Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[N3ON]

I just wanted to add that Shantae is actually well known to retro gamers. I knew who she was because her OG game is considered a lesser known classic, because it was a late GBC release I think.

>well known to retro gamers
>lesser known classic

 

[CroonerMike]

I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that you are somehow simultaneously a person who evidently "plays many games from various companies" and has somehow never heard of Nier Automata despite its success until someone talked about them here on smashboards.

Out of the many many JRPGs SE has released, not many have reached the outside appeal N:A has.

I find it odd you believe that everyone is going to have the same tastes as you therefor will automatically go towards the games you like. Sorry, that’s not how life works.

For example, I may enjoy medical shows, but that doesn’t mean I’ve heard of shows like House M.D or etc. I find it very interesting that people are getting so upset over not knowing a video game. Does it really matter that much?

 

[DevaAshera]

I find it odd you believe that everyone is going to have the same tastes as you therefor will automatically go towards the games you like. Sorry, that’s not how life works.

For example, I may enjoy medical shows, but that doesn’t mean I’ve heard of shows like House M.D or etc. I find it very interesting that people are getting so upset over not knowing a video game. Does it really matter that much?

That's not what he's saying..he's saying that he finds it odd that someone that plays many different games from many different companies somehow hasn't heard about one of gaming's biggest company's biggest recent successes..like it was one of only two of Square-Enix's massive successes at the time, the other being Final Fantasy XV..
You don't have to have played it have heard about it..like I heard all about the new God of War and Death's Stranding despite not having much interest in either of them..it'd be nigh impossible to have not heard of either of them.

I agree with him though, it is really hard to imagine..but still, you're an outlier, not the norm.

 

[Geckocalypse]

>well known to retro gamers
>lesser known classic

Not well known to mainstream gamers, but then it got to a point where it was on pretty much every "Underrated" list for the console, so anyone who looked at any of those pretty much knew what it was. Like Guardian Legend on NES, where it might have been "Unknown" but it got on so many of those lists that most people who play NES games are at least aware of it.

 

[cosmicB]

I find it odd you believe that everyone is going to have the same tastes as you therefor will automatically go towards the games you like. Sorry, that’s not how life works.

For example, I may enjoy medical shows, but that doesn’t mean I’ve heard of shows like House M.D or etc. I find it very interesting that people are getting so upset over not knowing a video game. Does it really matter that much?

I mean you said you play games from many different companies, not that you had limited tastes. If you're not interested in JRPG/ARPGs, then yeah, it's not really surprising that you'd never hear of Nier Automata. But if you are and you aren't stretching yourself too thin, yeah it's kind of odd to have not at least heard the name before. It was extremely talked about in 2017.

 

[N3ON]

I find it odd you believe that everyone is going to have the same tastes as you therefor will automatically go towards the games you like. Sorry, that’s not how life works.

For example, I may enjoy medical shows, but that doesn’t mean I’ve heard of shows like House M.D or etc. I find it very interesting that people are getting so upset over not knowing a video game. Does it really matter that much?

No, but because your situation is atypical from a logical perspective, it certainly can't account for any sort of precedent.

Also I know you're trying to push a "people mad because I don't know x game" narrative here, but simply being disagreed with doesn't mean anyone is upset.

Not well known to mainstream gamers, but then it got to a point where it was on pretty much every "Underrated" list for the console, so anyone who looked at any of those pretty much knew what it was. Like Guardian Legend on NES, where it might have been "Unknown" but it got on so many of those lists that most people who play NES games are at least aware of it.

But showing up on a bunch of underrated GBC game lists doesn't refute the point that produced your reply, remarking on the lack of the series' stature. In fact, it sort of proves it.

 

[Geckocalypse]

But showing up on a bunch of underrated GBC game lists doesn't refute the point that produced your reply, remarking on the lack of the series' stature. In fact, it sort of proves it.

No it doesn't. It might not have been well known back then but more people became aware of it through those lists and the internet, and you probably don't look at them, but the majority of them copy each other and parrot the same ten or so games. It had the effect of it appearing so frequently that it got to the point where it wasn't the case any more if you looked into that console at all. Everyone, at least, in the discord servers and the like I hanged around in, knew who Shantae was.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I only know of Shantae because of Smash discussions. If I didn’t care about Smash or she didn’t somehow become a popular pick, I imagine I still never would’ve discovered her.

Shantae’s fanbase really oversell how significant/large that series is.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Except it's not an objective right or wrong, nor are people arguing. People are expressing an opinion and preference, and that is evidently bugging you because it differs from yours.

The preference doesn't annoy me, it's the faulty logic behind it that does. People are allowed to want whoever they want, but I'm just pointing out that "it's a once in a lifetime chance" is not a good justification. I attempted to explain why. Do you have a counterpoint to that?

Well I won’t sugar coat it, but personally I do think that Geno’s history with Nintendo is negligible.

Considering how Geno's entire history is Nintendo I think you might be mistaken.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yes, but you're wrong.

Well, it's impossible to prove that, so I'm not.

I only know of Shantae because of Smash discussions. If I didn’t care about Smash or she didn’t somehow become a popular pick, I imagine I still never would’ve discovered her.

Shantae’s fanbase really oversell how significant/large that series is.

I agree but...so do Nier fans.

I thought half the point of the games by now has been to celebrate games with some sort of legacy, and popular one offs appearing as spirits or costumes. Isn't Automata a Spinoff of a spinoff?

Eh, I'd call it a sequel of a spinoff.

He's too dope. Too clean. How can you not like him?

Because Zero exists.

 

[Geckocalypse]

Ok, Fine

That took less than ten seconds worth of research and it comes up.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Frankly it's silly to argue over relevancy with most wanteds when one of the most talked about potential newcomers to the series, who's been talked about since brawl, Geno, has zero relevancy to everything. The character ONLY exists nowadays because people want him in Smash. If that's enough to make him a strong likelihood than no character is too irrelevant to be in Smash.

 

[N3ON]

No it doesn't. It might not have been well known back then but more people became aware of it through those lists and the internet, and you probably don't look at them, but the majority of them copy each other and parrot the same ten or so games. It had the effect of it appearing so frequently that it got to the point where it wasn't the case any more if you looked into that console at all. Everyone, at least, in the discord servers and the like I hanged around in, knew who Shantae was.

And to which strata of reception is that more impressive than? Overlooked games that didn't eventually get appreciated in retrospect?

For arguing the size of a series, that's a pretty low bar to overcome. It's miles away from a game that proliferates to the degree of a current, successful non-indie. I mean, as per your example, it might be appreciated as a good game, but it's not like anyone is going to be calling Guardian Legend a big deal.

 

[Geckocalypse]

And to which strata of reception is that more impressive than? Overlooked games that didn't eventually get appreciated in retrospect?

For arguing the size of a series, that's a pretty low bar to overcome. It's miles away from a game that proliferates to the degree of a current, successful non-indie. I mean, as per your example, it might be appreciated as a good game, but it's not like anyone is going to be calling Guardian Legend a big deal.

I thought the entire point was talking about how well known the characters are now.

And either way she's already in the game as a spirit, and I'm pretty sure they said that they wouldn't add a character if it was already a spirit so I don't know why people keep hoping for it.

 

[P.Kat]

My hope is that one day kh3 will receive an update to the frozen world to be the version the developers meant it to be.

I'd love that, but if the KH3 ReMind DLC is anything to go by, it feels like Nomura is slowly yet surely trying to break away from using the Disney worlds.

 

[Idon]

Well, I'm not, because it's impossible to prove.

It's impossible to prove because you're going out of your way to plug your ears to numerous examples of the game being popular, far more than Shantae.

Since you won't accept any metric from which the size of a game's popularity can be judged, all you're succeeding in doing is making yourself out to be willfully ignorant. By your logic, or lack thereof, it'd be easy to say that Octodad has as much popularity as Kratos or Battletoads has far more popularity than Master Chief, because nothing will be enough to "prove" it to you.

It's honestly only one step below Lisa Simpson's Tiger-Repellent rock.

Frankly it's silly to argue over relevancy with most wanteds when one of the most talked about potential newcomers to the series, who's been talked about since brawl, Geno, has zero relevancy to everything. The character ONLY exists nowadays because people want him in Smash. If that's enough to make him a strong likelihood than no character is too irrelevant to be in Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That took less than ten seconds worth of research and it comes up.

And look who's the only one on that list NOT playable in Smash! Mmmmmmmmm!

Since you won't accept any metric from which the size of a game's popularity can be judged, all you're succeeding in doing is making yourself out to be willfully ignorant.

Because few of those metrics actually measure overall mindshare of a character.

Metrics given included things like "2B has figurines and Shantae doesn't."

2B has figurines because she's a ***** monster. Not because she's a more iconic video game character.

 

[Deleted member]

And either way she's already in the game as a spirit, and I'm pretty sure they said that they wouldn't add a character if it was already a spirit so I don't know why people keep hoping for it.

Me either. Just being recognized by the developers in the game is fine enough...at least it's better than nothing.

 

[Geckocalypse]

And look who's the only one on that list NOT playable in Smash! Mmmmmmmmm!

And whats your ****ing point? I am just trying to show that it's well known enough by now to be easily found if you put literally any effort in. I don't know why that's such a difficult thing for you to understand.

I do not think Shantae will be added because she's already in the game as a Spirit. Same with Geno.

 

[cosmicB]

Ah yes, the hit NES game that everyone knows, Guardian Legend.

I'm not sure that's the best example to use when talking about the power of underrated game lists in magazines and on the internet.

 

[Deleted member]

And whats your ****ing point? I am just trying to show that it's well known enough by now to be easily found if you put literally any effort in. I don't know why that's such a difficult thing for you to understand.

I do not think Shantae will be added because she's already in the game as a Spirit. Same with Geno.

As much as I would agree with you, yes. We are still under the assumption that Spirits deconfirm characters, and that is the stigma until a Spirit becomes playable.

It's probably coz people are too passionate.

 

[N3ON]

Well, I'm not, because it's impossible to prove.

This is the actual Flying Spaghetti Monster logic.

I thought the entire point was talking about how well known the characters are now.

Correct... and my point was that what she's accomplished doesn't make her a big deal.

I mean...

If only it were so.

 

[Krankees]

I'm gonna miss DBZA.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Idon

For the record I don't think Geno is likely I was talking about the general opinion most have about him every time a new game is announced. If Geno was going to get in he would already be in and I highly doubt there's some square embargo on him as frankly the character is so old and insignificant I bet most of square doesn't even recognize that they own him. As for Shantae even though I want her I don't see spirits getting upgraded.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ok, Fine

That took less than ten seconds worth of research and it comes up.

If you Google RPGs one of the suggestions it comes up with is Fortnite.

Just sayin', not exactly the best evidence.

 

[cosmicB]

Isn't Google search also tailored to your history?

 

[ErenJager]

Remember that data mine that suggest x amount of possible DLC characters could be added.
After the second fighters pass there would still be four slots left.
Do you think the 4 remaining slots will be another pass, left unused, or...
What if they're echo slots for the second pass...

Hear my tinfoil hat theory out.
The first fighters pass had 5 characters over the span of a year give or take..
The seconds fighters pass will average 3 a year...
What if two of those fighters also get an echo, meaning 5 a year still.
They just didn't want to charge money for echos so it's like a bonus.

 

[I.D.]

And 2B is recognized by the average gamer as "that eyepatch girl with the ass".

Ain't that the truth. Give me 9S aka Hackerman instead.

 

[osby]

Remember that data mine that suggest x amount of possible DLC characters could be added.
After the second fighters pass there would still be four slots left.
Do you think the 4 remaining slots will be another pass, left unused, or...
What if they're echo slots for the second pass...

Hear my tinfoil hat theory out.
The first fighters pass had 5 characters over the span of a year give or take..
The seconds fighters pass will average 3 a year...
What if two of those fighters also get an echo, meaning 5 a year still.
They just didn't want to charge money for echos so it's like a bonus.

I doubt we'll get four fighters for free when we have to pay for individual Mii costumes.

I think there's a good chance that they'll just go unused.

 

[ErenJager]

I doubt we'll get four fighters for free when we have to pay for individual Mii costumes.

I think there's a good chance that they'll just go unused.

It's a pipe dream, but it'd be so awesome.
Imagine, here's your first year of Fighter Pass II (or something more tailored to whatever your interests are)

Crash Bandicoot
Coco Bandicoot ε

Ryu Hayabusa

Agumon
Gabumon ε

 

[DevaAshera]

2B has figurines because she's a ***** monster. Not because she's a more iconic video game character.

Doesn't really matter if she's 'iconic' or not..beyond that term being widely based on one's own definition of the term and thus highly subjective, many characters have gotten into Smash that weren't 'iconic' such as Bayonetta, DQ11 Hero, or Joker (if 2B isn't iconic neither is Joker).
However, I do feel like, given time, she will be a fairly iconic character or at least nostalgic one for many considering the popularity of her game.
For a comparison though, 2B is likely more 'iconic' than Shantae is.
Going by the definition of 'iconic' though, they would both fall under it.
- relating to or of the nature of an icon
- (of a classical Greek statue) depicting a victorious athlete in a conventional style.

Ain't that the truth. Give me 9S aka Hackerman instead.

Oh please no..I've had enough of his whiny butt from the Ending route of NieR Automata..

 

[Idon]

Isn't Google search also tailored to your history?

Well yes, but for both of these, I double checked on incognito and on my phone, so I would presume this is the "default" ish.

Regardless relying on google is going to be a bit unclear. I've found a lot of niche stuff by googling stuff and finding out what is recommended.

 

[Seanapotamus]

Saw a discussion about the popularity between 2B and Shantae as well as their respective games. Think I'll throw in a little comparison here:

Shantae has been in the speculation discussion because her games are considered to be cult classics, and fanbase of that series are quite be vocal about it. While it is not necessarily niche, it's not a big hit either (the first game in general sold poorly and the second game was released on DSiWare), especially compared to other indies with content present in Smash Ultimate. Shantae herself isn't the most well-known indie character out there, but she has a vocal fanbase who want her in Smash (and so do her creators), even after she is in the game as a spirit (note that we still don't know whether or not spirits deconfirm).

NieR Automata, on the other hand, is the direct sequel to a game that is a spinoff of a lesser known series (Drakengard). However, it ended up being a big sleeper hit, selling over 4 million copies. 2B has become a popular character, and has even appeared in a few crossovers. She isn't speculated within the Smash community as much as other Square Enix characters like Geno, but there are people who would want to see her be playable in Smash. While NieR Automata is a sequel to a spinoff to the Drakengard series, it should be noted that Joker comes from a spinoff series of another franchise.

To the mainstream audience, 2B is clearly the more well-known character, despite being from a game that was released around 15 years later than Shantae's debut. But within the Smash community and the speculation scene, you'll see Shantae's name pop up more because she's one of the more highly requested characters. Both characters do have supporters within the community and have their respective support threads.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Doesn't really matter if she's 'iconic' or not..

Well that was the start of this particular argument. Not whether 2B or Shantae was more likely to get into Smash, but that someone was flipping out that people were even suggesting that Shantae could be considered more iconic than 2B.

 

[ErenJager]

Neither Shantae or 2B are iconic.
Pikachu is iconic, Mario is iconic, Pac-Man is iconic.

 

[Geckocalypse]

Well Her's my official two cent on what characters I want, or my thoughts on ones people want. A lot of these are going to be contradictory, but we realistically have zero information to work with, besides supposed leakers who are always *partially* correct.

1. Arle. I actually do think she has a good chance of being added, the only puzzle game character we have that I know of is Dr. Mario, unless you count characters that have a puzzle game named after them like Yoshi. She would fit in with the rest of them, is from a hugely successful franchise, and already has magic powers and fighting capability. I mostly want her in just because I think she's cute.

2. Travis. I don't consider him to be an iconic character, but neither do I consider Bayonetta. I also think he would be out of place, but so is Snake and Bayonetta. He could still be released to promote NMH3 though, and for all we know we can get another fighter pass after this, so using a slot for a promo could be no big deal.

3. The doom guy. I would love him to be in, but he would be out of place as well. He was also pretty much deconfirmed recently by someone at ID who said they actually talked with Nintendo and it didn't go anywhere. So he's been deconfirmed unless he's trolling everyone, I assume if he would be in the game any time soon it would be alongside Eternal which comes out next month, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

4. Master Chief. I can kinda see this.My first thought was that he wouldn't be added if the Doom Guy wasn't, simply because doom was a much more influential game, but Master Chief is probably much more popular to kids, and lets be honest, it's much more realistic having him in than a guy who runs around ripping people apart like they are paper.

5.Crash Bandicoot. Family Friendly character, cartoony, well known with a legacy, as well as most of the games being pretty good, I don't see why he can't be unless sony is being difficult

6. Sephiroth. I thought we were complaining about swordsmen, why do we want another one? Then again, I guess Travis is a sword user too. I personally don't want him in, but I'm going to buy the fighter pass anyway. I wouldn't really care either way.

7. Scorpion. I highly doubt it, but that would be cool.
Characters that I'm pulling out of my ass that I want that I think would fit in, but I don't think actually would come over

1. Ryu from Ninja Gaiden
2. Arthur from Ghosts N' Goblins
3. Earthworm Jim
4. Spyro

 

[DevaAshera]

Neither Shantae or 2B are iconic.
Pikachu is iconic, Mario is iconic, Pac-Man is iconic.

Like I said, 'Iconic' is speculative and means different things to different people.
For example, some would say Terry Bogard is Iconic, some wouldn't.

 

[ErenJager]

Like I said, 'Iconic' is speculative and means different things to different people.
For example, some would say Terry Bogard is Iconic, some wouldn't.

Iconic is well known and well established.

 

[DevaAshera]

Iconic is well known and well established.

By what definition and in who's eyes?
Some would say 2B is 'well known' and 'well established' considering NieR Automata was very popular and we're still talking about her and her game to this day despite it being 3 years later.
Like I said, its purely subjective based on one's personal views on it.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

5.Crash Bandicoot. Family Friendly character, cartoony, well known with a legacy, as well as most of the games being pretty good, I don't see why he can't be unless sony is being difficult

Sony has no say over whether or not Crash gets in. If Sakurai and Nintendo want Crash, Activision is the one they'll have to talk with.