Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Thoughts on Byleth?

  • YAY

    Votes: 189 30.4%
  • NAY

    Votes: 90 14.5%
  • MEH

    Votes: 98 15.8%
  • 6 MORE CHARACTERS!!

    Votes: 244 39.3%

  • Total voters
    621

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
15,240
Location
Amala Network
NNID
Hito-shura
Switch FC
King of Chaos
Granted, but Shantae has an entire franchise that's been around for 20 years. 2B has been around for 3 years.

Like, every Mega Man game has probably sold less than Red Dead Redemption 2, but that doesn't make Arthur Morgan more iconic than Megaman.
Megaman's established himself over the course of those years with continued developer push. You can see it in his crossovers, fanart, song covers, and whatever over the course of 30 years while RDR2 was content to release and be done.

Whatever you want to use to measure popularity in the widespread audience, Nier Automata's popularity has managed to eclipse every single category. Point for point, I can't think of a single thing where Shantae is more popular.
 
Last edited:

DarthEnderX

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
2,880
I don't think those are the type of people to give two sh**s about DLC choices either way then, and thus, what characters they recognize and don't recognize don't exactly matter in this context anyways, because like N3ON said, the only characters in gaming they would recognize period would be Mario, Pikachu, and Pac-Man, and they probably don't care at all about Smash or anything to do with gaming crossovers to begin with.
Exactly. There's point where you're too casual to ever even own Smash. And at that level it doesn't matter to anyone here(or at Nintendo), what's recognizable to you.

While I adore Shantae, she just doesn't compare to 2B in regards to how well known she is
I don't take that as a given.
 
Last edited:

Geckocalypse

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
23
I don't think those are the type of people to give two sh**s about DLC choices either way then, and thus, what characters they recognize and don't recognize don't exactly matter in this context anyways, because like N3ON said, the only characters in gaming they would recognize period would be Mario, Pikachu, and Pac-Man, and they probably don't care at all about Smash or anything to do with gaming crossovers to begin with.
The point is that I think Nintendo would want to pick characters that have the chance that most people would recognize and not just angry people on the internet. I don't think they actually care about what *anyone* wants because they know people will buy it anyway to have access to everyone.
 

N3ON

The Less I Know the Better
GRimer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,018
Location
Vancouver
They also own a Ps4 and never played that either. My dad is one of those people you see mentioned and would think Link is Zelda (He actually saw me playing the Wonderful 101 and thought it was zelda, thought No More Heroes was Power Rangers, and Dodonpachi was asteroids)

So when I think of "mainstream" I try to think of something that even they would recognize, and when I think of "Casual gamers" I think of people that play mostly cell phone games.

I also didn't mean to quote that first one, but I don't think Nintendo honestly cares much. I mean people were complaining about Fire Emblem characters and they still added another one.
It doesn't matter who they recognize at this point though, consumers who play with that level of separation from the product aren't the demographic the DLC targets.

Clearly the audience being sold to is that who would recognize at least some of the DLC. Which means the "mainstream" in question are people with general understanding of the gaming landscape, not just... the mainstream of society, of which there are people who occasionally play video games, but don't know much about them.
 

SirCamp

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
546
Why would they need to test the waters? It's not like a franchise getting a second character is something people are against.
I'm by no means in the majority here, but uh... yeah, it's me. I don't want it. lol

I'm generally not interested in 3rd party series getting multiple reps. I wouldn't hate a second Sonic rep or anything, and in fact I'd still probably buy it, but it's not something I'd prefer. I'd rather they focus on breadth if they are going to continue with 3rd party characters. And even more importantly I'd rather they focus on 1st parties. But again that's just me.
 

ErenJager

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
2,792
Location
Namek
Goku won the fighters ballot.
Goku has had nearly yearly releases since 1986 until present day.
Bandai Namco owns the licensing rights to Dragon Ball video games.
Bandai Namco made Smash Ultimate and the DLC.
Bandai Namco still only has one playable character.
Goku is iconic.
Goku is the ambassador of the 2020 Japanese Olympics.
Sakurai wants you to seethe.
Can't stand the demands on twitter.
Added Byleth to spite the annoying fandom.
Can only top it by adding Goku.
Goku is in.
 

Geckocalypse

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
23
Goku won the fighters ballot.
Goku has had nearly yearly releases since 1986 until present day.
Bandai Namco owns the licensing rights to Dragon Ball video games.
Bandai Namco made Smash Ultimate and the DLC.
Bandai Namco still only has one playable character.
Goku is iconic.
Goku is the ambassador of the 2020 Japanese Olympics.
Sakurai wants you to seethe.
Can't stand the demands on twitter.
Added Byleth to spite the annoying fandom.
Can only top it by adding Goku.
Goku is in.
Sorry, but they already said somewhere I'm sure that they are only adding characters that are originally from games.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,551
The point is that I think Nintendo would want to pick characters that have the chance that most people would recognize and not just angry people on the internet. I don't think they actually care about what *anyone* wants because they know people will buy it anyway to have access to everyone.
The types of people like your parents that would confuse Link for Zelda won't recognize any character period. They certainly wouldn't have any different reaction to different DLC choices no matter how obscure or popular they are, because almost all choices to begin with would generate the exact same reaction from that demographic, one of indifference and cluelessness.
 

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,544
I don't take that as a given.
It kinda is though..like, Shantae is somewhat known to big gamers, but NieR Automata and 2B is known to pretty much every gamer. Were you to ask them if they knew NieR Automata and/or 2B, they'd likely have at least heard of her..Shantae can't really say the same.
Like I said, NieR Automata was one of the biggest games of 2017..and it had some stiff competition that year alone yet still managed to be a big deal..so its not really a matter of opinion to say that NieR Automata is more well known than Shantae..its a fact.
Like you'll possibly find someone that hasn't heard of it..but you're more likely to find someone that doesn't know Shantae.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
890
Honestly, these days there are very few things one can even call impossible for Smash in the first place, like a Sony or non-VG character, but otherwise, if the idea is just sheer shock value, there's few things that would even register as such.

Heck, Master Chief in Smash is considered a relatively commonplace discussion these days.
We're not that far away from having a serious discussion about Sony in Smash it feels like, and I remember laughing about that when I first signed up here.
 

Geckocalypse

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
23
It kinda is though..like, Shantae is somewhat known to big gamers, but NieR Automata and 2B is known to pretty much every gamer. Were you to ask them if they knew NieR Automata and/or 2B, they'd likely have at least heard of her..Shantae can't really say the same.
Like I said, NieR Automata was one of the biggest games of 2017..and it had some stiff competition that year alone yet still managed to be a big deal..so its not really a matter of opinion to say that NieR Automata is more well known than Shantae..its a fact.
Like you'll possibly find someone that hasn't heard of it..but you're more likely to find someone that doesn't know Shantae.

I thought half the point of the games by now has been to celebrate games with some sort of legacy, and popular one offs appearing as spirits or costumes. Isn't Automata a Spinoff of a spinoff?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
890
The point is that I think Nintendo would want to pick characters that have the chance that most people would recognize and not just angry people on the internet. I don't think they actually care about what *anyone* wants because they know people will buy it anyway to have access to everyone.
They do to some degree for sure. Banjo wasn't DLC because of his massive relevance in 2018. Same goes for KKR, who was missing for a long while before Smash. They will if there's a reason to and won't if there isn't.
 
Last edited:

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
15,240
Location
Amala Network
NNID
Hito-shura
Switch FC
King of Chaos
I thought half the point of the games by now has been to celebrate games with some sort of legacy, and popular one offs appearing as spirits or costumes. Isn't Automata a Spinoff of a spinoff?
Nier Automata is a sequel to a game called Nier, which is a sub-series which has tangential plot relation to the Drakengard series. Ever heard of Persona and SMT? Think of it like that.

And believe me, as much as I'd love Caim or Zero, there is a snowball's chance of hell of them getting over 2Booty.
 
Last edited:

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,544
I thought half the point of the games by now has been to celebrate games with some sort of legacy, and popular one offs appearing as spirits or costumes. Isn't Automata a Spinoff of a spinoff?
Technically speaking, NieR Automata is part of the Drakengard series as NieR is based off of one of Drakengard's endings, the 5th one to be precise, that was originally seen as a 'joke ending'. NieR Automata is a sequel to NieR, not a spin-off. Its not a direct sequel, but it does take place in the same world years upon years apart. So, technically, its the sequel to a spin-off that became its own thing and then eclipsed it. Its similar in a way to the Persona series, which spawned from a Spin-Off called 'Shin Megami Tensei if' that started many of the things that would eventually be included in the Persona series that spun-off from it..the female protagonist from SMTif even appears as a cameo in Persona 1, which is a running trend with Persona games to include some element from a previous game within it somewhere.
Point it that its from its own series, regardless of origins, and isn't just a 'one off', its more comparable to Fire Emblem or Persona where a new cast is implemented each title.

Regardless, that's not the point of the series, its a Celebration of Gaming, not to celebrate games with some sort of 'Legacy' since that means different things to different people.
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
1,830
It kinda is though..like, Shantae is somewhat known to big gamers, but NieR Automata and 2B is known to pretty much every gamer. Were you to ask them if they knew NieR Automata and/or 2B, they'd likely have at least heard of her..Shantae can't really say the same.
Like I said, NieR Automata was one of the biggest games of 2017..and it had some stiff competition that year alone yet still managed to be a big deal..so its not really a matter of opinion to say that NieR Automata is more well known than Shantae..its a fact.
Like you'll possibly find someone that hasn't heard of it..but you're more likely to find someone that doesn't know Shantae.
I’ve heard of Shantae more than 2B,
I didn’t even know what a 2b was until smash
 

osby

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
15,936
Persona also has 5 games so it's kind of a thing in of itself at this point. Automata as far as I can tell is a spinoff that is only loosely connected to the game it's a spinoff/sequel too and isn't really a ip itself yet.
Persona actually has 6 games.

Still, I don't think it's that unlikely for Nintendo to pick a Nier Automata rep. From what I've seen, it created more buzz than previous games and still very popular.

Also, it's not like we don't have one-off protagonists in the shape of pretty much every JRPG character we have.
 

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
15,240
Location
Amala Network
NNID
Hito-shura
Switch FC
King of Chaos
Persona also has 5 games so it's kind of a thing in of itself at this point. Automata as far as I can tell is a spinoff that is only loosely connected to the game it's a spinoff/sequel too and isn't really a ip itself yet.
It's not a spinoff, it's a sequel to Nier.
Direct sequel.

Also Joker didn't get in on the legacy of Persona 1-4. He got in because Sakurai adores Persona 5. Adding content from those games was just pure simple fanservice. If those games didn't exist, I've no doubt in my mind Joker would still be in today.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
890
Came up with an idea for something fun a while ago and just got to posting it now. Figured this would be a good place to post it to gauge interest. The idea is snake draft of video game characters(Ones playable in Smash excluded) to create their own roster of 12 for a Smash spinoff. Everyone picks in order and then we put the rosters up to a vote for the community as to who has the best based on a criteria I'll develop soon. There would be a few additional rules too, but I'm not going to go really far in depth unless people really want to know.

Would anyone be into the idea? I don't really have a number in mind for how many people I'd be looking for. I already have 2, me and I already talked about it with my brother who also posts here although if there's a lot of interest I have no problem sitting out.
 

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,544
But on the 2nd character of a 3rd party series topic, most of you guys know I'd want one of the other Main Mega Men first. MMX would be my main choice, but the others are dope too.

View attachment 262236

He's too dope. How can you not like him?
X is cool, yeah, but if I could pick one of the side-series mains as a playable character, it would have to be..

Zero has always been my favorite Mega Man character and the Mega Man Zero incarnation in particular..he's got so much moveset potential, a cool design, reps his own series, and is vastly different from Mega Man..and he could have his Mega Man X incarnation as an alternate costume.

Persona also has 5 games so it's kind of a thing in of itself at this point. Automata as far as I can tell is a spinoff that is only loosely connected to the game it's a spinoff/sequel too and isn't really a ip itself yet.
You're splitting hairs here.
NieR Automata is a sequel, not a spin-off..and if you wanna get more into it, its based off of both NieR and the stage play 'YoRHa' that Yoko Taro made..so there are three parts in that way.
Its an IP in and of itself, it has two games..I mean, EarthBound counts as an IP and it only has three and won't ever get more from the looks of it.
I’ve heard of Shantae more than 2B,
I didn’t even know what a 2b was until smash
You're one of the outliers I was talking about..and it legit surprises me that you hadn't heard of 2B considering how massive NieR Automata was.
And I know more about Geno than I do Gordon Freeman, but that doesn't really mean much, because outside the bubble it's the other way around.
Pretty much, which is why I said there'd always be outliers..like I didn't know who Sonic the Hedgehog was until after Sonic the Hedgehog 3 released because none of my friends had a Sega Genesis until then and I somehow didn't see or remember him from TV..but I can't really argue he was an unknown property.
 

MooMew64

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
2,405
Location
Takin' you for a ride
I’ve heard of Shantae more than 2B,
I didn’t even know what a 2b was until smash
TBH, most people in this fandom don't seem to know about many characters that aren't exclusively Nintendo or in the Smash speculation bubble.

People said these exact same things about Shantae back during Smash 4. Only thing that's changed now is her name's been repeated enough times now that she's been incorporated into the Smash bubble.
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
18,244
Location
The States
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
For those who want Lara Croft, which version would you want?

The old classic design, or the reboot?

I would vastly prefer the classic design.
Like most characters I would prefer a classic version, or an alt if possible, like Cloud and Bayo, since that'll make many people happy.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
602
But on the 2nd character of a 3rd party series topic, most of you guys know I'd want one of the other Main Mega Men first. MMX would be my main choice, but the others are dope too.

View attachment 262236

He's too dope. Too clean. How can you not like him?
If it weren't for the fact that he was an assist trophy, I would say Zero would be cooler.
 

Geckocalypse

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
23
You're splitting hairs here.
NieR Automata is a sequel, not a spin-off..and if you wanna get more into it, its based off of both NieR and the stage play 'YoRHa' that Yoko Taro made..so there are three parts in that way.
Sure but I didn't know that. I never played it, and I never played Persona either. Thar's why I said "as far as I know" Hell, someone at the launch release came up and told me Joker was added and he was upset because I thought he meant the Batman villain
 

cosmicB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Messages
257
Granted, but Shantae has an entire franchise that's been around for 20 years. 2B has been around for 3 years.

Like, every Mega Man game has probably sold less than Red Dead Redemption 2, but that doesn't make Arthur Morgan more iconic than Megaman.
Mega Man is a multi-media franchise with animated series, comic books, spin-offs, a Hollywood film in the works (allegedly), and a whole lot of references in other works. There are over 50 games across multiple generations which have sold over 35 million cumulatively.

Shantae is a tiny series with 5 games (and and an 8 year gap between the first and second game) with no solid numbers whose most notable multi-media presence is a neat animated intro done by Studio Trigger. An indie darling no doubt, but hardly a mainstream name even among non-mainstream gamers, unlike 2B.
 

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,544
Sure but I didn't know that. I never played it, and I never played Persona either. Thar's why I said "as far as I know" Hell, someone at the launch release came up and told me Joker was added and he was upset because I thought he meant the Batman villain
Well, I mean, that's forgivable..Batman's Joker is more well known than Persona's Joker..and though the character goes by Joker, a lot of people refer to him as P5 Protag, Ren Amamiya, and Akira Kurusu as well.
Heck..depending on the Persona fan, saying 'Joker' to them could mean either the Persona 5 protagonist or one of two villains from the two versions of Persona 2.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
884
My choice for a second Sonic character would be Doctor Eggman.
My choice for a second Mega Man character would be Doctuh Wahwee Doctor Wily.
Kinda conflicted here, since I'd love both characters, but I feel like they would both have the exact same "riding in a mech" schtick as Bowser Jr, which would feel kinda redundant with three characters.

... unless they could give Eggman a moveset where he's just on foot, which I would only accept if his running speed was faster than Sonic's.
 

Geckocalypse

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
23
Mega Man is a multi-media franchise with animated series, comic books, spin-offs, a Hollywood film in the works (allegedly), and a whole lot of references in other works. There are over 50 games across multiple generations which have sold over 35 million cumulatively.

Shantae is a tiny series with 5 games (and and an 8 year gap between the first and second game) with no solid numbers whose most notable multi-media presence is a neat animated intro done by Studio Trigger. An indie darling no doubt, but hardly a mainstream name even among non-mainstream gamers, unlike 2B.
I just wanted to add that Shantae is actually well known to retro gamers. I knew who she was because her OG game is considered a lesser known classic, because it was a late GBC release I think. The newer ones are also helping her get more popularity.
 
Last edited:

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,544
I just wanted to add that Shantae is actually well known to retro gamers. I knew who she was because her OG game is considered a lesser known classic, because it was a late GBC release I think. The newer ones are also helping her get more popularity.
I wouldn't quite say that..many of us here are Retro Gamers..and though I knew of Shantae, I didn't really know a lot about her until the Kickstarter and Pirate's Curse outside of seeing an ad for Shantae in old Nintendo Powers..having her first game released on the dead GameBoy Color and her 2nd game as DSiware definitely didn't help her much.
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
1,830
TBH, most people in this fandom don't seem to know about many characters that aren't exclusively Nintendo or in the Smash speculation bubble.

People said these exact same things about Shantae back during Smash 4. Only thing that's changed now is her name's been repeated enough times now that she's been incorporated into the Smash bubble.
Nah I actually play many various games from various companies. Never heard of the game until recent. Looks cool.

although, I knew the moment I said I didn’t know what it was, the water works would start in this thread.
 

cosmicB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Messages
257
I just wanted to add that Shantae is actually well known to retro gamers. I knew who she was because her OG game is considered a lesser known classic, because it was a late GBC release I think. The newer ones are also helping her get more popularity.
Sure, but there's no way to get hard numbers on that beyond anecdotal evidence. That means we have to default to sales, and the OG Shantae was a MASSIVE flop.

Nier is actually in a similar situation. It flopped at first, ended up getting a cult following afterwards through word of mouth, then ended up with a much more successful sequel. The difference here is the sequel soared to such unexpected heights that it saved a beloved company from declaring bankruptcy, became the most successful product of one of gaming's last true auteurs, and breached the mainstream gamer's consciousness even if only through cultural osmosis about 2B's butt.

We're talking 4 million sales. That's not much less than the Resident Evil 2 remake (which outsold the original). There's really no comparison to Shantae despite it's longevity here.
 

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,544
I was referring to his X incarnation but his Zero incarnation would cool as well. I haven't played Zero yet so I kind of have more attachment to the X version but that will probably change once I do play it.
I know, I was just saying.
Definitely give the Zero games a try, MMZ Zero has a lot more moveset potential than MMX Zero..and could rep his own series instead of Mega Man X's.
Sure, but there's no way to get hard numbers on that beyond anecdotal evidence. That means we have to default to sales, and the OG Shantae was a MASSIVE flop.

Nier is actually in a similar situation. It flopped at first, ended up getting a cult following afterwards through word of mouth, then ended up with a much more successful sequel. The difference here is the sequel soared to such unexpected heights that it saved a beloved company from declaring bankruptcy, became the most successful product of one of gaming's last true auteurs, and breached the mainstream gamer's consciousness even if only through cultural osmosis about 2B's butt.

We're talking 4 million sales. That's not much less than the Resident Evil 2 remake (which outsold the original). There's really no comparison to Shantae despite it's longevity here.
Lol yeah, poor NieR failed so hard..I only ended up getting it after I heard Kainé was a hermaphrodite..which struck a cord with me since I'm transgender.
I'm really glad that Platinum Games got to choose what Square-Enix series they got to make a new game for and that they chose NieR..had it not been for NieR Automata's success, Yoko Taro would still not have a mainstream successful game and they definitely wouldn't have have made a figure of Kainé for me to put on my shelf.
 
Last edited:

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
15,240
Location
Amala Network
NNID
Hito-shura
Switch FC
King of Chaos
Nah I actually play many various games from various companies. Never heard of the game until recent. Looks cool.

although, I knew the moment I said I didn’t know what it was, the water works would start in this thread.
I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that you are somehow simultaneously a person who evidently "plays many games from various companies" and has somehow never heard of Nier Automata despite its success until someone talked about them here on smashboards.

Out of the many many JRPGs SE has released, not many have reached the outside appeal N:A has.
 
Last edited:
Top