Isaac could do differently. In Ultimate, genre similarity is a non issue. But I get the point you were trying to make.

I get that there's a big difference between how Hero and Isaac could fight (look at smash flash 2), but I think if we got another sword wielding JRPG protag, anyone not in the Isaac support circles would bust a vein.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Dixie and Isaac weren't competing for a slot with Piranha Plant, they were competing with Banjo (Rare nostalgia) and Hero (JRPG mechanics) respectively.

Not really sure how you know that. Just because those characters have similar traits doesn't mean they were competing with each other. By that logic Dixie and Isaac were competing with Plant because they were all 1st Party and Banjo and Hero were not competing with them because they were 3rd Party.

Also, Piranha Plant is more relevant than all of those characters. Piranha Plant is the most relevant Ultimate DLC so far. Pretty much everyone knows what a Piranha Plant is, or at least recognizes one. You can't say that about any other Ultimate newcomer. Hell, the character the Piranha Plant got in 'over' was probably Waluigi, who remains the most requested Mario character.

Pretty gross overestimation of a generic mook's popularity. I never even brought up relevancy in my argument, I brought up significance, but even then the Plant is certainly not the highest in either regard.

Anyways we already had this debate a while ago, so I think I'll just leave this here.

i think there's a key difference between "knows what a character is" and "cares about them" that should be taken into account

less people know about most of the assist trophies but i assure you they all have more people who would care about them getting into smash bros than the people who cared about pirahna plant getting in.

in that respect plant is nothing but a huge flex from sakurai on people who follow smash more than he would like them to, much like tripping was flexing on people who took advantage of the options he provided in game to play the game in a way they enjoyed that he would really rather they not use

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I get that there's a big difference between how Hero and Isaac could fight (look at smash flash 2), but I think if we got another sword wielding JRPG protag, anyone not in the Isaac support circles would bust a vein.

Oh yeah. I can hear the "they could have picked any Assist Trophy, and it was the freaking anime swordie" complaints from here, which is impressive, because I think they're coming from an alternate dimension.

Not really sure how you know that. Just because those characters have similar traits doesn't mean they were competing with each other. By that logic Dixie and Isaac were competing with Plant because they were all 1st Party and Banjo and Hero were not competing with them because they were 3rd Party.

Well if we're going by the "who would like this?" reasoning they probably are. But of course, that's not the only reasoning for a character's selection.

EDIT: Though if we are going with the "who would like this?" reasoning, Piranha Plant is only competing with other absurd characters as people who like super crazy wacky stuff are pretty much the only audience for it.
EDIT EDIT: That's not to say Piranha Plant was the best character for this job, there are more beloved wacky characters out there. There's no way Piranha Plant was added solely for this reason.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Now that we know that Nintendo had a bigger hand in choosing DLC's than we thought, I think it's reasonable to rule out characters that Nintendo wouldn't really have a reason to pick.

Joker, Hero, and Byleth had immediate relevancy, Terry was to promote the NEO GEO switch ports that ended up being really popular, and Banjo was an olive branch with Microsoft.

What reason does Nintendo have to put your character in? DMC3 on switch

 

[Iko MattOrr]

When Ultimate was in development, the most successful Nintendo games/franchises were Splatoon, Mario Maker, Animal Crossing and Pokèmon.
Inkling, Isabelle, Incineroar and Piranha Plant

I'm still convinced that Piranha Plant was chosen out of the success of Mario Maker, and that it implicitly represents that game. I also think it does its job pretty well, but that's because I like "super crazy wacky stuff" so I may be biased.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

When Ultimate was in development, the most successful Nintendo games/franchises were Splatoon, Mario Maker, Animal Crossing and Pokèmon.
Inkling, Isabelle, Incineroar and Piranha Plant

I'm still convinced that Piranha Plant was chosen out of the success of Mario Maker, and that it implicitly represents that game. I also think it does its job pretty well, but that's because I like "super crazy wacky stuff" so I may be biased.

Sakurai needed a Mario rep and wanted to flex his creative muscles -- but yeah PP being a Mario Maker rep does make perfect sense, too.

 

[Aerospherology]

I guess Bendy is deconfirmed. Did ANYONE want him?

I would LOVE to fulfill your thousands of requests to ask to put Bendy in Smash.. but sadly, we don’t know anyone at Nintendo at the moment. :( But what an exciting thing that would be if he made it in someday! We all can dream. :)

— theMeatly (@themeatly) February 15, 2020

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sakurai wanted to add Geno to brawl because he thought it would be cool to design a character based around his arm cannon, but why would he do that when Capcom was letting him use Mega Man, a gaming icon, instead?

He said “I wanted to add him as far back as Brawl” and “he has a gun for a hand, and I think he’d be perfect for Smash.” After he added Mega Man/most of the other characters, too. Geno’s weapons and abilities differ from Mega Man’s, as well, and Mega Man doesn’t revolve around his arm cannon much more than Samus does hers. There’s also Mii Gunner, which is still different from Geno.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I guess Bendy is deconfirmed. Did ANYONE want him?

I can't really say this was a surprise. The best shot at getting an indie character in Smash DLC were Sans and Reimu, and one of them got revealed as a mii costume.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If we are getting a reveal in the next Direct, I'm kinda hoping the trailer to catch people offguard like how Joker did at the VGAs with nothing Smash related up until the Smash logo appeared. The only thing is that there isn't that many characters that would probably be able to pull something like that off, but there are 2 characters I had in mind since they both have games coming to the Switch with an unannounced date.

1 is Travis mainly because that Goddamn Superhero trailer was hype as **** and caught me offguard when the Akira reference hit. They could probably catch me offguard again with a different kind of trailer, but I don't really got any scenarios for how they could do it.

The other is York from Deadly Premonition. Because there's only been a reveal for Deadly Premonition 2 in the Fall Direct so far, the next Direct could have us believe York's trailer is going to be about Deadly Premonition 2 only for it to actually be about Smash. I already pictured in my head with York talking to Zach for a good minute about how long it's been since their last adventure while drinking coffee. He looks into the coffee and proceeds to tell Zach they're heading somewhere and doesn't want to keep the guests waiting, and after they leave, the camera slowly looks into the cup showing the foam shaped in the Smash logo. Now that would top Joker's reveal by a mile for me.

I wonder what other characters could pull a reveal like that off. I already know people probably have Master Chief in mind since pretty much every Halo reveal trailer is something that has no real relevance to Halo up until Master Chief is shown.

There are 2 characters I think a teaser like this works perfectly for. Sora and Phoenix.

Sora because nobody actually expects him to show up so it would leave more of an impact if say, the trailer makes you think the HD collections are coming to Switch only for to find the message in a bottle and it's a smash invitation rather than Mickeys Mark of mastery exam letter.

As for Phoenix it would just be a funny trailer because ace attorney in Japan always does funny trailers like that.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

There’s also Mii Gunner, which is still different from Geno.

Spoiler

 

[TheCJBrine]

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You know what I meant. I guess Isaac would fight just like the Swordfighter, Skull Kid just like the Brawler, or K. Rool also just like the Brawler- wait.

In Geno’s game, his abilities are different than the Mii’s. Even Geno Beam would work differently than the mii’s final smash if the moveset is faithful. He has his own original moves, too.

edit: also, Sakurai liked an Instagram post about a custom Geno doll, so he definitely likes Geno for more than a potential moveset.

 

[MooMew64]

I still think Mallow would be cooler, personally.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

You know what I meant. I guess Isaac would fight just like the Swordfighter, Skull Kid just like the Brawler, or K. Rool also just like the Brawler- wait.

In Geno’s game, his abilities are different than the Mii’s. Even Geno Beam would work differently than the mii’s final smash if the moveset is faithful. He has his own original moves, too.

My post was a joke -- I don't actually think that Geno is perfectly represented by the Mii costume.

That said, I think in proportion to his relevance, he's represented well enough by the Mii costume that another character (read: Dante, or Sora/2b if they have to be Square) can fill the DLC slot he would take instead.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I still think Mallow would be cooler, personally.

I would also love Mallow, though Fighter-wise I personally lean towards Geno and would like to see him playable at least (I like both about equally though).

My post was a joke -- I don't actually think that Geno is perfectly represented by the Mii costume.

That said, I think in proportion to his relevance, he's represented well enough by the Mii costume that another character (read: Dante, or Sora/2b if they have to be Square) can fill the DLC slot he would take instead.

That’s fair.

Sorry I didn’t realize it was a joke. I think people have argued Geno being like the Mii before :S

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I guess Bendy is deconfirmed. Did ANYONE want him?

Judging by the fact that this is the first time he's been mentioned here, probably no one here. I only got curious about the series a few days ago so I don't know much about it, but even if it did get a character I don't even think it would be Bendy since the character is purely fictional in universe. It would probably be the Ink Demon instead, as it seems to be the most prominent force throughout the game (at least from what I've seen). As far as character choices go it wouldn't be a good one, though I won't deny that it would be an interesting one from a...everything standpoint. If we were to get an indie horrer character I'd say Freddy would be a better choice since FNaF is becoming a successful multi-media franchise, but even then I wouldn't say it's a good decision given its "people hate it because it's popular/everywhere" status, but without the Mincraft/Fortnite levels of popularity.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

I would also love Mallow, though I personally lean towards Geno and would like to see him playable at least.


That’s fair.

Sorry I didn’t realize it was a joke. I think people have argued Geno being like the Mii before :S

I'm in the same boat as you -- there are a lot of characters I'd love to see in (Shovel Knight in particular), but they all have issues --generally relevance, or benefit to Nintendo for adding them-- that would get in the way; but ever since the Sans mii costume, I'd be fine seeing them as Mii costumes.

Shovel Knight, Steve, and Hollow Knight would be fine as Swordfighters, Geno and Atlas/Peabody would be fine as gunners, and the Battletoads and Double Dragon protags would be fine as Brawlers -- though fine is where I draw the line, I'd rather see and of these characters playable, at least for the sake of variety.

 

[Cosmic77]

I still think Mallow would be cooler, personally.

Between the two, Mallow is actually more important to SMRPG's main story. There are two points in the game where he gets some character development, whereas Geno is introduced and doesn't really influence the story aside from sharing the same goal as Mario.

Mallow also controls the weather, which I think would be a lot more interesting than a finger gun. I can't say I want either of them in Smash, but Mallow always felt like the better option who was ignored because of his design.

 

[Lamperouge]

Man, **** Geno and Mellow

Just give me the Axem Rangers

 

[DarthEnderX]

I also agree that 2B likely isn't going anywhere. Between crossovers and a definite sequel, 2B is definitely still relevant.

You must not be very familiar with the plot of Automata if you think 2B is going to be relevant in the sequel...

Its honestly hilarious that the same ones that claim this about Nier Automata (Which was really popular outside the Nintendo echo chambers when it was released) are the same ones pushing for picks like Geno, Shantal, and Isaac.

Implying that Shantae is some kind of retro pick from a dead franchise instead of an active franchise the continues to regularly get new games...

 

[Arcadenik]

When Ultimate was in development, the most successful Nintendo games/franchises were Splatoon, Mario Maker, Animal Crossing and Pokèmon.
Inkling, Isabelle, Incineroar and Piranha Plant

I'm still convinced that Piranha Plant was chosen out of the success of Mario Maker, and that it implicitly represents that game. I also think it does its job pretty well, but that's because I like "super crazy wacky stuff" so I may be biased.

You are probably right.

Influenced by Smash Ballot (2015) -
Influenced by successful Nintendo games (2015 - 2018) -
Influenced by convenience -

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Now that we know that Nintendo had a bigger hand in choosing DLC's than we thought, I think it's reasonable to rule out characters that Nintendo wouldn't really have a reason to pick.

Joker, Hero, and Byleth had immediate relevancy, Terry was to promote the NEO GEO switch ports that ended up being really popular, and Banjo was an olive branch with Microsoft.

What reason does Nintendo have to put your character in? DMC3 on switch

Terry's a legacy character, I highly doubt the Switch games were considered worthy of promotion when adding Terry, especially as SNK and Nintendo have always been very chummy, Terry's inclusion HAS to be because of SNK's legacy, including heavily inspiring Smash

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Between the two, Mallow is actually more important to SMRPG's main story. There are two points in the game where he gets some character development, whereas Geno is introduced and doesn't really influence the story aside from sharing the same goal as Mario.

Mallow also controls the weather, which I think would be a lot more interesting than a finger gun. I can't say I want either of them in Smash, but Mallow always felt like the better option who was ignored because of his design.

I've seen this argument discussed already time ago.

While Mallow has a more complex story arc and more character development, I think that he's still more "side character" than Geno, who's tied with the main plot.
I think that out of the two, Geno is still the more important, but I like both characters regardless.

Anyway, Geno also has star powers, not just guns... he can drop shooting stars, and have starry effects in most neutral moves. I think he'd be a weird mix of Rosalina and Megaman. He can also put items out of his hat, something that's pretty iconic to him and also very funny.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Man, **** Geno and Mellow

Just give me the Axem Rangers

Looks like someone watched SMBZ

Those videos made me like Mecha Sonic far more than anything Sega could do.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Honestly, Geno would be cool just for the fact that he'd be a gunner type character, a playstyle we are sorely lacking in.

The only gun focused characters we even have are Dark/Samus, Megaman and Mii Gunner. Maybe Bayonetta if you count the shots when you hold the attacks but I barely count her as she's more of a brawler.