Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

O.K., now we really need to talk about the possibility of Kratos joining Smash Bros. have increased!

What was always just an impossibility started to make me interested. From the moment Sakurai makes a post showing that he played 242 Playstation games just last year. I know that the reasons can be very varied. But I did not disregard a hint for Sony studios. So, I thought about it better and researched a little more. And in fact, now we see a rumor pointing to a possible PS4 remote play on the Switch. And yes, Microsoft and Nintendo are already building a good relationship. And Nintendo has been calling Sony to the party for some time now. I wonder what it would be necessary to give Sony in exchange for doing something of this magnitude, considering the current market. I believe it is a subject for a separate post. But I didn't seem to have any recent posts dealing with the subject in the forum. Even so I decided to post here first. Here are two articles dealing with the subject:

https://www.igamesnews.com/nintendo...42-playstation-titles-in-2019-igamesnews-com/

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/pers...ow-to-download-nintendo-switch-controls-guide

 

[Will]

Hmm this is interesting

#SmashBros #NintendoSwitch Interesting, if you own the Cuphead costume you get Mii Gunner instead of Mega Man. pic.twitter.com/tt9WqSXpfq

— Dr. Jojo Phantasma (@VampirePhantasm) February 14, 2020

So paid DLC can appear in free spirit events but only if you own the DLC... they’ll have a free alternative for those that don’t own the DLC (in this case, Megaman)

But you have the data for the costumes, because you can fight them online, so why not just fight the costumes as is?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

O.K., now we really need to talk about the possibility of Kratos joining Smash Bros. have increased.

What was always just an impossibility started to make me interested. From the moment Sakurai makes a post showing that he played 242 Playstation games just last year. I know that the reasons can be very varied. But I did not disregard a hint for Sony studios. So, I thought about it better and researched a little more. And in fact, now we see a rumor pointing to a possible PS4 remote play on the Switch. And yes, Microsoft and Nintendo are already building a good relationship. And Nintendo has been calling Sony to the party for some time now. I wonder what it would be necessary to give Sony in exchange for doing something of this magnitude, considering the current market. I believe it is a subject for a separate post. But I didn't seem to have any recent posts dealing with the subject in the forum. Even so I decided to post here first. Here are two articles dealing with the subject:

https://www.igamesnews.com/nintendo...42-playstation-titles-in-2019-igamesnews-com/

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/pers...ow-to-download-nintendo-switch-controls-guide

I'm surprised you're not mentioning how the crossplay now applies to low profile games like Battle For The Grid or Death Stranding and Horizon Zero Dawn getting PC ports

 

[Knight Dude]

I can relate to not having the cash to own multiple systems. Only reason I own as many games as I do now is buying a lot of them years later when they are (usually) MUCH cheaper or by saving all the old stuff. But even then there's plenty of stuff that either broke or we had to sell at one point or another. I got mostly familiar with Sony and Nintendo stuff with the latter mostly being handhelds, barring the GCN and Switch. But I had other family and friends who had X-Box's so I wasn't super picky about it either. Occasionally there were Arcade games too, but those kind of died out in the US. Luckily I got most of my old stuff, even if some of it is worn down.

Still, if ever given the chance, I always recommend branching out. Especially if you have the income. I'm glad I got to try out other fighting games besides Tekken, even if Tekken is still my favorite series. Getting better at fireball motions in MVC3(before the disc got messed up) helped me to get better at Soul Calibur, and then again in Tekken. Hell, branching out a bit from Mega Man/Mario/Metroid led me to stuff like Shovel Knight and Shantae and I like those games quite a bit too.

You'll never know what you'll find.

To be more on topic, I don't know if 2B is iconic or not. Cause I feel like for something to iconic, it kind of needs time on its side to prove it's case. So many things that are popular now can be iconic, if the appeal lasts. Granted I'm sure 2B is probably gonna be one of those characters, even if her franchise by comparison is much more obscure than Persona and especially Dragon Quest in the larger scope of the video game medium.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Quite bizarre as NieR Automata's like Persona 5 as I cannot possibly escape seeing it everywhere despite not owning a system for them until recently, and believe me, I wish I saw less of P5.
I was born in 97, so that was a bit too late. The most memories I had of the thing was seeing a friend play what I think was Pokemon Snap, all I remember in a guy in vehicles. Which is another factor to sheltered fans, did all these people just not hang out with friends and play games at their place? Cause I got into Sonic games by playing on a friend's Xbox, learned about GTA and surprisingly enough ThebGodfather while being scolded by my mother for how naughty it was to do that.

Yeah, I agree with in Banjo then. He was one of the faces of the N64, but as Microsoft purchased Banjo at the beginning on the next gen he quickly faded. This is why older gamers know him very well, but younger gamers have never heard of him, even less than his other 90s counterparts like Spyro and Crash.

 

[Will]

This is why older gamers know him very well, but younger gamers have never heard of him

Banjo has been shoved down my throat for the past six years I've been this on this website, which is my entire teenage life, so it's not that I've never heard of him, I just don't really care about it. Not a big fan of cereal mascots, either.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, I agree with in Banjo then. He was one of the faces of the N64, but as Microsoft purchased Banjo at the beginning on the next gen he quickly faded. This is why older gamers know him very well, but younger gamers have never heard of him, even less than his other 90s counterparts like Spyro and Crash.

Despite that Crash and Spyro still kept getting new games so I'm not sure that's an accurate comparison, especially as they were bigger deals than Banjo was even in his hayday

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

I'm surprised you're not mentioning how the crossplay now applies to low profile games like Battle For The Grid or Death Stranding and Horizon Zero Dawn getting PC ports

I really didn't even realize it. There must be several other situations as well. Aside from the obvious ones, like Microsoft already letting a Rare character enter the game. And yet, the possibility remains that a truly Microsoft character will enter the game, such as Master Chief.

P.S .: Why did the image get so big ?!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Despite that Crash and Spyro still kept getting new games so I'm not sure that's an accurate comparison, especially as they were bigger deals than Banjo was even in his hayday

Correct. Crash was the face of the PS1, whereas Banjo was the fourth face of the N64 behind MARIO, Link, and Pikachu

 

[Turtlar]

To be more on topic, I don't know if 2B is iconic or not. Cause I feel like for something to iconic, it kind of needs time on its side to prove it's case. So many things that are popular now can be iconic, if the appeal lasts. Granted I'm sure 2B is probably gonna be one of those characters, even if her franchise by comparison is much more obscure than Persona and especially Dragon Quest in the larger scope of the video game medium.

I would like to second this, because it's a really good point. Popular and iconic are definitely not one and the same. 2B is for sure popular right now, but it's much too early to say she's iconic. Back in my much more fanboy-ish youth, I swore up and down that in ten years, nobody would even remember what Halo was. We're closing in on two decades later, and while Halo isn't dominating the industry like it once was, it's still immensely popular with millions of fans, myself included.

 

[TechPowah]

But you have the data for the costumes, because you can fight them online, so why not just fight the costumes as is?

because online data = / = offline data
that's specifically why we haven't had spirit fights use DLC costumes until now
it's why you can't save replays with DLC you don't own

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I seriously doubt most people even in online communities knew of Shantae prior to her revival in the early 2010s. The Gameboy Color version had a production of like less than 25,000 copies and didn't sale well to begin with, leading to original carts going for hundreds of dollars these days. She's largely become a "Classic GBC character" only with the hindsight of a full decade later in which her game was finally re-released and people paid more attention to it since it's also one of the few GBC games that hasn't aged like absolute **** (seriously, there's very little of the GB/GBC's library that is enjoyable to play any more, the handful of titles that have survived as enjoyable are basically all you have to form those lists).

 

[Knight Dude]

It IS still weird to see some people swear up and down that certain franchises and characters are practically nobodies though. I might not be interested in playing Dragon Quest or Persona, but I could still tell what they were. Granted I learned about Banjo&Kazooie during the PS2 era, since I started with PS1/GBC. Basically, I knew more of Tekken/Spyro than Banjo&Kazooie. Though I did already know of Mario/Mega Man/Sonic and Metroid somehow. I didn't get super familiar with B&K, I could just recognize them with the whole "Rare bought by Microsoft" stuff. If there was a Rare series I knew a bit more of, it was Killer Instinct.

Anyway, the moral of the story is, play CvS2 if you haven't already. It's a good game. Shin Akuma/Omega Rugal would mix your **** up though. It's one of the first times Ryu and Terry can beat the **** outta each other.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Correct. Crash was the face of the PS1, whereas Banjo was the fourth face of the N64 behind MARIO, Link, and Pikachu

I'd argue Cloud was moreso the face of the PS1 considering how big of a deal FF7 was, and although I can't speak for Spyro, haven't all 3 of Crash's main games on the ps1 outsold Banjo's lifetime sales? That's what I mean, Sony decided to market themselves as the hardcore crowd which helped drive people towards Sony, letting Nintendo down realize they are no longer the kings

 

[Knight Dude]

I seriously doubt most people even in online communities knew of Shantae prior to her revival in the early 2010s. The Gameboy Color version had a production of like less than 25,000 copies and didn't sale well to begin with, leading to original carts going for hundreds of dollars these days. She's largely become a "Classic GBC character" only with the hindsight of a full decade later in which her game was finally re-released and people paid more attention to it since it's also one of the few GBC games that hasn't aged like absolute **** (seriously, there's very little of the GB/GBC's library that is enjoyable to play any more, the handful of titles that have survived as enjoyable are basically all you have to form those lists).

Would it be weird to say I remember some old game ad that had Shantae 1 on it? I think it also had ads for an early MMBN and MMZ game too. Granted I only got to start playing Shantae's games on 3DS, cause I sure as hell never bought it back in the day. I was glad I got to eventually try them out though. Same thing with Viewtiful Joe. I saw an ad, but never the game itself, but I though Joe looked badass.

I had this one Shonen Jump Comic collection that had ad-pages for Mega Man BN6 and Mega Man ZX as well. I remember wanting to play them, but never finding them, so I bought the GBA version of Yoshi's Island. ****ing Gregar Beast-Out looked like the coolest thing ever.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I seriously doubt most people even in online communities knew of Shantae prior to her revival in the early 2010s. The Gameboy Color version had a production of like less than 25,000 copies and didn't sale well to begin with, leading to original carts going for hundreds of dollars these days. She's largely become a "Classic GBC character" only with the hindsight of a full decade later in which her game was finally re-released and people paid more attention to it since it's also one of the few GBC games that hasn't aged like absolute **** (seriously, there's very little of the GB/GBC's library that is enjoyable to play any more, the handful of titles that have survived as enjoyable are basically all you have to form those lists).

to be honest, there are quite some games... maybe not 300, but a good enough amount of them that are still enjoyable do exist.

Super Mario Land II (1 aged bad IMO), Warioland from 1 to 3, Zelda Link's Awakening (DX), Kirby's Dream Land 2, Donkey Kong (sequel of the arcade game that connects it to the Mario vs DK series) Super Mario Bros Deluxe (enhanced remake with a lot of additional content) and some more, to cite the big Nintendo ones... but there are others more obscure ones such as Trip World and stuff.
If you know where to look, there are still some gems on GB/GBC, just like on any other console.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I wonder if there's some kind of paradox in that information being more easily accessible also makes it easier to ignore? Just spitballing here and this may be anecdotal but it felt like back in the day when the internet was a fledgling beast and all we could do was buy gaming magazines and go to friends' houses to get our gaming knowledge people were hungrier to find out about a larger variety of gaming, no doubt aided by the console wars still being a thing. Even if it was just to make fun of it, a Nintendo fan knew about Sega's exclusives.

Then again, video games as a whole are still exciting to me. I know when I watch an E3 conference that isn't the Nintendo direct I'm going to find a few games I'll actually want to get, but not the majority. Honestly, I only found out about Nier Automata because of the original trailer where they censored the subtitle, and I only found out about Nier as a whole because of my friend who said it was one of the best PS3 games he ever played. But since then, 2B has been everywhere. You just have to go to any anime or gaming con and you'll run into multiple 2Bs at any time.

Overall I think it's stupid to argue over what constitutes "iconic" or to judge Smash on whether a rando will recognize X character or Y character. As shown by Chuggaaconroy's video where his mother tries to guess the names of the characters in the Smash Ultimate roster, that would lead to a very, very pared down roster. It's a video game for people who like to play video games. That's fine.

Still, phrases like "I hadn't even heard of Dragon Quest before Smash!" are concerning, like................okay man

I think the bolded part is rather interesting, combined with the fact that the gaming sphere is much larger than it was 25 years ago.

It might feel like there is too much to know, kind of an information overload that prevents people from researching about games. Even if I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about general gaming things, I'm gonna have blindspots or gaps unless I'm a professional video game historian due to just how vast the sea of content is.

 

[JustMyself13]

I'd argue Cloud was moreso the face of the PS1 considering how big of a deal FF7 was, and although I can't speak for Spyro, haven't all 3 of Crash's main games on the ps1 outsold Banjo's lifetime sales? That's what I mean, Sony decided to market themselves as the hardcore crowd which helped drive people towards Sony, letting Nintendo down realize they are no longer the kings

Uhh especially in the 90s, Crash was THE Sony mascot and arguably has reclaimed that spot to a degree. I wouldn’t say at all that Cloud was advertised more than Crash was.

 

[Knight Dude]

Spyro 1 sold like 4 million, and Spyro 2 and 3 sold more than 3 million each. Though that's still solidly behind some Crash and Tomb Raider titles, not to mention FF7, MGS, Tekken 3 and a few others.

 

[ZenythSmash]

Now we know it's possible for Joker's red alt to be in a potential Dante spirit battle (which won't happen cause it's either Dante's in Smash or no DMC content at all).

i personally think Joker would fit better for Nero's spirit battle than Dante's tbh
imagine you fight Roy in the first half to represent for his Red Queen and Arsene Joker on the next half to represent his Devil Trigger
im not entirely sure who else would be the free alternative for the latter half tho (maybe Dark Samus?)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Now we know it's possible for Joker's red alt to be in a potential Dante spirit battle (which won't happen cause it's either Dante's in Smash or no DMC content at all).

Why not? I can understand this being the case for Sora because Disney, but I don’t think Dante has such stringent licensing circumstances

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Kinda odd, I'm trying to get the Cuphead spirits but they won't spawn.

 

[TechPowah]

Now we know it's possible for Joker's red alt to be in a potential Dante spirit battle (which won't happen cause it's either Dante's in Smash or no DMC content at all).

I doubt they'd make the backup for not owning a DLC character in a spirit fight
replaced with another DLC character
they'll make it a base roster character instead because that way they don't need to make multiple contingency plans for someone not owning two completely unrelated DLC packs

Why not? I can understand this being the case for Sora because Disney, but I don’t think Dante has such stringent licensing circumstances

I think he means more that
DMC isn't the kind of series to JUST get a spirit or Mii costume
it's an all or nothing on whether Dante gets into the game
<then again, Resident Evil....>

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean it’s entirely possible Capcom or even Arc System Works can get another Spirit Event based on one of their franchises. Maybe even SEGA for say, Phantasy Star or Shenmue or something

on a side note, Square Enix hasn’t gotten a Spirit Event on one of their other franchises, and Bandai Namco hasn’t either...

 

[Knight Dude]

I think people would be less pissed at others not knowing certain franchises and characters if the responses to the characters they didn't know or immediately didn't like much wasn't completely dismissive or fill with anger. People who didn't know Dante when he was really rumored before Byleth's reveal thought he was some brooding edgy guy, instead of him generally being playful and having a lot of bravado (granted at times that's a facade, but you get the point.) That's just one example.

On top of that, because the "Smash Bubble" has it's own characters people give a **** about, but aren't exactly popular within the general video game audience (or are just less so) I think that leads to people getting frustrated when characters that are, by all intents and purposes more known overall, are suddenly "obscure" when dealing with a different audience. It's something I can be guilty of too, but sometimes you gotta let **** slide I guess. I'm not even a huge Crash fan, but I found it kind of baffling to not consider Crash an iconic character, even if he's not in his heyday, his games were huge. Or at least try to introduce people to said character without berating them too much. Hell that's kind of what the whole Shantae vs 2B thing was all about.

Start out getting mad and that'll just get people to be mad at you for said anger. So it might be a good idea to get to know some new character you aren't familiar with, cause they might be up your alley.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Happy Valentine's Day y'all.

Pac-Man got all those boring alts but they couldn't get Ms.Pac-Man in??? pic.twitter.com/hHyEYfPsVo

— JOLLY J✨ (@DynamoSuperX) February 7, 2020

 

[TechPowah]

@Velveeta Dream i just realized you didn't mean Joker replacing Dante in a DMC spirit for not owning him, you meant Joker being the proxy for Dante himself in the event he gets RE'd

that's my bad, and now your comment makes much more sense

 

[MooMew64]

The preference doesn't annoy me, it's the faulty logic behind it that does. People are allowed to want whoever they want, but I'm just pointing out that "it's a once in a lifetime chance" is not a good justification. I attempted to explain why. Do you have a counterpoint to that?

Dude, people don't need a "counterpoint" to voice their preferences and opinions. People like Scoliosis Jones were just voicing how they think new franchises would benefit the game more and be cooler in their opinion because it adds to the crossover. Adding in more characters to already repped series adds nothing to the crossover, it's just more of what we already have.

I don't even share this opinion. I just don't think it was very cool of y'all to jump on people for expressing what they wanted simply because it goes against what you want. It sucks the fun out of discussion and makes it seem like everyone has to think and feel the same way, or else they're "wrong" for having a different opinion. :/

 

[Schnee117]

I think people would be less pissed at others not knowing certain franchises and characters if the responses to the characters they didn't know or immediately didn't like much wasn't completely dismissive or fill with anger..

That and you're on the internet where you have ease of access to millions of different pages, videos, images, articles and the like from a single search engine.
You can literally type in a character's name and learn about them yourself. People instead like to proudly display their ignorance and go "LiTeRaLlY wHo?" instead of taking the initiative and doing some basic research.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

if KH got a spirit event, whowould represent Sora and Riku? Robin and Chrom?

 

[Dinoman96]

Resident Evil is literally Capcom's most successful franchise ever and all it got in Smash was a spirit event. I don't see why makes a DMC spirit event so sacrilege in that regard.

 

[SNEKeater]

This could all be easily explained:

Some people either only play 1 game and Smash or just don't pay attention

I knew a guy in college who played Smash but had no idea who any of the newcomers for Ultimate even were except for Incineroar because he only played Pokemon. Some people are just like that.

That's fine. I don't think that sticking to 1, 2 or 3 games is a bad thing or something. Each one of us enjoy games in a different way. I know some individuals that barely play other games besides League of Legends, for example.
I don't have anything against them. While personally I don't see really exciting to stick with the same few franchises, games or platforms during all your life, I respect how everyone enjoys videogames.

I'm surprised you're not mentioning how the crossplay now applies to low profile games like Battle For The Grid or Death Stranding and Horizon Zero Dawn getting PC ports

To clarify, Horizon Zero Dawn isn't getting a PC port, or at least it isn't official at this moment. For now a PC version of the game is just a rumour.

The Playstation game I would bet all my chips that will be on PC is Dreams.

 

[Will]

Happy Valentine's Day y'all.

Pac-Man got all those boring alts but they couldn't get Ms.Pac-Man in??? pic.twitter.com/hHyEYfPsVo

— JOLLY J✨ (@DynamoSuperX) February 7, 2020

PAC-MAN's alts are almost as bad as Young Link's.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Dude, people don't need a "counterpoint" to voice their preferences and opinions. People like Scoliosis Jones were just voicing how they think new franchises would benefit the game more and be cooler in their opinion because it adds to the crossover. Adding in more characters to already repped series adds nothing to the crossover, it's just more of what we already have.

I don't even share this opinion. I just don't think it was very cool of y'all to jump on people for expressing what they wanted simply because it goes against what you want. It sucks the fun out of discussion and makes it seem like everyone has to think and feel the same way, or else they're "wrong" for having a different opinion. :/

If I may... I disagree with Grief and yet I don't think he was jumping on anyone. The point of his post was that "it's the last chance we'll get, so it's best to add more new series for the sake of adding them" isn't really a good argument, because we don't know the future of Smash.

Even if my opinions on the matter are opposite of his, I think it's a good point. And I don't think it hinders discussion either, because it makes us reconsider something that gets repeated over here all the time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Uhh especially in the 90s, Crash was THE Sony mascot and arguably has reclaimed that spot to a degree. I wouldn’t say at all that Cloud was advertised more than Crash was.

I mean, FF7 was advertised on prime time TV, dunno what to say about Crash as I don't know if he was or not

 

[Faso115]

The one thing i see going against 2B is the outfit

Pretty sure Yoko wouldnt like seeing her more covered up you know :v

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

The one thing i see going against 2B is the outfit

Pretty sure Yoko wouldnt lile seeing her more covered up you know :v

all thats an issue is panty shots which dont fly for Smash anyway so yeah its either giver her shorts or dont put her in because of Yoko

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

all thats an issue is panty shots which dont fly for Smash anyway so yeah its either giver her shorts or dont put her in

Yeah, 2B doesn't show that much cleavage compared to say Mythra (and her spirit), so she should be able to be censored as much as Bayonetta.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The one thing i see going against 2B is the outfit

Pretty sure Yoko wouldnt like seeing her more covered up you know :v

Yoko Taro's on record for saying he'd do anything for money so he'd put 2B in a floofy ass parka if they paid him enough

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Yeah, 2B doesn't show that much cleavage compared to say Mythra (and her spirit), so she should be able to be censored as much as Bayonetta.

I actually find 2B to be really pretty. Only issue with her and her games is the panty shots, the gross achevment for looking up her skirt and the stupid selfdestuct thing that just makes her cloths come off.

other then that, Shes pretty just add shorts and she would be Gucci