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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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3BitSaurus

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In terms of a 2nd unique character from third party franchises: would I rather have Arle instead of Tails or 2B instead of Sephiroth? Yes, absolutely, because I think they could bring more new things to the game. But characters like Tails and Sephiroth wouldn't feel like "missed opportunities" to me either, because... it's Tails and Sephiroth. I honestly don't think "we need to expand this while we can" is a good justification for it either, because there's more to Arle or 2B than just being from a new series, regardless.

As for "third parties need to be special"... we have 14 of them already and they practically dominate speculation these days. I'd argue that third parties stopped being a novelty a long time ago.
 
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nessdeltarune00

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I’m fairly certain that’s not how tights work. When Sakurai got the rights for Geno, he was only allowed to use him as a spirit. When you gain the rights for someone you can’t use them how you want, you can only use them in the role that is agreed on which in this case is a spirit. His mii outfit was made a pretty big deal out of and he only got a mii outfit due to the constant demand
>Still pulling the “Square is stingy” card, huh.

C’mon man, we literally got 4 Heroes. Sakurai made the conscious decision to make him a Spirit. I guess he was also forced to make Shantae and Rayman Spirits?
 

osby

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>Still pulling the “Square is stingy” card, huh.

C’mon man, we literally got 4 Heroes. Sakurai made the conscious decision to make him a Spirit. I guess he was also forced to make Shantae and Rayman Spirits?
That's not SE being stingy, that's how royalties work.

If a third party got paid for an artwork of a character Sakurai can't just make them a fighter without renegotiating. It's the same with any third party content, not just for SE.
 

Kokiden

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Maybe it's just the FF department that is stingy.

Hero's inclusion and content was definitely generous, especially in regards to his alts.
 

Herocin

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>Still pulling the “Square is stingy” card, huh.

C’mon man, we literally got 4 Heroes. Sakurai made the conscious decision to make him a Spirit. I guess he was also forced to make Shantae and Rayman Spirits?
I’m saying they both came to an agreement he was only a spirit.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Hmm this is interesting

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So paid DLC can appear in free spirit events but only if you own the DLC... they’ll have a free alternative for those that don’t own the DLC (in this case, Megaman)
 

Curious Villager

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Hmm this is interesting

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So paid DLC can appear in free spirit events but only if you own the DLC... they’ll have a free alternative for those that don’t own the DLC (in this case, Megaman)
Oh that's nice to know.
I wonder if they would update any past spirits with alternate battles with any DLC content that may be more fitting as well that way.
Probably not worth the effort to go through the backlog every time for that but yeah....
 
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Eldrake

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Hmm this is interesting

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So paid DLC can appear in free spirit events but only if you own the DLC... they’ll have a free alternative for those that don’t own the DLC (in this case, Megaman)
I think this opens up the possibility of future spirit battles using DLC fighters with an alternative in the event the player don't own the necessary DLC.
 

Cap'n Jack

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Hell yeah you're wrong, 2B's game sold 5 million copies, a highly impressive feat considering her franchise was ridiculously niche. Most modern gamers can look at 2B and go "Yup that's 2B from NieR Automata"
I had no idea who 2B was prior to Smash speculation.
 

nessdeltarune00

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I think this opens up the possibility of future spirit battles using DLC fighters with an alternative in the event the player don't own the necessary DLC.
Thats a bit of a stretch, don’t you think.

That's not SE being stingy, that's how royalties work.

If a third party got paid for an artwork of a character Sakurai can't just make them a fighter without renegotiating. It's the same with any third party content, not just for SE.
It doesn’t matter, Sakurai could’ve easily negotiated for a playable Geno right then and there, but he opted for a Spirit instead. And we know now it had nothing to do with Square, so the decision and negotiations were 100% made by Sakurai and Nintendo.

I don’t know why people seem to forget this very important fact. Not to mention he is a legendary Spirit as well.
 
D

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Hmm this is interesting

[twitter post]

So paid DLC can appear in free spirit events but only if you own the DLC... they’ll have a free alternative for those that don’t own the DLC (in this case, Megaman)
Now we know it's possible for Joker's red alt to be in a potential Dante spirit battle (which won't happen cause it's either Dante's in Smash or no DMC content at all).
 

Cutie Gwen

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I had no idea who 2B was prior to Smash speculation.
Genuine question here, do you own multiple gaming systems or care solely about Nintendo? Also, people would give me **** for not knowing Banjo or Geno prior to Smash speculation and people pretended to not have heard of SNK or Dragon Quest AT ALL so what is the point of this
 

Rie Sonomura

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Update: if you have the Cuphead costume, whatever music plays in the Cuphead/Mugman Spirit battles if you don’t own it is replaced with Floral Fury
 
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clearandsweet

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I think this opens up the possibility of future spirit battles using DLC fighters with an alternative in the event the player don't own the necessary DLC.
Update: if you have the Cuphead costume, whatever music plays in the Cuphead/Mugman Spirit battles if you don’t own it is replaced with Floral Fury
What do you mean! Shantae or Isaac or Rayman could NEVER be DLC because the game would break if they changed their WoL spirit battles! It's impossible!
 

nessdeltarune00

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I had no idea who 2B was prior to Smash speculation.
Why is this place such an echo chamber?

Its really not that hard to branch outside systems not named Nintendo, you know. And I had no idea who Geno, Shantae, and Isaac were prior to Smash speculation as someone who has been in the general gaming community for awhile now. (Kind of shows just how much of echo chamber picks they really are, lol)
 
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P.Kat

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Hmm this is interesting

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So paid DLC can appear in free spirit events but only if you own the DLC... they’ll have a free alternative for those that don’t own the DLC (in this case, Megaman)
Update: if you have the Cuphead costume, whatever music plays in the Cuphead/Mugman Spirit battles if you don’t own it is replaced with Floral Fury
That's great to know. So DLC can potentially change how spirit battles are done. That can only mean good things in the future, and quite possibly for some spirit characters.
 

Turtlar

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Why is this place such an echo chamber?

Its really not that hard to branch outside systems not named Nintendo, you know. And I had no idea who Geno, Shantae, and Isaac were prior to Smash speculation as someone who has been in the general gaming community for awhile now. (Kind of shows just how much of echo chamber picks they really are, lol)
It is if you don't have a ton of disposable income? I have a large collection of consoles now, but when I was younger I could only afford one at time. Video games are an expensive hobby.
 

Guynamednelson

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Hmm this is interesting

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So paid DLC can appear in free spirit events but only if you own the DLC... they’ll have a free alternative for those that don’t own the DLC (in this case, Megaman)
I wish they did this before. Like changing Ryo's Mii Brawler to use his costume, or Bewear to use pink Banjo rather than DK.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I wish they did this before. Like changing Ryo's Mii Brawler to use his costume, or Bewear to use pink Banjo rather than DK.
They could patch it? Maybe also replace Shulk in Rex’s Spirit battle with his Mii if they ever decide to
 

ChunkySlugger72

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I mean, quite a few Sony characters have support threads these days. I think as long as Sony was as willing as Microsoft, it would almost certainly be the next territory for Smash to expand to. Only problem is getting Sony to agree, but I think even that is kinda overblown.
It would definitely be something to see Sony have a major 1st Party franchise/character appear in Smash, But it seems like something Sony wouldn't want to be a part of or cooperate with.I still think even though he's owned by Activision that Crash Bandicoot makes the most sense to really represent the Playstation brand as the "Honorary" mascot.

It's still crazy to think that a longtime requested character like Banjo-Kazooie was always seen as a middle of the pack or back end requested pick that some people didn't think was worth fighting for because of legal issues and being owned by a competitor in Microsoft, But the moment Phil Spencer gave the "Ok" and was willing to play ball back in 2015 that's when Banjo-Kazooie's stock shot right up and started to build steam and continued snowballing until that historic moment at E3 2019.

I mean even though Banjo-Kazooie used to be owned by Nintendo as a 2nd Party Character, It still blows my mind that we actually have a 1st Party Microsoft Xbox character in Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

I doubt it will happen anytime soon as I would think Sony would rather take another shot at a sequel to "Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale", But if the CEO of the Playstation division ever gave the "Ok" then it would be really interesting to see threads for Ratchet & Clank, Nathan Drake and Kratos to really start taking off.
 
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nessdeltarune00

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It is if you don't have a ton of disposable income? I have a large collection of consoles now, but when I was younger I could only afford one at time. Video games are an expensive hobby.
I understand this is the case sometimes.

However, there are also many instances of people choosing one console/company, sticking with it, and refusing to branch out. I always thought the “console wars” are incredibly stupid, and I still do to this day.

Also, this place is no doubt an echo chamber when I see arguments like “Crash isn’t that popular” and “Shantae is very iconic!”
 
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3BitSaurus

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It would definitely be something to see Sony have a major 1st Party franchise/character appear in Smash, But it seems like something Sony wouldn't want to be a part of or cooperate with.I still think even though he's owned by Activision that Crash Bandicoot makes the most sense to really represent the Playstation brand as the "Honorary" mascot.

It's still crazy to think that a longtime requested character like Banjo-Kazooie was always seen as a middle of the pack or back end requested pick that some people didn't think was worth fighting for because of legal issues and being owned by a competitor in Microsoft, But the moment Phil Spencer gave the "Ok" and was willing to play ball back in 2015 that's when Banjo-Kazooie's stock shot right up and started to build steam and continued snowballing until that historic moment at E3 2019.

I mean even though Banjo-Kazooie used to be 2nd Party Nintendo property it still blows my mind we have a 1st Party Microsoft Xbox character in Super Smash Bros.

I doubt it will happen anytime soon as I would think Sony would rather take another shot at a sequel to "Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale", But if the CEO of the Playstation division ever gave the "Ok" then it would be really interesting to see threads for Ratchet & Clank, Nathan Drake and Kratos to really start taking off.
I guess even if Sony's chances are low now, the sheer fact that we are considering the possibility for future Smash titles shows how far the series has reached. I remember seeing threads for Kratos, Kat and Parappa a while back.

Seeing Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony all together in the copyright list of a single game would be a crazy historical moment for gaming, really.
 

SNEKeater

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Genuine question here, do you own multiple gaming systems or care solely about Nintendo? Also, people would give me **** for not knowing Banjo or Geno prior to Smash speculation and people pretended to not have heard of SNK or Dragon Quest AT ALL so what is the point of this
Yeah... I mean, nothing wrong to be a player who only cares for one platform or a concrete genre, each one of us have differente tastes and interests. Also, some people may can't afford to have more than 1 console or maybe they don't want to own more than one platform for some reason.

At the same time each gamer (I don't like at all the word but I would use it to simplify things), due to their tastes, will be in different circles and communities, and in some of these bubbles certain games or genres are barely discussed. A hardcore player of fighting games doesn't have to be aware of every JRPG franchise if they only play fighting games, and the same can be said the other way around.
But if you're someone who usually is aware of the general news in the videogame industry, I find SUPER hard to not have heard of Nier Automata a single time... same can be said for SNK/King of Fighters or Dragon Quest.

Seriously, I can totally understand each person is different and has different priorities. But when I read things like "I didn't heard of Dragon Quest until Smash", I honestly can't believe it, even if the franchise isn't super popular in the west as it is in Japan, new DQ games are regularly released and if you're mostly a Nintendo player, I can't think of any scenario where a Nintendo hardcore fan haven't heard of DQ when it's usually featured in Directs and promoted by Nintendo itself.

Something similar applies to Nier Automata. Certainly the game isn't on Switch, so people who only plays on Nintendo consoles and their way to learn about gaming news is through Nintendo related websites, then I can see them being unaware of 2B and her game.
But outside of that scenario, I have a hard time thinking of anyone who claims to be aware of the general news in the videogame industry in the last years and not have heard of Nier Automata in any capacity.

Even if some people can't afford or simply aren't interest in other platforms or other genres, being informed in the present is very easy. Smash speculation should help to that due to it's nature of crossover and I would imagine that most of the community would be more open to other games, but sometimes it seems that Smash bubble produces the opposite effect.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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It is if you don't have a ton of disposable income? I have a large collection of consoles now, but when I was younger I could only afford one at time. Video games are an expensive hobby.
I agree on that, I had to make do with a secondhand gamecube from my mother's friend, but not only has the internet sort of countered this mindset by making information about stuff spread like wild fire, but there's a lot of cases where the people have enough money but refuse to give anything beyond a Nintendo game a try. In the former, that's obviously unfortunate, not much to do about it while the latter has people buying every Nintendo release, all the DLC, all the amiibo but suddenly kick and scream at stuff like "Cloud's in Smash? How dare they! He's the sign of the BETRAYAL of Glorious Perfect Nintendo!" which was a surprisingly common opinion, albeit not the majority
 

Cap'n Jack

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Genuine question here, do you own multiple gaming systems or care solely about Nintendo? Also, people would give me **** for not knowing Banjo or Geno prior to Smash speculation and people pretended to not have heard of SNK or Dragon Quest AT ALL so what is the point of this
I own a PS4 and a Switch. And I also agree with you on Geno. Never heard of him prior to Brawl speculation. Did you ever own a N64?

Why is this place such an echo chamber?

Its really not that hard to branch outside systems not named Nintendo, you know. And I had no idea who Geno, Shantae, and Isaac were prior to Smash speculation as someone who has been in the general gaming community for awhile now. (Kind of shows just how much of echo chamber picks they really are, lol)
I own a PS4 and my wife is big into Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts. I am a huge Bethesda fan too.
 

Cap'n Jack

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Hello, please don’t double post. Use the edit button instead. :)
I reported it

I also did not mean to double post. I was genuinely surprised this thread did not have a post in the six minutes between posts. My apologies
 
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Garteam

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I don't think the issue is that 2B isn't recognizable. Most people who have at least a moderate interest in gaming could probably recognize 2B as the girl from Nier, even if they've never played the game themselves.

Where I believe the issue comes in is the lack of legacy that Drakengard has. Nier: Automata is likely the only game in the series the average person has really heard of, the rest of the franchise is comparatively niche. We have had smaller third parties join the roster in the past (Banjo and Kazooie and Bayonetta), but those had the advantage of being connected to Nintendo directly through being published by the Beeg N in the past. Those who do not have that direct connection to Nintendo have a much greater legacy and reputation beyond Drakengard.

That's also where comparing 2B with Joker and the Luminary starts to fall apart. Yes, all three are from recently released RPGs that overperformed beyond what many thought they were capable of, but Joker and Luminary have the advantage of being tied to the juggernauts that are Shin Megami Tensei/Persona and Dragon Quest respectively. 2B is, by comparison, an equally sized fish in a much smaller pond.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I own a PS4 and a Switch. And I also agree with you on Geno. Never heard of him prior to Brawl speculation. Did you ever own a N64?
Quite bizarre as NieR Automata's like Persona 5 as I cannot possibly escape seeing it everywhere despite not owning a system for them until recently, and believe me, I wish I saw less of P5.
I was born in 97, so that was a bit too late. The most memories I had of the thing was seeing a friend play what I think was Pokemon Snap, all I remember in a guy in vehicles. Which is another factor to sheltered fans, did all these people just not hang out with friends and play games at their place? Cause I got into Sonic games by playing on a friend's Xbox, learned about GTA and surprisingly enough ThebGodfather while being scolded by my mother for how naughty it was to do that.
 

Iko MattOrr

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When I play a game I like, I usually do my best to play all the games in the series (sequels and prequels, and often spin-offs too) because I become a fan of the franchise.

I prefer to stick with a limited amount of franchise I like rather than playing a wide range of random stuff.

I started being a gamer during a time when I liked almost all the stuff Nintendo released, with some exceptions, so I became fond of all the iconic Nintendo franchises. This happend starting from the SNES/GB generation to the Gamecube/GBA generation. With the DS and Wii, Nintendo started to shift the focus to casual gamers, and developed a huge amount of games I didn't like... even their core franchises got influenced by this shift in target audience.

I also play on PC, and very rarely on other consoles too (I don't own them, but some of my friends do, and it happens that I may play something at their home).
This is why I'm not much interested in most third parties, I know some of them are good and all, I just don't want to follow too many franchises because it's expansive both in money and time* (*I played the Dark Souls trilogy and I decided to not play any other Souls game after that because I usually spend more than 200 hours each and I don't want to, despite I like them).

Though, I'm starting to lose interest in some Nintendo franchises to... some of their recent games just don't interest me anymore as they used to in the past... I was a huge Zelda fanboy, but I think the Zelda games became less and less interesting from Twilight Princess onward, and I'm getting bored of the franchise (I didn't like BotW either). So, there are only a few franchises I'm interested to, and some of them are dead (such as Warioland and F-Zero).

This seems sad and all, but trust me, Videogames aren't all, I've better stuff to do, so if I don't get the games I like, I just don't play or play different stuff, or either I can do retrogaming, nobody is stopping me from playing the old games I acually like once again. I'm not forced to play a game I have 0 interest in, only because its main character has been added in Smash.
The point is, all this focus on third parties and games I have zero interest in, is making me losing interest in Smash as a whole. Add the fact that I don't like many aspects of the post-brawl (including Brawl) Smash games, the focus on grinding collectables (stickers, mii costumes, spirits) and the countless missed opportunities each game has, along with the gameplay that didn't change much and still has the overall mechanics of Melee (casually speaking), and the fact that the movesets stopped being creative time ago.

My bound with the Smash franchise is very weak, I used to be a big fan of the series, but it seems the series is not for me anymore.
The same reason for why I never got into Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, because I simply don't care of its content. Smash is becoming the same thing for me.
I had the chance to play some Brawlout time ago... it's a Smash clone, with a slighty simpler gameplay (less moves) but still decent, and has a couple of crossover characters (Yooka Layle, the Guacamelee guy, and another from Dead Cells). I played Guacamelee and I didn't like it much, I never played the other games. Brawlout feels exactly like Smash Ultimate to me: it's a platformer fighter filled with characters and content I have 0 interest in. The gameplay is decent enough and can be fun, and some movesets are even a bit interesting, such as how you can create ice platforms in the air and play a drum to summon thunders, and stuff. It's allright but not something I would spend my money into. I feel the same about Ultimate so far. Maybe if there was some big innovation in gameplay...
If I got one of my favorites as DLC maybe I would decide to get the game, but even in that case, it would be just for the character, it wouldn't change my opinion on the game and the series overall... but at least Nintendo would sell an additional copy I guess, for what's worth.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Smash (else I wouldn't be here), I still would like to get a new Smash game... it's just that Ultimate is not the game for me... maybe I'll be more lucky the next time, especially if there's a reboot, and even more especially if Sakurai is not the director anymore and some new guy takes over the series.
 
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Herocin

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Thats a bit of a stretch, don’t you think.



It doesn’t matter, Sakurai could’ve easily negotiated for a playable Geno right then and there, but he opted for a Spirit instead. And we know now it had nothing to do with Square, so the decision and negotiations were 100% made by Sakurai and Nintendo.

I don’t know why people seem to forget this very important fact. Not to mention he is a legendary Spirit as well.
No we don’t know it had nothing to do with Square unless you are going to tell me you are Sakurai and you went to try and get Geno, hmm? Square could have been reluctant to add Geno if he was attempted to be negotiated for because every party has little to gain from his inclusion aside from what money the hardcore fans spend. You can’t say just because Square wasn’t stingy when it came to including Cloud and Hero doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be it when it came to Geno as neither the two can even be compared
 

Garteam

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Quite bizarre as NieR Automata's like Persona 5 as I cannot possibly escape seeing it everywhere despite not owning a system for them until recently, and believe me, I wish I saw less of P5.
I was born in 97, so that was a bit too late. The most memories I had of the thing was seeing a friend play what I think was Pokemon Snap, all I remember in a guy in vehicles. Which is another factor to sheltered fans, did all these people just not hang out with friends and play games at their place? Cause I got into Sonic games by playing on a friend's Xbox, learned about GTA and surprisingly enough ThebGodfather while being scolded by my mother for how naughty it was to do that.
Keep in mind, the PS4 has sold 106 million units. That means, assuming literally every copy of Nier Automata was sold on PS4, it has an attachment rate of about 5%. That's not bad, but its certainly not a lot. I could see how someone who owns a PS4 and only gets a game for it occasionally simply hasn't heard of it.
 

Flyboy

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I wonder if there's some kind of paradox in that information being more easily accessible also makes it easier to ignore? Just spitballing here and this may be anecdotal but it felt like back in the day when the internet was a fledgling beast and all we could do was buy gaming magazines and go to friends' houses to get our gaming knowledge people were hungrier to find out about a larger variety of gaming, no doubt aided by the console wars still being a thing. Even if it was just to make fun of it, a Nintendo fan knew about Sega's exclusives.

Then again, video games as a whole are still exciting to me. I know when I watch an E3 conference that isn't the Nintendo direct I'm going to find a few games I'll actually want to get, but not the majority. Honestly, I only found out about Nier Automata because of the original trailer where they censored the subtitle, and I only found out about Nier as a whole because of my friend who said it was one of the best PS3 games he ever played. But since then, 2B has been everywhere. You just have to go to any anime or gaming con and you'll run into multiple 2Bs at any time.

Overall I think it's stupid to argue over what constitutes "iconic" or to judge Smash on whether a rando will recognize X character or Y character. As shown by Chuggaaconroy's video where his mother tries to guess the names of the characters in the Smash Ultimate roster, that would lead to a very, very pared down roster. It's a video game for people who like to play video games. That's fine.

Still, phrases like "I hadn't even heard of Dragon Quest before Smash!" are concerning, like................okay man
 

Hadokeyblade

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Yeah... I mean, nothing wrong to be a player who only cares for one platform or a concrete genre, each one of us have differente tastes and interests. Also, some people may can't afford to have more than 1 console or maybe they don't want to own more than one platform for some reason.

At the same time each gamer (I don't like at all the word but I would use it to simplify things), due to their tastes, will be in different circles and communities, and in some of these bubbles certain games or genres would barely exist. A hardcore player of fighting games doesn't have to be aware of every JRPG franchise if they only play fighting games, and the same can be said the other way around.
But if you're someone who usually is aware of the general news in the videogame industry in general, I find SUPER hard to not have heard of Nier Automata a single time... same can be said for SNK/King of Fighters or Dragon Quest.

Seriously, I can totally understand each person is different and has different priorities. But when I read things like "I didn't heard of Dragon Quest until Smash", I honestly can't believe it, even if the franchise isn't super popular in the west as it is in Japan, new DQ games are regularly released and if you're mostly a Nintendo player, I can't think of any scenario where a Nintendo hardcore fan haven't heard of DQ when it's usually featured in Directs and promoted by Nintendo itself.

Something similar applies to Nier Automata. Certainly the game isn't on Switch, so people who only plays on Nintendo consoles and their way to learn about gaming news is through Nintendo related websites, then I can see them being unaware of 2B and her game.
But outside of that scenario, I have a hard time thinking of anyone who claims to be aware of the general news in the videogame industry in the last years and not have heard of Nier Automata in any capacity.

Even if some people can't afford or simply aren't interest in other platforms or other genres, being informed in the present is very easy. Smash speculation should help to that due to it's nature of crossover and I would imagine that most of the community would be more open to other games, but sometimes it seems that Smash bubble produces the opposite effect.
This could all be easily explained:

Some people either only play 1 game and Smash or just don't pay attention

I knew a guy in college who played Smash but had no idea who any of the newcomers for Ultimate even were except for Incineroar because he only played Pokemon. Some people are just like that.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
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I'm a Nintendo purist. I'll admit it. The only time I was legitimately excited for a 3rd party character was when Banjo came a few months back. Sure, I've grown to appreciate the other 3rd parties, but I can't say I wished for them. Yet reading this thread alone made me aware of 2B. I think she'd be cool honestly.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
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When I play a game I like, I usually do my best to play all the games in the series (sequels and prequels, and often spin-offs too) because I become a fan of the franchise.

I prefer to stick with a limited amount of franchise I like rather than playing a wide range of random stuff.

I started being a gamer during a time when I liked almost all the stuff Nintendo released, with some exceptions, so I became fond of all the iconic Nintendo franchises. This happend starting from the SNES/GB generation to the Gamecube/GBA generation. With the DS and Wii, Nintendo started to shift the focus to casual gamers, and developed a huge amount of games I didn't like... even their core franchises got influenced by this shift in target audience.

I also play on PC, and very rarely on other consoles too (I don't own them, but some of my friends do, and it happens that I may play something at their home).
This is why I'm not much interested in most third parties, I know some of them are good and all, I just don't want to follow too many franchises because it's expansive both in money and time* (*I played the Dark Souls trilogy and I decided to not play any other Souls game after that because I usually spend more than 200 hours each and I don't want to, despite I like them).

Though, I'm starting to lose interest in some Nintendo franchises to... some of their recent games just don't interest me anymore as they used to in the past... I was a huge Zelda fanboy, but I think the Zelda games became less and less interesting from Twilight Princess onward, and I'm getting bored of the franchise (I didn't like BotW either). So, there are only a few franchises I'm interested to, and some of them are dead (such as Warioland and F-Zero).

This seems sad and all, but trust me, Videogames aren't all, I've better stuff to do, so if I don't get the games I like, I just don't play or play different stuff, either I do retrogaming, nobody is stopping me from playing the old games I acually like once again. I'm not forced to play a game I have 0 interest in, only because it's main character has been added in Smash.
The point is, all this focus on third parties and games I have zero interest in, is making me losing interest in Smash as a whole. Add the fact that I don't like many aspects of the post-brawl (including Brawl) Smash games, the focus on grinding collectables (stickers, mii costumes, spirits) and the countless missed opportunities each game has, along with the gameplay that didn't change much and still has the overall mechanics of Melee (casually speaking), and the fact that the movesets stopped being creative time ago.

My bound with the Smash franchise is very weak, I used to be a big fan of the series, but it seems the series is not for me anymore.
The same reason for why I never got into Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, because I simply don't care of its content. Smash is becoming the same thing for me.
I had the chance to play some Brawlout time ago... it's a Smash clone, with a slighty simpler gameplay (less moves) but still decent, and has a couple of crossover characters (Yooka Layle, the Guacamelee guy, and another from Dead Cells). I played Guacamelee and I didn't like it much, I never played the other games. Brawlout feels exactly like Smash Ultimate to me: it's a platformer fighter filled with characters and content I have 0 interest in. The gameplay is decent enough and can be fun, and some movesets are even a bit interesting, such as how you can create ice platforms in the air and play a drum to summon thunders, and stuff. It's allright but not something I would spend my money into. I feel the same about Ultimate so far. Maybe if there was some big innovation in gameplay...
If I got one of my favorites as DLC maybe I would decide to get the game, but even in that case, it would be just for the character, it wouldn't change my opinion on the game and the series overall... but at least Nintendo would sell an additional copy I guess, for what's worth.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Smash (else I wouldn't be here), I still would like to get a new Smash game... it's just that Ultimate is not the game for me... maybe I'll be more lucky the next time, especially if there's a reboot, and even more especially if Sakurai is not the director anymore and some new guy takes over the series.
What issues do you have because the issues with PSABR were a MAJOR gameplay decision by supers being the only thing that could kill and the roster being very lacking due to the lack of major Playstation stuff like Crash, Spyro, Cloud and Lara Croft. Sadly though they had Dart planned before he got scrapped
Keep in mind, the PS4 has sold 106 million units. That means, assuming literally every copy of Nier Automata was sold on PS4, it has an attachment rate of about 5%. That's not bad, but its certainly not a lot. I could see how someone who owns a PS4 and only gets a game for it occasionally simply hasn't heard of it.
Again, 5 million is ridiculous, the PS4 was the clearcut winner of the generation too. This is like me saying nobody likes Banjo because of the noticable drop off from Kazooie to Tooie sales
 

HyruleHero

Smash Journeyman
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I still have 2B as a frontrunner along with Dante. If we get anyone else from SE it will most likely be her imo.
I feel like 2B being the square female they choose would suck. Square owns Lara Croft the single most recognizable female game character. Although a moveset may be a little hard to make she definitely should be in the game before 2B if Nintendo get another character from Square.
 
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