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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Arcadenik

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So here's a new game. Pick your 6 predicted characters, but give 4 of them an echo to make a perfect 10.
Sounds like fun!

Smash x Captain Toad Treasure Tracker
Toad
Toadette (Echo, different Final Smash with Peachette)

Smash x Golden Sun
Isaac
Felix (Echo)

Smash x Arms
Spring Man
Ribbon Girl (Echo)

Smash x Mortal Kombat
Scorpion
Sub-Zero (Echo, same normal moves, different special moves)

Smash x Pokémon Let’s Go
Meowth & Team Rocket

Smash x Donkey Kong Country
Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong
 

N3ON

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Both could be pretty huge. Just that different generations would care more than the other. Halo was a series I've been wanting to get into one of these days, especially when there's more disposable income to spend. And it's probably the single most important franchise born out of the 2000's as far as games go. Though DMC's also pretty important, it's genre is more niche than FPS games. Given what it's done for online gaming and all that.

Minecraft's something most of the younger generation enjoys, but it's also an incredibly huge game. Since so many characters kind of appeal to 80's and 90's era games(though really many of them had huge games in the 2000's and now), I wouldn't be surprised if 1 or 2 down the line were for the newer generations like Joker. But I guess Halo would still count as that, at least compared to Terry and Banjo. But I dunno how much that'll actually matter.

On a personal level, I'd probably care more about John Halo a hell of a lot more. He looks cool, and sometimes that's just enough for me to be "Aight, this guy's dope."
Well it's not really fair because I would say the same comparing Chief to almost anyone. Frankly the only characters I think outclass Chief are already in the game. He just always butts heads with Steve because of the shared ownership.

And Minecraft is a big deal, very much so, but no amount of Steve supporters will ever convince me that he's the part of the game most people care about. And for Smash, the most prized commodity is the character, especially in terms of reception, so that's the level on which I'm working.

Halo v. Minecraft probably is a matter of generation, but, without trying to diminish Steve, I don't think there's really any question character-wise between he and Master Chief.
 

Knight Dude

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Well it's not really fair because I would say the same comparing Chief to almost anyone. Frankly the only characters I think outclass Chief are already in the game. He just always butts heads with Steve because of the shared ownership.

And Minecraft is a big deal, very much so, but no amount of Steve supporters will ever convince me that he's the part of the game most people care about. And for Smash, the most prized commodity is the character, especially in terms of reception, so that's the level on which I'm working.

Halo v. Minecraft probably is a matter of generation, but, without trying to diminish Steve, I don't think there's really any question character-wise between he and Master Chief.
I can see what you mean from that perspective. Like I said, between the two I'd go for Chief, just that both would probably make a splash I guess.
 

NoOtherPersona

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So guys I finally made a moveset for Master chief using halo 4’s forge mode on the master chief collection here’s what I came up with.

:GCB:-Assault riffle: acts the same like the ones in the games. To keep the age rating down it would fire like the:ultgunner: side smash and no bullet shells will come out. Mostly it’s like a button holding move and at some point reload
:GCL::GCR::GCB:-Sword lunge: he’ll use the energy sword and thrust in front of the opponent. If it hits the fighter then the battery of the sword will decrease like the ones in the games and once your all out then you can’t replenish the used energy until your ko’d just like :ultbanjokazooie: wonder wing ability. However you can still hit the fighter with the out of battery energy sword but the damage will be tiny.
:GCU::GCB:-Jetpack: it will act like :ultrob: with a gauge on it so nothing special here.
:GCD::GCB:-Grenade: he’ll throw a grenade just like :ultsnake: and holding it down will determine how far you want it to go but if you use this move very close to your opponent then you stick a plasma grenade on them dealing lots of damage.
:disco::GCB:-Warthog Run: Chief will pull out a rocket launcher and he’ll hit how many opponents are caught in it (the max is 3) Flying them off and it will cut to a cinematic where they landed on the ground of installation 04(that’s the stage btw) an chief will come in riding on the front seat of a warthog with marines driving it and he’ll Finish of the final smash with firing the spartan laser at the opponents dealing massive damage Flying them off after it.

:GCX::GCL::GCR::GCA:-plasma riffle

:GCCL::GCCR:-plasma pistol: it will act like :ultmegaman: smash attack

:GCCD:-Gravity Hammer

and the rest I’m thinking will be a few more weapon moves and his physical attacks would act like:ultsnake:.

all right so basically I just gave a legendary piece of gaming history and Xbox’s flagship mascot the master chief a moveset.

what do you think? Doesn’t this look fun?
just as long as he looks the way he does from 1-2-3 and not 4 and 5 i'm down
 

DevaAshera

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So here's a new game. Pick your 6 predicted characters, but give 4 of them an echo to make a perfect 10.

My Fighter's Pass

Lloyd Irving(Tales)
Dante(Devil May Cry)
Sol Badguy(Guilty Gear)
Ryu Hayabusa(Ninja Gaiden)
2B(Nier)
Death(Darksiders)

Echoes

Cless Alvane(Lloyd)
Nero(Dante)
Kasumi(Ryu)
A2(2B)
A2 I could see, but Cress, Nero, and Kasumi don't really fight like Lloyd, Nero, or Dante (and I think Ayane would be better if they somehow forced it since she's actually in the Ninja Gaiden games..anyway, here are mine.

Fight_Pass_2_Predictions+Echo.png

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x Kingdom Hearts
- Sora
- Roxas (Echo)
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x Fate/stay night
- Saber/Artoria Pendragon
- Saber/Nero Claudius (Echo)
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x NieR Automata
- 2B/YoRHa No.2 Type B
- A2/YoRHa Type A No. 2 (Echo)
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x Xenoblade Chronicles 2
- Rex & Pyra
- Addam & Mythra (Echo)
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x Monster Hunter
- Monster Hunter
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x Pokémon Sword/Pokémon Shield - The Isle of Armor
- Urshifu
 
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Mushroomguy12

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So here's a new game. Pick your 6 predicted characters, but give 4 of them an echo to make a perfect 10.

My Fighter's Pass

Lloyd Irving(Tales)
Dante(Devil May Cry)
Sol Badguy(Guilty Gear)
Ryu Hayabusa(Ninja Gaiden)
2B(Nier)
Death(Darksiders)

Echoes

Cless Alvane(Lloyd)
Nero(Dante)
Kasumi(Ryu)
A2(2B)
Let's see:

Fighter's Pass

Dixie Kong
Chun-Li
Sora
Phoenix Wright
Spring Man
Arle

Echoes

Roxas (Sora)
Apollo Justice (Phoenix Wright)
Ribbon Girl (Spring Man)
Amitie (Arle)
 

N3ON

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I can see what you mean from that perspective. Like I said, between the two I'd go for Chief, just that both would probably make a splash I guess.
Unfortunately the kind of splash Steve would make is usually the kind that Nintendo would report on in some financial briefing rather than one you'd necessarily witness at the time.

If they reported on DLC like that. Which they don't.
 

TheCJBrine

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The more people talk about Mister Chef in Smash the less I become amenable to Steven J. Minecraft, lol.

Blockhead has the merits for it an all, but I just feel the shockwaves of Ol' Halo himself in Smash would resonate a lot more profoundly. Outside of, y'know, that island where they actually choose the characters. Plus personally I have many a family member and/or friend who would lose it over MC (I suspect some would pick up a Switch for it), and, frankly, I don't think I know anyone who'd have a comparable reaction to Steve.

And that's not an indictment of Steve, it's just more a reflection of the esteem in which I see Master Chief being held.

Though the anklebiters in my family do seem over Minecraft. But nowadays we usually just remain at a gaming impasse where they tell me to play Fortnite and I tell them to play Chrono Trigger.
A lot of people would freak out over Steve, probably just as many as there would be for Chief, including a lot of older people (average age for a Minecraft player is 24 and plenty of older people play it). Even if Steve isn’t a focus in Minecraft, he’s the face of the game (and is used as a character alongside Alex in a lot of official artwork and other stuffs like some official videos, and is referred to by name, and he and Alex were basically referred to as the stars of Minecraft in a news article on the website (joking about bees being the new stars)), and many love him just as well, just search up the builds and fan art people have made including him and Alex and others. Steve has also crossed over with other games. You’ve gotta be kidding if you say Steve wouldn’t be big. He isn’t just a financial pick, and would definitely make a splash with fans.

also, funny; the more people talk about Chief and throw Steve under the bus in the same post, the more I feel sour about Chief.
 
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NoOtherPersona

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Steve has his merits but he's going against the face of Xbox when i think Microsoft i don't think Minecraft first when it comes to games from them and no matter what Chief like Mario to Nintendo is the face of Xbox
 

N3ON

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A lot of people would freak out over Steve, probably just as many as there would be for Chief, including a lot of older people (average age for a Minecraft player is 24 and plenty of older people play it). Even if Steve isn’t a focus in Minecraft, he’s the face of the game and many love him just as well, just search up the builds and fan art people have made including him and Alex and others. You’ve gotta be kidding if you say Steve wouldn’t be big.

also, funny; the more people talk about Chief and throw Steve under the bus in the same post, the more I feel sour about Chief.
Where did I say Steve wouldn't be big?

Let me put it this way. If there were to be an event in which both characters were revealed, Steve would open it, and Master Chief would close it.

I'm sorry you think that's throwing Steve under the bus, even though I said he had merit and that I wasn't trying to indict him, and that it wasn't fair to compare Steve specifically to Master Chief, since I believe Master Chief exceeds any character not currently in Smash. It's not about dragging anyone, it's about lauding one that stands above the rest. It's just that non-MS characters really have no bearing on his inclusion.

But you're not going to get me to change my opinion that Steve doesn't hold a candle to Chief from a character perspective. Or feel guilty that my preference tips closer to Chief and further from Steve the more it comes up. That's my preference, it is what it is. In fact, almost all of that post you quoted was anecdotal.

But hey, if you wanna feel sour about Chief, go for it. I'm not gonna get bent out of shape.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'd easily call Steve the last huge gaming icon in the world among 3rd parties not present in Smash in any form. Chief is not on the same level.

Of course, hype is a different story. Chief sounds way more impossible, which gives him a hype advantage.

But there's a different between hype levels and who is the bigger icon. Steve is just plain more recognizable as is.

It's why I expect, without a doubt, he's going to appear in some way(Chief may or may not. I have far less confidence in him showing up as is). Both absolutely deserve it, of course. They're great gaming characters with tons of merits. Of course, I hope Chief shows up too. You got Banjo already. Just missing Microsoft's other juggernauts for the complete triangle of big guns.
 

TheYungLink

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Part of me gets the impression that a LOT of people would be far more receptive to Steve? getting in Smash if they weren't called Steve?,

instead, what if they took the Duck Hunt route and just named the character after their game?

"Minecraft builds a road to victory!"

I was nitpicky over the Duck Hunt dog and duck literally just being called their game's name, but with a Minecraft character it could help. It would invite the idea of them being kind of like Mr. Game & Watch, who isn't really a character but rather a playable amalgamation of different G&W titles. Their "personality" isn't that important, just that their moveset encompasses the breadth of what you can do in Minecraft as well as the experience of playing it.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Part of me gets the impression that a LOT of people would be far more receptive to Steve? getting in Smash if they weren't called Steve?,

instead, what if they took the Duck Hunt route and just named the character after their game?

"Minecraft builds a road to victory!"

I was nitpicky over the Duck Hunt dog and duck literally just being called their game's name, but with a Minecraft character it could help. It would invite the idea of them being kind of like Mr. Game & Watch, who isn't really a character but rather a playable amalgamation of different G&W titles. Their "personality" isn't that important, just that their moveset encompasses the breadth of what you can do in Minecraft as well as the experience of playing it.
They dropped the ? a long time ago.

His official name is outright just called Steve everywhere. Merchandise, games, etc. Calling him Minecraft doesn't work anymore. He's not a class at this point as is. It's pretty much Steve at this point. He even has alternate officially named skins you could take on, including Alex, a separate female character with the same bodyshape respectively. So you could have two core alts, and either keep the rest named based upon being male or female or give them their actual official Minecraft names(names for ones like Pigmen, etc.).

It is true that there was no name for the avatar for a while. That's when players came up with the name Steve, which led to him being called Steve? for a long time as a bit of a joke since it wasn't official. Then the name became the final thing(I don't know if this is before Microsoft bought the series or not) and so the ? no longer was applicable. I actually found out the ? thing was dropped within the last couple years, so it's not entirely common knowledge it's gone.
 
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TheYungLink

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They dropped the ? a long time ago.

His official name is outright just called Steve everywhere. Merchandise, games, etc. Calling him Minecraft doesn't work anymore. He's not a class at this point as is. It's pretty much Steve at this point. He even has alternate officially named skins you could take on, including Alex, a separate female character with the same bodyshape respectively. So you could have two core alts, and either keep the rest named based upon being male or female or give them their actual official Minecraft names(names for ones like Pigmen, etc.).

It is true that there was no name for the avatar for a while. That's when players came up with the name Steve, which led to him being called Steve? for a long time as a bit of a joke since it wasn't official. Then the name became the final thing(I don't know if this is before Microsoft bought the series or not) and so the ? no longer was applicable. I actually found out the ? thing was dropped within the last couple years, so it's not entirely common knowledge it's gone.
I see, thank you for clearing that up.
 

N3ON

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I believe Steve is a portion of Minecraft, which itself is iconic. I do not believe Steve in isolation is greater than or equal to the sum of his parts. I do not believe people get drawn to Minecraft because of Steve (the skins, sure, but not Steve), and I believe you could remove Steve entirely from Minecraft, replace him with a different skin with a different name, and the paradigm would barely shift an iota, internally or within the fanbase at large.

On that basis, I find it difficult to classify him as iconic. Though I find that term relatively hollow anyway, given it's extreme subjectivity. Recognizable, sure. The draw of Minecraft isn't Steve. The draw of Grand Theft Auto isn't the protagonist. The draw of Call of Duty isn't the character holding the gun. But all three series are iconic. Their iconography just is less character-related than world related. It varies by series.

But now I'm a little cheesed I've been bamboozled into debating what is iconic, since it's an immaterial term that changes from person to person.
Forget all that icon-talk, it's dumb. xP

My point is that Chief would cause a bigger splash than Steve. I define that by the palpable reaction that we can witness. Kids being real happy that Steve is in the game and downloading him, even if it happens in great numbers, is not a perceptible reaction we can observe. Not on a grand scale at least. The demographic Steve appeals to does not overlap with the vocal online community who record or otherwise transcribe their reactions to nearly the same extent as that of Master Chief. And that is why he'd cause a bigger splash. Due to the nature of Steve's fanbase, his reception would be tantamount more to a medium splash and a ton of tiny, isolated drops. And that segmented nature just inhibits reaching the intensity of a more cohesive unit.

Plus, regardless of the size of either series or character, Master Chief in a Nintendo game carries an entirely different cache than Steve in a Nintendo game, due to the nature and history of Halo. It's like Mario showing up on the Xbox. Steve's appearance does not hold that weight, due the platform agnostic tendencies of the series. If FF7 had been on the N64, and then Cloud had shown up in Smash, that wouldn't have generated nearly the reaction it did. If Sega had never been in the hardware game and had always just been third-party, Sonic showing up in Smash likely wouldn't have set the internet on fire the same way. Context is also important.

But at the end of the day I still believe Master Chief is a bigger character. Which certainly isn't the same as saying Halo is bigger than Minecraft.
 

Idon

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Personally, if Steve got in, my reaction would be "Welp. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner."

If Master Chief got in, it'd be "No way... There's absolutely no way this is actually happening. What? Seriously?"

I wanna assume Nintendo or Sakurai would be chasing the second kind of reaction rather than the first, but I wouldn't know what they were thinking behind those closed doors. I also would rather prefer they pick Fulgore or Jago but that's never gonnna happen
 
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TheCJBrine

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Where did I say Steve wouldn't be big?

Let me put it this way. If there were to be an event in which both characters were revealed, Steve would open it, and Master Chief would close it.

I'm sorry you think that's throwing Steve under the bus, even though I said he had merit and that I wasn't trying to indict him, and that it wasn't fair to compare Steve specifically to Master Chief, since I believe Master Chief exceeds any character not currently in Smash. It's not about dragging anyone, it's about lauding one that stands above the rest. It's just that non-MS characters really have no bearing on his inclusion.

But you're not going to get me to change my opinion that Steve doesn't hold a candle to Chief from a character perspective. Or feel guilty that my preference tips closer to Chief and further from Steve the more it comes up. That's my preference, it is what it is. In fact, almost all of that post you quoted was anecdotal.

But hey, if you wanna feel sour about Chief, go for it. I'm not gonna get bent out of shape.
I don’t feel sour about Chief because people are preferring him. I don’t even care that you prefer him. I don’t give a crap if people dislike Steve.

I feel sour because people act like Steve isn’t nearly as likely and are sometimes rude about him, with some people being rude directly to the fans or acting condescending by pushing the Mii costume idea when they wouldn’t even care about it/some other things they do. Your post was anecdotal, and I’m sorry if I took it wrong, just it felt like excuses I’ve seen before, despite a lot of stuff showing that fans do care about Steve. You pretty much said what some other people who dislike him say, that he wouldn’t be big with fans/would only be a marketing pick, and trying to speak objectively about him as a character choice and whatever else that somehow diminishes his chances.

Really, I’m sorry, as it’s clear you didn’t mean it negatively...I guess, others have said similar stuff while being negative, and I feel it’s hard not to argue when I’ve seen stuff suggesting the opposite of what people say/have said before about Steve not making splashes or not being loved and whatever else...

And Chief would certainly be big, and I’d be happy for his fans + maybe he’d be fun/cool, but some people + all the trolls and jerks and whoever certainly don’t help it feel good. Going back to the character thing, I guess he does have a more well-defined personality instead of just some silliness and activity preferences Steve and Alex have, but it’s still subjective if you ask me, especially when Steve and Alex can definitely emote and have body language as official animations in trailers have shown.

And I’m going to restate it: I don’t care if you or anyone else dislikes Steve and prefers Chief. Normally, while I would be disappointed in no Steve, for the most part, I wouldn’t even care if Chief got in first, and honestly I still wouldn’t care that much even if I really, really want Steve, but the bullcrap people have said/tried to use against Steve/other stuff over the past year + the recent trend of people hardcore pushing Chief while dunking on Steve in the same posts (some having bullcrap reasons against Steve) ain’t making it feel good at all. And Steve is iconic too, he’s used as a character, he’s the face of an iconic game alongside Alex and the Creeper, and many love him and wouldn’t want to see him replaced/removed entirely. The people who like Steve outnumber those who don’t, too, from what I’ve seen online. There is 100% no way he wouldn’t make a splash.
 
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NoOtherPersona

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i hope to god there's a direct next week because it's been so dry i want actually Nintendo game news pokemon cool smash cool i want Nintendo stuff now
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Being iconic only means you're recognized by 99% or less of the world. And you get less iconic as the number dwindles. At least in the core context of what people mean by Steve being a gaming icon. So yeah, he doesn't lack any icon status. Chief is nowhere on par in that regard(not to say he isn't up there, but Japan is a place where Halo isn't very big, and that's going to be a problem for anyone to be a big recognizable icon).

Recognizable moves are a different argument altogether and not being argued in relation to Steve. Not that you need help figuring out a moveset anyway. But most characters you don't.

There's different kind of iconic statuses, after all. It's also not actually really all that subjective. Your actual icon level entirely depends upon recognition alone. People know the character/abilities/franchise or they don't. It's actually a pretty clear thing in its entirety. The best you can do is figure out about what percentage of the world knows who it is. Which isn't that terribly hard. Your first sign of a major icon is how much they're "everywhere". Minecraft is a major franchise worldwide. Steve is one of the core merchandise pieces. That's already a sign of how big he is.

And once again, being big as a Smash announcement and being big as a character are entirely different points. Chief is seen as impossible compared to Steve. That's why Chief would get more heads turning. Take away that, and Steve already has a bigger point to him. He's a missing major gaming icon. Chief is a strong gaming icon in comparison, if you want to go with a simplistic set of terms.
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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So here's a new game. Pick your 6 predicted characters, but give 4 of them an echo to make a perfect 10.
Not exactly predicted characters but ones I either like or feel would be good in Smash

1) Nightmare (SoulCalibur)
1ε) Siegfried
2) Doomslayer
3) Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
3ε) Lilith
4) Kratos
5) Jago (Killer Instinct)
5ε) Shadow Jago
6) Prince (Prince of Persia)
6ε) Dark Prince
 
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N3ON

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I don’t feel sour about Chief because people are preferring him. I don’t even care that you prefer him. I don’t give a crap if people dislike Steve.

I feel sour because people act like Steve isn’t nearly as likely and are sometimes rude about him, with some people being rude directly to the fans or acting condescending by pushing the Mii costume idea when they wouldn’t even care about it/some other things they do. Your post was anecdotal, and I’m sorry if I took it wrong, just it felt like excuses I’ve seen before, despite a lot of stuff showing that fans do care about Steve. You pretty much said what some other people who dislike him say, that he wouldn’t be big with fans/would only be a marketing pick, and trying to speak objectively about him as a character choice and whatever else that somehow diminishes his chances.
Ok, but in none of my current posts did I mention likelihood once. Nor did I say he'd be a marketing pick or that he wouldn't be big.

I mean, again, I freely admitted that I didn't believe it fair to compare any character to Chief on the grounds of stature, so it could've just as easily been any other character, and I would've had similar things to say. It's just that Steve is the other MS one, so he's intrinsically related.

And, while I can't speak for everyone, I would imagine a lot of the times the Mii costume thing gets brought up, it's just because people see it as a possibility, given Steve fits well as a Mii costume. Not everything is going to be "he can only amount to being a Mii costume". I'd suggest restraining the reflex to rebuke what's being said until you actually parse through it. Sometimes it's pretty innocuous.

Really, I’m sorry, as it’s clear you didn’t mean it negatively...I guess, others have said similar stuff while being negative, and I feel it’s hard not to argue when I’ve seen stuff suggesting the opposite of what people say/have said before about Steve not making splashes or not being loved and whatever else...
I like to think that I'm pretty objective in my discourse. Not that everything I say is an empirical fact (people obviously regularly disagree with me) but that I really don't let my personal opinion of a character colour my argument, unless the point is just to share my opinion. Believe me, it's caused friction within character threads that I started, lol.

Remember I was one of the only people defending Steve in the Banjo thread, despite Banjo being my favourite character. Personally I don't like Steve, but my points against him aren't made out of malice.

And Chief would certainly be big, and I’d be happy for his fans + maybe he’d be fun/cool, but some people + all the trolls and jerks and whoever certainly don’t help it feel good. Going back to the character thing, I guess he does have a more well-defined personality instead of just some silliness and activity preferences Steve and Alex have, but it’s still subjective if you ask me, especially when Steve and Alex can definitely emote and have body language as official animations in trailers have shown.

And I’m going to restate it: I don’t care if you or anyone else dislikes Steve and prefers Chief. Normally, while I would be disappointed in no Steve, for the most part, I wouldn’t even care if Chief got in first, and honestly I still wouldn’t care that much even if I really, really want Steve, but the bullcrap people have said/tried to use against Steve/other stuff over the past year + the recent trend of people hardcore pushing Chief while dunking on Steve in the same posts (some having bullcrap reasons) ain’t making it feel good at all. And Steve is iconic, he’s used as a character, he’s the face of an iconic game alongside Alex and the Creeper, and many love him and wouldn’t want to see him replaced/removed entirely.
I understand that one unfavourable comparison usually leads to further negative statements, but just saying "I believe x is bigger than y" doesn't presuppose any of that. Especially when the character I'm comparing Steve to is who I believe to be #1. It's not like I'm saying Steve is beneath, idk, the twentieth biggest remaining character.

I've had characters I like **** on before too, I get that it's tiring, but just in general I don't imagine it would behoove someone to try and redress arguments that weren't actually made. That can only result in it becoming more tiring, right?

Being iconic only means you're recognized by 99% or less of the world. And you get less iconic as the number dwindles. At least in the core context of what people mean by Steve being a gaming icon. So yeah, he doesn't lack any icon status. Chief is nowhere on par in that regard(not to say he isn't up there, but Japan is a place where Halo isn't very big, and that's going to be a problem for anyone to be a big recognizable icon).

Recognizable moves are a different argument altogether and not being argued in relation to Steve. Not that you need help figuring out a moveset anyway. But most characters you don't.

There's different kind of iconic statuses, after all. It's also not actually really all that subjective. Your actual icon level entirely depends upon recognition alone. People know the character/abilities/franchise or they don't. It's actually a pretty clear thing in its entirety. The best you can do is figure out about what percentage of the world knows who it is. Which isn't that terribly hard. Your first sign of a major icon is how much they're "everywhere". Minecraft is a major franchise worldwide. Steve is one of the core merchandise pieces. That's already a sign of how big he is.

And once again, being big as a Smash announcement and being big as a character are entirely different points. Chief is seen as impossible compared to Steve. That's why Chief would get more heads turning. Take away that, and Steve already has a bigger point to him. He's a missing major gaming icon. Chief is a strong gaming icon in comparison, if you want to go with a simplistic set of games.
I'm not going to get into debating what iconic means. The actual definition leaves so much room for subjectivity that it constantly becomes a point of contention. There will be no consensus, and it's a term not worth bothering with.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Yeah, no. It's not even a debate. If you aren't recognizable, you're not an icon to begin with. That's what iconicagraphy actually means in the context. It's all a matter of level of how much you're known.

There's a point when you're hard wrong about how known a character is. Steve is more known than half of the gaming characters in the world at this point. Actually, more than most of them. Not that that means he'd be automatically chosen as playable. Because that's not what Sakurai is looking for. He chose Banjo despite being blatantly nowhere near as iconic as Steve is. Fan requests were a way more heavy factor(Steve doesn't lack them either, mind you).

Another thing is, if we're talking about requests, Steve more than likely beats Chief out there too. Reality is a ton of people were under the impression that you needed an actual Nintendo appearance before being chosen. This was never officially the case at any point(it's taken into consideration is really the closest thing). Steve already had the Nintendo factor that people think is a requirement. Besides being blatantly more iconic than Banjo, and easily more iconic than Chief too, which easily affects polling a lot(of course major gaming icons, unless specifically noted that a character can't get in, will lead a lot of votes too. Because that's the majority of gamers, casual ones. Ones who actually don't care about such things like how a moveset works as is. Or balance. Or competitive play. People want to see these major characters in Smash because they know who they are). This is a big reason why anybody can tell you that Steve is obviously a high voter. 3 out of 3 parts of the world highly recognize him, and people do care about the character getting into something like Smash, one of the biggest character games in the world(only thing bigger is M.U.G.E.N. to begin with, and that's not nearly as mainstream nor is it really the same situation either).

There's a good reason why the Steve VS Banjo wars even happened. People were pretty much going for Gaming Icon VS Nostalgia Factor overall. Sakurai's previous wording was that having a gaming legacy was what he looked for in a 3rd party. The one with the bigger legacy(Steve) was thought of being more realistic. Bayonetta is the only one among the 3rd parties who has a pretty weak one, and there's some thoughts it was more Nintendo pushing it due to the datamine showing she was in the game barely two weeks after the Ballot started, which is hardly enough time to actually taking tons of data and make a hard decision on that. I'll go into why it may not be as simple as them choosing to make her playable or not based upon the ballot. I can thank Opossum too for bringing up the "proof of concept" as well, which make it so obvious she was going to be in Smash in some way anyway.

Anyway, to go further into it, Bayonetta's data was found while she had some character data based upon Zero Suit Samus. It's possible she was going to be an AT and the ballot convinced them to go the full route. What may have happened, in this case, is the data was for an AT first. Movement data and so on. In this case, upon seeing she's actually that popular, the movement data is just modified enough to be in different files in the game. And then the rest is worked on. I don't entirely feel this theory means much, though. What I now believe is she was always going to be part of the game and the movement data was from proof of concept, which is why Sakurai and his crew could make a working model to show to Sega before licensing her. Of course, if they had said no, she wouldn't be anywhere but among scrubbed data. The actual ballot factor is they simply told us the honest truth about her placement. It just didn't correlate to the actual character being put in. So whether or not the ballot caused the inclusion is hard to say. The only thing that's fairly clear is there were plans for her to be in the game before the ballot results were in. Or at least a concept Sakurai came up with and Sega said yes to. Note that in both theories, she'd have been worked on before or after Sega said yes. It's still possible the ballot had no influence and she was actually an AT at first, but Sega and Nintendo could've spoken up and liked the idea of her playable too. No matter what happened, Sakurai clearly could envision her as working.

The last paragraph is a noteworthy point of how the ballot is not some simple thing in how it works, basically. It alone doesn't get a single character in. We know that if Sakurai can't envision the character working, they're not getting in. This even relates to the tweet he talked about for Nintendo selecting the characters. He otherwise speaks of this. This is why Pac-Man and Villager weren't in Brawl too. Couldn't figure out how to make 'em playable. There's many others who can apply for this, though how many were briefly considered also is worth noting, but may not have gotten far enough(Chrom is another example of this). I can't think of a lot of others, though. This doesn't seem to be the case with a lot of Melee considerations. Though Excite Biker would be another example. He can't figure out how to make him work very well due to requiring the bike. Heihachi too, due to not figuring out how to make his unique Tekken mechanics fit in too well(which makes a lot more sense considering the idea of command inputs or simply being a fighting game character is debunked pretty damn hard). That's all I can think of right now, though for moveset-related issues(a bit of a simple way to put it, but eh).
 

Ben Holt

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Not exactly predicted characters but ones I either like or feel would be good in Smash

1) Nightmare (SoulCalibur)
1ε) Siegfried
2) Doomslayer
3) Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
3ε) Lilith
4) Kratos
5) Jago (Killer Instinct)
5ε) Shadow Jago
6) Prince (Prince of Persia)
6ε) Dark Prince
My god. This is the most mature Pass I've ever seen. It's only missing Scorpion!
 

SirCamp

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Take this as you will, but I had no idea who Steve was until Smash speculation. And I had actually played Minecraft before then (albeit not much).

The fact that I could play a game and be unfamiliar with the character I was playing, while also recognizing master chief despite never playing Halo is... well it’s something.

Despite this I’d actually prefer Steve in Smash over Master Chief, as I think he’d be significantly more interesting as a smash character.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Take this as you will, but I had no idea who Steve was until Smash speculation. And I had actually played Minecraft before then (albeit not much).

The fact that I could play a game and be unfamiliar with the character I was playing, while also recognizing master chief despite never playing Halo is... well it’s something.

Despite this I’d actually prefer Steve in Smash over Master Chief, as I think he’d be significantly more interesting as a smash character.
I think you answered your own question. You don't recognize a character all that easily if you briefly saw the design. But there's some context lacking here. For that matter, when did you play it? When it just came out? Did you play it for a few days and that was it?

Keep in mind that Halo came out way before Minecraft(8 year difference). So your exposure is likely the cause of it. Not the general recognizability. Nowadays Steve is way more out there in merchandise, worldwide.

If you want more anecdotal factors. a lot of non-gamers can easily recognize Steve but not Chief. It's cause one is specifically on all the boxes with a specific face while the other can be confused with multiple similar character designs and doesn't have as unique of a factor. While Minecraft has a ton of skins, they are only the same bodyshape. They're actually a lot more distinct. Master Chief looks very similar to your general suit in Halo, with the biggest thing being a specific color. Another thing is only one has a literal face.
 
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Kokiden

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I remember Sakurai saying a character should be fun to play for them to be considered.

Popularity aside, do people genuinely think Steve will be fun and appealing to play as?

That's the real question here.

I've never played Minecraft but I've heard of it. I don't see the appeal of an ugly blocky character, and am underwhelmed at what his moveset could be (probably mix of G&W and Villager tbh).

That's just the perspective of someone who knows squat about the game though.

What do the fans of the game and character see from him gameplay wise?

Because there's too much talk about "iconic" but not enough about what he'd be like to play as in Smash.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I remember Sakurai saying a character should be fun to play for them to be considered.

Popularity aside, do people genuinely think Steve will be fun and appealing to play as?

That's the real question here.

I've never played Minecraft but I've heard of it. I don't see the appeal of an ugly blocky character, and am underwhelmed at what his moveset could be (probably mix of G&W and Villager tbh).

That's just the perspective of someone who knows squat about the game though.

What do the fans of the game and character see from him gameplay wise?

Because there's too much talk about "iconic" but not enough about what he'd be like to play as in Smash.
I mean, terraforming to alter the stage and building materials to upgrade your gear is an idea you can use. Having to switch between a sword to focus on damage and a pickaxe to deal less damage but gain more materials on hit like how Hero gets more MP on hit, with each material having different rates, wood is obtained every 4 percent, stone every 10, iron 20, etc. By doing this you get to decide which materials to use for blocks and upgrades as each give different properties, will you prioritze the blocks for extra stage control, the pickaxe to increase the amount of materials gained or reduce the amount of damage to farm materials or raw damage for the sword? The choices are yours and yours alone
 
D

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i hope to god there's a direct next week because it's been so dry i want actually Nintendo game news pokemon cool smash cool i want Nintendo stuff now
You're not the only one in this room starved for Smash news or anything. We have zero info and zero idea of how Sakurai is going to tackle this new pass
 

Ben Holt

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Crash Bandicoot didn't sell a $3 box of cereal. He sold a $200 video game console! In 1996 money too! Show him some RESPECT!!!
 

Kokiden

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i hope to god there's a direct next week because it's been so dry i want actually Nintendo game news pokemon cool smash cool i want Nintendo stuff now

Same.

Not just smash news but I'm really eager for Bayo 3 info. It's been years since we got actual info regarding that game.
 

Ben Holt

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You're not the only one in this room starved for Smash news or anything. We have zero info and zero idea of how Sakurai is going to tackle this new pass
MandyCan claims that Crash is locked for FP6. And if he gets a Coco echo, them I'm off to a good start.
 

NoOtherPersona

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You're not the only one in this room starved for Smash news or anything. We have zero info and zero idea of how Sakurai is going to tackle this new pass
All I wanna know is who is first don't make us wait till E3 I don't care about byleth there cool but let's be real they were received mixed at best let's move on to whoever it could be next at least let's see them
Same.

Not just smash news but I'm really eager for Bayo 3 info. It's been years since we got actual info regarding that game.
I'm still waiting for Shin Megami Tensei 5 news and now that persona 5R an P5S are coming out maybe atlus can shut up about persona and give us something different
 

Evil Trapezium

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You know I'm kind of disappointed that we don't get to fight the DLC characters before we unlock them.

It would have been so cool to start up the game and have "Warning challenger approaching" for the DLC characters, then you go into the character select screen, fight them and then after you beat them the splash screen for the DLC characters goes "[DLC character] joins the battle"

I don't know about anyone else but that would be pretty cool to me.
 
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D

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You know I'm kind of disappointed that we don't get to fight the DLC characters before we unlock them.

It would have been so cool to start up the game and have "Warning challenger approaching" for the DLC characters, then you go into the character select screen, fight them and then after you beat them the splash screen for the DLC characters goes "[DLC character] joins the battle"

I don't know about anyone else but that would be pretty cool to me.

Well, money is everrything, they say.
 

snowgolem

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You know I'm kind of disappointed that we don't get to fight the DLC characters before we unlock them.

It would have been so cool to start up the game and have "Warning challenger approaching" for the DLC characters, then you go into the character select screen, fight them and then after you beat them the splash screen for the DLC characters goes "[DLC character] joins the battle"

I don't know about anyone else but that would be pretty cool to me.
And what if you lose?
Pay another 6 bucks and try again?
 
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