Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

If Geno doesn't make it as a fighter in Pass 2, I think the best option for him would be a Mii Costume, and not just his Smash 4 one either. I mean an entirely new, full body costume à la Sans and Cuphead.

This way, you would still feel like you're playing as Geno, even though it's Mii Gunner's moveset.

there was supposedly a takedown of Beware the Forest's Mushrooms on Youtube, so it'd probably also come with that track like Sans and Cuphead

 

[Arcadenik]

If Geno doesn't make it as a fighter in Pass 2, I think the best option for him would be a Mii Costume, and not just his Smash 4 one either. I mean an entirely new, full body costume à la Sans and Cuphead.

This way, you would still feel like you're playing as Geno, even though it's Mii Gunner's moveset.

I want one for Mallow too.

This way, "Mallow" can summon tornadoes with his Froggie Stick.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Geno will always have a chance if he stays popular, but I do think people should reevaluate just how likely he is if he doesn't get in Ultimate. Might be time to move on to a different character until SE or Nintendo figure out whether or not they care about Geno.

I personally don't agree with this, after all the only reason Geno even stands a chance at all is because his fans have been supporting him for so long against all reason, the moment when fans give up is when characters go the way of Krystal and Takamaru. It would have been easy for Ridley fans to give up many times down the road (I was personally told to do so countless times), or for K. Rool fans to move on until he was finally reintroduced in DKC, but some characters just don't get to have it the easy way, and it's important to stick with them through that.

I'd hope that even if he doesn't make it into Ultimate that Geno fans keep at it, even if the situation would be more difficult than ever. Nintendo and SE might not care about Geno, but it's important that the fans continue to show that they do.

 

[cosmicB]

So does anyone think Sakurai and Nintendo have taken extra precautions to crack down on leaks for season 2? I've seen people talk about how certain companies are much more leak-happy than others (such as Disney or Microsoft) and use that as a way to anticipate how speculation will shape out going forward, but that wouldn't even enter the conversation if Nintendo started sending their ninjas everywhere while keeping those with knowledge about any given character not passing a number you can count on one hand.

I'm expecting crazy leakbait going forward that will be given to all the usual names.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If Geno doesn't make it as a fighter in Pass 2, I think the best option for him would be a Mii Costume, and not just his Smash 4 one either. I mean an entirely new, full body costume à la Sans and Cuphead.

I mean, yeah. That's pretty reasonable.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah, I'm sure Nintendo has done plenty of turning third-parties down. Bethesda and Suda51 are just two we actually know about.

I'm also just going to make an assumption that Ubisoft was another.

Considering that Ubisoft sent Sakurai a 3D render of Rayman made from scratch during the Smash 4 days and were seemingly pushing him for Smash in general, then afterwards put Rayman into Brawlhalla (which they publish), I think that's a pretty safe assumption, honestly.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Right, and as I argued previously, Red Dead Redemption 2 probably sold more than every classic Mega Man game combined. That doesn't make Arthur Morgan more iconic Mega Man.

Because I was arguing iconicness, not popularity.

>Shantae
>Iconic

How come her supporters keep spreading this around?

 

[N3ON]

Because I was arguing iconicness, not popularity.

There are few arguments that seem more futile to me.

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly there already was a period where it felt like the Geno fandom had mostly given up, or at the very least, had only been reduced to a few dedicated fans.

I looked back at the discussion threads regarding characters for the previous games, and as you can see Geno's Smash 4 discussion page didn't even crack 100 pages. Compare that to the Brawl or Ultimate threads where he basically reigns supreme. That right there is a good indicator to where Geno was after he didn't get into Brawl.

The one main thing Geno has over characters like Krystal or Takamaru is Sakurai admitting in 2016 that he wanted to make him playable in the past. If it wasn't for that, well, I don't think Geno would be talked about as much as he is today.

 

[Firox]

Funny how this could be applied to literally a majority of the Geno thread.

So many of you scream “T-THATS JUST A FANRULE” to any arguments made against promotions, and dismiss literally ANY opposing opinion in that thread as trolls, but you are now claiming that they “refuse to entertain anyone elses logic”.

Never change, SmashBoards.

See, but I can prove you dead wrong right in this post. You say that people in the Geno thread "dismiss literally ANY opposing opinions". Let me tell you some of the ideas you support that I and many others agree with:

1) You point out that Spirits are basically a way for Sakurai to include characters that he didn't originally intend to be fighters. This is actually a pretty sound argument. The problem is that YOU refuse to accept the possibility that Sakurai could change his mind/plans based on demands by corporate Nintendo AFTER the spirits were made. You have ZERO proof to support the idea that Spirits are a permanent deconfirm of all future inclusions despite the fact that Sakurai has explicitly said that Nintendo is calling the shots now. He could have easily decided not to include Geno up until Nintendo gave him the green light for another 6 characters which would have been WELL AFTER both the base game and initial round of DLC.

2) You cite the inclusion of Piranha Plant (and basically any character that ISN'T Geno) as a sign that Sakurai doesn't actually care about prioritizing Geno. I not only agree with this sentiment as being highly suspicious of a guy that personally claimed to WANT Geno, but even take it further as to say that adding a generic Mario enemy was kind of a slap to the face for ALL notable characters yet to get into the game. (By "notable" I'm referring to fan requested or named characters of more renown) Then again, we don't know Sakurai's intent. Maybe he was just that bent on having a gag character. It could have been that he saved some of the more "juicy" characters for DLC in hopes that they would make more money seeing as how I'm sure more people would have bought the like of Banjo, Joker and Hero over PP. Also, we really don't know the true nature of how things are decided between Nintendo and Sakurai, so there could be a lot more in play here than we realize. For example, Nintendo could have decided with SE that Dragon Quest was to take priority before discussing Geno's inclusion, but we can't know for sure. Then we come back you again. As usual, you go and close that little mind of yours to ANY of the possibilities I just mentioned, dismissing any chance that Sakurai or Nintendo had other agendas to cover first before finally getting to Geno.

I could go on but frankly I lack the time and will to waste on convincing someone that refuses to be convinced. Suffice to say, I've refuted your point that my mind is as magnetically sealed as yours is. I can push my biases aside and acknowledge that even ideas contrary to mine can offer merit. Can you? Cuz it sure as hell doesn't look like it. And FYI, if you were to slow your roll and stop acting like the only person with two brain cells to rub together, maybe other threads wouldn't flag you as a troll. Be civil and use ALL the data to make a conclusion. Not just the data that fits your narrative.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So does anyone think Sakurai and Nintendo have taken extra precautions to crack down on leaks for season 2? I've seen people talk about how certain companies are much more leak-happy than others (such as Disney or Microsoft) and use that as a way to anticipate how speculation will shape out going forward, but that wouldn't even enter the conversation if Nintendo started sending their ninjas everywhere while keeping those with knowledge about any given character not passing a number you can count on one hand.

I'm expecting crazy leakbait going forward that will be given to all the usual names.

>Leakers tease a swordfighter from Disney is coming to Smash

>Makes everyone think it's Sora

>reveal trailer in space making everyone think it's Master chief

>throws a curveball and bam

>Sakurai proceeds to look at the screen and say "never ask for anything again "

 

[DarthEnderX]

>Shantae
>Iconic

How come her supporters keep spreading this around?

Well, frankly, you came into this conversation in the middle and have misrepresented my argument TWICE now. I never argued that Shantae was more popular than 2B. And I never argued that Shantae was iconic.

I was arguing AGAINST the statement that Shantae is less iconic than 2B. Because the character with an entire franchise that's been around for almost 20 years is not less iconic than the character that only has one game and has only existed for 3 years.

But neither Shantae NOR 2B are iconic.

So stop trying to turn me into a strawman for arguments I don't actually support please.

 

[Eldrake]

>Leakers tease a swordfighter from Disney is coming to Smash

>Makes everyone think it's Sora

>reveal trailer in space making everyone think it's Master chief

>throws a curveball and bam
View attachment 262312

>Sakurai proceeds to look at the screen and say "never ask for anything again "

I would be okay with this.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Honestly there already was a period where it felt like the Geno fandom had mostly given up, or at the very least, had only been reduced to a few dedicated fans.

I looked back at the discussion threads regarding characters for the previous games, and as you can see Geno's Smash 4 discussion page didn't even crack 100 pages. Compare that to the Brawl or Ultimate threads where he basically reigns supreme. That right there is a good indicator to where Geno was after he didn't get into Brawl.

The one main thing Geno has over characters like Krystal or Takamaru is Sakurai admitting in 2016 that he wanted to make him playable in the past. If it wasn't for that, well, I don't think Geno would be talked about as much as he is today.

Yeah, it's true that Geno support was super low during Smash 4 speculation, during those days I remember looking back on his Brawl support as if it had all been some weird fever dream lol. If anything it should serve as an example as to why they shouldn't give up, Sakurai's comment and the Mii Costume basically gave them a second chance, if they go back in hiding like in the Smash 4 days then that's probably lights out for good.

 

[Deleted member]

>Leakers tease a swordfighter from Disney is coming to Smash

>Makes everyone think it's Sora

>reveal trailer in space making everyone think it's Master chief

>throws a curveball and bam
View attachment 262312

>Sakurai proceeds to look at the screen and say "never ask for anything again "

Now that is what I call a 900 IQ play.

 

[Cosmic77]

I personally don't agree with this, after all the only reason Geno even stands a chance at all is because his fans have been supporting him for so long against all reason, the moment when fans give up is when characters go the way of Krystal and Takamaru. It would have been easy for Ridley fans to give up many times down the road (I was personally told to do so countless times), or for K. Rool fans to move on until he was finally reintroduced in DKC, but some characters just don't get to have it the easy way, and it's important to stick with them through that.

I'd hope that even if he doesn't make it into Ultimate that Geno fans keep at it, even if the situation would be more difficult than ever. Nintendo and SE might not care about Geno, but it's important that the fans continue to show that they do.

Not saying Geno fans should give up altogether, but I do think Ultimate is set up a little different than Brawl and Smash 4.

One thing that Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno all have in common is that they haven't done much in recent years outside Smash. A large amount of fan support was basically the only thing keeping them alive. So far, Sakurai has added all but Geno, which makes me consider his absence on the roster but presence as a Spirit to be a very telling sign. I'd probably be saying the same thing about Ridley if K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno all got in without him and he returned as a boss on Pyrosphere.

Again, not saying Geno fans should abandon their character and give up, but I do think they should acknowledge that something needs to change, because popularity alone clearly isn't cutting it. There needs to be some new development that would make Sakurai change his mind, such as Geno resurfacing and being relevant in Mario games again. I don't feel like he or any of the other characters mentioned in this post would have a better chance in the next Smash game with their current relevancy, especially when cut characters will be competition for DLC spots.

 

[Wunderwaft]

There has been no precedent for a second season of Smash DLC until recently, we don't know what is and what is not allowed as a playable character. Do spirits and assist trophies deconfirm forever until the next game? No one knows, this is the first time in history where we've had a second season of Smash DLC going forward for 2-3 years after the base game's release.

There have been examples of other fighting games that promoted NPC characters to playable characters in the same game as DLC, one of those examples is Kolin from Street Fighter V. This isn't a brand new concept for fighting games, it is sometimes expected that developers would upgrade characters with NPC roles to a playable status in a DLC or a re-release of the game.

No offense to anyone but sometimes when I see people arguing that upgrades are impossible and that anyone who entertains them as delusional, it just comes off to me as "shut up and stop talking about these characters I don't like!". We don't have anything that strongly dictates what the DLC could and could not be about. Point is, let people speculate what they want about upgrades. Trying to come off as smug and condescending to people who think upgrades are possible is just rude.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not saying Geno fans should give up altogether, but I do think Ultimate is set up a little different than Brawl and Smash 4.

One thing that Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno all have in common is that they haven't done much in recent years outside Smash. A large amount of fan support was basically the only thing keeping them alive. So far, Sakurai has added all but Geno, which makes me consider his absence on the roster but presence as a Spirit to be a very telling sign. I'd probably be saying the same thing about Ridley if K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno all got in without him and he returned as a boss on Pyrosphere.

Again, not saying Geno fans should abandon their character and give up, but I do think they should acknowledge that something needs to change, because popularity alone clearly isn't cutting it. There needs to be some new development that would make Sakurai change his mind, such as Geno resurfacing and being relevant in Mario games again. I don't feel like he or any of the other characters mentioned in this post would have a better chance in the next Smash game with their current relevancy, especially when cut characters will be competition for DLC spots.

Ridley appears in almost every Metroid game, as long as the franchise is alive, he is, especially as seen in Samus Returns where he got added despite not being in Metroid 2

 

[Hadokeyblade]

There has been no precedent for a second season of Smash DLC until recently, we don't know what is and what is not allowed as a playable character. Do spirits and assist trophies deconfirm forever until the next game? No one knows, this is the first time in history where we've had a second season of Smash DLC going forward for 2-3 years after the base game's release.

There have been examples of other fighting games that promoted NPC characters to playable characters in the same game as DLC, one of those examples is Kolin from Street Fighter V. This isn't a brand new concept for fighting games, it is sometimes expected that developers would upgrade characters with NPC roles to a playable status in a DLC or a re-release of the game.

No offense to anyone but sometimes when I see people arguing that upgrades are impossible and that anyone who entertains them as delusional, it just comes off to me as "shut up and stop talking about these characters I don't like!". We don't have anything that strongly dictates what the DLC could and could not be about. Point is, let people speculate what they want about upgrades. Trying to come off as smug and condescending to people who think upgrades are possible is just rude.

I think the difference between that and how smash handles it is that in those games the NPC's usually have 3D models already made for them so it's easier to make them playable.

 

[Faso115]

Not saying Geno fans should give up altogether, but I do think Ultimate is set up a little different than Brawl and Smash 4.

One thing that Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno all have in common is that they haven't done much in recent years outside Smash. A large amount of fan support was basically the only thing keeping them alive. So far, Sakurai has added all but Geno, which makes me consider his absence on the roster but presence as a Spirit to be a very telling sign. I'd probably be saying the same thing about Ridley if K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno all got in without him and he returned as a boss on Pyrosphere.

Again, not saying Geno fans should abandon their character and give up, but I do think they should acknowledge that something needs to change, because popularity alone clearly isn't cutting it. There needs to be some new development that would make Sakurai change his mind, such as Geno resurfacing and being relevant in Mario games again. I don't feel like he or any of the other characters mentioned in this post would have a better chance in the next Smash game with their current relevancy, especially when cut characters will be competition for DLC spots.

This is factually incorrect regarding Ridley. Whenever a main Metroid game was released he was featured so ridley wasnt exactly forgotten.

His franchise? Now thats been neglected but they at least got a cool Remake.

 

[Cosmic77]

There has been no precedent for a second season of Smash DLC until recently, we don't know what is and what is not allowed as a playable character. Do spirits and assist trophies deconfirm forever until the next game? No one knows, this is the first time in history where we've had a second season of Smash DLC going forward for 2-3 years after the base game's release.

There have been examples of other fighting games that promoted NPC characters to playable characters in the same game as DLC, one of those examples is Kolin from Street Fighter V. This isn't a brand new concept for fighting games, it is sometimes expected that developers would upgrade characters with NPC roles to a playable status in a DLC or a re-release of the game.

No offense to anyone but sometimes when I see people arguing that upgrades are impossible and that anyone who entertains them as delusional, it just comes off to me as "shut up and stop talking about these characters I don't like!". We don't have anything that strongly dictates what the DLC could and could not be about. Point is, let people speculate what they want about upgrades. Trying to come off as smug and condescending to people who think upgrades are possible is just rude.

I can understand why people think Spirits deconfirm characters, but what I don't understand is why certain people are so unwilling to acknowledge the possibility. You have those who say, "I doubt it'll happen, but it's not impossible," and then you have those who say, "We need to be realistic. It's never gonna happen, and the the sooner we accept that, the better."

Both sides have a bias influencing their opinion, and it's usually related to characters. Either Spirits don't deconfirm and your character still has a chance, or Spirits deconfirm and your character has less competition, making them more likely by default.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ridley appears in almost every Metroid game, as long as the franchise is alive, he is, especially as seen in Samus Returns where he got added despite not being in Metroid 2

This, and K.Rool and Banjo where all kept alive by the discussion about them..there's tons of passionate Rare fans. Also tons of passionate Donkey Kong Country fans who wanted K.Rool back after this absence in DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze.

People over simplify things here. Or just talk **** about periods of time they where not present in discussions. Shame to see a lot of the old supporters leaving after staying around since pre Brawl speculation till Smash 4 DLC speculation. Otherwise these dumb ass misconceptions wouldn't be so widespread.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

See, but I can prove you dead wrong right in this post. You say that people in the Geno thread "dismiss literally ANY opposing opinions". Let me tell you some of the ideas you support that I and many others agree with:

1) You point out that Spirits are basically a way for Sakurai to include characters that he didn't originally intend to be fighters. This is actually a pretty sound argument. The problem is that YOU refuse to accept the possibility that Sakurai could change his mind/plans based on demands by corporate Nintendo AFTER the spirits were made. You have ZERO proof to support the idea that Spirits are a permanent deconfirm of all future inclusions despite the fact that Sakurai has explicitly said that Nintendo is calling the shots now. He could have easily decided not to include Geno up until Nintendo gave him the green light for another 6 characters which would have been WELL AFTER both the base game and initial round of DLC.

2) You cite the inclusion of Piranha Plant (and basically any character that ISN'T Geno) as a sign that Sakurai doesn't actually care about prioritizing Geno. I not only agree with this sentiment as being highly suspicious of a guy that personally claimed to WANT Geno, but even take it further as to say that adding a generic Mario enemy was kind of a slap to the face for ALL notable characters yet to get into the game. (By "notable" I'm referring to fan requested or named characters of more renown) Then again, we don't know Sakurai's intent. Maybe he was just that bent on having a gag character. It could have been that he saved some of the more "juicy" characters for DLC in hopes that they would make more money seeing as how I'm sure more people would have bought the like of Banjo, Joker and Hero over PP. Also, we really don't know the true nature of how things are decided between Nintendo and Sakurai, so there could be a lot more in play here than we realize. For example, Nintendo could have decided with SE that Dragon Quest was to take priority before discussing Geno's inclusion, but we can't know for sure. Then we come back you again. As usual, you go and close that little mind of yours to ANY of the possibilities I just mentioned, dismissing any chance that Sakurai or Nintendo had other agendas to cover first before finally getting to Geno.

I could go on but frankly I lack the time and will to waste on convincing someone that refuses to be convinced. Suffice to say, I've refuted your point that my mind is as magnetically sealed as yours is. I can push my biases aside and acknowledge that even ideas contrary to mine can offer merit. Can you? Cuz it sure as hell doesn't look like it. And FYI, if you were to slow your roll and stop acting like the only person with two brain cells to rub together, maybe other threads wouldn't flag you as a troll. Be civil and use ALL the data to make a conclusion. Not just the data that fits your narrative.

1. And? Your entire basis for promotions lies solely on a hypothetical scenario. While I admittedly have gone about it in a super roundabout way, I actually have shown some evidence that leads me to believe that promotions won’t happen in the past.

I have yet to see anything to convince me for the pro Spirit side. Maybe the Famitsu column next week will be an indicator.

2. I have said this in the past, but Nintendo and Sakurai made the conscious decision to choose Banjo over Halo or Minecraft. The demand for Banjo was enough to get him in over them. Meanwhile, FF and DQ got prioritized over Geno, and when they had the rights to him in the base game (before DQ), they made him a Spirit.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I think the difference between that and how smash handles it is that in those games the NPC's usually have 3D models already made for them so it's easier to make them playable.

It's a good thing that Smash also has 3D models of certain popular characters that just need a little shining here and there. But seriously I don't think this is a strong argument, work is still gonna be made towards the animations and attacks (which some assist trophies do have). Whether a character is easier to implement due to a 3D model or not, it doesn't change the fact that it's an upgrade from a previous NPC role. Speaking of which, we kinda already had that happen in Smash 4 with Lucas and Mewtwo.

 

[Cosmic77]

This is factually incorrect regarding Ridley. Whenever a main Metroid game was released he was featured so ridley wasnt exactly forgotten.

His franchise? Now thats been neglected but they at least got a cool Remake.

That's what I was getting at. If Metroid was still largely inactive by Smash 6, I wouldn't have high expectations for Ridley should he have missed out in Ultimate.

Now if he had a major role in a high budget game like Prime 4? One that sparked a new interest in the franchise? That would make me more hopeful, as Sakurai would have more of a reason to add Ridley aside from just fan demand. Same applies to K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Banjo Kazooie is a beloved franchise for Nintendo fans. It started on Nintendo roughly around the time Smash came into existence. Also FF and DQ have their roots on Nintendo. OF COURSE they chose the characters they did.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's what I was getting at. If Metroid was still largely inactive by Smash 6, I wouldn't have high expectations for Ridley should he have missed out in Ultimate.

Now if he had a major role in a high budget game like Prime 4? One that sparked a new interest in the franchise? That would make me more hopeful, as Sakurai would have more of a reason to add Ridley aside from just fan demand. Same applies to K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno.

Eh, the difference is that DK moved on without K.Rool for a long time, Banjo had outright died and Mario left Geno in a ditch. When there's a Metroid game, Ridley's rarely absent.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The only strong case I can think of for Geno is that Super Mario RPG gets a remake. I think it's a likely scenario because Alpha Dream is bankrupt (which really sucks) and Paper Mario has lost its flavor quite some time ago. And I doubt Nintendo is gonna give up on Mario RPGs.

 

[Deleted member]

The only strong case I can think of for Geno is that Super Mario RPG gets a remake. I think it's a likely scenario because Alpha Dream is bankrupt (which really sucks) and Paper Mario has lost its flavor quite some time ago. And I doubt Nintendo is gonna give up on Mario RPGs.

Perhaps. If only they can get the negotiations to good ol' Square...though I would hardly consider this an obstacle.

 

[Cosmic77]

Eh, the difference is that DK moved on without K.Rool for a long time, Banjo had outright died and Mario left Geno in a ditch. When there's a Metroid game, Ridley's rarely absent.

Ridley will never be completely irrelevant so long as a new Metroid game is in the works. Fans of the series like him too much for him to suddenly disappear, and developers seem to consider his presence to be a selling point for their games. Plus, there aren't many fan favorites who could fill in the void should he be absent. Even if K. Rool is missing in action from the DK games, you've still got three or four different Kongs outside DK to flesh out the cast.

I still think Metroid would need something like FE:Awakening to happen to it if Ridley were to get in Smash 6. A renewed interest and more consistent releases would make another Metroid character a higher priority.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Perhaps. If only they can get the negotiations to good ol' Square...though I would hardly consider this an obstacle.

People still acting like Square's stingy despite Sakurai speaking out about how easy they are compared to others and how Sakurai turned down their suggestion of Slime and got them to listen to him and give him damn near total control

 

[Guynamednelson]

Whether a character is easier to implement due to a 3D model or not

It doesn't seem like they take preexisting models into consideration unless they have certain things that make them "fighter ready". For example, Robin's victory pose with Chrom meant Chrom couldn't have AT corner cuts like the lack of a bumpmap.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ridley will never be completely irrelevant so long as a new Metroid game is in the works. Fans of the series like him too much for him to suddenly disappear, and developers seem to consider his presence to be a selling point for their games. Plus, there aren't many fan favorites who could fill in the void should he be absent. Even if K. Rool is missing in action from the DK games, you've still got three or four different Kongs outside DK to flesh out the cast.

I still think Metroid would need something like FE:Awakening to happen to it if Ridley were to get in Smash 6. A renewed interest and more consistent releases would make another Metroid character a higher priority.

Ridley's popularity wasn't caused by people missing him whereas the others were, which is my point, Ridley was different from the others you mentioned. Also why are you speculating on a game that isn't even being considered at Nintendo right now, especially when you're arguing the character who had a lot of fan demand would get cut just because of a circumstance you have no idea will happen or not

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Not saying Geno fans should give up altogether, but I do think Ultimate is set up a little different than Brawl and Smash 4.

One thing that Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno all have in common is that they haven't done much in recent years outside Smash. A large amount of fan support was basically the only thing keeping them alive. So far, Sakurai has added all but Geno, which makes me consider his absence on the roster but presence as a Spirit to be a very telling sign. I'd probably be saying the same thing about Ridley if K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno all got in without him and he returned as a boss on Pyrosphere.

Again, not saying Geno fans should abandon their character and give up, but I do think they should acknowledge that something needs to change, because popularity alone clearly isn't cutting it. There needs to be some new development that would make Sakurai change his mind, such as Geno resurfacing and being relevant in Mario games again. I don't feel like he or any of the other characters mentioned in this post would have a better chance in the next Smash game with their current relevancy, especially when cut characters will be competition for DLC spots.

Thing is that Smash is the one Nintendo game where fan demand clearly has the most influence. It may or may not be enough in Geno's case, but voicing support for him in Smash is much more likely to go somewhere than trying to do the same thing for Mario RPGs or Mario Kart, because there's no real equivalent to the Smash speculation scene for those games. K. Rool fans had the same mentality, they knew that getting him into Smash was also their best shot at seeing him return in DKC too, and while the result of that remains to be seen, he certainly stands a much better chance at returning in his home series now than beforehand (as seen with Lord Fredrik, who's essentially just a K. Rool stand-in).

I do agree that things will look incredibly bad for Geno should he not make it into Ultimate, but it's also much too early to predict anything about Smash 6, what direction they're going to go in with newcomer additions will depend on so many unknown factor. I'd say that on the face of it they're probably going to go in yet another new direction, as Smash 4 is the only case of them essentially just doing more of the same (and even then its newcomer additions were still quite different from Brawl's), but your guess is as good as mine.

Either way, that's a bit besides the point. I get that many people are tired of hearing about Geno (this thread being a good example), but I do think it's especially important for Geno fans to be there in his most difficult moments. Right now it's all fun and games as there's reason to believe he stands a good chance, but it's when the hammer falls that his fans are more needed than ever, and I hope they stick by their character if it comes to that.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The only strong case I can think of for Geno is that Super Mario RPG gets a remake.

Hell to the yes.

Take the story of Super Mario RPG, add the art style of Paper Mario, and the gameplay mechanics of the M&L games. The perfect Mario RPG.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hell to the yes.

Take the story of Super Mario RPG, add the art style of Paper Mario, and the gameplay mechanics of the M&L games. The perfect Mario RPG.

Damn. Now that's something I'd like to see.

 

[PeridotGX]

Ridley will never be completely irrelevant so long as a new Metroid game is in the works. Fans of the series like him too much for him to suddenly disappear, and developers seem to consider his presence to be a selling point for their games. Plus, there aren't many fan favorites who could fill in the void should he be absent. Even if K. Rool is missing in action from the DK games, you've still got three or four different Kongs outside DK to flesh out the cast.

I still think Metroid would need something like FE:Awakening to happen to it if Ridley were to get in Smash 6. A renewed interest and more consistent releases would make another Metroid character a higher priority.

I don't think Ridley's in much danger of being cut in Smash 6. Unless the roster gets cut down to Melee size, Metroid can afford to have two reps, and Ridley's the obvious choice. Plus, I can't imagine Sakurai would want to discard the Ridley moveset after it took so long to make.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sakurai has said that no third party has ever turned down a negotiation.

This is not true. It was Reggie who said that. Sakurai's actually said there were characters that he couldn't get for Smash 4 DLC, including Snake.

Cloud and Hero clearly were prioritized by him and Nintendo. If his demand was seen as high priority, they wouldn’t have made him a Spirit in the first place when finally getting the rights to him.

There's a difference between not being the highest priority and not being a priority. I fail to see how hard it is to understand that just because Geno didn't get in over representatives of the two biggest RPG franchises ever, means he isn't getting in.

If anything, the more Square Enix characters that get in, the less competition he has, therefore the likelier he gets.

it absolutely makes no sense to finally get the rights to someone, only to relegate them to a Spirit if he truly wanted him to be playable at all

I like how you absolutely ignored when everyone explained to you how rights actually work.

But then again, that's your MO, isn't it? Ignore everything that disproves your points, only reply to the answers that don't, and mock the fanbase as if talking to you wasn't also like talking to a wall.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't think Ridley's in much danger of being cut in Smash 6. Unless the roster gets cut down to Melee size, Metroid can afford to have two reps, and Ridley's the obvious choice. Plus, I can't imagine Sakurai would want to discard the Ridley moveset after it took so long to make.

Are you kidding? Ridley's not going anywhere. He's way too popular and notable to cut.

I was making a hypothetical scenario if Ridley never got in Ultimate. If we were looking at his odds in Smash 6, I think he'd need a game like Prime 4 to boost his chances of getting in.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Are you kidding? Ridley's not going anywhere. He's way too popular and notable to cut.

I was making a hypothetical scenario if Ridley never got in Ultimate. If we were looking at his odds in Smash 6, I think he'd need a game like Prime 4 to boost his chances of getting in.

This is ignoring how Sakurai was aware of Samus Returns as seen by the fact the game has representation, including it's version of Magmoor Caverns. Samus Returns also gave Ridley a bigger role by making him the final boss.